Just a chime....or??

[144man]

At my age, I feel that I want to enjoy my food. I read somewhere you have to be one-third overweight before it causes long-term health difficulties. Therefore I do allow myself the occasional bar of chocolate, usually at the weekend. Sometimes if you have a craving for a particular food, it's your body's way of telling you that you have a deficiency in some constituent such as bananas for potassium.

The main reason I decided to lose weight was because after walking I was getting pains in my knees, and I felt my legs might not be able to carry me.

[westgrandboulevard]

Absolutely. Life is no good if we don't enjoy our food. And we should listen to our body - but also our instincts, especially when the '???' signals start to appear.

I think people often kid a little when on diets - like the number of cigarettes that smokers say they smoke.

Metabolism, and the length of time for the excess weight to have been gained, must make a difference in the time taken to lose it.

Not doubting you moe, but is it an actual fact that men lose weight faster than women?

[144man]

Like I said: there is no "one" diet that works for everyone. If there was then everyone would shed those pounds. However, I can't agree with using low fat dressing. Not good on a low carb diet [[look at the contents and the values)
Why is it that men lose faster than women?

I'm not on a regimented diet. I just use various broad-brush principles to govern what I eat; and it works for me without having to work out calorie intake.

I didn't know men lost faster than women, but when I lose weight quickly I put it back on just as fast. I generally aim for losing a steady two pounds a week.

[westgrandboulevard]

I'd hate to have to actually calculate calories. Thankfully, not had to do it yet. What a bore....

Achievement of a target, whatever it is, does have a real feel-good factor

[moe]

You men do lose faster. I believe it may have to do with hormones........more later

[Jerry Oz]

I don't like to think that what I'm doing is a "diet" per se. It's more like a diet change. My principles have altered with age and I've come to view life in general with different eyes. I'm less inclined to squash a bug in my house [[other than flies and spiders) than I am to put it in a jar and let it go. I don't step on ants or beetles or spiders that I see in the warehouse that I work without thought anymore, either. And I find that I don't want to eat meat. People assume it's because of religion or a desire to lose weight, but it's not. I'm not really sure what it is, but it's strong enough that I went cold turkey over a month ago without any pangs since then. Sadly, I'm still eating fish, but I see the day coming when that won't happen either.

[westgrandboulevard]

Sounds like there's a heightened awareness of conscience working in there....or maybe, for whatever reason, just wishing for a brand new Jerry...

[144man]

I don't much like the idea of eating animals, but that's the way we evolved/ were created. I like the taste of meat too much to give it up, but I hope the day comes soon when it is grown in tanks, and no animals have to be slaughtered.

[Jerry Oz]

Test tube meat is the creepiest concept of the 21st century. I'm actually okay with eating meat so long as it wasn't raised on a farm. I don't care much for eating something that you raised and cared for before killing it. If it wandered into your yard and a tree branch falls on it, let me know and I'll be there before you turn the oven off. Okay, that last sentence isn't quite true. But I do have an issue with trust and betrayal.

[westgrandboulevard]

I've wondered about that issue myself but, if meat were raised artificially,it would of course mean that much of our domestic livestock would not be needed, and would disappear.

As even the animals which produce milk and eggs have to be slaughtered, the loss of the meat producing stock would seem to put us no further forward....

[Jerry Oz]

Beats eating Soylent Green, though, doesn't it? I don't know if you heard about it, but Soylent Green is made of people.

[144man]

I find nothing creepy in test tube meat, and think its consumption would be preferable to causing the demise of a conscious creature. I hadn't thought about what might happen to existing livestock that was no longer needed.

I read Soylent Green years ago. Somehow I've never seen the film.

[westgrandboulevard]

It does beat eating Soylent Green, Jerry - and I'm certainly aware of it - but it would seem that cannibalism still continues in certain parts of the world.

I don't have too much of a problem with the eating of meat, more the methods of slaughter of the livestock, which can't be allowed to die naturally. However, even human bodies can be subject to autopsy/partial rendering down after death so, to that point, I don't see a huge difference in the process.

[Jerry Oz]

At the risk of sounding insane: My problem with eating meat is based upon the role I see of a benevolent God who provides my needs for me. The 23rd Psalm kind of explains the relationship from the vantage point of the sheep toward a shepherd. My problem is that [[silly as it may sound) the relationship that the livestock has with the farmer is not much different than the relationship a pet owner has with a cat or dog - from the standpoint of the livestock, not the farmer. So, the cow comes to rely on the farmer to meet its needs. The farmer fosters this relationship with the cow. Ultimately, I'm somewhat disturbed to consider that my provider can be my murderer. It's not a religious viewpoint; it's more of a personal thing. I know that it's nutty to everybody but me, but it's kind of how I want to be at this point in my life.

[westgrandboulevard]

Nothing insane or silly there at all, Jerry. I wouldn't say you're wrong, and also wouldn't want to change your belief.

I would gently submit that your sensitive feelings have much to do with your complex, intelligent perception of how a human should be towards animals, and of how the animals may be towards humans, but also perhaps complicated by the way that Nature, in fact, really is.

It's so late here it's early [[!) - I may need to explain later what I mean,and present it a bit better LOL

[moe]

Sleep well everyone!

[moe]

...........and another day begins!!

[144man]

I'm just off to lunch.

[westgrandboulevard]

Jerry, some more thoughts on your comments regarding the relationship between humans and domestic livestock.....

It is for man to use his 'superior' intelligence wisely, and to manage his livestock to the best of his ability, from beginning of their lives to the end. With intelligence and education comes responsibility, but the farmer also has to manage his livestock well for economic reasons. It's his business, and his livelihood depends on it.

In contrast, the livestock exist on instinct, and do not understand how the human/farmer thinks or feels. Their instinct guides them as and when necessary, and they simply accept everything as it comes. They respond well to good husbandry, and do not worry about today, let alone tomorrow, but will not thrive under poor conditions or management. Their overriding instinct will sometimes even cause them to kill the farmer, should he make an error in his management of them.

The animals have no need of a God, or to debate if there may or may not be one. Their instinct is simply to eat and reproduce. If food is provided by man, partially or in total, they accept it, if it is the food they want to eat. Otherwise, they will refuse it. If they do refuse it , it's not a personal feeling towards the farmer, in terms of any feelings that we humans would understand. They keep breathing and running until the very time comes to die,then they lay down, and await the end.

Life for humans is all about our perception, which works on countless levels. In contrast, the purring cat which rubs around my legs, apparently affectionately, is simply obeying her instincts, and marking her own territory. It is an accepted habit that I provide food, and she will continue with the arrangement [[and, in my eyes, my responsibility), unless something causes her to look elsewhere. I am her carer, she is my pet. I can view her as 'understanding' me if I wish, but she is still livestock. If, overnight, she were magically to increase many times in size, I would no longer be her carer. I would become her prey. If I were to die at home, the minute my heart stops beating, my body is of no use to me. If the cat is confined with my body and both go unnoticed, it is likely she will eventually, through her natural instinct to eat, then start to gnaw the parts of my body she can reach. That is the order of things, despite the endless sophistication of our lives.

They are all noble creatures. We should never let them down, lest we let ourselves down.Personally, in times when I am in need of some quiet contemplation, I can obtain all the inspiration I need from studying nature, and the cycles involved. In that way, I can understand how it works, and that I do fit in with it, and have a place which I must earn, as do all the infinite varieties of other species on the planet, including my fellow man. When the presence of any of us is no longer valid, we have therefore played our part, and become extinct.

[Jerry Oz]

Excellent post, WGB. As I grow older, I'm looking more into the dynamics of relationships. Trust, faith, and credibility are all very important to me and any breech thereof is troublesome. A cow will run from a predator, most animals will. However, a lifetime of nurturing and provision leads even that simple animal to do as it is prompted to by its master. Even as he walks it to slaughter. There's something about that that plays on my mind in a major way.

It's hard to describe why I feel the way that I do, but I feel better from a mental standpoint since I made my decision. I am cool with anyone who does not ascribe to my point of view because it's personal to me. I don't even try to convince people that I am right, but I am starting to view the world more from without than within and I want to believe that somehow I can make it better.

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, I can give myself a hard time over it too, which I then have to rationalise.

I do admire your viewpoint Jerry, as it seems to have been based on an increased awareness of the facts, rather than just simply selecting the meat in a supermarket, and blinding yourself to some of the rather more unpleasant details. Maybe becoming a vegan will be the ultimate result?

I have a feeling that you have an acute sense of injustice in your nature, and a heightened conscience.

Have you ever considered supporting your national society which oversees the treatment of livestock?

[Jerry Oz]

I have not given it consideration. I do have a strong sense of what I feel to be justice, but I'm also acutely aware of causes and the odds of success. Seeing the difference between how the US treats livestock vs. how it is maintained in the EU and Australia, I have no doubt that logic and common sense fall silent when confronted with the influence of money and people who want cheap meat. By the way, until a couple of months ago, I was one of them, so may God continue to bless them all. I could easily take up that cause but it would likely wind up being something to occupy my time without making me feel as if I contributed to anything better than what we have today. I'm not proud to feel that way, by the way.

[westgrandboulevard]

You feel there is a signifcant difference in the treatment of American livestock, compared to EU and Australia? I would have imagined the lobbying to be quite strong.

See how it goes........

And I'm still awaiting moe's update on the hormonal reason why men lose weight faster than women.......

[moe]

OK..........men's hormonal levels [[especially testosterone) and muscle mass tends to burn calories better then women.
I am jealous, westgrand!! I work my behind off staying in shape!!

[westgrandboulevard]

moe, I hold my front in, trying to do the same thing....

[moe]

Are you trying to make me laugh? You succeeded!!

[westgrandboulevard]

I've got a good figure....until I stand up........

[Jerry Oz]

And I have the body of a man who is half my age. When I buy a shovel, I'm going to bury it in my neighbor's garden.

[westgrandboulevard]

Ha! I remember how immature I once was but, looking in the mirror, I can see I'm now twice the man I used to be.....

[Jerry Oz]

Now, now... You're bigger than that, so stop kicking yourself. [[I know I am.)

[westgrandboulevard]

We could say we currently have an increased presence......

[moe]

I'd prefer to substitute a DYNAMIC presence, gentlemen!!

[westgrandboulevard]

Haha, wouldn't we all, moe! In the meantime, know of any good 'stand-ins'??!

[moe]

What's wrong with the real deal westgrand?

[westgrandboulevard]

Well nothing much, I suppose. We can type just as well as anyone.

It's just that, when we're unavailable, 'The Al Dentes' are called upon for support, and to make our offerings look good....

[Jerry Oz]

Do not debate the Al Dentes. They are pretty firm, even after you turn up the heat.

[westgrandboulevard]

True! They added a distinct bite to everything offered on 'The Platters'.....

[moe]

Are you sure that the "Platters" don't need some "Tyme.?"
Jerome, give me my mirror.............

[Jerry Oz]

Don't talk to the man in the mirror unless you want make the world a better place. Just sayin'....

[westgrandboulevard]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

[Jerry Oz]

But that is Oz, the Great and Powerful! Or Jerry Oz for short! Pay attention! He's [[almost always) right!

[144man]

That's the Magic of Oz.

[moe]

What a world, what a world............

[144man]

Just a thought while we're talking about diets - if we can't even be sure that beef dishes don't contain horse meat, how can athletes be 100% certain that they're not inadvertently consuming banned substances which have entered the food chain?

[westgrandboulevard]

They can't. You would think the cow that jumped over the moon would give them a clue....

[Jerry Oz]

She did not jump over the moon because of steroids. She jumped over the moon because the farmer had cold hands when he milked her.

[moe]

I didn't know that.............WOW!!!
Betcha R&B didn't either!!

[westgrandboulevard]

I believe arrr&bee doesn't always know what he does know.......

[Jerry Oz]

I think he knows what he knows. I think he forgets what he forgot.

[moe]

I think he knows what he knows. I think he forgets what he forgot.

Very true, Jerry!!!