Meet The Supremes album discussion

[sup_fan]

it's been a while since we're really delved into this one. while i'm sure it's not any fan's favorite, we all seem to appreciate their early work, the growth they demonstrated.

this has to be one of the most varied albums, not just in terms of types of songs and sound but the overall performance of the group. it's a LONG way from I Want A Guy to Your Heart Belongs To Me.

and there are a LOT of interesting vault tunes that could have been included. not to mention the choices made for singles.

here's one interesting note - 9/13/62 is when the girls completed I'm Giving You Your Freedom. the MTS album wasn't released until Dec 62. so how on earth did they leave Freedom in the vault when they included some rather questionable tunes? For instance, the original tune lineup was to include The Boy That Got Away but it was dropped i believe for one of the new releases - either Time Changes Things or Let me Go the Right Way. but Boy is FAR inferior to any of the tunes recorded later by the group.

[reese]

MEET has its moments, YOUR HEART BELONGS TO ME, BUTTERED POPCORN, and TIME CHANGES THINGS amongst them.

I hardly ever play it but for a debut, it isn't too bad. I agree that FREEDOM should have been included. I would have added THOSE DJ SHOWS as well. But considering their chart history [or almost lack thereof] at that point, it is surprising that the group got an album release at all.

[BayouMotownMan]

I think The Boy That Got Away was a funky little ditty for its time. It stands in line with He Seventeen. Teeny bop.

I have a hard time listening to this lp as Ross is so shrill and nasal. I never listen to I Want A Guy, it is just too painful. What were they thinking when they issued this as a first single? To listen to this entire lp one would never guess this group and its lead singer would become superstars in just a few years.

If anything I would have left IWAG off the lp, it bombed anyway and it's just not a good production. As you said I'm Giving You Your Freedom would have been a wise inclusion as Ross is singing in a lower register and this began the Supremes/HDH marriage. Play A Sad Song and Never Again also have Ross sounding so nasal, it's just hard to listen to. You wouldn't know this was the same girl on Let Me Go The Right Way.

The lp was pulled off the market shortly after its initial release. That was wise.

[Motown Eddie]

here's one interesting note - 9/13/62 is when the girls completed I'm Giving You Your Freedom. the MTS album wasn't released until Dec 62. so how on earth did they leave Freedom in the vault when they included some rather questionable tunes?

Don't know why The Supremes' "I'm Giving You Your Freedom" was left off their debut LP [especially since the song was completed months before the album was released]. Anyway, "I'm Giving You Your Freedom" was included on the Where Did Our Love Go set in 1964.

[RanRan79]

It's a favorite of mine. With a critical ear, I would definitely call it an unusual hodgepodge of sounds. With the exception of "Your Heart" and "17", the Barbara cuts are so raw. "Who's Lovin' You" is an almost awful Diana vocal. Mary wrote about being disappointed that she wasn't given the lead on it and I don't blame her. I'm disappointed too because she would have done a far better job. "I Want a Guy" is hard to listen to, but honestly, IMO, it's not really because of the group. That track is...I don't know how to describe it. Nothing about the song really works. I've always thought if the arrangement was more like the version the Marvelettes did, that would have made for a more interesting song. Both "Who's" and "Guy" are as bad as the album gets for me.

But even the rawer songs showcase the more appealing sides of the group. "Baby Don't Go" has a nice lead from Mary. Not particularly a favorite of mine, but it's evidence to me that Mary was the voice Gordy should have utilized more to appeal to the public. She had a perfect girl group era sound. And the song comes across a bit more slick and sophisticated than "Guy" and "Who's". Contrast that sound with the gutsy, rougher approach of "Buttered Popcorn", a vocal performance neither Mary nor Diana could have pulled off. Even with "Popcorn" sounding like the least Supremes sounding song on the album, Flo's way with it, plus the bop of the track, make it one of my favs.

"Never Again" is a great vocal from Diana. The background harmony is surprisingly tighter than it normally is with Barbara in the mix. But Diana's approach to the song is gorgeous IMO and shows why her voice was appealing enough to warrant joining the group in the first place.

Of those early tunes, I think Mary and Diana could have really been interchangeable on most of them. By that I mean, either one of them would usually have worked. Neither of them could have done justice to "Buttered Popcorn".

The post Barbara tunes are really what shine on the album. Flo and Mary very quickly learned how to compliment each other without Barbara and it makes for my favorite backing combo in music. I love them on "Time Changes Things" and "Play A Sad Song". I love how all three of them can sound so upbeat on "Time" or "Memories", and then sound so sad and mournful on "Sad Song". The album really shows how great the group was at song interpretation even in those early days.

[RanRan79]

But considering their chart history [or almost lack thereof] at that point, it is surprising that the group got an album release at all.

I suspect that the group's appearance on the Motown tour had a lot to do with it. "Right Way" actually made it #26 on the R&B chart and it did slightly better than "Your Heart Belongs To Me" on both the Hot 100 and Cashbox. I suppose that the label might have wanted to capitalize off of whatever "popularity" the Supremes were getting as a result of their exposure on the tour. My guess anyway.

[RanRan79]

Regarding the outtakes, there's some good stuff there. Again, most of it very raw because it's that Barbara period. But I do think "Because I Love Him", "Too Hot" [[both versions), "Save Me a Star", "Heavenly Father", "You Can Depend On Me" are all pretty good. Mary would have been great on "Because I Love Him", "Save Me a Star" and "Heavenly Father". Flo was probably a better fit for "Too Hot" than Diana, IMO. I really don't care for any of the versions of "Hey Baby" and I don't think any of the ladies would have made me like them.

"Those DJ Shows" is a standout, IMO. From Diana's lead, to Flo and Mary's backing, to the band, I think if the girls hadn't been in school, it would have made for an interesting follow up to "Buttered Popcorn".

[sup_fan]

I might have done this for a song lineup

Your heart belongs to me
Let me go the right way
those dj shows
The tears
Hey baby
after all

Time changes things
I'm giving you your freedom
Heavenly father
Who's loving you
Play a sad song
You bring back memories

[marybrewster]

Didn't the Supremes [[as the Supremes) re-record "Tears of Sorrow" from their Lu-Pine days? And, was "My Heart Can't Take It No More" a part of the MTS recording sessions?

[sup_fan]

Didn't the Supremes [[as the Supremes) re-record "Tears of Sorrow" from their Lu-Pine days? And, was "My Heart Can't Take It No More" a part of the MTS recording sessions?

My Heart and Breathtaking were both recorded on 12/28 and the album was released on 12/9

but yes, i think you're right about Tears of Sorrow but interesting that they didn't rerecord Pretty Baby

[RanRan79]

Diana sounds even more lifeless on the re-record of "Sorrow" than she does on the first version, and yet I still like it. Lol The re-record sounds like a rehearsal and somebody pulled out a recorder. I wonder if this was a song Diana recorded in the bathroom and the girls were in the hall? Flo is coming through loud and clear. Lol

[sup_fan]

i've always wondered who is actually singing the backgrounds on 17. they sound so different from anything else. I wonder if the Rayber Voices are added to the track. or if others have joined in with F, M and B.

[RanRan79]

i've always wondered who is actually singing the backgrounds on 17. they sound so different from anything else. I wonder if the Rayber Voices are added to the track. or if others have joined in with F, M and B.

I can hear Flo and Mary, but not sure I'm picking up Barbara. I also believe Raynoma is singing with the girls. It's possible that Raynoma replaced Barbara altogether, and the reason why Barbara has the speaking part is to give her a consolation prize. There's also the possibility that with Raynoma producing the song, that she, being a female singer herself, and is said to have had perfect pitch, had a better read on how to make the group sound more cohesive, if indeed Barbara is singing too.

[gman]

I am not a huge fan of Meet....it is along with the Webb LP the one I like the least amount of tracks on, [[Meet 3, JW 2) and seldom play...

Your Heart Belongs To Me is one of the great early Motown cha cha's....Time Changes Things and Let Me Go The Right Way are great early songs that show a developing group sound...the rest?...ehhh....

I'm Giving You Your Freedom is another great early Motown cha cha...it is one of my fav Supremes songs...I love the lyrics...Your Kiss of Fire is the dog on the WDOLG Lp for me [[I don't despise it, its just my least fav on the LP) and sounds more like a MEET cut......I like My Heart Can't Take it No More.. and CW&P along with WDOLG are the only 2 DR led LPS in my top 5 Supremes favs. [[Touch, High Energy, WDOLG?, CW&P, Floy Joy)

[sup_fan]

out of the original MTS tracks, the ones i like and listen to the most are:

you bring back memories
let me go the right way
your heart belongs to me
time changes things
he's seventeen
play a sad song

the rest are really not my favorites. sometimes i'll spin the album just for a change of sound and pace.

on WDOLG i've really grown to appreciate Freedom. it's really quite beautiful and the vocals by all 3 girls are stellar. Fire is a fun one and again, strong vocals. He Means the World To Me is probably IMO the weakest track besides Run. i'm also not a huge fan of Crossroads as I don't like the super high range on Diana on it

[lucky2012]

My favorite original MTS tracks:
Your Heart Belongs to Me
Buttered Popcorn
You Bring Back Memories
Time Changes Things

I can't stand Who's Loving You & I Want a Guy [but I do like the EE version that is essentially a Diana Ross solo.]

Favorite EE tracks:
The Tears
Those DJ Shows
After All

I'm Giving You Your Freedom is one of my all-time favorite Supremes tracks. I especially love the guitar work at the end, but "Everything is good about it".

I really don't like Run, Run, Run & Standing at The Crossroads on WDOLG. The rest of the album is fine by me.

[sup_fan]

the EE version of IWAG is a LOT better lol although it's still pretty bad

After All is IMO one of the strongest of the very early tunes. that annoying flute on Guy is dreadful and the operatic "i-i-i-i want a guy" lol

[jim aka jtigre99]

It's a favorite of mine. With a critical ear, I would definitely call it an unusual hodgepodge of sounds. With the exception of "Your Heart" and "17", the Barbara cuts are so raw. "Who's Lovin' You" is an almost awful Diana vocal. Mary wrote about being disappointed that she wasn't given the lead on it and I don't blame her. I'm disappointed too because she would have done a far better job. "I Want a Guy" is hard to listen to, but honestly, IMO, it's not really because of the group. That track is...I don't know how to describe it. Nothing about the song really works. I've always thought if the arrangement was more like the version the Marvelettes did, that would have made for a more interesting song. Both "Who's" and "Guy" are as bad as the album gets for me.

But even the rawer songs showcase the more appealing sides of the group. "Baby Don't Go" has a nice lead from Mary. Not particularly a favorite of mine, but it's evidence to me that Mary was the voice Gordy should have utilized more to appeal to the public. She had a perfect girl group era sound. And the song comes across a bit more slick and sophisticated than "Guy" and "Who's". Contrast that sound with the gutsy, rougher approach of "Buttered Popcorn", a vocal performance neither Mary nor Diana could have pulled off. Even with "Popcorn" sounding like the least Supremes sounding song on the album, Flo's way with it, plus the bop of the track, make it one of my favs.

"Never Again" is a great vocal from Diana. The background harmony is surprisingly tighter than it normally is with Barbara in the mix. But Diana's approach to the song is gorgeous IMO and shows why her voice was appealing enough to warrant joining the group in the first place.

Of those early tunes, I think Mary and Diana could have really been interchangeable on most of them. By that I mean, either one of them would usually have worked. Neither of them could have done justice to "Buttered Popcorn".

The post Barbara tunes are really what shine on the album. Flo and Mary very quickly learned how to compliment each other without Barbara and it makes for my favorite backing combo in music. I love them on "Time Changes Things" and "Play A Sad Song". I love how all three of them can sound so upbeat on "Time" or "Memories", and then sound so sad and mournful on "Sad Song". The album really shows how great the group was at song interpretation even in those early days.

I would have to agree that at this time Mary and Diana could both have done any of those songs and did them well enough. Florence really rocked on Buttered Popcorn and I don't think Diana or Mary would have done the song justice. Granted, the lyrics are basically nonsense but Flo did a great job. I think on an interview Mary said that when Berry chose Diana they were like great she was one of us and we loved her voice and whatever it would take to make us stars but then later both Mary and Flo realized they were never going to sing lead-not on a B-side of a record or on an album cut.
Mary did have that plaintive cry in her voice that the girl groups of that day utilized. It is no wonder one of the Hollands considered her for the lead on Where Did Our Love Go. Diana's constant lead singing really helped develop her into a much better vocalist than witnessed on MTS. On the other hand, not singing lead seemed to hamper Flo and Mary-sometimes Flo would be slightly off pitch and Mary no longer sang with her strong plaintive cry in her voice-once she started more leads in the 70's it seemed her confidence and command returned.

[sup_fan]

I would have to agree that at this time Mary and Diana could both have done any of those songs and did them well enough. Florence really rocked on Buttered Popcorn and I don't think Diana or Mary would have done the song justice. Granted, the lyrics are basically nonsense but Flo did a great job. I think on an interview Mary said that when Berry chose Diana they were like great she was one of us and we loved her voice and whatever it would take to make us stars but then later both Mary and Flo realized they were never going to sing lead-not on a B-side of a record or on an album cut.
Mary did have that plaintive cry in her voice that the girl groups of that day utilized. It is no wonder one of the Hollands considered her for the lead on Where Did Our Love Go. Diana's constant lead singing really helped develop her into a much better vocalist than witnessed on MTS. On the other hand, not singing lead seemed to hamper Flo and Mary-sometimes Flo would be slightly off pitch and Mary no longer sang with her strong plaintive cry in her voice-once she started more leads in the 70's it seemed her confidence and command returned.

i think Hey Baby was a stronger tune for Flo although i don't know if they worked enough on it. there are so many versions of Popcorn. but like you said, the lyrics were nonsense but she does have a strong delivery on it. i think had they put a little more work into Hey Baby and given her a few more times to perfect her lead, it would have been a much stronger tune compared to Popcorn

Mary's early vocals are very teenage in my opinion. a very talented teenager. but she doesn't quite grasp the nuances and interpretation of the tune. she shines marvelously on the ends of the choruses when she sings "still... your baby" just wonderful. but the rest of the lead singing is very straight and flat [[not in pitch but in interpretation). pretty much every note is just sung in the exact same way, same intensity, same volume, same vibrato, etc. And i say teenager because that's no uncommon for younger singers. they have the singing technique but haven't quite mastered interpretation yet.

[daviddh]

I got this shortly after WDOLG and was severely disappointed...what a mess...
I like Buttered Popcorn and Let Me Go The Right Way but ,actually after hearing the expanded Meet and WDOLG.
Love Mr Blues

[daviddh]

now you did it, had to go and have a refresher listen..album seems thrown together
my picks are
buttered popcorn
your heart belongs to me , stereo version 1
let me go the right way
baby dont go
bring back memories
time changes things
17
after all
the tears
you can depend on me
boy that got away
dj shows

[jobeterob]

I remember reading somewhere, perhaps the liner notes for the EE, that the solo I Want A Guy, gave an early glimpse of what was to come from Diana Ross. It was one of the songs I preferred or could stand along with Your Heart Belongs To Me and Those DJ Shows. Buttered Popcorn and Let Me Go The Right Way are very weak songs - neither song is much and the vocals are nothing but basic - they are just modest girl group songs but there isn’t much to the song itself.

[lucky2012]

I remember reading somewhere, perhaps the liner notes for the EE, that the solo I Want A Guy, gave an early glimpse of what was to come from Diana Ross. It was one of the songs I preferred or could stand along with Your Heart Belongs To Me and Those DJ Shows. Buttered Popcorn and Let Me Go The Right Way are very weak songs - neither song is much and the vocals are nothing but basic - they are just modest girl group songs but there isn’t much to the song itself.

Exactly! It was fascinating to me to hear this as a first "solo" recording. It didn't quite make up for Who's Loving You and the released I Want A Guy but the Diana Ross voice emerged more fully-formed the next year with Your Heart Belongs To Me. That song & Buttered Popcorn were two instant likes when I first heard Meet The Supremes.

I like Buttered Popcorn for Florence's vocal, but also, it's a fun girl group ditty that for some [and I'm one] can also have an "R" rated meaning. [I don't know Berry Gordy's intent, but he always did want to please a wider audience ]

[daviddh]

personally, i would have never released this album as is and i prefer the Country album as far as song content and vocals... i would have tweaked the country album to include Let Me Go and Buttered Popcorn and released it as Meet .
the material is just to week to me but there are some bright spots .
But i also would have never released Liverpool, unless the Funk Brothers were envolved,.they were not obviously. and really ,dont think we needed the Same Cooke collection but there are a few tracks i like.
personally i would have released There's a Place For Us,and included a few from each,
shake,change is gonna come,you really got a hold on me

[RanRan79]

On the other hand, not singing lead seemed to hamper Flo and Mary

I think a lot of people don't realize that singing ability may be natural for singers, but the voice is like an instrument. There are people who can sit down to a piano and for the first time tinker out a tune because they just have that gift. But in order for them to grow as a pianist, or guitarist, or saxophonist, etc., they have to practice at it. Florence and Mary had natural singing ability and became perfect backing vocalists because they honed that skilled by constantly playing that role. Same for Diana, she had natural singing ability and became a perfect lead singer because she was constantly honing that skill. Very few vocalists lack imperfection, IMO, Diana included.

I have to point out that, although Florence wasn't singing lead regularly in the studio, her "People" was a near constant in the act from 1964 thru most of 1966, so it wasn't like her voice wasn't getting any exercise as a lead. IMO, the version heard- even as a snippet- in the Orient video is the best vocal on it that she had given up to that point, perhaps evidence that singing it over and over, similar to how well Mary ultimately sounded in the last stage of "Can't Take My Eyes" after singing it over and over, was practice making perfect. And of course, Flo was able to leave the group and secure a record deal with a major record label. So whatever weaknesses she had as a singer, they weren't enough to turn the industry off.

[RanRan79]

Love Mr Blues

"Mr. Blues" is one of the best things the original trio ever recorded, IMO. Perfect example of why I love them as a group.

[RanRan79]

I remember reading somewhere, perhaps the liner notes for the EE, that the solo I Want A Guy, gave an early glimpse of what was to come from Diana Ross. It was one of the songs I preferred or could stand along with Your Heart Belongs To Me and Those DJ Shows. Buttered Popcorn and Let Me Go The Right Way are very weak songs - neither song is much and the vocals are nothing but basic - they are just modest girl group songs but there isn’t much to the song itself.

Diana tore "Let Me Go the Right Way" up. [[And Flo and Mary were kicking butt in the back.)

[RanRan79]

The demo version of "Guy" is only slightly better than the released version, and IMO that's because the track is slightly different. Some of the annoying things about the released track isn't present in the demo. But as it relates to Diana's vocal, it pretty much sounds exactly like she did the released version, only in the demo you get to hear her voice more clearly because of the absence of most everything else in the released version, including the backing vocals. I still think she did a far better job on "Never Again" than she did on this demo.

[jobeterob]

Exactly! It was fascinating to me to hear this as a first "solo" recording. It didn't quite make up for Who's Loving You and the released I Want A Guy but the Diana Ross voice emerged more fully-formed the next year with Your Heart Belongs To Me. That song & Buttered Popcorn were two instant likes when I first heard Meet The Supremes.

I like Buttered Popcorn for Florence's vocal, but also, it's a fun girl group ditty that for some [and I'm one] can also have an "R" rated meaning. [I don't know Berry Gordy's intent, but he always did want to please a wider audience ]

I also recall reading that Diana was 14 or 15 when that version of I Want A Guy was recorded

[RanRan79]

I also recall reading that Diana was 14 or 15 when that version of I Want A Guy was recorded

She was 16.

[sup_fan]

I remember reading somewhere, perhaps the liner notes for the EE, that the solo I Want A Guy, gave an early glimpse of what was to come from Diana Ross. It was one of the songs I preferred or could stand along with Your Heart Belongs To Me and Those DJ Shows. Buttered Popcorn and Let Me Go The Right Way are very weak songs - neither song is much and the vocals are nothing but basic - they are just modest girl group songs but there isn’t much to the song itself.

i agree that Let Me Go is a weak song in terms of lyrics. the track is pretty solid and the girls' performances are strong. they're definitely making the best of a song that isn't much. it's just a bit too odd of lyric that just really don't make perfect sense

BP is really just a disaster IMO. i guess it could be a take on Mashed Potato. but it could also have a raunchier interpretation. it just doesn't have the charm of Mashed [[which is pretty much a rip off of Postman).