Mary Wilson circa 1987 in Brazil

[jim aka jtigre99]

[Spreadinglove21]

Interesting find. The notorious Kaaren Ragland was still working for Mary at this time. Interestng that the first question about Dreamgirl My Life as a Supreme is about Mary fighting with Diana Ross. Can't Take My eyes off of you/Quiet Nights is still in Mary's show and pretty much same arrangement as she used in the JML days. But the audience here loved it.

And question--the medley You Can't Hurry Love/Come See About Me/Back In My Arms again is performed. When did this become part of Mary's show?

[RanRan79]

What a great find!

My first reaction to "Eyes" is "Oh no, not again!" This song had been in the Supremes act for far too long, IMO. "Somewhere", "You're Nobody" and "Eyes" are the three songs that should have been retired from the act long before their final performances. Although having said that, the performance of "Eyes" from the Japan 73 album, while I stand by my opinion that it should long ago have been dropped from the act, Mary was on fire with it. By far the best performance of the song she had done and dare I say the showstopper of the set. But it was time to let it go. And then here it is in her solo set in 1987. Good grief lady, let it go. It's someone else's song for goodness sake. Only Diana has her beat with beating someone else's song to death with "I Will Survive". I guess those Motown classes failed to teach that there's a certain thing called "overkill". Either that or Mary and Diana skipped those lessons to run the streets when the Dells came to town.

Anywho, here, Mary does herself justice and the audience reaction is clearly of pleasure and it's such a beautiful thing to see, especially when some people continuously downplay her talent. She was a true entertainer and it sucks that she didn't- for reasons I've stated ad nauseam on many a thread- get to entertain audiences with a show full of her own original songs. She had "it", but didn't seem to know what to do with it or have the people in place to help her figure it out.

The other thing that stood out to me was how unprepared I was for how good "Back In My Arms Again" sounded. I've said it before and I'll say it again: those songs are Supremes songs. They belong as much to Mary and Florence as they do to Diana, so Mary had every right to sing them whenever she wanted. [[Florence too.) The issue for me is that Diana's lead voice was so unique and those hits were mostly crafted with her lead voice in mind [[I'm hard pressed to think of a story about any of the Flo era hits being written with any other singer in mind, not including "Where Did Our Love Go") that in order to pull off a cover, the singer would either need to re-work the song "radically" to fit one's self or they would need to approach the song the exact same way Diana did, but to do that, it would usually only work with a certain kind of style. Mary's voice was so radically different from Diana's that when she sang some of those songs live, I'm rarely impressed. Of course there are exceptions. Mary has great live versions of "My World Is Empty" and "Someday We'll Be Together". So I expected "Back In My Arms Again" to have a real karaoke sound to it, as I was not impressed with this performance of "You Can't Hurry Love". "Back" was great! I was really impressed with what Mary did with it.

[RanRan79]

Regarding the question about the "fight", that didn't surprise me. Even here in this forum, where many of us claim to be super fans, the threads that seem to get the most traction are any about the controversies, especially RTL, while threads about the music- even songs or albums that rarely get discussed- are ignored in droves by some of the same folks who can't wait to run up in the RTL-ish threads. Surely on a TV show geared toward the general public the question to ask would most certainly be about "fights".

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary certainly had star power and was musically talented. I always liked how that she remained true to the original music of a song even though it was not in her key. To be a group, you had three individual voices that complimented each other. Imagine listening to a group that harmonized with 3 Dianas? That would be a totally different sound. It wouldn't have been what made the Supremes so special and Mary was a definite big part of that.
Yes, she did sing some chestnuts of the past. Mary admitted she had lost her confidence when Gordy told her she couldn't sing. She excelled on soul love ballads and had she been given something for her talents to sing, success would have come her way. Without it, she gave the audience what it wanted-Supremes songs. Yes, she did do Back in My Arms again justice quite nicely. I remember a telethon she sang it on and she also sounded splendid on it.
I know at her debut in New York, New York Diana said Mary and I have never left each other and Mary said it's okay let the World think we fight. It's all right. Sure, they may not always get along 100% but I saw Dreamgirl as stating this is how I was, this is how Diana was and this is how Flo was. I agree some like to enjoy their differences and like any other human beings they had them.
I will have to find that telethon video.

[Spreadinglove21]

Maybe she did Can't Take My eyes off of You/Quiet Nights because of the Quiet Nights [[a Jobim song) part and she was performing in Brazil?

[jim aka jtigre99]

[RanRan79]

Maybe she did Can't Take My eyes off of You/Quiet Nights because of the Quiet Nights [[a Jobim song) part and she was performing in Brazil?

Possibly. But why not just do "Quiet Nights" on its own? I'm not gonna nitpick her choice here, because ultimately she wowed the crowd. Had the response been tepid, I would be ripping Mary to shreds for the choice. But that audience loved it and loved her, and I bet she was over the moon by the response, so this has to be placed in the "Good Move Mary" category.

[RanRan79]

Not impressed with this. I actually do think "You Can't Hurry Love" is a song that Mary could have torn up, but it would have to be changed somehow to fit her voice. Her voice is too deep and heavy for this arrangement, and to compensate, she often resorts to "screaming", which does not do her any favors.

Another issue I've noticed about Mary as a solo is that in her live act, she seems to always be better than her television performances, which might have been a hinderance to her as well. I don't know if it was nerves of performing for potential millions of viewers [[yes, she had been performing for tons of people for decades, but you'd be surprised at how many of the legends- superstars even- who get a bit of stage fright or nervousness before performing) or if she was just more in her element being able to connect with a theatre or nightclub audience.

Come to think of it, I find Diana often had the same problem. She was often much better in her shows than her television appearances, IMO.

[sup_fan]

Not impressed with this. I actually do think "You Can't Hurry Love" is a song that Mary could have torn up, but it would have to be changed somehow to fit her voice. Her voice is too deep and heavy for this arrangement, and to compensate, she often resorts to "screaming", which does not do her any favors.

Another issue I've noticed about Mary as a solo is that in her live act, she seems to always be better than her television performances, which might have been a hinderance to her as well. I don't know if it was nerves of performing for potential millions of viewers [[yes, she had been performing for tons of people for decades, but you'd be surprised at how many of the legends- superstars even- who get a bit of stage fright or nervousness before performing) or if she was just more in her element being able to connect with a theatre or nightclub audience.

Come to think of it, I find Diana often had the same problem. She was often much better in her shows than her television appearances, IMO.

i agree about the weightiness of Mary's voice being a challenge with some of these lighter pop tunes or songs that pack a tone of notes and words into a small space. it's just not the right material for her

as for tv versus stage, i think the main difference is that audience interaction. yes sometimes a studio will have an audience but they came to see the show/host whereas the audience at a concert is there to see the artist. i think it just adds an element. having that audience wanting to see YOU and having that feed into your performance energy. the way you can relate and interact

[rod_rick]

Not impressed with this. I actually do think "You Can't Hurry Love" is a song that Mary could have torn up, but it would have to be changed somehow to fit her voice. Her voice is too deep and heavy for this arrangement, and to compensate, she often resorts to "screaming", which does not do her any favors.

Another issue I've noticed about Mary as a solo is that in her live act, she seems to always be better than her television performances, which might have been a hinderance to her as well. I don't know if it was nerves of performing for potential millions of viewers [[yes, she had been performing for tons of people for decades, but you'd be surprised at how many of the legends- superstars even- who get a bit of stage fright or nervousness before performing) or if she was just more in her element being able to connect with a theatre or nightclub audience.

Come to think of it, I find Diana often had the same problem. She was often much better in her shows than her television appearances, IMO.

I always felt with Mary during her solo years when she was on TV singing live she felt she had to KILL IT [[the performance) in a short amount of time because she had 90 minutes a lot more time to showcase her talent.

[rod_rick]

I might get dogged for this but I prefer Mary singing most of the Supreme songs than Scherrie. Scherrie imo did too much vocally with those songs

[jim aka jtigre99]

I might get dogged for this but I prefer Mary singing most of the Supreme songs than Scherrie. Scherrie imo did too much vocally with those songs

.
Everyone has their own tastes and opinions. I loved it when we had three different performers out there doing these songs in their own way. Even Diana sounds different than she used to on those songs. I love Diana, Mary and Scherrie. Scherrie is a belter and does use her vocals to showcase her range. Jean also used to sing songs differently each time while both Diana and Mary were more consistent. Mary's contralto was not the right key for these pop songs but she stayed true to the music of the original song. But she sang them with her voice rather than straining to sound like Diana. She always provided an earnestness in her vocals and love for performing and the songs that she helped make famous. I also felt Mary's band was always closer to the sound of the original more so than the FLOs but I enjoyed all of them keeping the music alive.
I say enjoy who you like but celebrate all of them for keeping the music out there.

[RanRan79]

I might get dogged for this but I prefer Mary singing most of the Supreme songs than Scherrie. Scherrie imo did too much vocally with those songs

I can't find fault with your statement. However, for me, it might depend on the song.

[RanRan79]

.
Everyone has their own tastes and opinions. I loved it when we had three different performers out there doing these songs in their own way. Even Diana sounds different than she used to on those songs. I love Diana, Mary and Scherrie. Scherrie is a belter and does use her vocals to showcase her range. Jean also used to sing songs differently each time while both Diana and Mary were more consistent. Mary's contralto was not the right key for these pop songs but she stayed true to the music of the original song. But she sang them with her voice rather than straining to sound like Diana. She always provided an earnestness in her vocals and love for performing and the songs that she helped make famous. I also felt Mary's band was always closer to the sound of the original more so than the FLOs but I enjoyed all of them keeping the music alive.
I say enjoy who you like but celebrate all of them for keeping the music out there.

Actually, on the hits, I think if Mary had used her "basic" range, the one we came to know in the mid 60s, where she stayed in her low, sultry register and didn't try to do too much, it would have come across much better than when she used a Supremes hit to showcase that her range had grown far beyond that.

I've said it before, those early Supremes hits, I could hear Mary singing them very well, when we talk about switching Diana out for either Flo or Mary on a lead on a single. I think Mary could have done justice to "Where", "Baby Love", "Come See About Me", "Symphony", even "My World Is Empty". So as a solo performer, being called on to represent the Supremes, I think if Mary had chosen a more laidback vocal approach to songs such as these, she would have come across better.

[Spreadinglove21]

I never cared much for Mary singing lead on You Can't Hurry Love. It just plods along. Her voice is too heavy and ponderous for that song. But the rest of the medley is pretty good and she and band do work up something on Back on My Arms Again.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Actually, on the hits, I think if Mary had used her "basic" range, the one we came to know in the mid 60s, where she stayed in her low, sultry register and didn't try to do too much, it would have come across much better than when she used a Supremes hit to showcase that her range had grown far beyond that.

I've said it before, those early Supremes hits, I could hear Mary singing them very well, when we talk about switching Diana out for either Flo or Mary on a lead on a single. I think Mary could have done justice to "Where", "Baby Love", "Come See About Me", "Symphony", even "My World Is Empty". So as a solo performer, being called on to represent the Supremes, I think if Mary had chosen a more laidback vocal approach to songs such as these, she would have come across better.

I think when she was told she " couldn't sing" that really hurt her as she saw Diana with a commercial voice and Flo with a big voice that Mary considered the best in the group. Once she started to get vocal lessons to strengthen her voice she was probably determined to show what she could actually do. Yes, those songs would have been better sung by her in the voice she used in the mid 60's-like how she covered Come and Get These Memories, with a soft sultry voice compared to Martha. She could easily have sung those hits like that and it would have worked. After all, one of the Hollands wanted Mary to sing lead on Where Did Our Love Go but the other 2 voted for Diana, still her background vocals were predominant on the record probably because that was part of the sound they were going for.
Mary's voice kept improving and she tried to utilize her range to prove that she could sing but she should have taken a lighter vocal approach on those songs-she obviously could do it but I think once she released her voice to show her range she psychologically wasn't going to hold back anymore.
Here she is in later years doing a medley, a show that I saw earlier that day