Mahogany...A Missed Opportunity

[Ollie9]

The film is a bit of escapist fun that was never going to be taken seriously.
Should it have dealt with more adult themes related to the modelling world such as anorexia or mental health?. It certainly would have provided Diana with something to get her acting chops into and perhaps another shot at the Oscar.

[sup_fan]

i don't think it would have to have been a "special topic" movie addressing some sort of social commentary in order to be taken seriously. it just needed a better script, better directing and better acting lol

there are too many random characters that have little to do with the plot - Aunt Flo, Gavina, even Christian. Anthony Perkins was not right for the role IMO. the outfits Diana designed for the fashion show sequence were bizarre as fuck [[and not in a good way). they had hyped how Diana would be designing the costumes and then when everyone saw them they were like ?!?!?!

You do have a point that the 70s had a big focus on "topical" films and so Mahogany was never going to fit into that. but i think it would have been fine still to have just a good romance, if it was a good film

[marybrewster]

I thought MAHOGANY was a great film, lol.

But the problems that I see were:

1) Anthony Perkins as a love interest? Girl.

2) There are too many "no names" in the film. Yes, you've got Billy Dee, and yes, Anthony Perkins. But everyone else is a B/C list or foreign actor, which doesn't necessarily resonate with a US audience. At least IMO.

3) The you melt me like hot candle wax scene is just TOO much.

[sansradio]

2) There are too many "no names" in the film. Yes, you've got Billy Dee, and yes, Anthony Perkins. But everyone else is a B/C list or foreign actor, which doesn't necessarily resonate with a US audience. At least IMO.
\

Well, you had Beah Richards, who was an Oscar nominee and highly regarded--I'd rank her as at least A-minus list. And Nina Foch was a major acting teacher, so...yeah, C-list sounds about right.

[sup_fan]

I thought MAHOGANY was a great film, lol.

But the problems that I see were:

1) Anthony Perkins as a love interest? Girl.

2) There are too many "no names" in the film. Yes, you've got Billy Dee, and yes, Anthony Perkins. But everyone else is a B/C list or foreign actor, which doesn't necessarily resonate with a US audience. At least IMO.

3) The you melt me like hot candle wax scene is just TOO much.

oh if ONLY they'd piped in Touch during that scene. maybe as Diana is prancing about her party guests, she slips over to the hi-fi and pulls out the Touch lp. starts to slowly gyrate around as the creepy drums and strings intro for the song plays. then grabs not a pillar candle like she did in the actual movie but one of those 70's era red crinkly glass votive candle holders. like what you'd find on the table at Pizza Hut! and as mary warbles out "Darling just relax" diana starts to pour the wax lol

[sup_fan]

Well, you had Beah Richards, who was an Oscar nominee and highly regarded--I'd rank her as at least A-minus list. And Nina Foch was a major acting teacher, so...yeah, C-list sounds about right.

well that's even more to my point. Beah and Nina were major talents and totally wasted.

the movie really just fails to adequately set up the true conflict. which is Tracie's inability to reconcile her old life with her new one. yet other than when Brian tells her off, we see little to nothing from her showing that she's miserable. until she cries in Christian's bed. there's no scene of her being home sick, Aunt Beah could have come and visited and scolded Tracie about getting too uppity, or Tracy visits home and gets that tongue lashing from the aunt.

Nina had about 3 seconds of screen time - shouldn't her character have been practically as involved in mahogany's career as Anthony's? what about the two of them pushing her more and more into the superficial?

and of course the whole Christian character is whisked in and out so quickly. how on earth did this older sugar daddy fall in love with her over a 2 min runway experience? couldn't they have met before? couldn't he and anthony have had some conflicts prior?

[sansradio]

^^^Nah, Nina's character was definitely one of the villains of the piece. Remember how she browbeat and discouraged Tracy, who was always late for her secretarial job pursuing her designer dreams? Maybe she could have appeared one time after Tracy made it big...only for Tracy to give her a big "f*** you!".

[sup_fan]

^^^Nah, Nina's character was definitely one of the villains of the piece. Remember how she browbeat and discouraged Tracy, who was always late for her secretarial job pursuing her designer dreams? Maybe she could have appeared one time after Tracy made it big...only for Tracy to give her a big "f*** you!".

oh i had her mixed up with the actress that played Gavina in Italy. yes you're right! that old shrew lol

[Boogiedown]

A missed opportunity is right !

So if de passé script for LADY SINGS was so brilliant [Oscar nomination for screenplay] why was she snubbed for any involvement for the follow up??[wouldn’t that have been a great question in her recent interview — asked less directly of course ]

I guess they figured as long as they had Billy Dee , all was good , since apparently that’s mostly what drew a paying audience to the box office for LADY SINGS .

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mahogany was an escapist film. Perhaps not the best follow up to Lady Sings The Blues but it did deal with Diana's interest in fashion. Both the Supremes and Diana were well known for fashion. It just wasn't the strongest story. It just wasn't directed very well. Anthony Perkins was miscast. Beah Richards and Nina Foch were underutilized. Billy Dee and Diana did not recapture the spark they had in Lady.
Who knows why they chose it. They had plenty of scripts. It is not like The Wiz were a 32 year old Diana wanted to play a part for a girl.

[Spreadinglove21]

Mahogany is a camp trash classic and I wouldn't change a single frame in it.

[sup_fan]

A missed opportunity is right !

So if de passé script for LADY SINGS was so brilliant [Oscar nomination for screenplay] why was she snubbed for any involvement for the follow up??[wouldn’t that have been a great question in her recent interview — asked less directly of course ]

I guess they figured as long as they had Billy Dee , all was good , since apparently that’s mostly what drew a paying audience to the box office for LADY SINGS .

i think Suzanne was passed by because Rob Cohen had been brought in to lead the film division. so he was working with Hollywood, collecting scripts, etc. Suzanne has mentioned how disappointed she was that she wasn't tapped to lead the film division

[Albator]

i don't think it would have to have been a "special topic" movie addressing some sort of social commentary in order to be taken seriously. it just needed a better script, better directing and better acting lol

there are too many random characters that have little to do with the plot - Aunt Flo, Gavina, even Christian. Anthony Perkins was not right for the role IMO. the outfits Diana designed for the fashion show sequence were bizarre as fuck [[and not in a good way). they had hyped how Diana would be designing the costumes and then when everyone saw them they were like ?!?!?!

You do have a point that the 70s had a big focus on "topical" films and so Mahogany was never going to fit into that. but i think it would have been fine still to have just a good romance, if it was a good film

atrocious and embarrassing

[Ollie9]

Enjoyable or not, the main problem with Mahogany being that it forced critics to question Diana’s ability as a serious actress. Was LSTB a one off fluke not to be repeated?. It was also the first time she had received majorly negative reviews for any of her work.
It would appear that BG being so gung-ho over becoming director failed to notice any of the films obvious shortcomings, especially the wooden acting from a rather lame supporting cast.
For us fans it was an enjoyable slice of nonsense, but I also think it did major damage to any perception of M’s Ross as a serious and talented actress.

[BayouMotownMan]

I will give Diana her kudos that as an actress she pulled off this bad script and bad idea with a good performance. It's not easy when the story is so weak and the script so juvenile. Same with Double Platinum, she gave a bravura performance virtually carrying Brandy with a tired script and tired story line. When I watch Out of Darkness I am able to see the brilliance of her acting despite not having a single lesson in it.

Mahogany was just such a weak followup to LSTB. Stupid story, ridiculous circumstances, etc. Didn't help that Tony Perkins, who hated being in it, gave such a amateurish performance. Bad casting for sure.

Was even worse when The Wiz came along. Not even Diana's acting abilities could save that one.

[marybrewster]

oh if ONLY they'd piped in Touch during that scene. maybe as Diana is prancing about her party guests, she slips over to the hi-fi and pulls out the Touch lp. starts to slowly gyrate around as the creepy drums and strings intro for the song plays. then grabs not a pillar candle like she did in the actual movie but one of those 70's era red crinkly glass votive candle holders. like what you'd find on the table at Pizza Hut! and as mary warbles out "Darling just relax" diana starts to pour the wax lol

Such a missed opportunity, lol!

[marybrewster]

LSTB should have been the springboard to a successful acting career. In many aspects, Diana was a natural and certainly deserved a followup much grander than MAHOGANY. THE WIZ pretty much cemented that ego would prevail over quality. I blame BG for that. He dominated the music business with Diana; he failed to realize the film industry is a completely different beast.

[Boogiedown]

. the outfits Diana designed for the fashion show sequence were bizarre [and not in a good way).

Did Diana Ross actually design the clothes?? If so, how fun for her and maybe it was the only reason for her doing the movie.

Was she proud of them?? What was the response at the time ? After all, the characters amazing design ability is the catalyst of the movie. Did she continue to design her clothes ...if not why not??

Itd be a hooot if one of those wanna be a designer shows forced their contestants to design using Mahogany as their inspiration [couldn't hurt].

[Boogiedown]

Mahogany is a camp trash classic and I wouldn't change a single frame in it.

I think you've found exactly the right attitude. Now I want to pop some popcorn and kick back and watch it some night using that approach.

[BayouMotownMan]

Did Diana Ross actually design the clothes?? If so, how fun for her and maybe it was the only reason for her doing the movie.

Was she proud of them?? What was the response at the time ? After all, the characters amazing design ability is the catalyst of the movie. Did she continue to design her clothes ...if not why not??

Itd be a hooot if one of those wanna be a designer shows forced their contestants to design using Mahogany as their inspiration [couldn't hurt].

She said she designed and purchased all of the clothes used in the movie. She also said she was sorry she signed up for it as she was stressed to the max and sick to her stomach in the early pregnancy for Chudney. I remember most reviews panned the designs and their oriental flare.

[sup_fan]

Such a missed opportunity, lol!

Mary lol you and i should write an updated screenplay for Mahogany lol

[sup_fan]

Did Diana Ross actually design the clothes?? If so, how fun for her and maybe it was the only reason for her doing the movie.

Was she proud of them?? What was the response at the time ? After all, the characters amazing design ability is the catalyst of the movie. Did she continue to design her clothes ...if not why not??

Itd be a hooot if one of those wanna be a designer shows forced their contestants to design using Mahogany as their inspiration [couldn't hurt].

yes Diana is credited in the film with the costumes. I don't know that she designed each and every outfit she wore. i'd guess that the mundane outfits she wears in Chicago are probably just purchased off the rack. And i don't know that she designed EVERY outfit in the montages sequence. I'm pretty sure she did do all of the fashion show outfits.

according to Randy's book, she was heavily influenced by the french designer Erte along with Kubuki theater. this is certainly an interesting and off mix of influences. her translation of these two source materials was also executed in some odd fabric choices. there are unusual lame materials, synthetics. some of them are VERY of their time in the mid 70s, which doesn't necessarily help them age. i've never heard anything really from her as to what she was pulling from, why, what it meant, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ert%C3%A9

[reese]

In Diana's 1977 tour program, she included a section called "A Mahogany Scrapbook" that had some of her designs for the film.

[Boogiedown]

Mahogany is a camp trash classic and I wouldn't change a single frame in it.

from https://www.austinchronicle.com/colu...-06-22/494049/

DO YOU KNOW?

A seminal moment in fashion history has occurred – the 1975 film Mahogany starring Diana Ross has been released on DVD. A landmark in camp, it holds a very special place in the Kweenie Klassix Hall of Fame. Mahogany tells the story of a lowly display assistant [[Ross) who dreams of becoming a fashion designer but accidentally becomes an international supermodel instead. Along the way, she begins and ends a love affair with a smarmy but dedicated neighborhood activist [[Billy Dee Williams) and is embroiled in a relationship with a psycho fashion photographer [[Psycho's Anthony Perkins, natch), eventually returning to the activist after learning that "success is nothing without someone to share it with." Absolute undiluted but highly entertaining dreck. The story, coupled with all the most drag-queen-ish gowns you could ever dream of, creates a sense of visual biliousness laced with dread. La Ross' approach to acting involves lots of screaming, gnashing her teeth, and popping her eyes as she struts across the screen in a parade of garishly colored luxe ensembles from the Seventies. From the Kabuki scene that opens the story to the modeling montage to the fashion show of Princess Irene Galitzine's gowns to the wax-dripping dance at the party in Rome, Mahogany is such a hot mess [[on par with Valley of the Dolls and Showgirls) that you'll be craving antibiotics.

[Ollie9]

from https://www.austinchronicle.com/colu...-06-22/494049/

A pretty accurate review i would say, particularly regarding the gnashing of teeth.
On the plus side, the film seems to have inspired many would be designers to go for it.
It certainly inspired me on the use of hot candle wax, but that’s another story altogether.

[daviddh]

Thought. The original director was fired by BG.
Didn't BG take over directing, and he and Ross had issues.
Think I read she and he had words

[sup_fan]

Thought. The original director was fired by BG.
Didn't BG take over directing, and he and Ross had issues.
Think I read she and he had words

yes. Academy Award Winner Tony Richardson was to direct the film but Berry felt the guy wasn't capturing the "reality" of life in the ghetto of Chicago. Although the same could maybe be said about Berry not capturing the elegance of italy

[sansradio]

Thought. The original director was fired by BG.
Didn't BG take over directing, and he and Ross had issues.
Think I read she and he had words

Yeah, Richardson was very condescending to the Black cast and crew and generally clueless about their experiences and sensibilities. Gordy and Ross weren't having it.

[sup_fan]

i've heard mixed stories about Tony. some accounts said he and Diana got along marvelously. others that he was a racist that looked down at Diana and Berry. some of the more "negative" stories came out in the book Call Her Miss Ross. given that book's tendency to veer into the sensational, i'm not sure how much i would accept of that. it's pretty thirdhand information, at best.

what was clear is the Tony was not happy about a producer being so highly involved with the day to day activities on set. plus Tony was an oscar-winning director and Berry was a novice.

two very strong-minded men

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Thought. The original director was fired by BG.
Didn't BG take over directing, and he and Ross had issues.
Think I read she and he had words

They had more than just words... I was just waiting[[!) for someone to jump in with this whole mess. I'm just picking off random memories from a couple of books I read, but you've got Tony Richardson who had a stellar history of producing some of the most progressive of movies. At the time I read about him, I didn't know his movies, but as I've grown older and I'd see a film I absolutely loved and then found out it was produced or directed by Tony, I'd think OH! THAT Tony Richardson! He was one of the leading directors of British New Wave of film making. Some of the films he did that I only realized later were his included some of my favorites; "A Taste Of Honey," "The Entertainer," "The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner," "Saturday Night and Sunday Morning," and "The Girl With Green Eyes." So this man was acclaimed and made some stellar, amazing films. Diana was thrilled to be working with someone who had such a background. For his part, Tony knew next to nothing about Diana Ross- he set up a meeting expecting to meet this "wild Rock 'n' Roll Mama" but in the end was impressed with what he felt was her rudimentary but effective means of researching and developing her character. Diana had brought a notebook with questions like "Who Is Tracy Chambers?" There was a part where Tony said he felt she may have had a very similar approach when she was in the Supremes, something like "Who Is Diana Ross?", "What Is Diana Ross's future plan? To ditch the Supremes and leave those other two girls in the dust."

Whether or not Tony had a condescending attitude toward Blacks, Diana either didn't see it or didn't particularly care. In her eyes, she was trying her best to separate herself from Berry and working with Tony was very enjoyable for her. She liked the way he directed and worked with her. Apparently Rob Cohen told Berry that Tony didn't really have the best interests for Motown, Diana or Berry and that he needed to go. I think he also told Berry about Tony's condescending attitude towards Blacks. At any rate, when the word came down that Tony had to go, Diana wasn't happy about it at all. Whatever it was, it seems she and Tony had a good working relationship.

After Tony was gone, and Berry decided to take over, Diana resented it very much. There was some incident where Diana was supposed to frolic in a fountain or something like that and Berry kept wanting her to redo the scene. She finally got so fed up with Berry's telling her what to do, she hauled off and slapped Berry across the face so hard his sunglasses flew off his face.

I keep wondering how this film would have turned out if Tony had remained as director.

[Ollie9]

They had more than just words... I was just waiting[[!) for someone to jump in with this whole mess. I'm just picking off random memories from a couple of books I read, but you've got Tony Richardson who had a stellar history of producing some of the most progressive of movies. At the time I read about him, I didn't know his movies, but as I've grown older and I'd see a film I absolutely loved and then found out it was produced or directed by Tony, I'd think OH! THAT Tony Richardson! He was one of the leading directors of British New Wave of film making. Some of the films he did that I only realized later were his included some of my favorites; "A Taste Of Honey," "The Entertainer," "The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner," "Saturday Night and Sunday Morning," and "The Girl With Green Eyes." So this man was acclaimed and made some stellar, amazing films. Diana was thrilled to be working with someone who had such a background. For his part, Tony knew next to nothing about Diana Ross- he set up a meeting expecting to meet this "wild Rock 'n' Roll Mama" but in the end was impressed with what he felt was her rudimentary but effective means of researching and developing her character. Diana had brought a notebook with questions like "Who Is Tracy Chambers?" There was a part where Tony said he felt she may have had a very similar approach when she was in the Supremes, something like "Who Is Diana Ross?", "What Is Diana Ross's future plan? To ditch the Supremes and leave those other two girls in the dust."

Whether or not Tony had a condescending attitude toward Blacks, Diana either didn't see it or didn't particularly care. In her eyes, she was trying her best to separate herself from Berry and working with Tony was very enjoyable for her. She liked the way he directed and worked with her. Apparently Rob Cohen told Berry that Tony didn't really have the best interests for Motown, Diana or Berry and that he needed to go. I think he also told Berry about Tony's condescending attitude towards Blacks. At any rate, when the word came down that Tony had to go, Diana wasn't happy about it at all. Whatever it was, it seems she and Tony had a good working relationship.

After Tony was gone, and Berry decided to take over, Diana resented it very much. There was some incident where Diana was supposed to frolic in a fountain or something like that and Berry kept wanting her to redo the scene. She finally got so fed up with Berry's telling her what to do, she hauled off and slapped Berry across the face so hard his sunglasses flew off his face.

I keep wondering how this film would have turned out if Tony had remained as director.

I remember reading that Diana got on really well with Tony.
It’s a difficult one regarding BG, as without him it’s highly unlikely she would have achieved superstar status.
He financed and encouraged her to do LSTB while getting her to record hit songs she wasn’t particularly fond of. When finally achieving complete control she recorded some of the worst music of her career and never starred in another major film.
Given the script, i really can’t imagine the film would have turned out much better with Tony directing unless there were major changes made.
At best the films a camp classic, but my she desperately needed a stronger followup to maintain any real cred.

[sansradio]

In my research, I've come across, for the first time in my Motown-Diana-Ross-and-Mahogany-obsessed life, the name of Jack Wormser listed as co-director. Was he an a.d. to Richardson? Was he hired and fired after Richardson was? Did he do the actual heavy lifting for directorial novice Gordy...a ghost director, if you will? News to me, either way!

[Spreadinglove21]

I wonder what happened to Richardson's career in the 70s to go from those films he directed to a project like Mahogany?

[Boogiedown]

I wonder what happened to Richardson's career in the 70s to go from those films he directed to a project like Mahogany?

He obviously makes for a lousy racist to want to go anywhere near such a project, unless his goal was to sabotage the film. In that case its good that he was interceded or in the wrong hands the whole thing might have turned into a flailing disaster .

Not sure what special sensibilities are of concern when directing actors of specific skin colors ?? Would be interesting to learn more on that ....

[Ollie9]

He obviously makes for a lousy racist to want to go anywhere near such a project, unless his goal was to sabotage the film. In that case its good that he was interceded or in the wrong hands the whole thing might have turned into a flailing disaster .



Not sure what special sensibilities are of concern when directing actors of specific skin colors ?? Would be interesting to learn more on that ....

I think it was a combination, with Tony a little condescending while resenting BG’s meddling on the set. Who knows for sure?. He was apparently appalled and totally against the scene where Tracy offers herself up to a would be rapist. He could see BG really wanted control so passed the baton. I believe he was payed a full salary.