Single release dates in 1964.

[BobbyC]

I've got a question for all you Supremes Fans. I am reviewing old Cashbox and Record World magazines, and observed something I don't quite understand. Why did Motown release Come See About Me when Baby Love was still in the Top 5 in the Pop charts? They did the same thing with Where Did Our Love Go---they released Baby Love before WDOLG left the Top 10. Was this a strategy? It seems to me that doing this would cut into sales of the first single, right? I think Motown stopped doing this by 1965. Can anyone explain?

[reese]

COME SEE ABOUT ME was rush-released because Nella Dodds came out [or was coming out] with a cover version on Scepter, see #67 on the chart above.

[BobbyC]

Right- but teh same thing happened with Baby Love.

[reese]

Right- but teh same thing happened with Baby Love.

Not quite.

BABY LOVE was released almost three months after WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, whereas COME SEE ABOUT ME was released a month after BABY LOVE.

[BobbyC]

My point is that WDOLG was still in the top ten when Baby was released and it sped up the charts faster than WDOLG did. I know, I just saw the chart this morning

[gman]

In the 60's artists on major labels released singles very quickly...seems many were on a 8 week release schedule...once a record peaked, when it dropped even a small amount another single was rushed out...although it was more common to wait for the previous record to drop out of the top 10...they were careful if a record was still climbing not to release another.....Come See About Me may have been a big exception [[like Love Hangover) rushed quickly due to a competitive version....a very successful TV performance of the song could cause a rush release too back then.
I have seen earlier charts from the 50's...seems regularly there were more than 2 competing versions of the same song listed below the song title....You Belong To Me comes to mind.
The charts from '64 amaze me....the Beatles had songs from 5 different labels on the chart at the same time [[Capitol, Tollie, VeeJay, Swan, MGM)...but that was the Beatles, and it was by far the wildest craze in American music chart documentation.

[BobbyC]

Interesting, GMan. Same thing happened with the 5th Dimension. Their first single did okay [[Go Where You Wanna Go), but then the Johnny Mann singers released their version of Up Up and Away as a single. So the 5th had to rush release their version, and they won!!

[BayouMotownMan]

When you have momentum on an act you release singles in quick succession to keep that act on the radio thus increasing lp sales and booking prices. You got more for an act when they had a current top hit.

Twice in Diana's career did Motown release two singles at the same time. As Baby Love was soaring up the charts, Motown learned that Nella Dodds had done an almost duplicate recording of Come See About Me from the WDOLG lp. It was always planned to release CSAM as the third single from the lp but Gordy rush=released it so as to thwart Nella Dodds. It worked.

Again in 1976 when the Diana Ross lp was released Motown followed Theme From Mahogany with another Michael Masser sure=fire hit, I Thought It Took A Little Time. Although the single was off and running just fine, disco clubs were playing Love Hangover off the lp, which was intended to be the next single. However, the 5th Dimension rush=released their version of Love Hangover much to Diana's ire. She called Gordy and demanded Masser's single be pulled in favor of Love Hangover which was the one she wanted issued anyway. Gordy agreed. Ross's original version became a giant hit while the 5th Dimension's version faded quickly with little notice. Diana Ross was very vocal about her dismay of what the 5th Dimension did, saying "They are a good group but let them get their own record and leave mine alone."

As punishment to the 5th Dimension, Gordy signed them to a record deal with Motown. Issued two pretty good lps and only two singles off those lps in total. The group had been struggling to re-invent themselves after losing two important members. They were also crippled by new members staying on for only a year or so, then leaving, making them inconsistent. It was obvious Motown was sabotaging the act. They were soon dropped and any hopes of a comeback for the 5th Dimension sans Billy Davis and Marilyn McCoo were killed.

Berry Gordy and Diana Ross were fiercely competitve and also protective of their product.

[BobbyC]

Hi Bayou--so you are saying you think releasing a second single when the first was still in the top 5, sometimes #1, was a strategy? I agree but at the same time I think I would have waited until the first single fell out of the top 10 to release another. Oh well. The strategy worked, obviously. Another thing I noticed in the run of 1964/1965, was that the #1 singles like Come See About Me, didn't stay at #1 for more than a week or two.
I know all about the Love Hangover rush release! I loved the 5th's version too, and have posted previously that Love Hangover by Ross was already a huge hit in discos before it got released as a single. I know--I've seen the charts!! People make a big deal out of the fact that both the 5th's single and Diana's version hit the pop charts at the same time, but fail to mention DR's take was getting tons of play in the clubs before any single release by either entity.
I loved Star Dancing, by the way. Did you know there are two versions of Going Through the Motions available? I think we talked about this a while ago. Interesting that Terri Bryant wasn't sure if Marjorie Barnes did a take on it, but said one sounded "more like Marjorie's style" than hers. So maybe Marjorie did one right before she left the group, but it got scrapped for Terri's version when Marjorie announced her plan to bail. Terri's was definitely the one released on Star Dancing, but there is still that mystery version still floating around out there. A Good Love was another strong Terri ballad.

[gman]

The Mama's and Papa's released GO WHERE YOU WANNA GO as their debut single before the 5ths...but I think I read it was squashed once issued to rush release California Dreamin'....for a group that was only together for a bit over 2 years, the Mama's and Papa's made a lot of excellent music....the 5th had some excellent B side's...Lovin' Stew, Dont'cha Hear Me Callin' To Ya were my favs...supposedly they were to release a LP in July...and there was nothing suitable in the can and no time to record a new LP...so the B sides and some early singles that were left off their previous Greatest Hits LP were pooled to make the LP issued as "The July 5th" LP.

Depends on a lot of things...is there something else in the can that's also a sure hit? Double sided singles often resulted in split air play, and a lower chart position for both sides...it sometimes worked...Beatles Come Together/Something, Carole Kings It's Too Late/ I Feel The Earth Move and Rod Stewarts Maggie May / Reason to Believe....

Connie Francis and Brenda Lee scored double top 10 hits...Connie in '59 with Lipstick On Your Collar #5 / Frankie #9 and Brenda in '60 with I'm Sorry #1 / That's All You Gotta Do #6...but both had several double A side releases in the following years that only charted in the lower top 40 due to split airplay....

Motown cranked out a few...Marvelettes Locking Up My Heart/Forever and Marvin Gaye- Mary Wells duet Once Upon A Time /What's The Matter With You Baby come to mind...some labels did double A side promo copies to prevent split airplay of new singles....others were clearly marked PLUG SIDE. I had several 70's promo's that had a Mono mix on one side and a Stereo Mix on the other....or a full version on one side and a edit on the other.

[BobbyC]

GMan wowsee wow wow--I always wondered about where that odd title July 5th Album came from!! I mean, what does July have to do with anything? Hee hee! Now I know! I love obscure trivia like that! Have you seen the live clip of the 5th Dimension singing Doncha Hear Me Calling To Ya at the Summer of Love show? They frikkin' crush it live!

Man. after reviewing these old trade magazines, it is shocking how exploitative these record companies were if a band got hot. The 5th, who'd only been recording for two years and change, put out four or five compilations/Greatest Hits albums after Aquarius sent them into the stratosphere. Two years later, in 1972, the group had run its course.
And look at how many albums the Supremes put out from 1964-1969! How did they have time to record all that stuff?

[BayouMotownMan]

The Supremes often recorded on the run with producers flying into whatever city they were performing in and getting at least Ross or Terrell into a studio to lay over vocals. Sometimes Mary and Flo would also record with Ross but as they got busier, less attention was paid to the backing vocalists. Mary and Flo would put down their supporting vocals later or if time was limited, the Andantes or "whomever" would do backgrounds.

I have most of the 5th Dimension and Mama's and Papa's material. The 5th were excellent and they have a lost hit record in Black Patch. Perhaps the theme of the song was deemed to controversial for radio airplay.

I just finished reading All The Leaves Are Brown, a bio on the Mama's and Papa's. What a hot mess they were despite all that glorious music. Cass Elliott was no doubt the star of the act and John Phillips treated her with disdain, was actually cruel to her. After reading this and MacKenzie Phillips bio and some other books I appreciate John Phillips' talent but have no respect for the man whatsoever.

[BobbyC]

Ohhh goody! Now I know the next book I'm gonna read--All The Leaves Are Brown!! I just finished up Jerry Butler's memoirs so I'm ready to roll.

Can't say I agree about Black Patch. I liked the song and they did a great job singing it but I never thought it was single material. The 5th saw a STEEP decline in record sales on Individually and Collectively, which was odd seeing as though the record had two Top Ten hits on it. Marilyn told me herself that Individually and Collectively marked the beginning of the end for them, in terms of sales. Sad but nothing lasts forever. The group was having some epic battles with Clive Davis around this time. he wanted Marilyn to do all leads and this led to infighting--even billy complained about all the Marilyn leads. He thought the public was just bored with the "same old sound." He wanted to go more R&B but Clive wanted nothing to do with it. The group was also having problems with Bones Howe, and he left after the next album failed. The 5th Dimension's single Harlem was an attempt at a danceable, more R&B sound. Despite great reviews, radio DJ's sent smashed copies of the 45 to Bell records, one saying "this was not the 5th Dimension we know." So once again, a group gets to the point where things are no longer working, but what to do? How to change? The 70's Supremes had the same problem.

[bradsupremes]

Ohhh goody! Now I know the next book I'm gonna read--All The Leaves Are Brown!! I just finished up Jerry Butler's memoirs so I'm ready to roll.

Can't say I agree about Black Patch. I liked the song and they did a great job singing it but I never thought it was single material. The 5th saw a STEEP decline in record sales on Individually and Collectively, which was odd seeing as though the record had two Top Ten hits on it. Marilyn told me herself that Individually and Collectively marked the beginning of the end for them, in terms of sales. Sad but nothing lasts forever. The group was having some epic battles with Clive Davis around this time. he wanted Marilyn to do all leads and this led to infighting--even billy complained about all the Marilyn leads. He thought the public was just bored with the "same old sound." He wanted to go more R&B but Clive wanted nothing to do with it. The group was also having problems with Bones Howe, and he left after the next album failed. The 5th Dimension's single Harlem was an attempt at a danceable, more R&B sound. Despite great reviews, radio DJ's sent smashed copies of the 45 to Bell records, one saying "this was not the 5th Dimension we know." So once again, a group gets to the point where things are no longer working, but what to do? How to change? The 70's Supremes had the same problem.

It didn't help that Individually and Collectively had a horrendous album cover. An awful photo of the group with a title slapped on the top and all in black and white. Seriously, did they run out of color in the printers?? Nothing appealing about it whatsoever. It looked like it was done on a cheap budget and took 10 minutes to create. Could it have been done on purpose to sabotage the sales??

[jobeterob]

Ohhh goody! Now I know the next book I'm gonna read--All The Leaves Are Brown!! I just finished up Jerry Butler's memoirs so I'm ready to roll.

Can't say I agree about Black Patch. I liked the song and they did a great job singing it but I never thought it was single material. The 5th saw a STEEP decline in record sales on Individually and Collectively, which was odd seeing as though the record had two Top Ten hits on it. Marilyn told me herself that Individually and Collectively marked the beginning of the end for them, in terms of sales. Sad but nothing lasts forever. The group was having some epic battles with Clive Davis around this time. he wanted Marilyn to do all leads and this led to infighting--even billy complained about all the Marilyn leads. He thought the public was just bored with the "same old sound." He wanted to go more R&B but Clive wanted nothing to do with it. The group was also having problems with Bones Howe, and he left after the next album failed. The 5th Dimension's single Harlem was an attempt at a danceable, more R&B sound. Despite great reviews, radio DJ's sent smashed copies of the 45 to Bell records, one saying "this was not the 5th Dimension we know." So once again, a group gets to the point where things are no longer working, but what to do? How to change? The 70's Supremes had the same problem.

That’s when the group and their fans start to blame everyone in sight especially the record company but they never blame themselves

[BobbyC]

I loved that album cover!! To me, the whole black and white thing was an artistic touch that set it apart!

Jobete I think you're wrong on that. The 5th Dimension NEVER complained [[publicly, anyway)about Bell records and how they handled the group. They should have, IMO, but they were too classy to air their dirty laundry. I only found out about the clashes with Clive Davis through people like Florez and Howe.I think the 5th got caught up in the whole attitude at the time-- that they were Vegas style "sell outs," which Mary Wilson complained about in Dreamgirl. In the 60's, playing Vegas or the Copa was a huge coup for a black group, but by the turn of decade, a lot of people viewed playing those venues as square. I remember being embarrassed by their TV specials. That "We are ladies" skit still makes me cringe.
Anyway...

[BayouMotownMan]

Great info BobbyC on the 5th Dimension. Always loved the group but wondered what the heck happened so fast, their downfall seemed overnight.

A while back their Earthbound lp was reissued on CD. There was an online interview with Marilyn McCoo about the group infighting at the time and she had to turn away from the camera and cry. I always felt she got the full blame for the group's downfall because as time went on everything seem geared toward focusing on her.

I remember an episode they did of It Takes A Thief with Robert Wagner around 1970. Marilyn was definitely shown as the star of the group. There was a lot of anxiety about one scene when Wagner and McCoo close in for a kiss and got interrupted...their lips never met. Stations in the south were unhappy about this.

After Davis and McCoo left some people I talked to said Florence was difficult to work with. Their members kept changing.

After I did the E Shows on Diana and Florence, some guy reached out to me by email asking me for Scherrie Payne's contact information, that supposedly Florence LaRue wanted Scherrie for some dates. Scherrie was not interested however and was with the FLOs.

Terri Bryant was excellent in Marilyn's place but I am hearing that she has recently passed? Anybody have info on this.

Don't know if anybody knows it but Ron Townson approached Jean Terrell to replace McCoo. Jean shot that down fast. Can you imagine if she had taken the job...and recorded Love Hangover instead of Florence?

[BobbyC]

"great info, BobbyC."

That compliment made my day, coming from my hero Bayoumotownman!! I am happy and fluffy now!

Regarding my favorite 5th album by far, Earthbound: I saw the original 5th Dimension reunion show and got to sit down and talk with the group afterwards, although I had to talk to each individually. This was 1996, I think. Once I got Marilyn alone, I informed her that Earthbound was the 5th's most loved album amongst the fans, next to Magic Garden and she got this look on her face like what was I talking about? At the time, I had no idea about the hard feelings during the recording of Earthbound. Marilyn looked like she thought I was full of chit, but I told her that if you go through the online comments on various videos or chat rooms/forums, you'd clearly see that ALL the fans who knew the record loved it. She said "really?' Marilyn looked suspicious of me or my intentions, but really I was just astonished that she seemed down on that record. Years later I learned why.
First off, Billy and Marilyn were not even aware that plans had been made by their manager to cut Earthbound. After the complete failure of Soul and Inspiration [[Bones Howe quit producing that record halfway through, and the group members finished up the producing chores), Marilyn and Billy wanted to take time off, clear their heads, maybe come up with a new plan, and all that. Next thing you know, M and B learned that the group was obligated to do a new record with Jimmy Webb for ABC.

Turns out, ABC only signed them under the condition they do the album with Jimmy Webb. Unfortunately, the group had already promised that job to John Florez, who produced their last single No Love In the Room. They ended up having to suck it up and tell John that they were going to record with Webb. The rest is history.
Meanwhile, Florence LaRue was hitched to the group's manager, Marc Gordon. If you look carefully, Florence had a solo spot on every album since 1970, when they switched over to Bell/Arista. This was no accident and it sure as hell wasn't a coincidence. Billy and Marilyn, on the other hand, felt that THEY were the lead singers. At this same time, Ron was also demanding more solos, but his voice was operatic and pretty--it was not a pop voice. Producers couldn't find material for him, with a few minor exceptions. The tension was building and it didn't seem like anybody was happy.

Sooo off to ABC they went to do Earthbound. And who got the lead on the first single? For the first time, it was Florence. Magic In My Life. The record flopped completely and there was zero "buzz" around the album. Nobody cared anymore, it seemed.

After that bomb, Marilyn and Billy told Marc they were leaving the group. Marilyn initially [[I'm sure this will surprise a lot of people) didn't want to go, it was mostly Billy who wanted to move on and try something new. Florence claimed she "had no inkling" that Billy and Marilyn were so unhappy that they wanted to leave! I find that a bit hard to believe.

So Billy and M were gone, and Marc Gordon got ABC to allow the new 5th dimension to record a new single and album [[Love Hangover and the album was going to be named Home Cooking), but when Love Hangover failed, ABC shelved Home Cooking [[the tracks later showed up on a bootleg "live" album in the 90's). Marc, who used to work at Motown, got the revamped 5th a deal at Motown.

Their first record for Motown was Star Dancing, which IMo was a great album, but Motown released the single You Are the Reason I Feel Like Dancing and it tanked. It was IMO a completely mediocre song, probably the weakest song on the record, but guess who was on lead again? Florence. Are we starting to see a pattern here?

Take a look at the 5th's Wikipedia page where it lists all the various Marilyn/Billy replacements and tell me what you see. The Marilyn replacements, most of them, were lucky to last a year. Florence felt she deserved to be the lead singer but not everyone agreed with that assertion. Connect the dots.

I am the Greek God of useless information.

[BayouMotownMan]

No Bobby this pretty much goes with all the info I heard about the group. Florence was a bit happy that Marilyn was leaving for the obvious reason. Marilyn however was a trained singer and Florence was not and it shows. Florence's voice was all wrong for You Are The Reason I Feel Like Dancing.

The first lady to replace Marilyn was Eloise Laws. I saw her debut and farewell all in one performance, on the Tonight Show hosted by John Davidson that night. Florence introduced Eloise and Danny Beard as the new members and declared that all was well and they were still friends with Marilyn and Billy. Few believed that.

Eloise Laws was awful. She just stood at the mike like a cardboard mannequin and was totally unprofessional and ill-rehearsed. She was fired shortly after. Then Marjorie Barnes then Terri Bryant. After Terri I lost track of the ladies.

Florence LaRue is deeply religious to the point that I think it interferes with logic.

[BobbyC]

If you think Florence's voice was wrong for You Are the Reason, try You're My Star from High On Sunshine. I knew it was all over for the new 5th when I heard that song. How it ever even saw the light of day is beyond me. The only "Marilyn Replacement" past Terri Bryant that I remembered was Joyce Pierce. She is about the sweetest person currently walking the earth.

By the way, I was the guy who told you [[a few months ago) that Terri Bryant might have died. I used to talk to her online every once in a while. Fast forward to today, and some guy contacted me saying he used to be good friends with Terri, and had heard she died. He was basically asking me to confirm, but I didn't know. So I went back to my old discussions with Terri and the last one occurred in 2016 and she's had no further online presence that I can find.

[gman]

I loved Blowin' Away...it is my fav 5th song....followed by The Girls Song and The Worst That Could Happen/Wedding Bell Blues medley...I like Carpet Man...Loves Lines Angles and Rhymes is deep...relaxing beginning with building tension...good record...Never My Love is beautiful.

Sometimes the 5th's recording of The Declaration of Independence is overlooked....it was very popular in NYC and received a lot of AM airplay...I had that PORTRAIT LP....Billy's version of Feelin' Alright is my fav of the many out there....the FLO's version isn't bad at all....I think Lynda sings lead....I hated Last Night I Didn't Get to Sleep and remember it was on the radio the same time as Song Sung Blue by Neil Diamond...hated that one too...2 songs from entertainers I enjoyed up til that time ...songs that I still despise to this day....good time to bring up Time and Love and Love The One You're With...hate them by anyone...

[BobbyC]

Hi G! I HATED Last Night too! My friends mocked Marilyn's ridiculously thespian "Ohhh nooo's" back in grade school and I was embarrassed for liking the group. That song was originally intended for the Carpenters but they said no. I wish they'd said yes. Bones fought hard to have that song on Individually and Collectively!

[BayouMotownMan]

Aside from all this I was so disappointed in Marilyn and Billy's summer replacement series on CBS. Was it 76 or 77? I think there were four shows and then it was yanked. The opener had them do a song and then the corniest dialogue with Billy giving Marilyn a rose, and then 3 minutes worth of bad jokes and canned laughter. The series just didn't work, and even though they were married they just didn't have the kind of chemistry that Sonny and Cher or even Donny and Marie had

[BobbyC]

I agree, Bayou. I was in high school when that show came out and I watched maybe two episodes and couldn't take it anymore. It was so cornball. So old school. Yuck. To my young mind, this kind of thing appealed to old people, not my age group. I recall thinking they'd never come back from that and I was right. TV variety shows were the kiss of death if you were a pop star. Unless you were Cher. "After a nuclear war, only two things will survive: cockroaches, and Cher."

[BayouMotownMan]

Recent photos seem to indicate that Billy may not be doing so well.

[BobbyC]

He recovered from prostate cancer a few years ago. I hope he's okay. He's my favorite male singer.

[BayouMotownMan]

He and Marilyn were at a recent event in LA honoring songwriters I think, he looked rather frail and Marilyn was kind of leading him. I had heard many years ago that Marilyn had broken a hip but I have never seen her displaying any pain or such in photos from that time so I don't know if that is true.

What is true is that everyone at this recent event commented on how nice Marilyn and Billy were. They always seem to be warm, loving people to everyone they encounter.

Lamont McLemore had a bad stroke a few years ago but does anyone have any updates on him?

[BobbyC]

I just heard back that Billy was sick a while ago, although I don't know what it was exactly, but he's fine now. LaMonte is in rough shape.

[BayouMotownMan]

Just wondered Bobby if you spoke to any of the other ladies that worked with Florence in the group. Messages to me is that she is a bit cra cra

[BobbyC]

Well I am cautious about what I post publicly, but yes I've spoke to several MR's [[Marilyn replacements) and they all basically said the same things.

One, each new MR was put on salary when they joined the group, in the same way Motown salaried Jean Terrell. They said that to make any real money, you'd have to be with the group several years. Remember when Jean Terrell infamously said of Motown "Don't give me a penny at first, and then give me two pennies later and expect me to be happy with it" or something like that. Same thing. Remember, Marc Gordon was old school Motown, and he literally copied almost everything Motown did when it came to the 5th Dimension.

The second complaint I heard many times, was that Florence had a habit of telling the MR's that they were "over-singing"--in other words, they were injecting too much soul into the songs and Florence didn't like it. Some felt like F thought they were upstaging her, and maybe they were. As other groups and/or singers were getting more soulful in how they approached songs, Florence wanted to stay in a very genteel, understated bag that worked in the 60's and early 70's, but seemed to be outdated by the late 70's and on. Florence wanted a Karen Carpenter, not a Chaka Khan.

The third complaint was lack of a recording deal. Seems like most of the MR's were under the impression they'd be recording once they joined, but that almost never happened. And the handful of times they actually did record, the songs were either not released, or they were released, and bombed [[Surrender, Fantasy, etc.). Not good.

Florence said herself [[in interviews) that the group was floundering when Marilyn and Billy left, and somebody had to steer the ship. That person was Florence. Some new members didn't like that and did not enjoy taking a back seat to her. I am sure Florence didn't want another Marilyn situation on her hands.

Joyce Pierce got along with Florence and she stayed for years. They are still friends, last I knew. The others, not so much.

[bradsupremes]

I seem to recall a story about how tense the sessions were for Earthbound even to the point Ron brought a gun to the session. It's understandable for them to have negative feelings toward the album due to the tensions of what was going on, but it certainly didn't affect the quality of the album. It's one of my favorites containing such a diverse array of styles. Jimmy Webb really outdid himself on the production end. I wish he approached his album with The Supremes the way he did with this album. Do either of you know if there were any unreleased songs from this album?

As for Lamonte, he does have a lot of posts on his Facebook page but I don't know if its necessarily him or members of his team doing it.

[BayouMotownMan]

I'm sure you know the tragedy of Danny Beard. Any reason why he left the group so soon?

[BobbyC]

Brad, Earthbound is one of my all time favorite albums. Re: Ron and a gun at those sessions. Jimmy Webb is the guy who said Ron brought in a gun, but LaMonte said none of that was true. BUT after LaMonte said that never happened, he sort of backtracked by saying if it did happen, it was a gun Ron already had, because he used to be a security guard. That doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what he said.

Bayou, regarding Danny. He was killed in an arson fire at his apartment building. He had a room-mate who got out, and this guy thought Danny was right behind him, but he wasn't. He succumbed to smoke inhalation. To this day, the crime [[arson) has never been solved to the best of my knowledge.

Danny had some habits that did not align to the 5th's squeaky clean image. I know that got him in some hot water. That's all I'll say.

Fun Danny fact: In 1974, Danny went backstage after a 5th Dimension show, and gushed to the group that if they ever needed a replacement, he was their man! That's how impressed he was by them! Little did he know that a year later, he'd take Billy's place!

Another fun fact: in 1976, the group recorded a song called Be Good To One Another, on which Danny sang lead. This song was never officially released until the 90's--but if you listen closely towards the end, you can plainly hear Billy doing ad-libs! I asked Billy how this was possible as he had already left the group, but he didn't seem to remember what happened. Look that song up on Youtube and you'll see what I am referring to...

[BobbyC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugAeUOhES90

[BayouMotownMan]

You mean that Danny was gay? That was no secret

[BobbyC]

No. That is not what I meant.

[BayouMotownMan]

His drug usage? The murder itself wreaks of a drug hit

[BobbyC]

I can neither confirm nor deny, at least not in a public forum, but let's just say there is a good reason why police didn't seem to be falling all over each other to solve this arson event.

[BayouMotownMan]

Inbox me on this one Bobby

[BobbyC]

I PMed you on Facebook