California Soul

[jobucats]

I just learned something today. I was watching a YouTube video of Fifth Dimension singing their single, "California Soul" and discovered not only was it an Ashford/Simpson song from 1967; but it was also recorded as a B-side on a Messengers's group single.

From my understanding, the Fifth Dimension released it as a single in 1969, and it was included on their Stoned Soul Picnic album just prior to their big single, Aquarius.

[jobucats]

Replying to my own post, Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell also recorded this in 1967. In 1970, as a tribute to Tammi after she passed, Dick Clark/American Stand featured this on the show. I really like this version.

[reese]

Marvin and Tammi's version was originally released on their EASY album [1969], and as the flipside to THE ONION SONG [1970].

Nick Ashford also released a version of it in 1968 on Verve.

[jobucats]

Marvin and Tammi's version was originally released on their EASY album [1969], and as the flipside to THE ONION SONG [1970].

Nick Ashford also released a version of it in 1968 on Verve.

Of all the versions I am hearing, I believe I enjoy Marvin and Tammi's the best.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

The first version of this I ever heard was by Smokey Robinson & The Miracles on their "Four In Blue" LP. Of all the versions I've heard, this is my favorite. For me, in terms of tempo and production, theirs holds all the cards.

[carlo]

I also love Marlena Shaw's version.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CUosSQZSw5c

[gman]

I like the 5ths....I like the pacing better than Marvin and Tammi's....the 5th had some great B sides....Lovin' Stew and Dont'cha Hear Me Callin' to Ya are my favs...most of the early B sides can be found on "The July 5th Album"...a album released because there was no new LP ready for their scheduled July release....they did the original version of The Worst That Could Happen....and Sweet Blindness, Blowin' Away and The Girls Song are among my fav sweet soul records.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Marvin & Tammi's version gets my vote.

[Graham Jarvis]

The Messengers formed in High School in Winona Minnesota in 1962 by Greg Bamenek, Roy Berger, Greg Jeresek, Chip Andrews & Jim Murray. The Messengers continued playing as a group when they all went to university in Milwaukee. Later on and following recording for Soma & USA records they were selected with a support slot being invited to the Dave Clark Five Tour of the states. Dave Clark Five is from the UK but not this particular group "The Messengers". It was Motown producer Jeffery Bowen in Chicago that offered the group a Motown contract.

[BayouMotownMan]

My vote goes to the Marvin and Tammi version as well, even though this is clearly Valerie Simpson on the recording despite her continued protestations that it wasn't. Not long before his passing Marvin Gaye pulled out the Easy lp for writer David Ritz and admitted he hated the lp because it was Valerie on the album and not Tammi. Tammi is on two tracks on Side B.

[jobeterob]

I like the 5ths....I like the pacing better than Marvin and Tammi's....the 5th had some great B sides....Lovin' Stew and Dont'cha Hear Me Callin' to Ya are my favs...most of the early B sides can be found on "The July 5th Album"...a album released because there was no new LP ready for their scheduled July release....they did the original version of The Worst That Could Happen....and Sweet Blindness, Blowin' Away and The Girls Song are among my fav sweet soul records.

I prefer the 5D version for the same reason

[robb_k]

I like Marvin Gaye's and Tammi Terrell's vocals, and Marlena Shaw's too. But, for some odd reason, Marvin & Tammi's version had a second-rate [[LP filler) quality background instrumentals, while The Messengers' release had Motowns classic 1960s Motown A++ hit single quality background! I wish Motown had given that song to one of their major single artists for a single artist hit single, using the background tracks and mix that was given to The Messengers.

[BayouMotownMan]

Well, I guess my ears are different Rob as I love the backing instrumental to Marvin and Valerie's California Soul. The Detroit strings on here are gorgeous.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I like Marvin Gaye's and Tammi Terrell's vocals, and Marlena Shaw's too. But, for some odd reason, Marvin & Tammi's version had a second-rate [[LP filler) quality background instrumentals...

That entire album, save for the Tammi solos retrofitted as Marvin/Tammi duets and "I'm Your Puppet" has uniquely listless backing tracks. I've never figured out exactly what it was; the music is perfectly arranged and performed but much of it has such a technically pristine sound that it hits my ears as fairly antiseptic and colorless. The drums have no punch at all. There's an alternate mix of "Keep On Lovin' Me Honey" where the backing track kicks doors wide open and the horns are mixed much more upfront. I would have loved that mix with the final vocals to have been released.

[BayouMotownMan]

I noticed that many mixes in 1969 have a harder sounding mix to them, i.e. the drums and bass are brought forward. The Marvin and Tammi Easy lp, Smokey's Doggone Right and Abraham, Martin & John, Supremes Stormy. Perhaps they were utilizing a different studio at this time and the acoustics were different.

[mysterysinger]

Then there was Edwin though it takes an age to start properly. I'll always plump for Marvin and Tammi [[Val) on "California Soul" though. Such a great song.

[mysterysinger]

And who was it mentioned the Undisputed Truth?

[paul_nixon]

And who was it mentioned the Undisputed Truth?

I really like Edwin's version and have always loved the UT's - somewhere I heard a stereo mix of the Messengers that really sings though.

[danman869]

There's also a non-Motown [[LA-based) cover that's a little more mellow: Bruce Cloud's 1969 cover.

[danman869]

The Brazilian group, Wilson das Nevas, took a turn at the song in 1969, too:

[danman869]

Brenda and The Tabulations gave the song their own version with a Van McCoy production in 1970:

[danman869]

As well, Jonah Jones recorded his own horn-centric version in late 1969 and it as included on his March 1970 Motown album, "A Little Dis, A Little Dat." Sadly, while I have an MP3 copy of the song, it isn't currently available/uploaded anywhere on YouTube.

[danman869]

I'll probably say my favorite version [[the one I heard first so many years back) would be the one by Marvin and "Tammi" [[thanks, Val!). The others are definitely good listens and I enjoy them!

[motony]

I'm one of the few that bought "The Onion Song" new & thought it didn't quite sound like Tammi."California Soul" was never a favorite by anyone. Well, I take that back... I like it best by Brenda Payton, I forgot I had it by her. Thanks for reminding me about it.

[Boogiedown]

Marvin and Tammi's version was originally released on their EASY album [1969], and as the flipside to THE ONION SONG [1970].

Nick Ashford also released a version of it in 1968 on Verve.

Would never have guessed by that voice it was him

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I noticed that many mixes in 1969 have a harder sounding mix to them, i.e. the drums and bass are brought forward. The Marvin and Tammi Easy lp, Smokey's Doggone Right and Abraham, Martin & John, Supremes Stormy. Perhaps they were utilizing a different studio at this time and the acoustics were different.

A quick check of the site Don't Forget The Motor City shows the majority of the material was still being done in Detroit [[Stormy was done in Detroit AND LA, Abraham, Martin and John was done in NY) but my feeling is that the overall sound came down to whoever did the final mix. I think you're onto something I hadn't thought about though. The Marvin/Tammi LP is titled 'Easy' and maybe there was a definite course of thought to mix the tracks with a bit of a lighter sound than the usual booming, harder-edged Motown type of mix.

[motony]

In listening to the millionth time to both California Soul & the Onion Song. California Soul sounds like Tammi, Onion is definetly Valerie to my old ears.

[jobucats]

Would never have guessed by that voice it was him

I agree. There's nothing about that voice on "California Soul" that sounds like the Nick Ashford I know. Apparently he sang with a group called Young Emotions. This sounds more like him...

[Sotosound]

A quick check of the site Don't Forget The Motor City shows the majority of the material was still being done in Detroit [[Stormy was done in Detroit AND LA, Abraham, Martin and John was done in NY) but my feeling is that the overall sound came down to whoever did the final mix. I think you're onto something I hadn't thought about though. The Marvin/Tammi LP is titled 'Easy' and maybe there was a definite course of thought to mix the tracks with a bit of a lighter sound than the usual booming, harder-edged Motown type of mix.

My ears suggest that the overall Motown sound changed around late '67 - early '68 from the classic lovely and slightly dirty sound to a cleaner, quieter and often drier sound. In short, less classic Motown-y.

This seemed to coincide with the demise of mono album mixes, which meant that the stereo mixes had to be "one size fits all" mixes. It also, perhaps, reflected a switch to 16-track recording around the same time.

Check out a number of tracks on Yesterday's Dreams by Four Tops or 25 Miles by Edwin Starr to hear what I mean. Such tracks also seem to be mixed in a way that better lends itself to folding down and, with a little bit of mastering magic, sounds reasonably decent in mono.

They often also sound too clean, smooth and boring in stereo to my ears and need serious volume increases to get anywhere near the excitement that classic Motown can generate in both mono and stereo.

Around this time, some singles also started to be released as fold-downs rather than dedicated mono single mixes. [These can often be spotted by checking out the Duplicate Master codes on the labels of the US releases of the relevant singles]

This all suggests a conscious change of approach from an engineering perspective.

[Graham Jarvis]

if of any interest, two Jobete 45's from Nick & Valerie

"When I Feel The Need" On Verve 1967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFr28PbNjJI

& "Dead End Kids" on ABC 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALnK1RL1RIs

[Ollie9]

I adore the song, but always assumed it was Valerie Simpson doing a very good Tammi impression being the the nasal component sounding a little forced.