What if 'diana' had been properly promoted?

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Although the 1980 album 'diana' was Miss Ross' most successful album of all-time, Motown really stifled its' potential with lacklustre promotion.


No single to increase the hype for the album release. No music videos to assist world-wide promotion. An album like this could have been the perfect opportunity for an hour-long TV special with her performing many of the tracks as well as some of her greatest hits.


The single releases should have been something like this. Fairly constant but enough time between each for each to 'breathe':


Apr 80 Upside Down/Friend to Friend
May 80 diana
Jul 80 I'm Coming Out/Now That You're Gone
Sep 80 [[It's My Turn)
Dec 80 My Old Piano/Give Up
Mar 81 Tenderness/Have Fun [[Again)
Jun 81 [[Endless Love)


Of course all of the singles should have had music videos and, optimally, live performances on TV shows in the US & UK to promote them.


How much bigger could this album and the singles have been with a decent promotional strategy?

[Circa 1824]

Diana was lackluster in learning these new songs. Saw her in concert in Queens when the LP hit and the airwaves were playing it like crazy. Yet, Diana did not include it in her act, and after the audience demanded it, she grabbed the sheet music from her conductor and did a half assed attempt to sing it. It was either Upside or Coming Out. I can’t remember.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

From the info on setlists.fm it was about 18 months before she sang them live. And then they were the horrible half-assed versions she did for that Michael Jackson/Larry Hagman special. Not just Motown that squandered this opportunity but Diana herself.

[Ollie9]

The same with “Baby It’s Me”. My parents took me to see her in London during 78 when “Your Love Is So Good For Me “ had just been released as a single. Not once did she mention the album or perform any of its songs, including the new single.
It was reported in one of the newspapers the next day as being highly unusual.

[JohnnyB]

From the info on setlists.fm it was about 18 months before she sang them live. And then they were the horrible half-assed versions she did for that Michael Jackson/Larry Hagman special. Not just Motown that squandered this opportunity but Diana herself.

The “diana” tv special referenced, featuring ICO and UD, was filmed in February 1981, 8 months after the release of the LP. I can’t speak for all of her performances following the LP’s release, but Upside Down was added as early as August 1980 according to concert reviews. The info provided by Setlists.fm is incorrect.

[reese]

I have a Boston Globe review by Ernie Santosuosso for a September 1980 show in Providence, RI. Diana was so hot at the time that the original two-night engagement was extended to four, with two shows on some nights.

The set list was basically the same as the HBO special shown earlier in the year, with many songs from THE BOSS.The reviewer mentioned UPSIDE DOWN and made note that it was a no. 1 single. He went on to say something like it was a nice vocal that she could have exploited but didn't. I don't know if he didn't like the way she sang it or if she didn't sing it at all. But I find it hard to believe that she didn't perform it all.

He also mentioned that after the show ended with ALL FOR ONE, Diana had "second thoughts" and remerged with "COMING OUT" but that a lot of audience members had already left.

Note: I found the actual review. See link below.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...lobe/33321279/

[sup_fan]

i agree that more could have been done to incorporate Diana's and/or the supremes own material into their shows. we've had quite a few threads on the lack of promotion for 70s sup albums like Floy Joy or New Ways.

it takes a lot of money to revamp a show. having new orchestral charts created for the songs, new lighting and sound cues, etc. Of course shows have to be continually updated to keep them fresh. so it's a matter of coordinating things. and i'm not sure if back in the 70s motown was really set to do this. in the 60s and early 70s, it wasn't uncommon for the group to release multiple albums over the course of a year. so what all do you attempt to include in the live act?

I believe she launched the Boss tour in early summer 79. diana 80 was released in May. You also had all of the drama around the production of the album and frankly it's been said that motown, diana, berry - none of them were sure there was a hit to be found on it. there's even a story of a NY dj telling Diana this album would ruin her career since "disco is dead" was already a common phrase

Upside Down was released a MONTH after the lp hit the streets and that's after they first considered Have Fun and then considering I'm Coming Out. so with the first single released in late June and then taking several weeks to enter the charts [[much less become a big hit) it's not surprise that by Aug or so the album hadn't quite been incorporated into the act.

[BayouMotownMan]

There was a lot of internal activity going on with Ross and Motown at the time of the lps release.

First of all, I can tell you, Motown DID promote the album heavily. Videos were in their infancy and only a few were out, so the medium had not yet discovered the value of them.

Secondly, Motown and Ross were astonished at how the lp and single took off, far beyond expectations. Both started a casual rise up the charts but about four weeks into the chart action, the single just exploded, jumping from No 40 to No 10 in one week. The disco clubs, both gay and straight jumped on this thing and sent it through the roof.

More importanly, Diana's position at Motown was in question. Gordy was well aware that she was entertaining offers from other labels. This brought back the Mary Wells debacle in 1964 where he promoted her My Guy all the way to the top of the charts only to be thanked by her signing a deal with another label at top dollar because of that record's success. He certainly was not going to do this again. [[But essentially, he did).

Suzanne dePasse has spoken of this period. Gordy was bringing Motown back from the dead in 1980, with the company swimming in red after three years of poor sales. By 1981 his record company was again profitable but his stable of artists began bailing on him, with Ross leading the way.

[reese]

i agree that more could have been done to incorporate Diana's and/or the supremes own material into their shows. we've had quite a few threads on the lack of promotion for 70s sup albums like Floy Joy or New Ways.

it takes a lot of money to revamp a show. having new orchestral charts created for the songs, new lighting and sound cues, etc. Of course shows have to be continually updated to keep them fresh. so it's a matter of coordinating things. and i'm not sure if back in the 70s motown was really set to do this. in the 60s and early 70s, it wasn't uncommon for the group to release multiple albums over the course of a year. so what all do you attempt to include in the live act?

I believe she launched the Boss tour in early summer 79. diana 80 was released in May. You also had all of the drama around the production of the album and frankly it's been said that motown, diana, berry - none of them were sure there was a hit to be found on it. there's even a story of a NY dj telling Diana this album would ruin her career since "disco is dead" was already a common phrase

Upside Down was released a MONTH after the lp hit the streets and that's after they first considered Have Fun and then considering I'm Coming Out. so with the first single released in late June and then taking several weeks to enter the charts [[much less become a big hit) it's not surprise that by Aug or so the album hadn't quite been incorporated into the act.

J. Randy wrote about how with her 1979 tour, Diana discovered that she was actually losing money on the road. This was probably also around the time that she started discovering just how much money she had. Maybe she didn't want to invest more $ into getting new charts for the "diana" album since she had already recently revamped the act incorporating the material from THE BOSS.

That said, as big as "diana" was, I think it would have been money well spent to replace THE BOSS songs with material from "diana". But aside from the two hits, I don't think she ever did any of its album tracks. Aside from THE BOSS, she didn't really get into that until the RCA era.

[sup_fan]

J. Randy wrote about how with her 1979 tour, Diana discovered that she was actually losing money on the road. This was probably also around the time that she started discovering just how much money she had. Maybe she didn't want to invest more $ into getting new charts for the "diana" album since she had already recently revamped the act incorporating the material from THE BOSS.

That said, as big as "diana" was, I think it would have been money well spent to replace THE BOSS songs with material from "diana". But aside from the two hits, I don't think she ever did any of its album tracks. Aside from THE BOSS, she didn't really get into that until the RCA era.

that's a great point. The Boss shows were wildly extravagant. of course we have the HBO videos from Caesar's and those are probably even more over the top because it's Vegas.

when we see the footage of her at the Forum in LA that was included in the tv special, it's VERY different. a simple bare stage in the round, the orchestra and a few backing singers. that's it. not spinning panels, no laser light show, no ascending/descending from the stairway to heaven, no roller skating dancers.

previously there had been carryover elements between her versions of the show. Evening With went through several waves - at one point it promoted the DR76 material. then Ross 78. but for this Forum show, it was a 100% revamp. that takes time to build it out, prepare everything for a national tour, hire the musicians, stage hands, managers, etc.

[sup_fan]

That said, as big as "diana" was, I think it would have been money well spent to replace THE BOSS songs with material from "diana". But aside from the two hits, I don't think she ever did any of its album tracks. Aside from THE BOSS, she didn't really get into that until the RCA era.

it is odd that more tunes from diana weren't incorporated into the act. i think you're right - just those 2 singles.

we've talked a bit in the past about how many tunes she was doing from her albums in the shows.

Boss had 5 tunes from the album
Ross 78 - i think had 3 or so. You Were the One, To Love Again and Lovin Living Giving
Baby it's Me - i'm not sure really. Your Love, getting ready for love. but maybe others
DR 76 - Mahogany, I thought it took, Love hangover, One love in my lifetime, smile
Last time - LTISH, Sleeping
TMITM - TMITM? ??

[BobbyC]

I missed the 1960's Motown almost completely, being a 70's kid who only knew a few Supremes songs as oldies. So for me, Diana Ross WAS the Diana Ross from the Diana album. I'm not sure why people think it was not promoted because I remember hearing and seeing ads for the record all the time, everywhere. "Disco" was starting to get a backlash as people got tired of hearing songs about dancing, about quitting your job to go dancing, about dancing to keep from crying. The whole things just got so stupid it was embarrassing. Then this Diana album came out. It didn't sound like disco although it was very danceable. It didn't exactly sound like Chic either--Chic was on the way to being dead anyway. Diana sounded like the future and to my ears, it led the way to the second English invasion when we got Eurythmics, Culture Club, Thompson Twins and all those bands. It was such a wildly creative time until Madonna came a long and ruined everything.

[reese]

it is odd that more tunes from diana weren't incorporated into the act. i think you're right - just those 2 singles.

we've talked a bit in the past about how many tunes she was doing from her albums in the shows.

Boss had 5 tunes from the album
Ross 78 - i think had 3 or so. You Were the One, To Love Again and Lovin Living Giving
Baby it's Me - i'm not sure really. Your Love, getting ready for love. but maybe others
DR 76 - Mahogany, I thought it took, Love hangover, One love in my lifetime, smile
Last time - LTISH, Sleeping
TMITM - TMITM? ??

During some TOUR '79 shows, in addition to GETTIN' READY FOR LOVE, Diana also sang TOO SHY TO SAY, and ALL NIGHT LOVER from BABY IT'S ME.

For DIANA ROSS [['76), I don't think I THOUGHT IT TOOK A LITTLE TIME was part of the set list.

[sup_fan]

During some TOUR '79 shows, in addition to GETTIN' READY FOR LOVE, Diana also sang TOO SHY TO SAY, and ALL NIGHT LOVER from BABY IT'S ME.

For DIANA ROSS [['76), I don't think I THOUGHT IT TOOK A LITTLE TIME was part of the set list.

yeah i wasn't sure about I Thought It Took. the record was only out a short while before LH was rush released. wasn't sure if she maybe still did the song live since it's a wonderful tune. it was already on the charts and so maybe they had started to prepare the musical charts for it? not sure. probably not but wouldn't that be a find to discover a fan bootleg! lol

[Ollie9]

Considering ‘diana’ ended up being her biggest selling album, it’s amazing to think that unlike “The Boss”, she never incorporated any of its songs other then “Upside Down” and “Coming Out” into her concerts.
It’s also interesting that despite “My Old Piano” becoming a top five hit in the UK, she never performed it here there or anywhere.
“Tenderness” and “Now That Your Gone” would have sounded great live, so it’s a huge pity the album was only ever represented by two songs.
Perhaps she just wasn’t very fond of the rest.

[sup_fan]

as bayou mentioned, i wonder if it was a cost and timing thing. the album came out in summer of 80 and she was gone from the label by spring 81, less than a year later. given the costs of The Boss show, maybe she wanted to avoid spending too much. plus she would be having to do another new show in a year to promote another new album [[the debut RCA album). on top of that she had to incorporate It's My Turn and Endless Love into the concerts.

also the album sold a zillion copies as it is. i don't know if the costs of developing more charts for more tunes would have pushed any additional sales. it was selling fine on it's own

[Ollie9]

as bayou mentioned, i wonder if it was a cost and timing thing. the album came out in summer of 80 and she was gone from the label by spring 81, less than a year later. given the costs of The Boss show, maybe she wanted to avoid spending too much. plus she would be having to do another new show in a year to promote another new album [[the debut RCA album). on top of that she had to incorporate It's My Turn and Endless Love into the concerts.

also the album sold a zillion copies as it is. i don't know if the costs of developing more charts for more tunes would have pushed any additional sales. it was selling fine on it's own

I can’t imagine how adding an additional song from the album would have made that much of a difference to the purse strings.
It’s a huge shame ‘diana’ wasn’t promoted on tv the way she did with “Why Do Fools” on Soul Train.
Despite the albums huge success, i believe she was far more fond of “The Boss” as a complete album than she ever was of “diana”.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Videos were in their infancy and only a few were out, so the medium had not yet discovered the value of them.

Really? Bands like ABBA had been putting them out for like 7 years. And other American divas like Cher had them out from the early 70s.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

i believe she was far more fond of “The Boss” as a complete album than she ever was of “diana”.

'The Boss' could also have done with a more strategic promotional campaign/singles release timeline.

Oh - and music videos...

The only thing right with 'The Boss' was that HBO Special.

[reese]

'The Boss' could also have done with a more strategic promotional campaign/singles release timeline.

Oh - and music videos...

The only thing right with 'The Boss' was that HBO Special.

At the time, I don't know where any "diana" era videos would have been shown, at least not in the US. Channels like MTV and VH1 weren't around yet, and BET's VIDEO SOUL didn't premiere until 1981.

[Boogiedown]

............................ "Disco" was starting to get a backlash as people got tired of hearing songs about dancing, about quitting your job to go dancing, about dancing to keep from crying. ..........................

Oh dear Bobby .....I wanna hear that song about quitting your job to go dancing . As for dancing the cry out of you .....I suspect you mean this one ???




never saw that video before, thanks!!!

But this extended version with the fierce mid-section is what took it to #2 Disco :

[Jaap]

At the time, I don't know where any "diana" era videos would have been shown, at least not in the US. Channels like MTV and VH1 weren't around yet, and BET's VIDEO SOUL didn't premiere until 1981.

There was actually a music video for Upside Down, creatively created from images from Mahogany, pictures of The Boss, and even shots of TCB. I assume that was created for the European market, as music videos were very common in Europe in the 1970s. Back then, all countries had their own public television with their own pop music program, their own "top of the pops", so it was beneficial to make promotion video's, rather than having to visit all the different shows in the different countries. It is also not coincidental that the music video for "My Old Piano" was shot in the UK, for European promotion. When MTV started in the US in 1981, the majority of their music videos were European, as there were so many available. The coming of MTV has really helped the popularity of British bands in the US, such as Duran Duran, Eurythmics, The Human League, Culture Club, because they already had fancy music videos.

[BobbyC]

Hi Boogsie baby! Try giving Lost in Music by Sister Sludge a listen.

[BobbyC]

Also take a listen to Patti Labelle's Music Is My Way of Life

[Boogiedown]

Patti:
When the daylight comes and I'm leaving the dance floor by night time I'll be back for more.

she leaves , goes to work [draggin' her ass] in the day, can't wait to go back that night ....so she hasn't quit her job , at least not yet!

maybe she could get a job in the disco's cloak room !


Kathy:
We're lost in music
Feel so alive
I quit my nine to five
We're lost in music

yes there it is!!

oh but wait , further in :

I want to join a band
And play in front of crazy fans

so that could be David Lee Roth ,

oh but what the heck the line's in a disco song, I'll give it to you, ..... any more ??

And poor Michael's got it all wrong:

You got me workin' workin' day and night
You say that workin'
Is what a man's supposed to do

maybe his night job is the club doorman

[BobbyC]

Hee hee! Boogie! I never realized that you are a fan of good trash, too! Every time I heard that line in Music Is My Way of Life about dancing until dawn then being back by sunset, I was like when does Miss Patti work? Cocktails are expensive and so are cover charges!!! And if you quit your 9-5, you're gonna soon be lost in the unemployment line! Bad plan!!! But those Sledge Sisters never wanted to work! That was just a joke.

[midnightman]

Diana was dead serious on leaving the label when she finished that album in 1980. I know she wanted to reconnect with that era's pop audience. Remember, it had been a long four years since she had a smash and she was still bruising from the fallout of The Wiz. The Boss sold well but suffered because Gordy wasn't the executive producer [[Diana was) and because of this, Motown offered little support. Ashford & Simpson gave her a great album but it wasn't gonna bring Diana back from the brink. So that's why she picked Chic to work on the "Diana" album later that year.

Motown did something unusual when "Diana" was prepping the release by putting out the album first. They basically waited to see which song got the most attention before putting its muscle behind it [[which turned out to be Upside Down). Whatever happened, it worked and Diana landed her first number one pop hit since "Love Hangover". Then "I'm Coming Out" hitting the top 5 probably gave Gordy some hope that Diana would rethink things over and re-sign with them since her contract was gonna expire in November 1980 but when the month came and went with no chance of renegotiation, panic set in.

By then, I doubt Motown was thinking of a third US single for the album. Diana wanted out.

[sup_fan]

Diana was red hot [[haha) in 80. once this lp exploded, she was pop royalty once again. had it not, i doubt she would have been tapped to do the movie theme It's My Turn. And then same with duetting with Lionel on Endless Love.

if she hadn't been tapped to do those two themes, I think Motown would have released a 3rd single from diana 80 in order to have something to leverage with negotiations. having a song that's doing reasonably well on the charts would just help motown's position [[although you're totally right that Diana was already mentally gone by then).

[TheMotownManiac]

I have a Boston Globe review by Ernie Santosuosso for a September 1980 show in Providence, RI. Diana was so hot at the time that the original two-night engagement was extended to four, with two shows on some nights.

The set list was basically the same as the HBO special shown earlier in the year, with many songs from THE BOSS.The reviewer mentioned UPSIDE DOWN and made note that it was a no. 1 single. He went on to say something like it was a nice vocal that she could have exploited but didn't. I don't know if he didn't like the way she sang it or if she didn't sing it at all. But I find it hard to believe that she didn't perform it all.

He also mentioned that after the show ended with ALL FOR ONE, Diana had "second thoughts" and remerged with "COMING OUT" but that a lot of audience members had already left.

Note: I found the actual review. See link below.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...lobe/33321279/

I like reading reviews like this because it shows the point of view of the non-diana ross fan. He doesn’t really care for her boys and he doesn’t really care for her repertoire and doesn’t really care for much. He puts pretty much have a negative slant on everything, including the title of the review and the fact that he finds it a negative that she came back after five minutes. He seems to be surprised that she got a standing ovation at all and tosses away her five minute return as with 1/3 of the audience already gone. That means that 2/3 of the audience was still standing there cheering , which he admits from his review. Certainly she didn’t go backstage, and after five minutes of silence, decide to come out and sing another song, but that is kind of what he leads one to believe. He refers to the Boss as disco drudge, evidently an idiot, he doesn’t care for.
for the record, I saw her in fall of 1980 and she performed both upside down and I’m coming out.

[sup_fan]

I like reading reviews like this because it shows the point of view of the non-diana ross fan. He doesn’t really care for her boys and he doesn’t really care for her repertoire and doesn’t really care for much. He puts pretty much have a negative slant on everything, including the title of the review and the fact that he finds it a negative that she came back after five minutes. He seems to be surprised that she got a standing ovation at all and tosses away her five minute return as with 1/3 of the audience already gone. That means that 2/3 of the audience was still standing there cheering , which he admits from his review. Certainly she didn’t go backstage, and after five minutes of silence, decide to come out and sing another song, but that is kind of what he leads one to believe. He refers to the Boss as disco drudge, evidently an idiot, he doesn’t care for.
for the record, I saw her in fall of 1980 and she performed both upside down and I’m coming out.

seems like the reviewer is restating some of the age-old complaints about motown artists. they've recorded such a broad range of music that trying to represent all of that in a stage show just makes for a rather disjointed experience. if you're a major fan you've either 1) heavily studied the artist's discography and so are well aware as to why such tunes are included or 2) you just don't care because you're a major fan and they can sing anything and you're thrilled.

he does seem to just personally dislike disco which in 1980 or so would have been a very safe public statement. at home he might still dance around to The Boss but he'd be horrified if anyone discovered.

with the new album, you could easily argue that it was time to revamp the show and focus on this new, urban sound rather than her old stuff. but there's just too much history with Diana Ross to exclude things like Mountain, the supremes, Lady, etc.

[reese]

seems like the reviewer is restating some of the age-old complaints about motown artists. they've recorded such a broad range of music that trying to represent all of that in a stage show just makes for a rather disjointed experience. if you're a major fan you've either 1) heavily studied the artist's discography and so are well aware as to why such tunes are included or 2) you just don't care because you're a major fan and they can sing anything and you're thrilled.

he does seem to just personally dislike disco which in 1980 or so would have been a very safe public statement. at home he might still dance around to The Boss but he'd be horrified if anyone discovered.

with the new album, you could easily argue that it was time to revamp the show and focus on this new, urban sound rather than her old stuff. but there's just too much history with Diana Ross to exclude things like Mountain, the supremes, Lady, etc.

Maybe he just had a bad day. I recall him giving Diana good reviews for her 1977, 1982, and 1984 Boston concerts.

[Albator]

I like reading reviews like this because it shows the point of view of the non-diana ross fan. He doesn’t really care for her boys and he doesn’t really care for her repertoire and doesn’t really care for much. He puts pretty much have a negative slant on everything, including the title of the review and the fact that he finds it a negative that she came back after five minutes. He seems to be surprised that she got a standing ovation at all and tosses away her five minute return as with 1/3 of the audience already gone. That means that 2/3 of the audience was still standing there cheering , which he admits from his review. Certainly she didn’t go backstage, and after five minutes of silence, decide to come out and sing another song, but that is kind of what he leads one to believe. He refers to the Boss as disco drudge, evidently an idiot, he doesn’t care for.
for the record, I saw her in fall of 1980 and she performed both upside down and I’m coming out.

Most of reviews were made by critics with POP/ROCK tastes and values.