On a scale of 1-10 , how much does having been a Supreme mean to Diana Ross?

[Boogiedown]

I think that's the way to ask it.

10 means: "I'd go back there in a minute"
6 means: warm and fuzzy memories
1 means: "don't even say that name around me"

The bad feelings toward the association were crystalized imo by this year's snub by her of The Supremes special Grammy , so I'll say

"2"

Not a "1" because even though Ross might insist she'd have made it all happen anyway .... enduring those loooong Supremes years gave her an internship that prepared her for the bigger goal: she must appreciate that.

What's your rating for her on this scale ?? With or without explanation ...

[marybrewster]

My first thought was a 2.

"She gave Mary the reign on the Supremes legacy" or whatever. Her accomplishments with the Supremes will always be greater than her solo career. Fight me on it, lol. I have no idea why she rarely acknowledges she was in the Supremes. Maybe she can't remember that far back?

On a more serious note though, I think Diana sees the group as a very small blip on a largely successful career. Yes, she was a Supreme for almost a decade, but that's on paper. Wouldn't you say that she was being groomed for solo stardom as early as 1966? She could have had two Lester's standing behind her for all I think she cared. She was driven at any cost to be a superstar. I bet it's lonely at the top, now that the kids are grown and out of the house.

[carlo]

I think Diana generally does not view her history with The Supremes in a positive light. In previous accounts, she has alluded to how it was a lot of hard work, she was not eating, she was under a tremendous amount of stress, how the other girls were 'talking about her behind her back, when her back was not even turned', etc., etc. She's put out these little tidbits over the years in her book, interviews, etc., but then the majority of the time, she tends to gloss it all over with a lot of fluffy language and generally says it was a wonderful period in her life. I think she talks like this to allow the public to continue to have their own positive memories of the group and their music, without continuing to further hash out the drama, like Mary did in her books. They were on such a whirlwind schedule throughout the 60's, that she would likely not remember a lot, other than being in and out of studios [much of the time without Mary, Flo, or Cindy], endless rehearsals, jet-setting to another country, or doing yet another show. Even Mary herself had to see a hypnotist to aid her with recalling her memories of the 1960's. I know Diana appreciates the genius and talent of HDH and The Supremes' hit songs [she inducted HDH into the Rock Hall], but then that's where it stops. It's clear that Diana never appeared to accept any awards for The Supremes, nor wanted to participate in any Supremes projects, because it would have meant having to be in the same room as Mary. After 1986, that was just not going to happen on Diana's watch.

To some extent, she also views herself as being bigger than the group itself, otherwise RTL would have never happened.

I will give a rating of 3.

[lakeside]

I agree with Carlo. I think he nailed it [[for me).

[Ollie9]

I think Diana generally does not view her history with The Supremes in a positive light. In previous accounts, she has alluded to how it was a lot of hard work, she was not eating, she was under a tremendous amount of stress, how the other girls were 'talking about her behind her back, when her back was not even turned', etc., etc. She's put out these little tidbits over the years in her book, interviews, etc., but then the majority of the time, she tends to gloss it all over with a lot of fluffy language and generally says it was a wonderful period in her life. I think she talks like this to allow the public to continue to have their own positive memories of the group and their music, without continuing to further hash out the drama, like Mary did in her books. They were on such a whirlwind schedule throughout the 60's, that she would likely not remember a lot, other than being in and out of studios [much of the time without Mary, Flo, or Cindy], endless rehearsals, jet-setting to another country, or doing yet another show. Even Mary herself had to see a hypnotist to aid her with recalling her memories of the 1960's. I know Diana appreciates the genius and talent of HDH and The Supremes' hit songs [she inducted HDH into the Rock Hall], but then that's where it stops. It's clear that Diana never appeared to accept any awards for The Supremes, nor wanted to participate in any Supremes projects, because it would have meant having to be in the same room as Mary. After 1986, that was just not going to happen on Diana's watch.

To some extent, she also views herself as being bigger than the group itself, otherwise RTL would have never happened.

I will give a rating of 3.

I think that sums it up nicely Carlo.

[mindful1]

Sad to acknowledge such a low rating but as usual Carlo has stated succinctly the reality of it all....

[marybrewster]

Perfectly said, Carlo.

[jobeterob]

I’ll go with 3

Overall, leaving her view of where it fits aside, I would say that part of her career is a little more - because of the cultural change they brought in those times and because of how hot they were on the charts. But the movies and Central Park and the headlining and the world wide accolades all came in her solo time- along with all the years

[carlo]

Thanks guys

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I think 'being a Supreme' rates much lower for Diane than 'being the star of the Supremes'. But both rating lower than 'being a star'.

[floyjoy678]

I agree Carlo. Diana didn't want to be near Mary when it really comes down to it. I know some might find this idea ridiculous but I truly believe Diana was intimidated by Mary as she grew older and more confident in herself. Gave her anxiety.

[BayouMotownMan]

I'll say 4, because the music still means something to her but that's about it. If she had her druthers she would want the public to believe all those Supremes hits were solos. And essentially, they were.

[reese]

I agree Carlo. Diana didn't want to be near Mary when it really comes down to it. I know some might find this idea ridiculous but I truly believe Diana was intimidated by Mary as she grew older and more confident in herself. Gave her anxiety.

In SECRETS OF A SPARROW, Diana did write that she no longer considered Mary a friend. I don't know if it was so much intimidation as it was deep hurt and a feeling of being betrayed by a friend. After Mary's two books and years of countless interviews that painted her in a less than favorable light, Diana had every right to distance herself. I would have done the same.

Because Diana doesn't talk much about her feelings, we can only guess. She probably felt that the achievement that was "THE SUPREMES" was tainted by Mary's actions. Plus it opened the door to other negative portrayals that persist to this day. I mean, you can't read a Facebook post or watch a YouTube clip without someone taking it to a negative place. And granted, there's enough to go around on either side. Diana has her haters as does Mary.

That said, I don't think that Diana dishonors her Supremes legacy. She has always done Supremes material in concert and in recent years, has done many songs full-length as opposed to medleys that some fans used to complain about. It would certainly be nice if she attended the events where they are honored or participated in the various reissues. I would love to hear her thoughts on the various releases and what memories they bring back. But she chooses not to do so and I respect her choice.

[lucky2012]

I'll say 4, because the music still means something to her but that's about it. If she had her druthers she would want the public to believe all those Supremes hits were solos. And essentially, they were.

I'll say 4, too. I agree very much with Carlo's thoughts, but I think Diana values the Supremes' music maybe more than Carlo thinks she does. Much of her experiences as a Supreme are another matter. I don't think she wants the public to believe the Supremes hits were solos, because DMF were a group, until DRATS.

[lucky2012]

In SECRETS OF A SPARROW, Diana did write that she no longer considered Mary a friend. I don't know if it was so much intimidation as it was deep hurt and a feeling of being betrayed by a friend. After Mary's two books and years of countless interviews that painted her in a less than favorable light, Diana had every right to distance herself. I would have done the same.

Because Diana doesn't talk much about her feelings, we can only guess. She probably felt that the achievement that was "THE SUPREMES" was tainted by Mary's actions. Plus it opened the door to other negative portrayals that persist to this day. I mean, you can't read a Facebook post or watch a YouTube clip without someone taking it to a negative place. And granted, there's enough to go around on either side. Diana has her haters as does Mary.

That said, I don't think that Diana dishonors her Supremes legacy. She has always done Supremes material in concert and in recent years, has done many songs full-length as opposed to medleys that some fans used to complain about. It would certainly be nice if she attended the events where they are honored or participated in the various reissues. I would love to hear her thoughts on the various releases and what memories they bring back. But she chooses not to do so and I respect her choice.

You are such a voice of reason in this forum, reese. Thank you for all the information you bring and your articulate thoughts and opinions.

[carlo]

Nicely said, Reese.

It's interesting talking about Diana's feelings towards her catalogue of music. It reminded me of when she was on HSN 5 years ago, promoting her Diamond Diana fragrance and Christmas CD compilation. HSN was playing audio clips from her Christmas collection and they had accidentally repeated The Supremes' version of "What the World Needs Now", instead of her solo recording. After the third time or so, of HSN playing the wrong version, she had politely pointed out that it was a different version that had been recorded in the 60's [I don't remember if she mentioned The Supremes or not]. However, she had said, "It's nice...I haven't heard it in a long time." She smiled and you could see she was listening. I wish the HSN host would have pursued that moment.

[reese]

Nicely said, Reese.

It's interesting talking about Diana's feelings towards her catalogue of music. It reminded me of when she was on HSN 5 years ago, promoting her Diamond Diana fragrance and Christmas CD compilation. HSN was playing audio clips from her Christmas collection and they had accidentally repeated The Supremes' version of "What the World Needs Now", instead of her solo recording. After the third time or so, of HSN playing the wrong version, she had politely pointed out that it was a different version that had been recorded in the 60's [I don't remember if she mentioned The Supremes or not]. However, she had said, "It's nice...I haven't heard it in a long time." She smiled and you could see she was listening. I wish the HSN host would have pursued that moment.

I remember that moment.

It made me think of her 1993 Billboard interview where Diana mentioned that in preparation for compiling her boxed set, she had someone from Motown [I forget her name] put all of the selections from her albums on tape for her to listen to. A nice side project would have been if she had written down her thoughts when listening to PLAY A SAD SONG or ANY GIRL IN LOVE or NO ONE'S GONNA BE A FOOL FOREVER. I mean if Babs can write an almost 1000-page book, surely Diana can.

[carlo]

That would have been great, Reese. I didn't realize she had done such an extensive listening session, in compiling the box set.

I am very much looking forward to Barbra's book. You made a good point, as Diana has always admired Barbra. Maybe seeing Barbra release such a comprehensive book will inspire her to revisit her own memoirs someday. We can only hope. I feel she has so much more to say, other than "I hide to see" [direct quote from Secrets of a Sparrow]. Lol.

[Boogiedown]

Looks like the range of opinion is in the 2-4 range.

So the consensus here is that at best Diana Ross endured her days as a Supreme .... or are there also opinions that those numbers are too low?

[jim aka jtigre99]

I would have to agree with much of what has been said. I would say either a 2 or 3. I think Miss Ross looks at her time as the lead singer of the Supremes as growth years leading to her solo career. The group were friends but I think the amount of work needed to become successful did not allow as much time to be friends as the early years did. Diana did work very hard at her career but always looked as the Supremes songs being her songs since she sang the lead. It was a stepping stone that served its purpose. I don't see her as being overly nostalgic over the Supremes but it is not as if she completely dismisses the group in her act. She sings the songs, she sang What I Did For Love in her old act and Missing You in her current act using her former group and its members. But I think she looks at all of it as a whole of her career.

[jobeterob]

I would have to agree with much of what has been said. I would say either a 2 or 3. I think Miss Ross looks at her time as the lead singer of the Supremes as growth years leading to her solo career. The group were friends but I think the amount of work needed to become successful did not allow as much time to be friends as the early years did. Diana did work very hard at her career but always looked as the Supremes songs being her songs since she sang the lead. It was a stepping stone that served its purpose. I don't see her as being overly nostalgic over the Supremes but it is not as if she completely dismisses the group in her act. She sings the songs, she sang What I Did For Love in her old act and Missing You in her current act using her former group and its members. But I think she looks at all of it as a whole of her career.

This is also a good synopsis of how she might feel