Supreme Mixes and Alternates

[RanRan79]

Just curious, but does anyone have any thoughts on which Supremes' song has the most versions? I'm talking different mixes and/or different alternate vocals.

I was thinking "You Can't Hurry Love" might have the most, but then there's "Love Is Here and Now You're Gone", both of which seem to have a "ton" of different mixes and alternate vocals.

What made me wonder was that I was listening to "Someday We'll Be Together", with the tambourine opening, and then followed it up by listening to the version without the tambourine opening. I love the tambourine opening but the mix I have has Diana buried in the music vs the version without. So I wondered if there's a version of it with the tambourine opening and also doesn't have Diana buried in the mix?

That got me to wondering about all the different mixes of Supremes songs. I'm not the completist many of you are. I do not buy the shit ton of compilations that have been released because my mind is always "I have these songs already". The problem with that mentality is that sometimes superior mixes appear on these comps, and since I didn't buy it, I don't have the superior mix in my collection.

Anyway, in addition to which songs have the most mixes and alternates, which ones do you find that are noteworthy superior to the others?

[Thornton]

I've always liked the tambourine intro to Someday, but I'll have to pay closer to where Diana's vocals are in the mix.

My favorite mix of "Love Child" is the original 45 version that appears on the 50th-anniversary box set. Again, it's the way the tambourine is brought forward in the intro that gives the song an extra "kick."

[thanxal]

Oh Ran!
This is my obsession [[different mixes). I’ve tried to collect them all over the years and my master “alternative mix” play list is exceptionally long [[about 45 tracks). I’ve never gone through it categorically to make sure I have every one, but it must be close. There was a great CD years ago that had many I had never heard, but think it must be out of circulation. It had a pink cover and was called something like “alternative, rare, and unreleased”. I think I have it somewhere.

The problem with an obsession on the alternates is that I find the original releases too tame or boring. Sometimes I don’t even remember what the original sounds like since I only listen to the alternate versions.

But to your question, are you asking only about “official” alternates, eg. those released by the companies in charge [[e.g. Motown, Universal), or are you also including YouTube remixes? If the former, there are multiple alternates on the A Go Go CD set, but either LILAIIMH or LIHANYG have to be up there for official alternate versions.

Thankfully George and Andy started throwing in lots of alternates on the EE discs, so we have ALOT to hear.

[RanRan79]

I've always liked the tambourine intro to Someday, but I'll have to pay closer to where Diana's vocals are in the mix.

My favorite mix of "Love Child" is the original 45 version that appears on the 50th-anniversary box set. Again, it's the way the tambourine is brought forward in the intro that gives the song an extra "kick."

I don't have the 50th anniversary set. If I'm not mistaken, it's definitely one of the comps that contains some different mixes, as I've seen referenced sometimes in the forum. I regret I didn't get it. I'll have to see if it's still in print.

"Love Child" has a couple different mixes and alternates. I think my fav is the one on the Number Ones release, but the song itself isn't a particular favorite of mine so I'm not sure my opinion is saying much.

[thanxal]

I don't have the 50th anniversary set. If I'm not mistaken, it's definitely one of the comps that contains some different mixes, as I've seen referenced sometimes in the forum. I regret I didn't get it. I'll have to see if it's still in print.

"Love Child" has a couple different mixes and alternates. I think my fav is the one on the Number Ones release, but the song itself isn't a particular favorite of mine so I'm not sure my opinion is saying much.

The 50th has alternates from the No-Hit and DRATS era, none from DMF. The other gem of alternates was the Let Yourself Go boxed set. I love, love, love the alternates on that set.

Edit: You really should get the 50th boxed set. It's all mono and when you want really loud and really clear, there is none better.

[RanRan79]

Oh Ran!
This is my obsession [[different mixes). I’ve tried to collect them all over the years and my master “alternative mix” play list is exceptionally long [[about 45 tracks). I’ve never gone through it categorically to make sure I have every one, but it must be close. There was a great CD years ago that had many I had never heard, but think it must be out of circulation. It had a pink cover and was called something like “alternative, rare, and unreleased”. I think I have it somewhere.

The problem with an obsession on the alternates is that I find the original releases too tame or boring. Sometimes I don’t even remember what the original sounds like since I only listen to the alternate versions.

But to your question, are you asking only about “official” alternates, eg. those released by the companies in charge [[e.g. Motown, Universal), or are you also including YouTube remixes? If the former, there are multiple alternates on the A Go Go CD set, but either LILAIIMH or LIHANYG have to be up there for official alternate versions.

Thankfully George and Andy started throwing in lots of alternates on the EE discs, so we have ALOT to hear.

Well it looks like you're the only one obsessed [[or interested) in the subject. Maybe I should have thrown in some RTL references. That always gets the forum jumping.

Al, I have the same issue with the alternates that you do. I find myself playing those more often and when I hear the originals or mixes that I had once been accustomed to, the older versions seem to pale in comparison.

Yes, I was referring to official alternates. I'll even allow for bootlegged alternates, like some of the ones that have yet to have an official release but have been leaked for years.

When it comes to the EE sets, my fingers are always crossed for never before heard songs. Seems like it's been a minute since we've gotten an actual brand new Supremes song from the 60s Supremes. I think "For Once In My Life" was the last one. Anyway, that sometimes takes a bit of the excitement out of the releases, as I remember what it was like when we were getting loads of new songs like on the Meet EE and the WDOLG EE, etc. However, what the guys did with the A Go Go EE was pure gold. They took some of the most bland songs of the sessions- like "What the World Needs Now" and "Hang On Sloopy"- and gave them new life. The mix of "Mother Dear 66" on the A Go Go EE is probably my favorite of that set. The one on the 2000 box set was already a favorite. I couldn't imagine it being any better. I was knocked over by the EE version. The guys out did themselves, so now, while I keep my fingers crossed for a new song, I look forward to hearing what new takes the guys have on the originally released songs. I look forward to hearing what magic they've worked on an old favorite or how they might make me hear an old dud with new ears.

Sometimes, though, I can't really tell the difference in some of the mixes. We've gotten a few mixes of "Come and Get These Memories" that all pretty much sound the same to me. Same with "Ooowee Baby". I just don't hear the differences. Maybe I'm not listening close enough.

[RanRan79]

The 50th has alternates from the No-Hit and DRATS era, none from DMF. The other gem of alternates was the Let Yourself Go boxed set. I love, love, love the alternates on that set.

Edit: You really should get the 50th boxed set. It's all mono and when you want really loud and really clear, there is none better.

I'll definitely look for the 50th set.

Yes, yes, yes to the LYG set! The alternates really took the set over the top.

[thanxal]

Well it looks like you're the only one obsessed [[or interested) in the subject. Maybe I should have thrown in some RTL references. That always gets the forum jumping.

I wouldn't get too worried. You only posted this today and the forum is slowing down, meaning some of ya'll are getting older.

[thanxal]

I'll definitely look for the 50th set.

Yes, yes, yes to the LYG set! The alternates really took the set over the top.

And who could forget the Mary Wilson set? It's nearly all alternates. I fell out of my chair [[while posting here) when live listening to Automatically Sunshine. I can't listen to the original version anymore I love the alternate so much!

[danman869]

Which of the songs on DRATS 50th set are actually alternate mixes? In the case of "Love Child," on TCMS 8, there is the original single mix coming in at 3:00 and an alternate mix clocking at 2:54. Does DRATS50 contain yet *another* previously unheard mix? Of course, there's also the extended version with extra verse on Lost & Found...but that's not necessarily an alternate mix as much as an alternate version.

I'd honestly thought that all material contained on the DRATS 50th set was just repeated/sourced from the TCMS series because they were supposed to be all the original single versions/mixes. While I own DRATS50, it was mainly a purchase to add to my collection. Am I sitting on a little goldmine...?

[RanRan79]

I wouldn't get too worried. You only posted this today and the forum is slowing down, meaning some of ya'll are getting older.

Some of them. Some of them are getting older.

[RanRan79]

And who could forget the Mary Wilson set? It's nearly all alternates. I fell out of my chair [[while posting here) when live listening to Automatically Sunshine. I can't listen to the original version anymore I love the alternate so much!

Same! Lol The new alternate has so much more life than the original. I proclaimed recently that "Automatically Sunshine" had the potential to be a massive hit. I have to caution myself to be certain that when I make that proclamation, that I return to the original version and not the one on Mary's set. It's a fantastic mix.

[RanRan79]

Which of the songs on DRATS 50th set are actually alternate mixes? In the case of "Love Child," on TCMS 8, there is the original single mix coming in at 3:00 and an alternate mix clocking at 2:54. Does DRATS50 contain yet *another* previously unheard mix? Of course, there's also the extended version with extra verse on Lost & Found...but that's not necessarily an alternate mix as much as an alternate version.

I'd honestly thought that all material contained on the DRATS 50th set was just repeated/sourced from the TCMS series because they were supposed to be all the original single versions/mixes. While I own DRATS50, it was mainly a purchase to add to my collection. Am I sitting on a little goldmine...?

Dan I can't speak about the 50th set, but in regards to "Love Child", the version on the Number Ones set clocks in at 3:14. But also in the case of alternate versions, this thread is also for that discussion.

[Sotosound]

What works on radio is rather different to what works on a good system, and a lot of the things that we might criticise about mixes tend to matter far less when listened to on radio.

Getting something to sound great under both circumstances is the big ask. To my ears, Motown sometimes got this right and sometimes didn't.

"Automatically Sunshine" was big in the UK, and it sounded great on radio as a summer song, although I did find it slightly underwhelming "in the vinyl flesh".

Having said that, for me the appeal of the track is in the chorus, which came across loud and clear through all media back in the day, and the majority of buyers will have bought it for that catchy chorus and not cared at all about the finer points of the mix.

[daviddh]

I think, you keep me hanging on, had 6 original mixs b4 it's release
My favorite being the Motown box set .

[bradsupremes]

What works on radio is rather different to what works on a good system, and a lot of the things that we might criticise about mixes tend to matter far less when listened to on radio.

Getting something to sound great under both circumstances is the big ask. To my ears, Motown sometimes got this right and sometimes didn't.

"Automatically Sunshine" was big in the UK, and it sounded great on radio as a summer song, although I did find it slightly underwhelming "in the vinyl flesh".

Having said that, for me the appeal of the track is in the chorus, which came across loud and clear through all media back in the day, and the majority of buyers will have bought it for that catchy chorus and not cared at all about the finer points of the mix.

I prefer stereo mixes, but there are some tracks that lost a lot of their oomph when mixed in stereo. The Marvelettes’ “I’ll Keep Holding On” is one that comes to mind. The single mono mix is raw, loud, in your face, and packs a punch. One of the finest examples of the Motown Sound. The drums sound like they are being beaten with a tree. And yet every stereo mix of the song I’ve heard is so light, all the punch lost. Kim Weston’s “A Little More Love” is another one - the first mono mix with the heavy reverb on the strings is like entering heaven. It sounds like 2 million strings are playing. And then there’s the stereo mix with the second vocal on Kim’s Motown Anthology collection and it sounds like a small concerto. Both songs deserve good stereo mixes using similar reverb and levels the way their mono counterparts are mixed at.

[sup_fan]

and just to add to the craziness

there are different mixes for some of the live performances

if you listen to LC on Sullivan when the first performed it and lip synced, it's a different mix than any of the released versions. the backing vocals are VERY prominent. also when they start verse one "Started my life, in a..." right on the downbeat of Started, the piano is very prominent in the track and, although the overall song is in a minor key, this piano chord is a major chord.

Also listen to IGLMHDTW on Soul Train. totally different mix

with Nathan Jones, there is great variety too. i'm not sure if it's really a different mix or just different quality of the cd. for instance, to my ear, the version used on Greatest Hits and Rare Classics has some of the best and most prominent synthesizer effects. the whole "jet engine" sound.

[thanxal]

I prefer stereo mixes

It’s nice to meet the other person on earth who agrees! Most of the time it’s all “blah, blah! I ONLY LISTEN TO MONO!!!” on such music forums. It’s fun to explain just how many “Mono” mixes are actually stereo fold-downs and then what a fold-down is!

[bradsupremes]

and just to add to the craziness

there are different mixes for some of the live performances

if you listen to LC on Sullivan when the first performed it and lip synced, it's a different mix than any of the released versions. the backing vocals are VERY prominent. also when they start verse one "Started my life, in a..." right on the downbeat of Started, the piano is very prominent in the track and, although the overall song is in a minor key, this piano chord is a major chord.

Also listen to IGLMHDTW on Soul Train. totally different mix

with Nathan Jones, there is great variety too. i'm not sure if it's really a different mix or just different quality of the cd. for instance, to my ear, the version used on Greatest Hits and Rare Classics has some of the best and most prominent synthesizer effects. the whole "jet engine" sound.

There are many others too...

I'm pretty sure the mix of "Up The Ladder To The Roof" on Ed Sullivan is different from the mixes we have.

"Bad Weather" on Soul Train is a completely different mix - better than what was issued. The piano is white hot in that Soul Train mix. It's nearly non exist in the single mix.

The question is whether these mixes were mixed specifically for TV or if Motown pulled whatever they found. It was not uncommon for a song to have multiple mixes before Motown selected which one sounded best. No doubt the mixes for "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" heard on Soul Train and American Bandstand were considered for single release.

[sup_fan]

There are many others too...

I'm pretty sure the mix of "Up The Ladder To The Roof" on Ed Sullivan is different from the mixes we have.

"Bad Weather" on Soul Train is a completely different mix - better than what was issued. The piano is white hot in that Soul Train mix. It's nearly non exist in the single mix.

The question is whether these mixes were mixed specifically for TV or if Motown pulled whatever they found. It was not uncommon for a song to have multiple mixes before Motown selected which one sounded best. No doubt the mixes for "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" heard on Soul Train and American Bandstand were considered for single release.

that's a great question - did they purposely create new mixes for tv? and with what purpose? to enhance the sound even more and make it sound better than the single? so why not just make the single better

on Tom Jones when they did SL, the harps in the intro are just going wild. like the gates of heaven have opened

and yes, Ladder is totally different. almost a different song on Sullivan than the lp or single. and of course the mono single version is quite different from the stereo lp version

and Bill When Are You Coming Home is a totally different vocal take from Jean between the single version and the lp one.

[reese]

that's a great question - did they purposely create new mixes for tv? and with what purpose? to enhance the sound even more and make it sound better than the single? so why not just make the single better

It is a great question. I would suspect that the mixes weren't finalized when certain tv appearances were made or as someone noted above, maybe Motown just pulled the first tape they found.

I recall this happened with other acts as well. When the J5 appeared on Hollywood Palace to debut I WANT YOU BACK, they lip-synced to a mix that I don't think was actually released until many years later.

Another example: I remember when Aretha debuted her ALMIGHTY FIRE on American Bandstand. She lipsynced to a version that was never released commercially, with some of the multi-tracked vocals missing and a natural ending as opposed to the fade on the single and the single.

[sup_fan]

actually motown had been mixing "live" versions of their tunes for years. usually they let the lead singer sing live though with the pre-recorded tracks. Look at things like YCHL, Happening, Forever Came Today, In and Out, etc. maybe the Ladder track was meant to be the "live" version but then people got nervous with this being Jean's debut and decided to not risk her making a mistake or something. and so they recorded her too and had her lip sync

for the Nothing Can Stop Us Now piece, is Jean singing live?

[reese]

actually motown had been mixing "live" versions of their tunes for years. usually they let the lead singer sing live though with the pre-recorded tracks. Look at things like YCHL, Happening, Forever Came Today, In and Out, etc. maybe the Ladder track was meant to be the "live" version but then people got nervous with this being Jean's debut and decided to not risk her making a mistake or something. and so they recorded her too and had her lip sync

for the Nothing Can Stop Us Now piece, is Jean singing live?

Jean is singing live on the NCSUN medley. At one point, she mistakenly sings "I'm eating fancy vow" instead of chow.

Starting with LOVE CHILD, all of the new releases [except SOMEDAY] were lipsynced on Sullivan.

[sup_fan]

Jean is singing live on the NCSUN medley. At one point, she mistakenly sings "I'm eating fancy vow" instead of chow.

Starting with LOVE CHILD, all of the new releases [except SOMEDAY] were lipsynced on Sullivan.

i've wondered about Someday too. i know Diana is holding a mic but the song fades out instead of "ends" so made me wonder if she was actually lip syncing.

i too had thought Jean was live in NCSUN as there are a few notes that are 100% perfect in pitch. nothing majorly wrong. just those teeny tiny details you pick up on after watching it again and again

[reese]

i've wondered about Someday too. i know Diana is holding a mic but the song fades out instead of "ends" so made me wonder if she was actually lip syncing.

i too had thought Jean was live in NCSUN as there are a few notes that are 100% perfect in pitch. nothing majorly wrong. just those teeny tiny details you pick up on after watching it again and again

I think SOMEDAY is Diana's live vocal to the original backing track.

But I think the last Diana appearance was taped, everything from the mike switch during the hits medley to the canned applause points to this.

[sup_fan]

I think SOMEDAY is Diana's live vocal to the original backing track.

But I think the last Diana appearance was taped, everything from the mike switch during the hits medley to the canned applause points to this.

that could be. and then there's the mysterious disappearing mic head. during Love Child in the medley it breaks or something happens.

[daviddh]

Forever Came Today was a song that took a while to grow on me
there are several mixs of this song and i think my favorite was the Japenese Hits and Alternate mixs album. was hoping for a expanded edition as this was one song i was hoping Kevin Reeves would do new mix on

[sup_fan]

Forever Came Today was a song that took a while to grow on me
there are several mixs of this song and i think my favorite was the Japenese Hits and Alternate mixs album. was hoping for a expanded edition as this was one song i was hoping Kevin Reeves would do new mix on

i like the single version of Forever with the additional backing vocals

[jim aka jtigre99]

I think as fans we really enjoy hearing remixes and alternates because we sometimes hear things we all personally like better than the released version. I would have to say that usually the released version is better because it has to have a sound that would appeal more to the mass public. The alternates gives us fans something else to hear but most would not have done as well if released instead. For me, personally, 2 exceptions would be the alternate takes on Automatically Sunshine and Touch. I think both might have fared a bit better than the released versions. Personally, I really enjoy those alternates and think they would have translated better to the mass public. IMHO

[Motown Eddie]

Anyway, in addition to which songs have the most mixes and alternates, which ones do you find that are noteworthy superior to the others?

I say that the Extended "Supremixes" of "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart", "Going Down For The Third Time" and the "tamborine" mix of "Someday We'll Be Together" are better than their original versions.

[thanxal]

I say that the Extended "Supremixes" of "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart", "Going Down For The Third Time" and the "tamborine" mix of "Someday We'll Be Together" are better than their original versions.

I completely agree with these. The Supremixes of LILAIIMH are phenomenal and the organ intro to SWBT is great. There is also an extended bridge mix of Nothing But Heartaches that is also worth mentioning, only because that song has to be one of their biggest missed #1s [[along with LILAIIMH, of course).

[thanxal]

Another two mixes I forgot about until this thread are I hear a Symphony and My World is Empty Without You from the Symphony EE. They are ones I only play the alternates and completely forgot they were alternate mixes. I especially love how the guys bumped up Mary and Flo on MWIEWY. I can't listen to the original mix without my brain filing them in. The alt intro to Symphony gives it some class.

[sup_fan]

I think as fans we really enjoy hearing remixes and alternates because we sometimes hear things we all personally like better than the released version. I would have to say that usually the released version is better because it has to have a sound that would appeal more to the mass public. The alternates gives us fans something else to hear but most would not have done as well if released instead. For me, personally, 2 exceptions would be the alternate takes on Automatically Sunshine and Touch. I think both might have fared a bit better than the released versions. Personally, I really enjoy those alternates and think they would have translated better to the mass public. IMHO

the version of AS on the Mary Wilson Anthology is a treasure. to hear the song without any cuts or edits. there's so much more instrumentation! i like the FJ album but it could come across as a bit thin. so maybe some additional instruments would have given a more robust sound. the previously released longer versions always had these sort of awkward instrumental breaks that just didn't seem to make sense. in the full version, they fit better

and how about this for an alt version!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acDSoknXSks

[RanRan79]

I think SOMEDAY is Diana's live vocal to the original backing track.

I'm pretty sure the vocal is live. Mary's "say it" line does not sound like something pre-recorded. It sounds exactly like you might expect it to sound registering on a live mic she isn't holding in her own hand.