Would they still have used the Andantes if Flo stayed?

[floyjoy678]

I feel like this was the route they probably would have taken regardless if Flo stayed.

As much of a fan of hers as I am, her voice was not the same by 1967. That soaring soprano she had just a year earlier was fading more and more.

It makes sense why they overdubbed the Andantes onto In And Out Of Love.

[sup_fan]

i think they would. the decision to use the As typically wasn't made, in the case of the Supremes, because M, F or C couldn't sing. it was more about availability. or if they wanted to expand the sound, make it fuller. like on CW&P and other songs.

also often times the producer would have already done a backing track and backing vocals but maybe didn't know exactly which singer or group would be assigned and doing the lead and other vocals. Maybe something was assigned originally to Kim Weston but then moved to the Supremes [[like Any Girl In Love). so why bother to redo the backing vocals?

i'm actually amazed with Whisper You Love Me DID have M and F added and that they didn't just wipe off Mary Wells' vocals and add diana.

[daviddh]

i say yes. BG didnt care about the other 2
it was about control, why did motown take off M and C vocals from Funny Girl. no reason but to keep the ladies in place or else
they may have added additional vocals to the male groups but they didnt do this or get away as much with the male group.
when you hear the Tempst or Tops sing,, they whats on the record , not Levi and the Andantees

[sup_fan]

i say yes. BG didnt care about the other 2
it was about control, why did motown take off M and C vocals from Funny Girl. no reason but to keep the ladies in place or else
they may have added additional vocals to the male groups but they didnt do this or get away as much with the male group.
when you hear the Tempst or Tops sing,, they whats on the record , not Levi and the Andantees

i think it was definitely much more frequent with the female artists. but the A's were all over the Four Tops records, although that was more i think to give them a different sound from the miracles, the temps, etc.

this is of course subjective but i think, in general, when a producer [[and this isn't specific to motown) is preparing a song for recording, vocal backup is typically done by female vocalists. of course when you're recording a male group, you have male voices. but outside of that, for almost all solo artists, it's female vocals. so motown did have a need for the As as a basic, on-call backing group. that's not to say they didn't also use the spinner, the originals and others or that they never had general backing vocals that include males. just making a generalization.

in addition, the 3 women in the As were VERY talented. according to just about everyone, those women had AMAZING ears for harmony. they could vocalize and just about come up with whatever right on the spot. they were so connected to one another that they really had an almost instinctive manner about them. and because of their talents, they were extremely fast to record. the producer could actually skip having to spend a ton of time writing out the backing parts and just take a tune/idea to the As and they'd come up with something wonderful.

also lots of tunes were not written 100% specifically for just 1 artist or 1 group. things were constantly changing and being reassigned. a group might not be able to get back to Studio A and the producer might not be approved to travel to the group. yet they need to keep on their production schedule so maybe they say "hey wanted to do this on the sups but now i'm gonna use the Temps"

[jobeterob]

Considering that the Andantes are on Run Run Run, I don’t think it made any difference if Florence left.

[khansperac]

We’re there male Andantes?

[blackguy69]

Not quite. Mary and Flo were joined by Jackie of the Andantes also she was the extra voice on Lovelight

Considering that the Andantes are on Run Run Run, I don’t think it made any difference if Florence left.

[blackguy69]

We’re there male Andantes?

I guess that would be the Originals

[captainjames]

I believe Motown used extra background singers to the Supreme records even after Diana left so I don't think with Flo staying or leaving would have mattered.

[jobeterob]

Were the Originals on any other Supremes records?

After the hits started coming, it seemed like the Andantes [[or some of them) didn’t show up on as many songs. Is that accurate?

[blackguy69]

Brenda and Billie from the undisputed truth were used on Ladder. We know clydie king was on NJ and the blackberries were used on the Touch album and of course the Andantes were all over the FJ album. And who can’t forget the Blossoms on the JW album

I believe Motown used extra background singers to the Supreme records even after Diana left so I don't think with Flo staying or leaving would have mattered.

[bradsupremes]

Brenda and Billie from the undisputed truth were used on Ladder. We know clydie king was on NJ and the blackberries were used on the Touch album and of course the Andantes were all over the FJ album. And who can’t forget the Blossoms on the JW album

I'm not positive that's the Blossoms on the Jimmy Webb album. I know both Mary and Jimmy have said it was them, but Jean and Lynda said it was Clydie King and Venetta Fields. And listening to the backgrounds, the vocals are way too heavy to the Blossoms - the Blossoms had a prettier, lighter sound.

[sup_fan]

i sort of use "the Andantes" generically to refer to just about any of the female back up singers used across the various recordings

I've wondered if all the way back to He's 17 if they were using additional voices. the backups there sound SO different from pretty much anything else on the lp or that the group recorded at that time. i wouldn't be surprised is some or all of the Rayber voices were being used since Ranoma produced this song

when DMF originally recorded the CW&P material, it was just the 3 of them. the A's were added, i believe, in 64 prior to the record's release. so i think Lovelight and Run were the first [[besides Hes 17) to be released with added voices. any others? i think This Is It also has some added vocals, like the male voice.

when Diana left, lots of the JMC material had session singers. pretty much anything Clay McMurray produced with them did [[Then we can try it again, is there a place, the day will come, i got hurt and more). plus lots of the other producers were using them too.

i've tried to decipher on the Floy Joy album what is JMC and what is the A's. some is pretty obvious but some less so. i think you can sort of pick up on it based on the stereo channel the voices are on.

once Scherrie joined, the added vocalists stopped. except for the male voices like on Mr Boogie and Sweet Dream Machine. listen to Sha La and Give Out. both have lots of layered vocals and that's ALL MSC. they sound spectacular.

[sup_fan]

I'm not positive that's the Blossoms on the Jimmy Webb album. I know both Mary and Jimmy have said it was them, but Jean and Lynda said it was Clydie King and Venetta Fields. And listening to the backgrounds, the vocals are way too heavy to the Blossoms - the Blossoms had a prettier, lighter sound.

and the added vocalists, to my understanding, weren't on a separate track. like how the As and prior singers typically were. the Blossoms or whomever on JW were right there with JML in the studio. that's why we can't have a new mix of the album with only JML, unless there are other recordings.

heck given the massiveness of the sound, maybe its JML plus the Blossoms PLUS Clydie and Venetta. frankly i think the sound is more than just 5 voices if you take the 3 Blossoms plus L and M.

[blackguy69]

Clydie and venetta were on Jean’s solo album along with Lynda

I'm not positive that's the Blossoms on the Jimmy Webb album. I know both Mary and Jimmy have said it was them, but Jean and Lynda said it was Clydie King and Venetta Fields. And listening to the backgrounds, the vocals are way too heavy to the Blossoms - the Blossoms had a prettier, lighter sound.

[captainjames]

So there you have it as far as background singers still singing in the background with or without the Supremes. Again, I don't think whether Flo staying or leaving would have changed that.

[blackguy69]

True we can agree on that

So there you have it as far as background singers still singing in the background with or without the Supremes. Again, I don't think whether Flo staying or leaving would have changed that.

[jobeterob]

It's interesting for the real fans to know who exactly is singing on the songs, especially the hits.

But when they were recorded, I don't think much attention was paid to WHO was on the songs; attention was paid to "the sound" and they did what they had to in order to achieve the sound.

I recall someone, maybe it was Smokey, saying that what really mattered was the lead singer and of course, there's much truth to that.

As the years went by and the dissension and acrimony developed and a few artists became much more successful than others, I feel a lot more importance was placed on who sang in the background than it really warranted; it kind of became "well he/she doesn't even sing on the song". And often it wasn't accepted by everyone that there were Andantes and Originals and other people on the songs.

Did it really matter? To me it wasn't the biggest deal, just interesting.

[motony]

Motown was a business PLUS they controlled their artists' total career. The big money to be made for artists is on the road [[bookings).They kept the artists on the road as much as possible....it made financial sense to only fly back the lead singer for scheduled recording session. Women were more manipulated in the 60's. The Temptations put their foot down about others being on their recordings.

[blackguy69]

You notice minus the Four Tops, the guy groups and Gladys let it be known they didn’t want the Andantes used in their recordings

[sup_fan]

but i thought the originals [[or spinners or one of the male groups) occasionally did some Temps records. or maybe it was the Tops.

i wonder what the song output for the Supremes was vs other groups. how many tunes they recorded in a given month during the 60s. i realize there were periods where the group was heavily touring. But i wonder if the hectic schedule for the Sups and how it frankly was just easier to use the As opened that up even more for other groups. did MRATV or the Ms have anywhere near the number of recording sessions the Sups did?

[SatansBlues]

You notice minus the Four Tops, the guy groups and Gladys let it be known they didn’t want the Andantes used in their recordings

The Andantes are still on a handful of Temptation records.

[SatansBlues]

Motown was a business PLUS they controlled their artists' total career. The big money to be made for artists is on the road [[bookings).They kept the artists on the road as much as possible....it made financial sense to only fly back the lead singer for scheduled recording session. Women were more manipulated in the 60's. The Temptations put their foot down about others being on their recordings.

I don't think that the women were more manipulated in the 60s-70s, they just simply had less power. I recall seeing a magazine ad in the early 80's for Virginia Slim cigarettes with the caption "Not so long ago women only had one voice in society." and with the caption was a still shot picture of Martha & The Vandellas on a tv show singing Dancing In The Street. Followed by "You've/We've come a long ways baby."

[bradsupremes]

and the added vocalists, to my understanding, weren't on a separate track. like how the As and prior singers typically were. the Blossoms or whomever on JW were right there with JML in the studio. that's why we can't have a new mix of the album with only JML, unless there are other recordings.

heck given the massiveness of the sound, maybe its JML plus the Blossoms PLUS Clydie and Venetta. frankly i think the sound is more than just 5 voices if you take the 3 Blossoms plus L and M.

Yes, they were all together in the studio recording together. I believe they doubled tracked the background vocals - same singers but they recorded backgrounds twice and used both sets on the record.

I know it was mentioned on John Perrone's old Nightflight shows, but Mary wrote a note to Randy Taraborrelli in March 1972 about how they completed two albums [[one with Smokey and one with Jimmy Webb) and then that they just found a replacement for Cindy which indicated that Cindy may have recorded the Jimmy Webb album. And yet, when I asked Jimmy if he remembered her being there, he said "I don't recall Cindy being part of the sessions." The sessions did begin in March so it's quite possible she was there and then they dubbed over those vocals later when Lynda joined.

I've listened dozens of times to the album to see if I can make out Darlene, Jean, or Fanita in the mix. I've been able to hear Jean, Mary, Lynda at some point throughout the album on backgrounds, but I haven't been able to hear any of the Blossoms' voices. On "Tossin' And Turnin'," there's a voice in the background that isn't any of the Blossoms or JML...

[blackguy69]

I think someone was misunderstood. FJ was finished at the end of February. JW was started sometime late in March. But it could be possible that Cindy may have layer some vocals on the JW album but I doubt it.

Yes, they were all together in the studio recording together. I believe they doubled tracked the background vocals - same singers but they recorded backgrounds twice and used both sets on the record.

I know it was mentioned on John Perrone's old Nightflight shows, but Mary wrote a note to Randy Taraborrelli in March 1972 about how they completed two albums [[one with Smokey and one with Jimmy Webb) and then that they just found a replacement for Cindy which indicated that Cindy may have recorded the Jimmy Webb album. And yet, when I asked Jimmy if he remembered her being there, he said "I don't recall Cindy being part of the sessions." The sessions did begin in March so it's quite possible she was there and then they dubbed over those vocals later when Lynda joined.

I've listened dozens of times to the album to see if I can make out Darlene, Jean, or Fanita in the mix. I've been able to hear Jean, Mary, Lynda at some point throughout the album on backgrounds, but I haven't been able to hear any of the Blossoms' voices. On "Tossin' And Turnin'," there's a voice in the background that isn't any of the Blossoms or JML...

[captainjames]

I found these two books informative on who was in the background on certain sesions.

[Boogiedown]

Would they still have used the Andantes if Flo stayed?

No 'cause she and Mary would've been waiting at the studio's exit to kick some ass!

[after you]

How can any of them compete with the voice of Diana Ross there’s no way it was DiAna Ross and the Andandtes from the start / supremes

[antceleb12]

I remember reading a story a long time ago - and I don’t know how much of this is true - that the Andantes were originally dubbed in on “The Happening,” but Flo gave Berry a hard time about it and he relented. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility for Flo to have been a possible factor in not using the Andantes AS much, since she was always the most vocal of the three about issues like this.

[antceleb12]

As much of a fan of hers as I am, her voice was not the same by 1967. That soaring soprano she had just a year earlier was fading more and more.

I don’t buy the rumor that Flo’s voice was going. She was only 23-24 at this time, and even with her increased drinking and the occasional smoke, she certainly wasn’t doing enough of it to cause permanent damage that early. The voice is pretty resilient. We also don’t have enough solid material from that time period for even a professional to make an accurate judgment. I would say that her voice was maturing and would venture to say that the type of material they were singing may have also influenced her singing style, as well. However, what I feel is the more likely case is that Florence was probably not putting in the same effort anymore, which may account for the perceived change in her voice.

[jobucats]

Yes, producers would have used the Andantes even more had Florence stayed. My opinion is that Florence's loud and piercing sound was more of a liability in the direction where the sound of the Supremes, with Diana as definitely the focal point, was going. Die-hard Flo fans will continue to shout out that she was the 'best singer' of the three ladies; however singing loud with a mediocre voice which might might be found in any choir does not equate with being the most 'profitable' and 'radio friendly' voice. Listening to the DMF recordings, one can often tell that Florence's voice/mike placement was carefully plotted out to keep her from overwhelming the background vocals. Just listen to "Where Did Our Love Go?"....her voice is barely audible at all; some versions sound as though the song was a Diana/Mary duet.
As others have stated, it was more cost and time effective to use background singers such as the Andantes AND the Andantes added that super polished sound of the Supremes when they were used....and yes, they were used a lot before Florence left.

[marybrewster]

Does anyone know where Diana, Mary, and Cindy [[and Berry) were living in 1968 and 1969?

I think it's a safe bet to say that Diana and Berry weren't far from each other, whether it be Detroit or California.

Were the Suprenes [[or DRATS) still recording in Detroit in 1968? 1969?

I'd bet my money it was all logistics. Diana and Berry are in Detriot, The Andantes are in Detroit, Mary and Cindy are in LA.....why bother?

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I think a factor which comes into play around the time of 'In And Out of Love' through to 'Love Child' was that Mary was very busy teaching Cindy the dance moves.

[bradsupremes]

Does anyone know where Diana, Mary, and Cindy [[and Berry) were living in 1968 and 1969?

I think it's a safe bet to say that Diana and Berry weren't far from each other, whether it be Detroit or California.

Were the Suprenes [[or DRATS) still recording in Detroit in 1968? 1969?

I'd bet my money it was all logistics. Diana and Berry are in Detriot, The Andantes are in Detroit, Mary and Cindy are in LA.....why bother?

Mary was the first one to move out to LA. She moved out there sometime in 1968, but she kept her house in Detroit. Cindy quickly followed and got her apartment. By the end of the Farewell engagement, I believe all three ladies were in Los Angeles.

Hitsville was the primary recording studio for instrumental and vocals up to 1971/1972. The girls were still heading to Detroit to record although they would add vocals in New York, Chicago or Los Angeles depending if they were doing an engagement, etc.

[floyjoy678]

To each their own, I loved the songs where you could hear Flo's "loud and piercing" sound in the background.

A lot of the early songs that did have the Andantes, I was under the impression when it was relayed to me via Louvain that was it was one or two of them helping out Mary and Florence like on "Lovelight" and "Stop!". I believe this was also the case for the "Mother Dear" version recorded in 1966.

[sup_fan]

To each their own, I loved the songs where you could hear Flo's "loud and piercing" sound in the background.

A lot of the early songs that did have the Andantes, I was under the impression when it was relayed to me via Louvain that was it was one or two of them helping out Mary and Florence like on "Lovelight" and "Stop!". I believe this was also the case for the "Mother Dear" version recorded in 1966.

it really is a pleasure hearing the 3 girls in recordings and while M and F mostly only are in backgrounds there are lots of tracks where they still shine. much of More Hits is so enjoyable BECAUSE it's mostly just the 3 of them and HDH were still taking time to develop compelling backing vocals and 3 part harmonies. same with the WDOLG album

yes flo had a large voice and sure it could be overwhelming. but listen to her lead lines on Breathtaking and then listen to her lead on the end of Long Gone Lover. that's the same person singing 2 different ways. on Breathtaking she's beautifully controlled, soft, sensual. on Long Gone she's letting it rip and that booming Ballard voice is on full display. and while i sometimes find faults with her leads on Silent and O Holy, there were sections of both that are spectacular. on one of the Silent versions, at the end when she sings "Christ the savoir... is born" she so perfectly and delicately sings "christ" and then goes to town on "born".

as many others have said, had M and F had more opportunities to sing lead in the studio, they could have experimented more with their voices and developed them. i'd love to hear more of the soft beautiful Flo voice from Breathtaking

[reese]

i'd love to hear more of the soft beautiful Flo voice from Breathtaking

When I bought the ANTHOLOGY in 1974, it was the first time that I really heard Flo's voice. Her reading of her line in A BREATH TAKING GUY is really elegant, sort of the same quality she lends to the end of LONG GONE LOVER.

[RanRan79]

I don’t buy the rumor that Flo’s voice was going. She was only 23-24 at this time, and even with her increased drinking and the occasional smoke, she certainly wasn’t doing enough of it to cause permanent damage that early. The voice is pretty resilient. We also don’t have enough solid material from that time period for even a professional to make an accurate judgment. I would say that her voice was maturing and would venture to say that the type of material they were singing may have also influenced her singing style, as well. However, what I feel is the more likely case is that Florence was probably not putting in the same effort anymore, which may account for the perceived change in her voice.

Flo's voice definitely underwent some changes. Whether it was "damage" or not, I guess at this point no one knows. But she, like the other Supremes, had apparently been smoking for years, so it may have very likely had some effect. During 66/67 she was also under a ton of stress, naturally and unnaturally job related, and stress does affect the voice. During her famous Supremes years Flo was in her early 20s, a time when female voices are still changing, so she may have undergone a natural change that might also have been compounded by the previous factors. Not to mention my belief that Florence wasn't a natural soprano and may have done some damage by singing so often in the upper register of her voice.

I don't buy that Flo was phoning it in during this time. There are definitely tracks from the A Go Go sessions on up that sometimes sound like both Flo and Mary are phoning it in, but since it was both of them, I suspect that was more a producer issue. Flo and Mary are tearing up "Hangin On", "Love Is Here", many of those Rodgers and Hart cuts, among others, and it's clear that Florence's voice doesn't sound like it did on "Stranger In Paradise" or "Come See About Me". She still sounds great, like on "Manhattan", "Bewitched", "It's Going All the Way", but it's not as high as it once was, which of course doesn't make it any less good, just different. IMO the boom of her voice was still there, the height had just decreased, if that makes any sense.

[RanRan79]

To each their own, I loved the songs where you could hear Flo's "loud and piercing" sound in the background.

Me too, but what do I know? I think that singing loud with a mediocre voice a great singer makes, or so I've been told.

[lucky2012]

Me too, but what do I know? I think that singing loud with a mediocre voice a great singer makes, or so I've been told.

I've always loved Flo's background singing on Come See About Me as much as Mary's "Baby, Baby"s on Where Did Our Love Go. They are why those are two of my favorite Supremes recordings ever. [Also love Flo's prominent background on Marvin's You're A Wonderful One!] Andantes definitely not needed on those!

[I do love the Andantes otherwise, though. e.g. Any Girl In Love, Baby Doll, Merry Christmas].

[RanRan79]

I've always loved Flo's background singing on Come See About Me as much as Mary's "Baby, Baby"s on Where Did Our Love Go. They are why those are two of my favorite Supremes recordings ever. [Also love Flo's prominent background on Marvin's You're A Wonderful One!] Andantes definitely not needed on those!

[I do love the Andantes otherwise, though. e.g. Any Girl In Love, Baby Doll, Merry Christmas].

I love the Andantes too. "Any Girl In Love" is a favorite of mine.

Florence, like Mary, was integral to the sound of a lot of those records. Can you imagine "Where Did Our Love Go" without Mary or "Come See About Me" without Florence? There was personality and charm that came with the original trio that was often missing when one or more of them were replaced.

[captainjames]

It does not matter and I never understood what make it sweeter or to make it fuller but the Andantes were brought in to do it. I could always tell what song Mary was on but Flo was a little difficult to figure out at times.

[lakeside]

and the added vocalists, to my understanding, weren't on a separate track. like how the As and prior singers typically were. the Blossoms or whomever on JW were right there with JML in the studio. that's why we can't have a new mix of the album with only JML, unless there are other recordings.

.

heck given the massiveness of the sound, maybe its JML plus the Blossoms PLUS Clydie and Venetta. frankly i think the sound is more than just 5 voices if you take the 3 Blossoms plus L and M.

I always said it the Morman Tabernacle Choir.

[TheMotownManiac]

i say yes. BG didnt care about the other 2
it was about control, why did motown take off M and C vocals from Funny Girl. no reason but to keep the ladies in place or else
they may have added additional vocals to the male groups but they didnt do this or get away as much with the male group.
when you hear the Tempst or Tops sing,, they whats on the record , not Levi and the Andantees

I agree that they used other voices a lot more on ladies vocals, but
I don’t understand what you mean by to keep the ladies in place or else.

[TheMotownManiac]

Yes, they were all together in the studio recording together. I believe they doubled tracked the background vocals - same singers but they recorded backgrounds twice and used both sets on the record.

I know it was mentioned on John Perrone's old Nightflight shows, but Mary wrote a note to Randy Taraborrelli in March 1972 about how they completed two albums [[one with Smokey and one with Jimmy Webb) and then that they just found a replacement for Cindy which indicated that Cindy may have recorded the Jimmy Webb album. And yet, when I asked Jimmy if he remembered her being there, he said "I don't recall Cindy being part of the sessions." The sessions did begin in March so it's quite possible she was there and then they dubbed over those vocals later when Lynda joined.

I've listened dozens of times to the album to see if I can make out Darlene, Jean, or Fanita in the mix. I've been able to hear Jean, Mary, Lynda at some point throughout the album on backgrounds, but I haven't been able to hear any of the Blossoms' voices. On "Tossin' And Turnin'," there's a voice in the background that isn't any of the Blossoms or JML...

lynda was with the Supremes in March, but she wasn’t performing with them yet. But I believe she has spoken about recording the Jimmy Webb sessions.

[TheMotownManiac]

Would they still have used the Andantes if Flo stayed?

No 'cause she and Mary would've been waiting at the studio's exit to kick some ass!

Mary and Florence often did not know when diana ross was recording, So there would’ve been no way for them to have anything to say about it until after the fact. And they certainly rolled over and accepted not being on the Christmas album. I understand he didn’t want to work with them but, I think he was cutting off his nose to spite his face because they don’t sound anywhere near as good as flo and Mary would have. I can see if he needed a fuller sound, otherwise, I’m Olfa gives the record the best sound, and I don’t care who the personnel is. Of course, I understand they wanna be on every record, but you’re making history, go with the program and enjoy the ride. There are millions of people who would trade places with you.

[sup_fan]

us die-hard fans add in a LOT more of the emotional element to history than probably was there to begin with.

MFD were WORKING. this was a job, not a lovely hobby any more. back in the primette era, they were working and struggling and hoping and dreaming. in the sups era, it was about work. it wasn't about artistic integrity, creating a masterpiece for the ages. it was about money. get the hits so you sell lots of records. do the appearances and all to build up the public reputation. do the tv gigs and concept albums to open the doors for the Copa and big money. again all of this was to make money and make more money than just the chitlins circuit.

so when it comes to cranking out records and content to feed this machine, it's about the end result. IMO there are other people on He's 17, and not just DMFB. then on Lovelight and Run. the whole environment at motown was about 'get it done, any way possible' so there wasn't a lot of sentimentality. so the idea of only have DMF sing each and every song every released by motown just wasn't a reality.

and the girls knew this from a very early stage

[Boogiedown]

even if its just a job , you still do the work....you don't have somebody else do it for you and then take credit for it.

I prefer to envision Flo, with Mary not far behind, chasing their substitutes down the alley high heels waving, while calling them every name in the book..

[sup_fan]

lol Flo jumping on some rachet background singer and beating the tar out of her lol

i do think the overall issue of 'diana's voice is needed, yours isn't' certainly took a toll on Flo and Mary, especially Flo. probably added greatly to the disenfranchisement she supposedly felt about the whole Supremes thing.

it's one thing if a song like Any Girl In Love gets a quick Diana lead vocal and then the track is dropped onto the Symphony lp. or when the As are mixed into a DMF to layer into the vocals. it's another thing when whole projects like Christmas and Broadway2Hollywood are done without M or F.

on the flip side though, Flo also opened the door wider for other vocalists to be on sups records. Flo missed the YCHL session in July 66, along with a lot of the tunes that found their way onto A Go Go, HDH and reflections. and in June 65 she missed the 'Tribute to the Girls" sessions for Sandman, Sincerely. Flo isn't on those recordings. Also she's supposedly not on Reflections. It makes for a hard argument of not using other singers when you don't show up for recording sessions

[Boogiedown]

sup_fan: lol Flo jumping on some rachet background singer and beating the tar out of her lol

hee hoo! "and don't come back!!!"


If Flo was mucking up and ruining recording opportunities, why was Mary also thrown out with the bath water ....

and if that were so , it sounds to me like Mary's biggest mistake was building an alliance with Flo instead of Diana.