The Story Behind the Song: WDOLG

[marybrewster]

Haven't seen this clip before; Lamont talks about WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DG5CjW...Paq1WE8Iz5qR9w

[sup_fan]

this is a nice clip - haven't seen this one exactly before. Brian Holland also talks about Diana have some 'tude in the studio with this song and how it translated perfectly to the sound

i've always wondered if the whole "marvelettes putting up a fist fight and hating WDOLG and yelling out the window to Mary saying Hey Girl we thought that was crap - don't let them trick you" situation is one that might have grown as a tall tale over the years.

given the tunes ALL of the artists recorded in those days, there were PLENTY of crap songs that not only were recorded but got on an album! lol a 19 year old girl probably didn't have enough clout with the men at motown to have this dynamic of an opinion on a tune.

plus this was 60 years ago and so remembering every detail perfectly gets hard. hell i couldn't necessarily recite every detail from some work event from last week perfectly lol

here's MY theory

the Ms were rehearsing tunes to record and they were getting close to wrapping up their time in the studio rehearsal room. there were a few more tunes to try and get to but time probably only allowed one or two more. so you have Norman playing Too Many Fish for them and Brian trying to entice them with WDOLG. there's a lot more to Fish than Where, especially in an unfinished stage. so the girls said - hey let's go with norman

Lamont is right that they eventually needed to get SOMEONE to record this in order to push the costs to the artist. so they went to the Sups. but again, the WDOLG track is very sparse, simple. nothing like Lovelight or Standing at the Crossroads of Love or something. the girls probably did think it wasn't much.

Gladys could have certainly told them "oh we passed that one up in our rehearsal time." maybe to be catty lol hell they were teenage girls lol.

but then WDOLG was released and there's no more speculation cuz we all know what happened

[blackguy69]

[bradsupremes]

this is a nice clip - haven't seen this one exactly before. Brian Holland also talks about Diana have some 'tude in the studio with this song and how it translated perfectly to the sound

i've always wondered if the whole "marvelettes putting up a fist fight and hating WDOLG and yelling out the window to Mary saying Hey Girl we thought that was crap - don't let them trick you" situation is one that might have grown as a tall tale over the years.

given the tunes ALL of the artists recorded in those days, there were PLENTY of crap songs that not only were recorded but got on an album! lol a 19 year old girl probably didn't have enough clout with the men at motown to have this dynamic of an opinion on a tune.

plus this was 60 years ago and so remembering every detail perfectly gets hard. hell i couldn't necessarily recite every detail from some work event from last week perfectly lol

here's MY theory

the Ms were rehearsing tunes to record and they were getting close to wrapping up their time in the studio rehearsal room. there were a few more tunes to try and get to but time probably only allowed one or two more. so you have Norman playing Too Many Fish for them and Brian trying to entice them with WDOLG. there's a lot more to Fish than Where, especially in an unfinished stage. so the girls said - hey let's go with norman

Lamont is right that they eventually needed to get SOMEONE to record this in order to push the costs to the artist. so they went to the Sups. but again, the WDOLG track is very sparse, simple. nothing like Lovelight or Standing at the Crossroads of Love or something. the girls probably did think it wasn't much.

Gladys could have certainly told them "oh we passed that one up in our rehearsal time." maybe to be catty lol hell they were teenage girls lol.

but then WDOLG was released and there's no more speculation cuz we all know what happened

I was always under the assumption that the artists really didn't have a say over what they were to sing. It was basically producer's call. There are plenty of instances where the artists were basically forced to sing material they didn't want to do or like. Like you said, there were plenty of crappy songs cut in those early years that they sang so it's hard to believe they heard this and said "No way! Pass!" Also this is around the time the Marvelettes were struggling on the charts - were they really in position to reject songs when they hadn't had a top 40 hit since "Beachwood 4-5789" in 1962? HDH's ascension was also taking place with their chart successes with the Miracles, Marvin, Vandellas so they really had the power in this game. I believe the Marvelettes were probably originally in mind for this track and but then HDH decided it was better for the Sups - maybe that's where the Sups heard that they weren't the first choice for the song and felt they got the throwaway tracks.

Plus the thing Gladys used to tell was that they picked "Too Many Fish In The Sea" over "Where Did Our Love Go." This couldn't have happened as the track for "Fish" wasn't recorded until September 1964 and "WDOLG" was cut back in April. I've even heard one of the Velvelettes say they passed on "WDOLG" so this whole tale is a bit messy to figure out.

What we do know - Eddie Holland wanted Mary to sing lead, but was reminded Berry wants Diana on lead. The girls were clearly not happy with song. Mary has said they wanted something like "Heat Wave" and "Lovelight" and this was such light fare that none of them were impressed. Lamont had more intricate backgrounds for Mary and Flo, but those were scrapped as the girls were clearly not in the mood to learn them so he tells them "Just sing 'baby baby.'" We also know Diana isn't impressed with the song and her unhappiness with it gives it the edge as Lamont describes in the video. Also vocals and the track were cut on the same day - April 8 - so unless there is an earlier unused track of the song - not sure how the Marvelettes could have heard it and passed if the track and Supremes vocals were done on the same day.

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t think people were forced to record anything, but were encouraged to. The acts that did not have a hit yet, we’re going to try anything but the problem with that is they got charged for everything. Brenda Holloway refused to record enough for a second album because she didn’t want to get saddled with the debt. And producers were ruthless when it came down to getting sessions, charged to anyone. Which is why the Supremes got stuck with songs that were clearly not in Rosses key like over the rainbow. Berry Gordy had to convince Gladys to record if I were your woman.

Bryan Holland said he never had any intention of anyone but ross to do the lead on where did our love go. After that, he wrote the song specifically for her. In one interview, he said she was the perfect human being and, “a baby love. “ although he never said that he wrote specifically for Levi, that I read anyway, I am sure he did. He was very very smitten with Levi‘s Voice and said “riding hits for Diane and Levi was a full-time job. “

It’s possible, Bryan didn’t know that Lamont offered it to the Marvelettes. Hey

[Ollie9]

Had Brian been out voted the course of musical history might have been drastically altered. I think Mary would have sounded terrific leading “WDOLG”, something Eddie at least appeared more than aware of.

[bradsupremes]

So we have three of the songwriters saying different things about the same song...

Brian Holland: WDOLG was written and intended for the Supremes and Diana was always going to sing lead on it.

Eddie Holland: WDOLG was originally intended for Mary to sing lead on, but then he is reminded that Berry wants Diana on all leads.

Lamont Dozier: WDOLG was written and intended for the Marvelettes and cut in Gladys' key. The Marvelettes didn't like it so HDH decided to give it to the Supremes.

[TheMotownManiac]

Had Brian been out voted the course of musical history might have been drastically altered. I think Mary would have sounded terrific leading “WDOLG”, something Eddie at least appeared more than aware of.

No one has ever said it was written or intended for Mary. She can sound doll and lifeless on a track like this. I don’t think music history changed at all because if they had cut it with Mary, once they listen to the playback, they would’ve gone ahead and cut it with diana anyway. This was not the kind of song Mary would sound good on. At all. kind of like her read on come and get these memories. Mary was a ballad singer, nothing like this. And the only reason Eddie suggested Mary was because it was not in the key Diana usually sang in. Hadn’t been a ballad like oh baby don’t go where she sounds like $1 billion that would be different. It would have never gotten past quality control with Mary on the lead.

[Ollie9]

No one has ever said it was written or intended for Mary. She can sound doll and lifeless on a track like this. I don’t think music history changed at all because if they had cut it with Mary, once they listen to the playback, they would’ve gone ahead and cut it with diana anyway. This was not the kind of song Mary would sound good on. At all. kind of like her read on come and get these memories. Mary was a ballad singer, nothing like this. And the only reason Eddie suggested Mary was because it was not in the key Diana usually sang in. Hadn’t been a ballad like oh baby don’t go where she sounds like $1 billion that would be different. It would have never gotten past quality control with Mary on the lead.

The fact being, had Eddie Holland had his way the song would have featured Mary on lead. If Mary can sound dull and lifeless, Diana could sound shrill and grating.
Being so familiar with hearing Diana’s voice on the song it’s hard to imagine anyone else singing it. As it stands, Marys voice is featured loud and clear on “WDOLG” contributing much to the feel, vibe and success of the song. With this in mind, i really wouldn’t be so readily dismissive in thinking her lead would have been instantly rejected.

[BayouMotownMan]

Well the studio lore continues 60 years on. But having interviewed HDH over 20 yrs ago and two of the Marvelettes before that, I think it safe to say that the song was:

1. Intended for the Marvelettes. Eddie Holland wanted a soft voice and felt Wanda, not Gladys, could do the song justice. Eddie seemed to be worked up over it that the song was a big hit not just an lp cut or whatever.

2. In a meeting with Eddie Holland, the Marvelettes were listening to demo tapes and liked Too Many Fish which Eddie had co-written with Norman Whitfield. The group was sold on that one but Eddie said he felt this WDOLG had hit potential and played it. Unanimously the group did not like that one so it stayed in the heap.

3. Eddie continued to be convinced that WDOLG had hit potential. They were trying to find another hit on the Supremes and he now felt that Mary Wilson would fit the song. Mary, however, had already heard that the song was being laughed at around the company while Eddie continued to work on it and flesh it out so yes she was aware of it. But Mary did NOT turn it down, the Supremes were not in a position to do that. While going over the arrangement with Lamont and Brian, they overruled Eddie's decision to have Mary on lead saying Gordy made it clear that Diana Ross was that group's lead singer.

4. Upon hearing it Diana Ross hated it and was joined by Mary and Flo. They kept saying they wanted something more challenging, like the songs that HDH were giving to the Vandellas and Marvin Gaye. But, again, they had to do the session. In the recording studio, Ross rolled her eyes with a "let's just do this crap and move on" attitude apparently making faces while recording it in that lower key. At one point, engineer Lawrence Horn motioned to Eddie that he was going to stop the session so Eddie could talk to Ross, but Eddie was loving what he heard and indicated to continue. Upon completion, Ross took off her headseats and yelled up to Eddie, "is this what you want?" in a voice that basically said she was finished with it. He responded, "Yes, perfect." The ladies went on to another session figuring the song would never be issued and were angry to have to pay for the session.

5. Shortly after, this they were called into Berry Gordy's office. Gordy felt Where Did Our Love Go would be Top 20 like Lovelight, and his sister Esther convinced Dick Clark to take the Supremes on the road with his show that featured Brenda Holloway, hot with Every Little Bit Hurts. Clark only wanted Holloway but Esther gave him a deal he couldn't refuse, basically taking the Supremes for free paying them an amateurish salary that included Ross's mother as the chaperone. The ladies were rather shocked that Motown got them on this tour and that they would be promoting their new single, WDOLG. But they needed the work so they did as they were told, If nothing else they would be introduced to a much bigger audience than previously.

6. As they toured the country WDOLG took off with Motown's promotion department going into overdrive to promote the record. While this was happening, Mary Wells, Gordy's biggest star, was jumping ship to a bigger label after Gordy had released My Guy, her biggest hit ever. Gordy wanted to prove to Wells that these new girls were capable of replacing her, and in fact, did so.

7. When the tour ended the Supremes were flown home and whisked in the studio for the much anticipated follow up. Mary Wilson approached Esther about their pay, assuming with the huge sales WDOLG did that the ladies would have nice royalties. She was stunned when Esther told her the company took a loss to get them on that tour and one hit record had to be used to go back and pay for all the dozens of songs, some released, some not, that had the Supremes swimming in red.

[jobucats]

The fact being, had Eddie Holland had his way the song would have featured Mary on lead. If Mary can sound dull and lifeless, Diana could sound shrill and grating.
Being so familiar with hearing Diana’s voice on the song it’s hard to imagine anyone else singing it. As it stands, Marys voice is featured loud and clear on “WDOLG” contributing much to the feel, vibe and success of the song. With this in mind, i really wouldn’t be so readily dismissive in thinking her lead would have been instantly rejected.

I tend to believe that Mary on lead on "Where Did Our Love Go" might have worked; however, part of the magic of that song for me is Mary's background vocal...it's hard to imagine anything else. Practically every mix I've heard of WDOLG barely has Florence's voice audible at all. In fact, there are some mixes where it only sounds like Mary dueting with Diana.

[sup_fan]

could Mary have sung WDOLG - certainly. would it have sounded nice - certainly. would it have been a big hit - definitely not.

WDOLG works because it's the perfect combination of the exact elements.

the sparse instrumental track, the hypnotically mechanical backing vocals, the subtle inflections Diana adds.

if you listen to Sunset or Our Day Will Come, Mary would often sing a lead very straight. she has a rich sound but she doesn't really vary her tone much. this approach is absolutely perfect for the WDOLG backing vocals which are very important. there's a vocal ping pong between the lead and backing parts. the repetitive nature of the backing vocals works perfectly with this mechanical approach. whereas the lead needs to work the melody line more.

[BayouMotownMan]

I'll go a step further and say it was the mono single mix of WDOLG that made it a hit, with the 4/4 thunderclaps augmented by 2/4 claps on top of it and the bass brought forward.

The stereo mix is so watered down that it was hard for me understand why that song was so huge. The 2/4 claps are mysteriously omitted and the bass is more subtle which makes the song a bit boring to my ears.

Hearing it live is outright boring. Bares no resemblance to the hit single.

[Ollie9]

I'll go a step further and say it was the mono single mix of WDOLG that made it a hit, with the 4/4 thunderclaps augmented by 2/4 claps on top of it and the bass brought forward.

The stereo mix is so watered down that it was hard for me understand why that song was so huge. The 2/4 claps are mysteriously omitted and the bass is more subtle which makes the song a bit boring to my ears.

Hearing it live is outright boring. Bares no resemblance to the hit single.

Absolutely agree. The mono mix with the enhanced claps and vibrant bass jumps right out of the speakers, with the stereo mix more laid back.

[Ollie9]

I tend to believe that Mary on lead on "Where Did Our Love Go" might have worked; however, part of the magic of that song for me is Mary's background vocal...it's hard to imagine anything else. Practically every mix I've heard of WDOLG barely has Florence's voice audible at all. In fact, there are some mixes where it only sounds like Mary dueting with Diana.

I do wonder if “WDOLG” might not have been as successful without Mary’s huge vocal contribution to the style and sound of the song. At this point in time all three women were vital to the success and smooth running of the Supremes machine.

[bradsupremes]

I'll go a step further and say it was the mono single mix of WDOLG that made it a hit, with the 4/4 thunderclaps augmented by 2/4 claps on top of it and the bass brought forward.

The stereo mix is so watered down that it was hard for me understand why that song was so huge. The 2/4 claps are mysteriously omitted and the bass is more subtle which makes the song a bit boring to my ears.

Hearing it live is outright boring. Bares no resemblance to the hit single.

Absolutely agree. The mono mix grabs you instantly. I can only imagine what it was like driving in a car in 1964 and hearing those footstomps and handclaps coming through the speakers for the first time.

The song never worked live and I can see why it didn't stay in their act after they began to accumulate hit after hit. And the stereo version, while nice, is a perfect example of something that works perfectly in mono but doesn't always translate to stereo.

[Ollie9]

I consider the T.A.M.I show 64 to be the groups best live performance of the song, Diana gives it her all here, caressing those lyrics for all she’s worth.
I think the song was less effective when sped up to much.

[sup_fan]

I consider the T.A.M.I show 64 to be the groups best live performance of the song, Diana gives it her all here, caressing those lyrics for all she’s worth.
I think the song was less effective when sped up to much.

i agree. the other few vids of WDOLG live aren't as great. on TAMI the band is really pretty much spot-on with the heavy bass drum and all.

according to the Marvelette's book and Gladys' comments in it, WDOLG is all lead vocal. the rest of the production is so sparse there's just not much to it. whereas Too Many Fish In The Sea has all sorts of stuff going on. so not only did WDOLG just not jump out to the M's in the studio, i agree that live it's just not going to really translate well.

[Ollie9]

i agree. the other few vids of WDOLG live aren't as great. on TAMI the band is really pretty much spot-on with the heavy bass drum and all.

according to the Marvelette's book and Gladys' comments in it, WDOLG is all lead vocal. the rest of the production is so sparse there's just not much to it. whereas Too Many Fish In The Sea has all sorts of stuff going on. so not only did WDOLG just not jump out to the M's in the studio, i agree that live it's just not going to really translate well.

Allowing for the fact that the group hankered after more soulful material, i have always found it slightly odd that the Supremes appeared totally clueless as to the songs obvious potential. HDH and BG himself knew what they were doing.

[TheMotownManiac]

The fact being, had Eddie Holland had his way the song would have featured Mary on lead. If Mary can sound dull and lifeless, Diana could sound shrill and grating.
Being so familiar with hearing Diana’s voice on the song it’s hard to imagine anyone else singing it. As it stands, Marys voice is featured loud and clear on “WDOLG” contributing much to the feel, vibe and success of the song. With this in mind, i really wouldn’t be so readily dismissive in thinking her lead would have been instantly rejected.

I understand your point, but I disagreed with it completely.

Diana can certainly sound shrill, but we are talking about where did our love go and she does not sound shrill on Where did our love go. What she can do and did you like two completely different things. We are talking about the lead vocal on this record only. I thought.

mary’s sound on the record is perfect for the background, so perfect. That flow is practically nonexistent. But what has that got to do with her singing lead on the song? Nothing. It’s my believe that Mary would record this and seeing this much like she did come and get these memories, which I think is a terrible lead vocal. Mary’s forte was ballads - she certainly did not have a voice for Pop radio. And for all the talk and what if’s and if only‘s, how many producers went to Mary and said “I wanna record this single with you on the lead?” I think that she eventually became more adept to the vocal nuances necessary, which I think she exhibits beautifully on automatically sunshine. But I think a little of Mary goes a long way on top 40 radio. Pop radio likes sounds that go down easy, as simple as possible. I don’t think producer saw potential with her voice for this format.

The bottom line is, the single sold over 2 million copies and changed the fortunes of many. The luckiest day for anyone ever associated with Motown was the day Eddie Holland was out voted. And that includes Mary.

[sup_fan]

I understand your point, but I disagreed with it completely.

Diana can certainly sound shrill, but we are talking about where did our love go and she does not sound shrill on Where did our love go. What she can do and did you like two completely different things. We are talking about the lead vocal on this record only. I thought.

mary’s sound on the record is perfect for the background, so perfect. That flow is practically nonexistent. But what has that got to do with her singing lead on the song? Nothing. It’s my believe that Mary would record this and seeing this much like she did come and get these memories, which I think is a terrible lead vocal. Mary’s forte was ballads - she certainly did not have a voice for Pop radio. And for all the talk and what if’s and if only‘s, how many producers went to Mary and said “I wanna record this single with you on the lead?” I think that she eventually became more adept to the vocal nuances necessary, which I think she exhibits beautifully on automatically sunshine. But I think a little of Mary goes a long way on top 40 radio. Pop radio likes sounds that go down easy, as simple as possible. I don’t think producer saw potential with her voice for this format.

The bottom line is, the single sold over 2 million copies and changed the fortunes of many. The luckiest day for anyone ever associated with Motown was the day Eddie Holland was out voted. And that includes Mary.

100%

i can't really figure out mary's leads. with the holiday season here, the duet version of The Christmas Song with her and D came on again. although we only hear snippets of Mary's part, it is IMO one of her most gorgeous leads. those nuances you mention - man!! she caresses and works each one. it truly shows her talent as a singer.

but then Come and Get These Memories is just ok. and I don't think she's as magical on Falling in Love With Love as she is on Xmas Song.

and then in the 70s she sound exquisite on Bridge Over Troubled Water. Auto Sunshine is sensational. But on A Heart Like Mine - blah.

This isn't to say she doesn't sound good. of course she sounds good. she wouldn't have been in the group or the studio if she couldn't sing. but she often didn't sound CAPTIVATING. i think that's the issue.

[Ollie9]

I understand your point, but I disagreed with it completely.

Diana can certainly sound shrill, but we are talking about where did our love go and she does not sound shrill on Where did our love go. What she can do and did you like two completely different things. We are talking about the lead vocal on this record only. I thought.

mary’s sound on the record is perfect for the background, so perfect. That flow is practically nonexistent. But what has that got to do with her singing lead on the song? Nothing. It’s my believe that Mary would record this and seeing this much like she did come and get these memories, which I think is a terrible lead vocal. Mary’s forte was ballads - she certainly did not have a voice for Pop radio. And for all the talk and what if’s and if only‘s, how many producers went to Mary and said “I wanna record this single with you on the lead?” I think that she eventually became more adept to the vocal nuances necessary, which I think she exhibits beautifully on automatically sunshine. But I think a little of Mary goes a long way on top 40 radio. Pop radio likes sounds that go down easy, as simple as possible. I don’t think producer saw potential with her voice for this format.

The bottom line is, the single sold over 2 million copies and changed the fortunes of many. The luckiest day for anyone ever associated with Motown was the day Eddie Holland was out voted. And that includes Mary.

Mary Wilson’s voice is not a million miles away from the sound of Mary Wells, being a voice pop radio did indeed love with a number of pop hits to her credit. “WDOLG” always reminds me of “When I’m Gone” on which Mary Wilson would have sounded terrific.
If Supremes songs had been written with Mary’s voice in mind who’s to say how successful they might have been.
Producers at Motown didn’t go to Mary and say “I wanna record this single with you on lead” because they were ordered not to by the boss. Diana was lead singer and that was that.
Im not downplaying Diana’s role as she was a terrific lead singer of the Supremes. What i’m saying is Mary was never given the same chances or support as Diana, so to simply dismiss her as having a voice not suitable for pop radio is not really being fair.

[Spreadinglove21]

I would presume that if HDH had voted for Mary to sing lead on Where Did Our Love Go, and they wanted that song to get a single release and be a hit, they would have kept Mary in the studio until they got a vocal out of her that would meet their hopes and expectations of getting a hit. If she had delivered a vocal like she did on Come and Get These Memories, HDH would have replied "Take 2", etc. and offered direction or done whatever to get what they wanted to get from her. Just like with Ross who got the sound they wanted because she was mad at having to sing a song she didn't like.

[blackguy69]

That’s something that always bugs me when some are dismissive of Mary’s or Flo’s voice. Both of them wasn’t given an opportunity to develop their skills so we don’t know what would have happened if they were given the chance. Diana’s first didn’t do squat so they shifted to Flo. Then BP flopped, that should have been the time they tested Mary to see if her voice worked. But BG went back to Diana and the next 4 singles flopped before Lovelight hit. If BG put a quarter of effort to develop Mary and Flo who Knows what the payoffs would have been. I’m not taking anything away from Diana, but we will never know what could have been.

Mary Wilson’s voice is not a million miles away from the sound of Mary Wells, being a voice pop radio did indeed love with a number of pop hits to her credit. “WDOLG” always reminds me of “When I’m Gone” on which Mary Wilson would have sounded terrific.
If Supremes songs had been written with Mary’s voice in mind who’s to say how successful they might have been.
Producers at Motown didn’t go to Mary and say “I wanna record this single with you on lead” because they were ordered not to by the boss. Diana was lead singer and that was that.
Im not downplaying Diana’s role as she was a terrific lead singer of the Supremes. What i’m saying is Mary was never given the same chances or support as Diana, so to simply dismiss her as having a voice not suitable for pop radio is not really being fair.

[bradsupremes]

Im not downplaying Diana’s role as she was a terrific lead singer of the Supremes. What i’m saying is Mary was never given the same chances or support as Diana, so to simply dismiss her as having a voice not suitable for pop radio is not really being fair.

Because we didn't get many leads from Mary and Flo, I agree, it is unfair to say if their voices were unsuitable for pop radio. They didn't get the practice or coaching the way Diana did. Diana's voice made leaps and bounds in growth every year because she got the experience in the studio and onstage. While true that Mary and Flo were singing too, doing "Ooo's" is a way different from interpreting and conveying a lyric. I'm willing to bet that if Mary and Flo had been given the same opportunity to grow as vocalists in those years they would have come out just as strong vocally. Now, Diana's voice was special and she had that certain sparkle to her voice that set her apart, a definite commercial appeal.

I actually think Mary was the best of them in the early years - she showed a ton of promise, but then when Diana was assigned lead, Mary's skill and confidence didn't grow with her maturing voice especially when being told by Gordy that she couldn't sing. It wasn't until 1974 when she began to sing more leads, get the vocal coaching, etc. that she grew in her confidence and became a strong singer which just continued until her death. I would argue that of all the surviving Motown folks with maybe the exception of Gladys, Mary had the best well-maintain voice. Even Diana's voice didn't hold up to Mary's strength.

[sup_fan]

none of us are saying M and F aren't good singers. or that it would utterly impossible to have a hit on their voices. I think the comparison with Mary Wells and Mary Wilson is quite a fair one. i think a soft, smooth vocal like My Guy could have been right up Mary Wilson's alley.

But i don't see having 12 #1 and another handful of top tens off of either of their voices. And i think that's because they didn't have the versatility of Diana's voice. and frankly that's not really something practice alone would have remedied. Diana also had just an utterly incredible ability to interpret lyrics. and that's something she's doing early in her career. sure she definitely improved her interpretation skills as time went on but there was a LOT there to work with.

while WDOLG might be an easy going, shuffling song with some similarities to My Guy, the lead vocals of each are radically different. Could Mary Wells or Mary Wilson have sung WDOLG? sure. i think it would have been a fine song and probably a solid album cut. but neither MWs could have matched Diana's lead for WDOLG

[TheMotownManiac]

Mary Wilson’s voice is not a million miles away from the sound of Mary Wells, being a voice pop radio did indeed love with a number of pop hits to her credit. “WDOLG” always reminds me of “When I’m Gone” on which Mary Wilson would have sounded terrific.
If Supremes songs had been written with Mary’s voice in mind who’s to say how successful they might have been.
Producers at Motown didn’t go to Mary and say “I wanna record this single with you on lead” because they were ordered not to by the boss. Diana was lead singer and that was that.
Im not downplaying Diana’s role as she was a terrific lead singer of the Supremes. What i’m saying is Mary was never given the same chances or support as Diana, so to simply dismiss her as having a voice not suitable for pop radio is not really being fair.

it may not be fair, although I don’t even know what you mean by being fair. It’s my opinion. Over the years, the majority of people who have an Over the years, the majority of people who have an expressed an opinion about Mary’s Voice has not been very complementary. Folks here on this forum are diehard Supremes fans, and have a loyalty and love for Mary that extends to her talent. In the real world, this does not exist. When the Supremes were desperate for material, there wasn’t much coming her way. And after she left the company, there was nothing.

The fact that you will present a supposition that if the songs had been written for Mary, instead of Miss Ross, perhaps they also would’ve made music history, and change the culture in the United States and the world. Mathematically, it’s possible, but I think the fraction of that happening would have a lot of numbers after the decimal point. Anyway, that’s my opinion of her voice and it’s real to me. Of course I know there are people here that disagree with me. I also know there are people that do agree with me but don’t want to get into the conversation. I’ve stated many times that I think Mary could be very effective in certain genres, top 40 is definitely not one of them.
That edict came down in the fall of 63, Mary wasn’t getting lead sheets before that as well. They weren’t ordered not to give anything to mary. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have given Mary come and get these memories or the shared parts in various songs. If HDH really felt that Mary could nail that song they would have done it, perfected it, given it to Gordy, and if it was wonderful, he would’ve released it. It didn’t fit his dream of the group, but he’s not gonna turn down a hit record for anything especially back then. And if Bryan Holland had been in love with Mary, instead of ross, he could have written those songs for her. But his description of why he wrote baby love is pretty personal about his feelings for diana.
Bottom line I don’t think Mary had a voice for radio at all. It doesn’t do anything that AM radio is about in my opinion. But we can just disagree. It’s all right.
However, we do agree on how wonderful she sounds in the background, and I think they were wise to use basically just her. But I absolutely don’t feel she is an equal part of the song at all. She makes it better, certainly. I hope Mary knew what a great band hers you you are. She really loved and appreciated her fans and cherished them.

[bradsupremes]

none of us are saying M and F aren't good singers. or that it would utterly impossible to have a hit on their voices. I think the comparison with Mary Wells and Mary Wilson is quite a fair one. i think a soft, smooth vocal like My Guy could have been right up Mary Wilson's alley.

But i don't see having 12 #1 and another handful of top tens off of either of their voices. And i think that's because they didn't have the versatility of Diana's voice. and frankly that's not really something practice alone would have remedied. Diana also had just an utterly incredible ability to interpret lyrics. and that's something she's doing early in her career. sure she definitely improved her interpretation skills as time went on but there was a LOT there to work with.

while WDOLG might be an easy going, shuffling song with some similarities to My Guy, the lead vocals of each are radically different. Could Mary Wells or Mary Wilson have sung WDOLG? sure. i think it would have been a fine song and probably a solid album cut. but neither MWs could have matched Diana's lead for WDOLG

Oh I agree that they didn't have the voice that would have guaranteed 12 number one hits, but given what was hitting the charts during that time and the voices of some of the artists I'm sure they could have scored a few number ones. They were certainly better than some lead singers of some groups.

Diana had a very palatable voice - easy to mold to whatever genre. It's why I think she's such a gifted and frankly underrated singer. She doesn't get enough credit for having a voice that worked so well with so many genres and styles. That being said, I disagree about "WDLGO" and Mary. I think it would have been a hit had she sung it. Given a little time to work with HDH, she could have given a solid vocal on it.

[TheMotownManiac]

I would presume that if HDH had voted for Mary to sing lead on Where Did Our Love Go, and they wanted that song to get a single release and be a hit, they would have kept Mary in the studio until they got a vocal out of her that would meet their hopes and expectations of getting a hit. If she had delivered a vocal like she did on Come and Get These Memories, HDH would have replied "Take 2", etc. and offered direction or done whatever to get what they wanted to get from her. Just like with Ross who got the sound they wanted because she was mad at having to sing a song she didn't like.

my guess is that the come and get these memories that we were rewarded with was not the first take, as there is an alternate, and I assume others. I don’t know the particulars about why Florence was not on you can’t hurry, love, but I have been told she was not happy about not being on it. It certainly must’ve slipped Mary’s mind not to make it into her book, but it made better reading to save the A’s for when she wasn’t on it also. Anyway, I digress. In my sneaky, suspicious, bitchy little brain, I feel there’s a strong possibility Mary was given come and get these memories to piss off Florence. No one has ever told me that, or suggested it, but I just can’t think of another reason why that made it onto the album. Mary was capable of much better than that. If they wanted to give her a cut, give her something that she could excel on.
As far as working with her on, where did our love go until they got it right, yes, they did. Several takes with Miss Ross until they got a good one. I think eventually they would’ve run out of tape if they were working with Mary on that particular song. You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnup.

[TheMotownManiac]

Because we didn't get many leads from Mary and Flo, I agree, it is unfair to say if their voices were unsuitable for pop radio. They didn't get the practice or coaching the way Diana did. Diana's voice made leaps and bounds in growth every year because she got the experience in the studio and onstage. While true that Mary and Flo were singing too, doing "Ooo's" is a way different from interpreting and conveying a lyric. I'm willing to bet that if Mary and Flo had been given the same opportunity to grow as vocalists in those years they would have come out just as strong vocally. Now, Diana's voice was special and she had that certain sparkle to her voice that set her apart, a definite commercial appeal.

I actually think Mary was the best of them in the early years - she showed a ton of promise, but then when Diana was assigned lead, Mary's skill and confidence didn't grow with her maturing voice especially when being told by Gordy that she couldn't sing. It wasn't until 1974 when she began to sing more leads, get the vocal coaching, etc. that she grew in her confidence and became a strong singer which just continued until her death. I would argue that of all the surviving Motown folks with maybe the exception of Gladys, Mary had the best well-maintain voice. Even Diana's voice didn't hold up to Mary's strength.

it is amazing how well Mary and Gladys’ voices held up. Diana‘s voice has actually gotten better in the last few years, although she certainly has her off nights. I’ve seen a number of her recent shows and there are times where she is breathtaking and sounds amazing. And I’m talking about when she’s not using anything to help. Sometimes in some songs now she moves in and out and I can’t tell if it’s live or if it’s Memorex. It goes back-and-forth in one song. But she usually knocks one or two unadulterated vocals out of the park every show. And that’s not something she was doing eight years ago.

As far as voices go, I agree with you, that I think Mary had the “best “voice back in the day. But Diana was so much more expressive, without coaching without experience, even on those early songs, where she’s nasaling through her nasalness, she signs of a gifted vocalist, who understands how to punch up a song, interpret lyrics, and work with what God gave her.
I absolutely do not believe if the sweet Lord Jesus stood on his head, no amount of coaching could turn Mary into a popstar for radio. Perhaps Florence, with a lot of coaching, could have become something. Her phrasing is just so amateurish, she seems oblivious to the basic do’s and don’ts. But she had power, certainly and charisma for days

I just don’t buy into the axiom that basically any two singers picked at random from our studio audience could spend a few hours with HDH in the studio or a few months with HDH in the studio for a few years with HDH in the studio could have gone anywhere near the magic they created with Miss Ross. And, they sound so magnificent together in the background. There are two voices sound better than the Andantes 3 voices.

[Ollie9]

it may not be fair, although I don’t even know what you mean by being fair. It’s my opinion. Over the years, the majority of people who have an Over the years, the majority of people who have an expressed an opinion about Mary’s Voice has not been very complementary. Folks here on this forum are diehard Supremes fans, and have a loyalty and love for Mary that extends to her talent. In the real world, this does not exist. When the Supremes were desperate for material, there wasn’t much coming her way. And after she left the company, there was nothing.

The fact that you will present a supposition that if the songs had been written for Mary, instead of Miss Ross, perhaps they also would’ve made music history, and change the culture in the United States and the world. Mathematically, it’s possible, but I think the fraction of that happening would have a lot of numbers after the decimal point. Anyway, that’s my opinion of her voice and it’s real to me. Of course I know there are people here that disagree with me. I also know there are people that do agree with me but don’t want to get into the conversation. I’ve stated many times that I think Mary could be very effective in certain genres, top 40 is definitely not one of them.
That edict came down in the fall of 63, Mary wasn’t getting lead sheets before that as well. They weren’t ordered not to give anything to mary. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have given Mary come and get these memories or the shared parts in various songs. If HDH really felt that Mary could nail that song they would have done it, perfected it, given it to Gordy, and if it was wonderful, he would’ve released it. It didn’t fit his dream of the group, but he’s not gonna turn down a hit record for anything especially back then. And if Bryan Holland had been in love with Mary, instead of ross, he could have written those songs for her. But his description of why he wrote baby love is pretty personal about his feelings for diana.
Bottom line I don’t think Mary had a voice for radio at all. It doesn’t do anything that AM radio is about in my opinion. But we can just disagree. It’s all right.
However, we do agree on how wonderful she sounds in the background, and I think they were wise to use basically just her. But I absolutely don’t feel she is an equal part of the song at all. She makes it better, certainly. I hope Mary knew what a great band hers you you are. She really loved and appreciated her fans and cherished them.

By fair i mean taking into consideration that Mary was never given the total support that Diana was.
The producers were told that Diana was the lead singer. I don’t think the owner of the record company would have been very happy with any producer going against his wishes and cutting potential singles with Mary or Flo on lead. The very odd album track yes, potential singles no.
Perhaps if Mary had the attention lavished on her that Diana did the public would not only have become more familiar with her voice, but also her persona as a performer. This certainly would have made things easier for her in later years.
Diana was/is unique and the right choice for most of those supremes hits. As far as “WDOLG”, we agree to disagree as i think with time and care it might have proved just as big a hit with M’s Wilson taking centre stage.

[Spreadinglove21]

my guess is that the come and get these memories that we were rewarded with was not the first take, as there is an alternate, and I assume others. I don’t know the particulars about why Florence was not on you can’t hurry, love, but I have been told she was not happy about not being on it. It certainly must’ve slipped Mary’s mind not to make it into her book, but it made better reading to save the A’s for when she wasn’t on it also. Anyway, I digress. In my sneaky, suspicious, bitchy little brain, I feel there’s a strong possibility Mary was given come and get these memories to piss off Florence. No one has ever told me that, or suggested it, but I just can’t think of another reason why that made it onto the album. Mary was capable of much better than that. If they wanted to give her a cut, give her something that she could excel on.
As far as working with her on, where did our love go until they got it right, yes, they did. Several takes with Miss Ross until they got a good one. I think eventually they would’ve run out of tape if they were working with Mary on that particular song. You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnup.

I suspect more time and work was invested in singles and potential singles the Supremes recorded than for album track fillers like Come and Get These Memories. One reason why I don't care for most of the Supremes 60s albums. The quality on both 70s Supremes and Ross solo albums were much better in the 70s.

[sup_fan]

Oh I agree that they didn't have the voice that would have guaranteed 12 number one hits, but given what was hitting the charts during that time and the voices of some of the artists I'm sure they could have scored a few number ones. They were certainly better than some lead singers of some groups.

Diana had a very palatable voice - easy to mold to whatever genre. It's why I think she's such a gifted and frankly underrated singer. She doesn't get enough credit for having a voice that worked so well with so many genres and styles. That being said, I disagree about "WDLGO" and Mary. I think it would have been a hit had she sung it. Given a little time to work with HDH, she could have given a solid vocal on it.

i was just listening to WDOLG again last night, specifically to hone in on what were some of the things diana did to make it special. in the beginning when she sings "please don't leave me" there's a special way in which she milks the "please." she does it again a few bars later on the "deep inside me", working the work deep.

Randy described Diana's voice on WDOLG as a mix between Eartha Kitt and Minnie Mouse. and that's such a perfect description. because of it's unusual sound and tone, it works. there's the weirdness of Minnie Mouse's nasal voice but combined with the sensuality of Eartha. it's this weird voice that is able to make WDOLG unique. either of the MWs would have been simply blended away into the sparse production.

listen to all of the magic of My Guy - frankly it's not MW that is the magic here. she was a limited singer with a rather blah voice [[don't take that as criticism since i do really enjoy her music). the magic of Mary Wells though was the BRILLIANCE of the producers, Smokey especially. he crafted these amazing backing tracks, background vocals and effects that created this perfect environment for mary. WDOLG does not have those elements to support a limited voice like either MW.

now could Mary Wilson have sung My Guy? absolutely and it could very well have gone #1. she could have been brilliant on Every Little Bit Hurts or When I'm Gone.

[sup_fan]

my guess is that the come and get these memories that we were rewarded with was not the first take, as there is an alternate, and I assume others. I don’t know the particulars about why Florence was not on you can’t hurry, love, but I have been told she was not happy about not being on it. It certainly must’ve slipped Mary’s mind not to make it into her book, but it made better reading to save the A’s for when she wasn’t on it also. Anyway, I digress. In my sneaky, suspicious, bitchy little brain, I feel there’s a strong possibility Mary was given come and get these memories to piss off Florence. No one has ever told me that, or suggested it, but I just can’t think of another reason why that made it onto the album. Mary was capable of much better than that. If they wanted to give her a cut, give her something that she could excel on.
As far as working with her on, where did our love go until they got it right, yes, they did. Several takes with Miss Ross until they got a good one. I think eventually they would’ve run out of tape if they were working with Mary on that particular song. You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnup.

from what i've pieced together from the EE booklets, the girls were scheduled to be in the studio on July 4, 1966. obviously that's a holiday. M and D were there but no Flo. why? no idea. the group had been at the Music Circus in Lambertville, NJ from 6/21 - 7/3, the O'Keefe Center in Toronto prior to that, the Venetian Room in San Fran from 5/19 - 6/8, Vancouver for the first half of May. So given that it was a holiday, maybe flo said F U and went to do things with her family, maybe she was sick. don't know

anyway M and D did What Becomes of the Broken Hearted on 7/4 and then YCHL and other tunes with Marlene joining in on 7/5. If Flo was pissed about being cut from YCHL she really only had herself to blame.

but i do think you have a point about why Mary tunes were being put onto albums and Flo tunes were not.

for the specialty albums, in general both M and F got individual leads

Liverpool - Flo on I Saw Him Standing and Mary on the duet lines on You Really Got a Hold on me
CW&P - each on Makes No Difference, Mary on Sunet
There's a Place - Mary on Our Day, Flo on People [[but People wasn't on the actual list of 12 songs for the album)
Sam Cooke - Flo on Good News, mary sort of does that little line on Chain Gang
Christmas - Flo on Silent and Holy, Mary on Xmas Song
R&H - mary on Falling, Flo on Manhattan
Disney - they share Davey

I don't know if Mary getting Come and Get These Memories was to piss Flo off or to reward Mary for playing by the rules.

[sup_fan]

one of the HDH guys mentions that when Nothing But Heartaches "failed" it had all sorts of questions popping up. was the HDH run with the girls over? should another producer do something with them now? should they bring M or F up?

[sup_fan]

this is copied from the Diana Ross Project website, in his review of the overall lp. i think this is 100% spot on and it's so unfortunate that the industry and public doesn't really pay attention to it

Where Did Our Love Go, simply put, is one of the most important pop albums of all time. It’s a work that features a whopping six singles that charted on the Billboard Hot 100, including an astounding three #1 hits. It sent the careers of Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard — which had barely limped along since the beginning of the decade — into the stratosphere, and forced the music world to acknowledge Motown Records as the preeminent force behind American pop/soul music, which it would remain [[unchallenged) for the next several years. Never before in the rock era had a female vocal group dominated music this way, let alone an African-American female vocal group.

[TheMotownManiac]

I suspect more time and work was invested in singles and potential singles the Supremes recorded than for album track fillers like Come and Get These Memories. One reason why I don't care for most of the Supremes 60s albums. The quality on both 70s Supremes and Ross solo albums were much better in the 70s.

it’s criminal the way they filled those albums. It seems like there is no time spent on many of the tracks, and the vocals often sound like one offs. One of Ross’ natural gifts is to BS her way through a song well enough, but her reading of it’s the same old song, while it works, sounds to me as if she had never even heard it before. The later they get into the 60s, the less effective some of her vocals are. She sounds burned out to me. especially and let the sun shine in. I think she’s brilliant on no matter what sign you are, and OK on the other two singles, but there’s some tracks on that I cannot listen to. On the some her voice is exhausted, on others. She sounds exhausted and on others. She sounds both. Ditto on the together album.
Can you imagine if they actually put a little time and effort into those albums?

I don’t think anything could’ve gotten the correct performance out of Mary and come and get these memories. I just don’t think it’s our kind of song. She’s fantastic on baby don’t go and I don’t think it’s because they gave her a bunch of time to work on it. her voice comes alive when she’s actually singing a ballad, popping off at pop, ditty like memories doesn’t give her a chance to let her voice bloom. The lack of emotion is Just interrp, I guess. Would it have been great if they actually crafted a track that showed her gift off to its full advantage? One on each album. They could’ve done that for Florence also. Maybe if she had one track on each album That she could shine on, and feel good about, her fortunes would’ve been completely different, the group as well. It would’ve been a much brighter picture if Flo was with the group when Jean joined.

[bradsupremes]

To this day I haven’t been able to figure out who oversaw the assembling of albums and why they selected which songs to use. For speciality albums is one thing, but take an album like Cream of the Crop. It’s Diana’s last studio with the group and no one thought “Hey, let’s make this a solid album!” They had some great vaulted tracks like “Stormy,” “For Once In My Life,” and “You’re Gonna Hear From Me” sitting there but instead they pull a three year old “Blowin’ In The Wind?” Let The Sunshine In feels like it was thrown together in an hour. And yet so much attention was paid to Diana’s solo album along with Jean’s first album with the group.

[Ollie9]

Just because we as fans disagree on songs pertaining to certain albums, it’s perfectly reasonable to imagine that a certain amount of time and care did go into compiling those sets.
When discussing albums such as “LTISH” and “Ross”, it’s rarely agreed on what constitutes the perfect song lineup. I think it much the same with Supremes albums, as in what one likes the other doesn’t.
Despite the faults, i still enjoy listening to those albums, even though i have my own personal ideas as to how they could have been improved.

[sup_fan]

To this day I haven’t been able to figure out who oversaw the assembling of albums and why they selected which songs to use. For speciality albums is one thing, but take an album like Cream of the Crop. It’s Diana’s last studio with the group and no one thought “Hey, let’s make this a solid album!” They had some great vaulted tracks like “Stormy,” “For Once In My Life,” and “You’re Gonna Hear From Me” sitting there but instead they pull a three year old “Blowin’ In The Wind?” Let The Sunshine In feels like it was thrown together in an hour. And yet so much attention was paid to Diana’s solo album along with Jean’s first album with the group.

i agree - Wind should have been left in the vaults. but other than the excessive amount of covers, I do think most of the music the group was recording in 68 and 69 was still high quality. but it was also very varied. the way they were actually packaged and released was too chaotic. but you could easily re-assemble the albums and make some very interesting set.

LTSI - A mix of pop tunes, covers, some more social songs. Western Union, Honey Bee, Discover me, shadows of society, shame, everyday people.

Cream - you're right with your suggestions brad. and this would have been a perfect evolution of Diana's and the group's sound. into something more mature. Someday, Can't you see, Storm, you're gonna hear from me, you gave me love, the look of love, the beginning of the end.

[sup_fan]

it’s criminal the way they filled those albums. It seems like there is no time spent on many of the tracks, and the vocals often sound like one offs. One of Ross’ natural gifts is to BS her way through a song well enough, but her reading of it’s the same old song, while it works, sounds to me as if she had never even heard it before. The later they get into the 60s, the less effective some of her vocals are. She sounds burned out to me. especially and let the sun shine in. I think she’s brilliant on no matter what sign you are, and OK on the other two singles, but there’s some tracks on that I cannot listen to. On the some her voice is exhausted, on others. She sounds exhausted and on others. She sounds both. Ditto on the together album.
Can you imagine if they actually put a little time and effort into those albums?

I don’t think anything could’ve gotten the correct performance out of Mary and come and get these memories. I just don’t think it’s our kind of song. She’s fantastic on baby don’t go and I don’t think it’s because they gave her a bunch of time to work on it. her voice comes alive when she’s actually singing a ballad, popping off at pop, ditty like memories doesn’t give her a chance to let her voice bloom. The lack of emotion is Just interrp, I guess. Would it have been great if they actually crafted a track that showed her gift off to its full advantage? One on each album. They could’ve done that for Florence also. Maybe if she had one track on each album That she could shine on, and feel good about, her fortunes would’ve been completely different, the group as well. It would’ve been a much brighter picture if Flo was with the group when Jean joined.

I think the earlier hits albums work.

WDOLG - this is excellent, even though it has a variety of producers and styles. it still seems to hold together relatively well.

More Hits - other than repeating Ask Any Girl, this is a superb set. excellent, high quality tunes. and while it wasn't constructed using an over arching theme, it's just excellent pop material. the songs are all clearly by 1 production team, there's a cohesive sound and feel

Symphony - this was a concept. to elevate the perception of the group to a more sophisticated level and to balance their teen/pop image with the older/MOR/supper club image. i think the effect is positive although it's also an interesting time capsule. HDH produced this and this was sort of their first foray into the symphonic. there are some elements that aren't as strong as they would be when HDH did the Broadway/Hollywood set a little over a year later.

A Go Go - another concept. full on youth and dance. problem is, i agree with you that there's a carelessness about the productions. i don't have a problem that they're tapping into new producers, like Frank Wilson. but the LA productions typically lack the energy and strength of the Funk Bros. and M and F couldn't be more out of step then they are on most of their tracks here. the girls seem to just be phoning in their performances. I could never have imagined 2 black girls from Detroit sounding more square, prim, bored and matronly while singing Sloopy or Money.

HDH - this is a rather weak and thin concept. a tribute to their producers. it might have worked had ALL of the tracks really been stupendous. but too many old tunes, weaker productions.

[Ollie9]

Cream - you're right with your suggestions brad. and this would have been a perfect evolution of Diana's and the group's sound. into something more mature. Someday, Can't you see, Storm, you're gonna hear from me, you gave me love, the look of love, the beginning of the end.

I fail to see how a glossy, MOR Hollywood film soundtrack song such as “Your Gonna Hear From Me” would have been a progression of the groups sound. I’ll have to take another listen as i seem to have missed the background harmonies on that one.

[sup_fan]

I fail to see how a glossy, MOR Hollywood film soundtrack song such as “Your Gonna Hear From Me” would have been a progression of the groups sound. I’ll have to take another listen as i seem to have missed the background harmonies on that one.

well i don't know that anyone would call that 1 song the pinnacle of their recording work. but i think it's a dynamic lead from Diana, the heavy brass and backing track.

here's my revised CotC album

Someday
you Gave me love
Stormy
Will this be the day
you're gonna hear from me
loving you is better than ever

When it's to the top
those precious memories
the beginning of the end
the look of love
till johnny comes
i'll set you free

i had also redone the prior albums like Love Child and Sunshine, hence some of the tracks that HAD been originally on those albums were now "free" to use for my new Cream of the Crop lp. IMO there's more cohesiveness to this lineup. Not saying it would now qualify for Rolling Stones 100 most important albums of all time. but i think it helps take the girls into a bit more mature material, with then-current sounds and styles.

[Ollie9]

well i don't know that anyone would call that 1 song the pinnacle of their recording work. but i think it's a dynamic lead from Diana, the heavy brass and backing track.

here's my revised CotC album

Someday
you Gave me love
Stormy
Will this be the day
you're gonna hear from me
loving you is better than ever

When it's to the top
those precious memories
the beginning of the end
the look of love
till johnny comes
i'll set you free

i had also redone the prior albums like Love Child and Sunshine, hence some of the tracks that HAD been originally on those albums were now "free" to use for my new Cream of the Crop lp. IMO there's more cohesiveness to this lineup. Not saying it would now qualify for Rolling Stones 100 most important albums of all time. but i think it helps take the girls into a bit more mature material, with then-current sounds and styles.

Not a bad lineup of songs with the exception of “Your Gonna Hear From Me”. Apart from being a Diana solo, the song would be more at home on “GIT. with all the other MOR material performed on that special. One of the reasons i favour TCB.

[Ollie9]

well i don't know that anyone would call that 1 song the pinnacle of their recording work. but i think it's a dynamic lead from Diana, the heavy brass and backing track.

here's my revised CotC album

Someday
you Gave me love
Stormy
Will this be the day
you're gonna hear from me
loving you is better than ever

When it's to the top
those precious memories
the beginning of the end
the look of love
till johnny comes
i'll set you free

i had also redone the prior albums like Love Child and Sunshine, hence some of the tracks that HAD been originally on those albums were now "free" to use for my new Cream of the Crop lp. IMO there's more cohesiveness to this lineup. Not saying it would now qualify for Rolling Stones 100 most important albums of all time. but i think it helps take the girls into a bit more mature material, with then-current sounds and styles.

Not a bad lineup of songs with the exception of “Your Gonna Hear From Me”. Apart from being a Diana solo, the song would be more at home on “GIT. with all the other MOR material performed on that special. One of the reasons i favour TCB.

[reese]

Not a bad lineup of songs with the exception of “Your Gonna Hear From Me”. Apart from being a Diana solo, the song would be more at home on “GIT. with all the other MOR material performed on that special. One of the reasons i favour TCB.

I believe YOU'RE GONNA HEAR FROM ME is one of the last recordings that Diana did with Mary and Cindy.

[sup_fan]

Not a bad lineup of songs with the exception of “Your Gonna Hear From Me”. Apart from being a Diana solo, the song would be more at home on “GIT. with all the other MOR material performed on that special. One of the reasons i favour TCB.

haha see it just doesn't strike me at MOR or GIT lol. i find it funky, a soulful groove. but yes it's incomplete. as are several of the L&F tracks that i ended up using on my playlists. they're sort of placeholders for whatever their final version MIGHT have been

[Ollie9]

I believe YOU'RE GONNA HEAR FROM ME is one of the last recordings that Diana did with Mary and Cindy.

Interesting reese. It’s not that i hate the song by any means, just think it a direction the group should not have been heading in as they were already being accused of selling out. It might have worked well for Diana on her first tv special, or in concert 70 to 71.

[sup_fan]

was thinking more about the story of WDOLG being recorded and how it was such a boring sound to the girls compared to Locking up My Heart [[Feb 63) Heat Wave and Mickey's Monkey [[both July 63) Can I Get a Witness [[Sept 63) Quicksand [[Nov 63) and even the girls' own Lovelight [[Oct 63).

I was wondering though if it wasn't just WDOLG but ALL of the tunes the girls were recording at the time after the released of Lovelight. their recordings were:

Nov 63 - honey Baby
Jan 64 - Penny Pincher
Feb - Let me hear you say
March - Don't take it away, just call me, that's a funny way
April - WDOLG, Ask any girl

after the hugely bombastic nature of Lovelight plus the excitement of those other HDH songs and how artists were charting with them, i think it isn't just WDOLG that seemed to pale in comparison but ALL of their recordings. maybe they were complaining more about the culmination of the efforts rather than just 1 song

[bradsupremes]

was thinking more about the story of WDOLG being recorded and how it was such a boring sound to the girls compared to Locking up My Heart [[Feb 63) Heat Wave and Mickey's Monkey [[both July 63) Can I Get a Witness [[Sept 63) Quicksand [[Nov 63) and even the girls' own Lovelight [[Oct 63).

I was wondering though if it wasn't just WDOLG but ALL of the tunes the girls were recording at the time after the released of Lovelight. their recordings were:

Nov 63 - honey Baby
Jan 64 - Penny Pincher
Feb - Let me hear you say
March - Don't take it away, just call me, that's a funny way
April - WDOLG, Ask any girl

after the hugely bombastic nature of Lovelight plus the excitement of those other HDH songs and how artists were charting with them, i think it isn't just WDOLG that seemed to pale in comparison but ALL of their recordings. maybe they were complaining more about the culmination of the efforts rather than just 1 song

One would think that if Motown wanted to follow up "Lovelight," they would have gone with "Penny Pincher" as the follow-up single. Given that "Lovelight" was their most successful single at that point that they would have gone for a song with a similar sound/vibe. No doubt it would have done better chart-wise than "Run Run Run" - definitely would have gone top 40.