Suzanne de Passe speaks [2022] at length about LADY SINGS THE BLUES

[Boogiedown]

including her favorite scene from the movie.



Good questions but if anything interview seems cut short ....iow, more Diana please

[jobeterob]

That was really good, thank you

[Ollie9]

Cheers for posting Boog. Just wish Suzanne spent a little more time talking about Diana.

[Boogiedown]

Cheers for posting Boog. Just wish Suzanne spent a little more time talking about Diana.

yes, who she really wants to talk about, gushingly, even all these years later, is Billy Dee.

This dialogue is quite revealing and walks one through the rather random process of creating this movie step by step. That Suzanne had this much say in the movie's making is kind of shocking, especially considering her age at the time and her next to no expertise.


She admits that they basically turned this Billie Holiday biography into a chic flick. She says here that after the rewrites, what was kept from the original manuscript amounts to a couple of pages.

Also revealing is how little forethought was taken for the accompanying album, created almost as an after thought when the movie was about finished and whipped out in a frenzy of sessions, and was not welcomed by the sales department.

[Ollie9]

yes, who she really wants to talk about, gushingly, even all these years later, is Billy Dee.

This dialogue is quite revealing and walks one through the rather random process of creating this movie step by step. That Suzanne had this much say in the movie's making is kind of shocking, especially considering her age at the time and her next to no expertise.


She admits that they basically turned this Billie Holiday biography into a chic flick. She says here that after the rewrites, what was kept from the original manuscript amounts to a couple of pages.

Also revealing is how little forethought was taken for the accompanying album, created almost as an after thought when the movie was about finished and whipped out in a frenzy of sessions, and was not welcomed by the sales department.

I was really surprised to hear the album was recorded after the movie. I guess LSTB was a huge gamble for all concerned, being why they might have been a little tentative as regards investing further money in creating a lavish double album.
Diana apparently had a problem with the accuracy of the script, but as BG pointed out similar genre of films featuring white actors are seldom accurate.
This was Diana’s Funny Girl.

[Boogiedown]

I was really surprised to hear the album was recorded after the movie. I guess LSTB was a huge gamble for all concerned, being why they might have been a little tentative as regards investing further money in creating a lavish double album.
Diana apparently had a problem with the accuracy of the script, but as BG pointed out similar genre of films featuring white actors are seldom accurate.
This was Diana’s Funny Girl.

I tried to understand what De Passe was saying about the ST, this interview could easily have been double, triple the time {book PLEASE Suzanne !}. I doubt that Diana Ross locked herself in a studio for four days straight recording this, it seems perhaps it was a final mixing along with a brainstorming session on its compilation that De Passe is commenting on. How the time frame of Ross' recording sessions interwove with the filming of the movie itself ....well perhaps that did occur after filming too .... ?{book!!}

Not sure what anybody's race has to do with the accuracy of a script?? but if youre using somebody's name and life story as a vehicle of a film , it seems like an honorable objective of the movie would be to capture as much accuracy as possible [ or why do it in the first place, unless you're doing nothing more than capitalizing on a known name,] I noticed Suzanne said nothing about hitting the libraries or doing any other types of research efforts [field trips, interviews? ] about Holiday .... and maybe that detail just got left out in her recounting.

I wonder what specifically Ross objected to concerning the lack of accuracy?? What her concern was? Has anyone ever put the two together , Billie Holiday's life story and the LADY SINGS story line , and compared them side-by-side ?? Where and how much they match and where and how much they don't??

[Ollie9]

I tried to understand what De Passe was saying about the ST, this interview could easily have been double, triple the time {book PLEASE Suzanne !}. I doubt that Diana Ross locked herself in a studio for four days straight recording this, it seems perhaps it was a final mixing along with a brainstorming session on its compilation that De Passe is commenting on. How the time frame of Ross' recording sessions interwove with the filming of the movie itself ....well perhaps that did occur after filming too .... ?{book!!}

Not sure what anybody's race has to do with the accuracy of a script?? but if youre using somebody's name and life story as a vehicle of a film , it seems like an honorable objective of the movie would be to capture as much accuracy as possible [ or why do it in the first place, unless you're doing nothing more than capitalizing on a known name,] I noticed Suzanne said nothing about hitting the libraries or doing any other types of research efforts [field trips, interviews? ] about Holiday .... and maybe that detail just got left out in her recounting.

I wonder what specifically Ross objected to concerning the lack of accuracy?? What her concern was? Has anyone ever put the two together , Billie Holiday's life story and the LADY SINGS story line , and compared them side-by-side ?? Where and how much they match and where and how much they don't??

Accuracy was never a priority, with the film being very little to do with real life. To list all the films inaccuracies would take to long so i won’t even attempt.
As with Streisand and Funny Girl, LSTB was used as a vehicle to promote Diana as a global superstar. In that it was hardly breaking new ground, honourable or not.

[Boogiedown]

Accuracy was never a priority, well that's not good with the film being very little to do with real life also not good . To list all the films inaccuracies would take to long not good again so i won’t even attempt .
As with Streisand and Funny Girl, LSTB was used as a vehicle to promote Diana as a global superstar. In that it was hardly breaking new ground, honourable or not . I'll choose 'not'

My conclusion is that this was less a film about Billie and more a film about Billy.

[Ollie9]

My conclusion is that this was less a film about Billie and more a film about Billy.

I never really rated BDW very highly as an actor. It was Diana’s performance that held the film together, plus a great supporting cast.
With Mahogany it was the frocks that commanded centre stage.

[Boogiedown]

I never really rated BDW very highly as an actor. It was Diana’s performance that held the film together, plus a great supporting cast.
With Mahogany it was the frocks that commanded centre stage.

Well at the end De Passe says that Diana deserved to win the Oscar, because she had "never seen anybody work so hard " which kind of makes me grimace because it comes across as if to say Cecily Tyson and Lia Minnelli etc. didn't ?

What she didn't say was she felt Diana deserved it because she really captured Billie Holiday in her portrayal which is what good acting is supposed to be about ....

[Ollie9]

Well at the end De Passe says that Diana deserved to win the Oscar, because she had "never seen anybody work so hard " which kind of makes me grimace because it comes across as if to say Cecily Tyson and Lia Minnelli etc. didn't ?

What she didn't say was she felt Diana deserved it because she really captured Billie Holiday in her portrayal which is what good acting is supposed to be about ....

I very much agree. Most of my friends that have seen both movies consider Liza’s the better acting performance though i heartily disagree.
It was a particularly strong year in the category for best actress, with all the nominees well deserving of the recognition they received.

[sup_fan]

Accuracy was never a priority, with the film being very little to do with real life. To list all the films inaccuracies would take to long so i won’t even attempt.
As with Streisand and Funny Girl, LSTB was used as a vehicle to promote Diana as a global superstar. In that it was hardly breaking new ground, honourable or not.

that's an excellent point and comparison. Funny Girl was hardly a complete or factual biography of Fanny Brice. so why is LSTB so criticized?

[sup_fan]

I very much agree. Most of my friends that have seen both movies consider Liza’s the better acting performance though i heartily disagree.
It was a particularly strong year in the category for best actress, with all the nominees well deserving of the recognition they received.

aside from being Judy Garland's daughter and Judy's recent death, IMO there was never going to be any comparison between Lady and Cabaret. I certainly think Diana should have won too, especially given that she'd never really done ANY acting prior.

but in addition to race, the issues came down to quality. Cabaret the IN picture and had that elitest element and quality. it was cerebral, it was Fosse, there was strong social commentary, strong political messages. so the film was always going to be viewed far more favorably than Lady.

and Liza did a very good job AND had amazing choreography AND singing.

so i agree that if we look at accomplishment, Diana wins out since this was all new to hear and was a triumphant success AND she's singing a genre totally new to her. But what Liza put on film does do more than diana. if for no other reason than Diana acted and sang but Liza acted sang and danced.

[Boogiedown]

If there were a Barbra Streisand forum like this, an interesting thread would be discussing how far removed is the Fanny Brice character in the movie from the actual lady being portrayed. I have no idea . If I've ever actually watched that movie I can't recall much of it. [ Isn't there an elaborate train scene ? I recall a buddy of mine who lived in a brand new apartment complex on what was formally the MGM movie lot pointing to these rail tracks there and telling me "See these tracks they were put there for the filming of FUNNY GIRL." ]

Comparing the two movies could be fun here too. But I don't understand defending the dishonesty of one by pointing to the dishonesty of the other?? "Johnny did it, so its OK if I do it!!"

I'm not even sure what's not correct in the Brice movie??
Nor Billie Holiday's, all I've read from anyone is Ollie's statement that there's too much to mention.

One immense difference I'd say is that Billie Holiday already had an autobiography, whereas Fanny Brice did not.

But anyway, what interests me in this thread ....is this interview with Suzanne De Passe......which I find very revealing and offers quite a chunk of insight ...
Any thoughts about it Sup?

[I'm also not aware that you get extra points toward winning the Oscar because its your first time acting, not sure why you should?, but wasn't it Liza's first time too?? Not sure. That's another movie I'm only vaguely familiar with]

[johnjeb]

[I'm also not aware that you get extra points toward winning the Oscar because its your first time acting, not sure why you should?, but wasn't it Liza's first time too?? Not sure. That's another movie I'm only vaguely familiar with]

It was not Liza's first movie role or first best actress nomination. There was talk that she should have won the Oscar for a previous movie role for which she was also nominated for best actress. So her win in 1972 may have been not only for Cabaret but to acknowledge a prior performance and nomination, as well. Maybe had Diana been in another top movie with another worthy performance she may have won an Oscar. Unfortunately Motown followed LSTB with a fluff piece, Mahogany, and then there was the dreadful The Wiz.

From Wikipedia re Liza:

Minnelli's first appearance on film is as the baby in the final shot of her mother's film In the Good Old Summertime [[1949). Her first credited film role was as the love interest in Charlie Bubbles [[1967), Albert Finney's only film as director and star, although four years earlier, she did voiceover work for the animated film Journey Back to Oz, a sequel to The Wizard of Oz. Minnelli was the voice of Dorothy [[a character played in the earlier film by her mother Judy Garland) in what would have been her first credited film role had it been released in 1964 as planned—the Filmation production was delayed, eventually being released in the UK during 1972.

Minnelli appeared in The Sterile Cuckoo [[1969), Alan J. Pakula's first feature film, as Pookie Adams, a needy, eccentric teenager. Her performance was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Actress in a Leading Role. She played another eccentric character in Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon [[1970), directed by Otto Preminger.

[/B]

[sup_fan]

[I'm also not aware that you get extra points toward winning the Oscar because its your first time acting, not sure why you should?, but wasn't it Liza's first time too?? Not sure. That's another movie I'm only vaguely familiar with]

true - i don't think it being someone's first film necessarily elevates them automatically. I guess it's how you interpret the award. is it about accomplishment or just "the best" performance? for someone to come in, complete novice, and have such a performance. or for someone that had had roles in other vehicles before and comes in doing a very very good job.

like jennifer hudson. i really fail to see that she was THE MOST TALENTED SUPPORTING ACTRESS. she did a fine job, especially when you consider it her very first film. but i would guess that someone, somewhere in some film frankly had a better performance. but i don't mind that jennifer won BECAUSE it was the fact of the accomplishment

so that gets back to my earlier post. Diana had a major accomplishment and sang and acted. Liza continued her acting and experience with her wonderful role in Cabaret and she sang, acted and danced. plus the fact of Cabaret being a "serious" film while Lady is "just another romance". plus the racism.

[sup_fan]

with comparing Funny Girl and Lady, Barbra won the Academy Award for FG. i would say Lady is a strong project, a better story and script and far more challenging music. frankly the music is about the only redeeming thing IMO about FG and it was pretty much scored specifically for Barbra. she did an amazing job of course but it wasn't pushing her into new territory or doing something she wasn't already highly proficient in. For Diana to do what she did with the songs for Lady was nothing short of amazing. how on earth that was overlooked for a Grammy?!?!?!?!

[Boogiedown]

Hard to compare the two since they weren't vying for the same awards the same year.

I can see how a first time acting role can play in a person's favor. This would especially be true for an unknown actor who then more easily becomes believable as the person they are portraying. In the case of Diana Ross, I'm not sure she actually fully stops being Diana Ross pretending to be somebody. I feel like Richard Pryor sticks out in the same way.

But then, I did not see LADY at the time of the release ....so I cant testify as to how successful that transition was at the time. I have viewed it since with the interest of it being Diana Ross, so its tainted in my viewing it in that way.
[ this is one reason movies don't often work for me. If I sense fake I tune out. If he doesn't ever stop being Johnny Depp or Tom Cruise for me while on the screen , I'm out.]

And how hard is it for a talented singer to play the part of another known singer ...and to present their versions to sort of resemble the others existing songs?
Then , yes to be ignored for a Grammy....perhaps when not coming from the angle of championing Diana Ross , her performances are not that spectacular??

Is Ross's role moving ?? Heartbreaking? Was the theater full of patrons reaching for their hankies? I see I have to watch it again ....

Now back to De Passe..........

[sup_fan]

DePasse mentions doing double duty around this time. working on Lady AND working on the general creative side of the music division.

IMO Lady a HUGE win for Diana and instrumental in elevating her to superstar status. but at the same time, it was instrumental in the general decline of the music division. so much company focus was on the movie that they lost their edge in the music scene and weren't really as relevant any more. look at how the supremes and tops drifted. J5 was starting to decline at this time too. MRATV were done for. the Temps, Stevie and Marvin were the only really big stars now.

so maybe Suzanne was spread too thin. i also pin some of the blame on Ewart Abner, the Pres of Motown Records at the time. he just didn't seem capable of handling things or pushing things forward

[Ollie9]

Billie Holliday was as much like the character Diana portrayed in the film as elephants to prunes. The same with Barbra’s portrayal of Fanny Brice in Funny Girl.
If you can overlook that fact and just enjoy the films for what they are, both make for wonderful entertainment.
Both movies are crammed full of inaccuracies. With LSTB the timelines are wrong. Louis McKay was her third husband and also quite abusive. Billie did not wear designer stage clothes, but rather dresses bought from a regular store. It was not a band member that introduced Billie to hard drugs but most likely her first husband.. Piano man is a fictional character etc etc.
Similarities being, both women were superstar singers who’s finest acting performance was in their film debuts.
I think had the films been released the same year Barbra would have won, but not necessarily for the right reasons.

[Spreadinglove21]

Here's a web link to an article on inaccuracies of Funny Girl

http://barbra-archives.com/bjs_libra..._debunked.html

[paul_nixon]

Billie Holliday was as much like the character Diana portrayed in the film as elephants to prunes. The same with Barbra’s portrayal of Fanny Brice in Funny Girl.
If you can overlook that fact and just enjoy the films for what they are, both make for wonderful entertainment.
Both movies are crammed full of inaccuracies. With LSTB the timelines are wrong. Louis McKay was her third husband and also quite abusive. Billie did not wear designer stage clothes, but rather dresses bought from a regular store. It was not a band member that introduced Billie to hard drugs but most likely her first husband.. Piano man is a fictional character etc etc.
Similarities being, both women were superstar singers who’s finest acting performance was in their film debuts.
I think had the films been released the same year Barbra would have won, but not necessarily for the right reasons.

I am so pleased she managed to throw in Chris Clark's name into the mix as she was a very big part of that movie.

[Boogiedown]

Billie Holliday was as much like the character Diana portrayed in the film as elephants to prunes. The same with Barbra’s portrayal of Fanny Brice in Funny Girl.
If you can overlook that fact and just enjoy the films for what they are, both make for wonderful entertainment. This I don't get. What's wonderfully entertaining about watching a druggie continue down a rabbit hole until it kills her--- in spite of having a handsome lover who stands by her [as presented], fine clothes and lifestyle [as presented], people who care, all while building success through her talent , ...... especially even after being directly responsible for the death of her best friend who is killed right in front of her [as presented].
Both movies are crammed full of inaccuracies. With LSTB the timelines are wrong. Louis McKay was her third husband and also quite abusive. Billie did not wear designer stage clothes, but rather dresses bought from a regular store. It was not a band member that introduced Billie to hard drugs but most likely her first husband.. Piano man is a fictional character etc etc. Piano man is not even a real person in Billie's life ?, geesh he's central to the movie's plot as much as anybody.
Similarities being, both women were superstar singers who’s finest acting performance was in their film debuts.
I think had the films been released the same year Barbra would have won, but not necessarily for the right reasons.

You're right elephants and prunes, this movie has very little to do with Billie Holiday except to tap into [steal] her music and to hammer the point she was a hopeless self-centered drug addict.

I wonder if Chris Clark was asked to also attend this event ....

[Ollie9]

You're right elephants and prunes, this movie has very little to do with Billie Holiday except to tap into [steal] her music and to hammer the point she was a hopeless self-centered drug addict.

I wonder if Chris Clark was asked to also attend this event ....

As with marmite Boog, I guess you either love it or hate it. For me it would have been worth the price of a ticket just to watch Diana perform “Good Morning Heartache”.
I would imagine Chis was at the premiere, especially with Diana not in attendance.

[Boogiedown]

As with marmite Boog, I guess you either love it or hate it. For me it would have been worth the price of a ticket just to watch Diana perform “Good Morning Heartache”.
I would imagine Chis was at the premiere, especially with Diana not in attendance. why wasn't Diana there?? and why would that matter to Chris?

[I was referring to her joining in with this DePasse interview ]

yes the two lady hosts bragged that between them they'd seen the movie easily over a hundred times. I can't imagine willingly enduring this bleak account repeatedly .
I suppose Billy Dee could've caused one the vapors when he appears in his mandated shirtless scene , but even at that , five times max ... .


here ya go Ollie, and as A&S might say ...it don't cost you nothin'

[reese]

would imagine Chis was at the premiere, especially with Diana not in attendance. why wasn't Diana there?? and why would that matter to Chris?

Diana was close to giving birth and her doctor wouldn't allow her to fly.

[TheMotownManiac]

Diana was close to giving birth and her doctor wouldn't allow her to fly.

it’s a shame, as I could only imagine what a knockout she would’ve been that night!

[sup_fan]

it’s a shame, as I could only imagine what a knockout she would’ve been that night!

i know - i can only imagine the massive disappointment. girl should have gone Amtrak then

[Boogiedown]

true - i don't think it being someone's first film necessarily elevates them automatically. I guess it's how you interpret the award. is it about accomplishment or just "the best" performance? for someone to come in, complete novice, and have such a performance. or for someone that had had roles in other vehicles before and comes in doing a very very good job.

like jennifer hudson. i really fail to see that she was THE MOST TALENTED SUPPORTING ACTRESS. she did a fine job, especially when you consider it her very first film. but i would guess that someone, somewhere in some film frankly had a better performance. but i don't mind that jennifer won BECAUSE it was the fact of the accomplishment

so that gets back to my earlier post. Diana had a major accomplishment and sang and acted. Liza continued her acting and experience with her wonderful role in Cabaret and she sang, acted and danced. plus the fact of Cabaret being a "serious" film while Lady is "just another romance". plus the racism.

I place no value on awards. It's an empty concept that someone pretending to be a clown did a better job than someone's pretending to be a monster.

Are you saying if only Diana had additionally danced in LADY it could've been a tie result with Liza?? You're making it sound like Liza having danced gave her the edge...

[sup_fan]

I place no value on awards. It's an empty concept that someone pretending to be a clown did a better job than someone's pretending to be a monster.

Are you saying if only Diana had additionally danced in LADY it could've been a tie result with Liza?? You're making it sound like Liza having danced gave her the edge...

Liza did more than just a little jig and a box step. she was doing hard core Fosse choreography. this isn't just some gliding hand gesture like the Sups did for I Hear A Symphony.

what i was trying to show was that, supposedly since obviously i wasn't there, the Academy would have been looking at both performances to compare. both actresses did fine jobs with the dramatic, with the singing. but laying in the choreography adds more to Liza's work. then you add to that all of the other points about this being a "serious" picture and smart and how they owed it to Judy etc etc etc

[Boogiedown]

Liza did more than just a little jig and a box step. she was doing hard core Fosse choreography. this isn't just some gliding hand gesture like the Sups did for I Hear A Symphony.

what i was trying to show was that, supposedly since obviously i wasn't there, the Academy would have been looking at both performances to compare. both actresses did fine jobs with the dramatic, with the singing. but laying in the choreography adds more to Liza's work. then you add to that all of the other points about this being a "serious" picture and smart and how they owed it to Judy etc etc etc

ahhh, I think I remember CABARET had me looking at my watch [or was it ALL THAT JAZZ or are they the same movie ] ... probably too much song and all that dancing for me ... what would be more "serious" about it over a hopeless junkie dying just as she was hitting her full stride [the end] ??

You're making it sound like there's an actual academy that seriously gathers and literally pits these movies against each other discussing them bit by bit ...... is that what takes place ??

My impression is that its just a mail in your vote process ......
guess I should research ....

this isn't just some gliding hand gesture like the Sups did for I Hear A Symphony

hee haw !!

[Ollie9]

I always thought rightly or wrongly the academy award for best actress was based on achievement. What bigger achievement could there be then for a singer with such little acting experience to deliver a heart wrenching performance such as Diana’s.
After all, the award wasn’t for best film in which Cabaret might just have had the edge.