Didn't We

[Circa 1824]

Who gave the perfectly timed "whoo" at 1:48 in the Vegas final performance of Didn't We?

[sup_fan]

sounds to me like just an audience member calling out. M and C are not on the stage at this moment [[along with My Man). then come back out for it's the right time

[Circa 1824]

sounds to me like just an audience member calling out. M and C are not on the stage at this moment [[along with My Man). then come back out for it's the right time

Intersting…I thought all three ladies were on stage. Thus, I thought it might be Mary who gave the wonderful whoo sound.

[jobeterob]

That was the best cut on Farewell

[RanRan79]

That was the best cut on Farewell

I agree. I wonder if there are alternate performances of it in the vault. I'd love to hear it. Diana sounds great. Wish she had recorded it with this arrangement.

I think "The Impossible Dream" from the album is an underrated rendition.

[mindful1]

I agree. I wonder if there are alternate performances of it in the vault. I'd love to hear it. Diana sounds great. Wish she had recorded it with this arrangement.

I think "The Impossible Dream" from the album is an underrated rendition.

Damn it is great, always also wished there was a studio recording or other live renditions out there. Isn't it funny how there are sometimes multiple versions of songs we might not care about but then a gem like this- only one- the final concert live recording...period that's it.

[RanRan79]

Damn it is great, always also wished there was a studio recording or other live renditions out there. Isn't it funny how there are sometimes multiple versions of songs we might not care about but then a gem like this- only one- the final concert live recording...period that's it.

Actually I'm convinced that Motown somehow knew that one day I would be born and that I would become a fan of not just the Supremes but the label in general, and with that in mind it set out to achieve it's goal of disappointing the fan in me every time I turned around. So no multiple "Didn't We"'s [[as far as we know), very few live "Someday We'll Be Together"'s, very few live album cuts, no live "Buttered Popcorn". Shoot, they didn't even give me a Martha and the Vandellas or Marvin Gaye Christmas albums.

The crazy thing is that I'm pretty sure my complaints outnumber my approvals, but because those approvals are so great, they actually carry more weight than my complaints. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'm still a fan, frayed nerves and all.

[mindful1]

Actually I'm convinced that Motown somehow knew that one day I would be born and that I would become a fan of not just the Supremes but the label in general, and with that in mind it set out to achieve it's goal of disappointing the fan in me every time I turned around. So no multiple "Didn't We"'s [[as far as we know), very few live "Someday We'll Be Together"'s, very few live album cuts, no live "Buttered Popcorn". Shoot, they didn't even give me a Martha and the Vandellas or Marvin Gaye Christmas albums.

The crazy thing is that I'm pretty sure my complaints outnumber my approvals, but because those approvals are so great, they actually carry more weight than my complaints. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'm still a fan, frayed nerves and all.

Hilarious and relatable - needed that today, thanks!

[Spreadinglove21]

I'm surprised Diana didn't record Didn't We in the studio for one of her early solo albums. Unless it was because this Jimmy Webb song was frequently recorded during this era?

[sup_fan]

i always enjoy reading the reviews of each song and album on the Diana Ross Project website. of course this includes all of the live albums and concepts lps, etc. In the review of Evening With..., he gets to the song Lady Is A Tramp and notes that this one song appears more often throughout the Diana Ross catalog that most of her hits.

Sing R&H
Talk of the Town
Farewell
Live at Caesar's Palace
Evening With

[JohnnyB]

i always enjoy reading the reviews of each song and album on the Diana Ross Project website. of course this includes all of the live albums and concepts lps, etc. In the review of Evening With..., he gets to the song Lady Is A Tramp and notes that this one song appears more often throughout the Diana Ross catalog that most of her hits.

Sing R&H
Talk of the Town
Farewell
Live at Caesar's Palace
Evening With

Interesting. I remember reading DR hadn’t included Tramp in the Evening With set list and BG complained; he must have REALLY loved this one.

[Ollie9]

Diana sounds good on “Didn’t We”, but i think Mary would have been incredible as the song would really suit her voice.

[Spreadinglove21]

Diana sounds good on “Didn’t We”, but i think Mary would have been incredible as the song would really suit her voice.

Mary leading Didn't We would have made a good addition to the Webb album. Could have replaced Beyond Myself.

[Ollie9]

Mary leading Didn't We would have made a good addition to the Webb album. Could have replaced Beyond Myself.

Agree that “Didn’t We” would have fitted the album perfectly. I think Mary should also have taken the lead on “Beyond Myself” as Jean kind of loses vocal control on that one. I would also have released “I Keep It Hid” as the lead single, which other then “Plane” was as good as any.

[reese]

Interesting. I remember reading DR hadn’t included Tramp in the Evening With set list and BG complained; he must have REALLY loved this one.

When I saw her in 1979, I was waiting for TRAMP as it seemed to be in all of her shows since she recorded it. I was surprised that she didn't do it.

But yes, in an interview with REACH OUT, Gil Askey said that Berry made them put it back into AN EVENING WITH... after he saw the show.

[johnjeb]

Interesting. I remember reading DR hadn’t included Tramp in the Evening With set list and BG complained; he must have REALLY loved this one.

That was the big problem. BG was stuck in old cabaret-style shows. I've always found it ironic that while BG bragged about his company's releases and hits he seemed to relegate those hits and songs as secondary in a show or concert overloaded with show-tunes and other people's hits.

[sup_fan]

That was the big problem. BG was stuck in old cabaret-style shows. I've always found it ironic that while BG bragged about his company's releases and hits he seemed to relegate those hits and songs as secondary in a show or concert overloaded with show-tunes and other people's hits.

i think the thing is Berry saw the whole thing very segmented. kids bought the records, especially the 45s. but kids didn't have money for places like The Copa or Vegas. that was the domain of middle/upper middle class white people.

the problems IMO began to emerge with the rise of disposable income for teens and young adults and the decline of popularity for "white supper clubs". there had been a long history of top acts playing college campuses - the Supremes performed at my alma mater in 67 in Decatur, IL. My aunt still talks about Louis Armstrong playing at her Junior College in Joliet, IL in the late 50s and how no one danced lol. they all just stood and watched and listened in awe.

as i was building out the crazy excel spreadsheet with all of the chart rankings, i noticed Billboard issued starting in 64 a Music On Campus special issue. this continued for years and would focus on acts and their tour schedules of campuses, but it also started focusing on concerts and bigger events. the youth culture driven music was becoming larger and larger as these kids were experiencing larger allowances, teen jobs, etc. kids in the 50s and early 60s simply didn't have the access to $ to buy as much as later kids did. they didn't have the funds for lps which is why, in part, the industry didn't really focus on major lps. sure they would occasionally buy or they'd get for bday or xmas gifts. but the rise of their spending power was coupled with the rise of groups and artists better utilizing the lp for artistic purposes.

as the years went by, the Sups were generally not a major presence in those Music On Campus issues. this came to haunt many of the motown acts in the 70s by not having a solid or strong youth presence.

[Boogiedown]

….. hmmm …I guess Berry would know what songs suited her

oh my !!

[RanRan79]

Hilarious and relatable - needed that today, thanks!

You're welcome!!

[RanRan79]

I'm surprised Diana didn't record Didn't We in the studio for one of her early solo albums. Unless it was because this Jimmy Webb song was frequently recorded during this era?

That never stopped Motown before, so I doubt that's the reason. I think it's as I alleged: Motown knew I would want a studio recording and they sent Ross in to record "Time and Love" instead.

[RanRan79]

Diana sounds good on “Didn’t We”, but i think Mary would have been incredible as the song would really suit her voice.

Perhaps an arrangement closer to the original, but I don't think Mary would have done as good a job with the arrangement Diana had. In a few years, sure. But IMO Mary was not in fine voice for either of her two leads during this show and I fear she would have butchered "Didn't We" if allowed to do it then.

[RanRan79]

... after he saw the show.

I assume that the show length wasn't very flexible, so I have to wonder what song, if any, got bumped in favor of "Tramp"?

[RanRan79]

That was the big problem. BG was stuck in old cabaret-style shows. I've always found it ironic that while BG bragged about his company's releases and hits he seemed to relegate those hits and songs as secondary in a show or concert overloaded with show-tunes and other people's hits.

Absolutely. And apparently he wouldn't let Diana abandon it even as the 70s was staring down the 80s. "Tramp" should have long ago been retired. For all of Gordy's genius ideas, he really stunk in other areas, to the detriment of his artists' artistry and appeal.

[sup_fan]

I assume that the show length wasn't very flexible, so I have to wonder what song, if any, got bumped in favor of "Tramp"?

there have been things written about how Diana and director Joe Layton came up with the format for the show. they'd put a lot into it and i bet neither were thrilled with Gordy's dictate to add Tramp into the set list.

the show is in 2 acts, with each act sort of having 2 parts within it

Act 1, part 1 - the recent hits. after a rousing intro, Diana pretty much just delivers an array of hits and recent songs like TMITM, One Love [[cut from the lp), Smile and LH.

Act 1, part 2 - girls. this is a great and creative way to incorporate diana's motherhood of "girls" and then segue into other "girls" like Billie, Ethel and others

Act 2, part 1 - motown and the Supremes

Act 2, part 2 - motown and going solo

it's easy to see that Lady is a Tramp isn't really something that fits in with the theme of Act 1 Part 1 but.. what the hell. just add it and get Berry off my back

[khansperac]

Are we sure Berry insisted on putting that song in the show? Maybe it’s a favorite of Diana’s. Isn’t that the song she chose to sing on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson when she was promoting the TV special?

[reese]

Are we sure Berry insisted on putting that song in the show? Maybe it’s a favorite of Diana’s. Isn’t that the song she chose to sing on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson when she was promoting the TV special?

In a REACH OUT fan club newsletter, her musical director Gil Askey said that she was sick of doing TRAMP and it was put back into the show on Berry's orders.

But yes, she did do it on her 1977 Tonight Show appearance. Can't detect the reasoning behind that, especially since it wasn't performed on the special. Since she didn't have a new release to promote, maybe she just went with the tried and true. Maybe Berry suggested it.

[reese]

I assume that the show length wasn't very flexible, so I have to wonder what song, if any, got bumped in favor of "Tramp"?

They probably had some holes in the act. Plus the song isn't all that long. But I would like to know as well what might have followed I WOULDN'T CHANGE A THING. In a Rock and Soul Songs review of the show, they mentioned Diana singing a song called TAKE ME TO THE MOON. Maybe it was that song that was dropped.

When I saw the show, she did GOD BLESS THE CHILD, which wasn't on the album or in the Broadway Playbill.

[George Solomon]

An Evening With Diana Ross at the Palace is the first time I saw her as a soloist in concert. When she dropped the white/screen dress and launched into The Lady Is A Tramp, I was thrilled. I had heard it on the albums for years so to me it was like hearing one of her hits for the first time, live. Also, she belted it out with more gusto than I had ever heard on record so it far exceeded my expectations.

[Ollie9]

An Evening With Diana Ross at the Palace is the first time I saw her as a soloist in concert. When she dropped the white/screen dress and launched into The Lady Is A Tramp, I was thrilled. I had heard it on the albums for years so to me it was like hearing one of her hits for the first time, live. Also, she belted it out with more gusto than I had ever heard on record so it far exceeded my expectations.

It’s a song I use to perform with my sisters hairbrush as a kid. She was still performing it in 1978.

[sup_fan]

regardless of whether or not she loved the song, or if Gordy made her add it in or how many albums it appeared on, she ALWAYS hit a homerun with this song. in 67 DMF did this on Tonight Show along with The Happening. and even then the whole routine was perfect. with You're Nobody, the girls evolved the act through the years. the initial comedy bits were worked out over time. but with Lady, the funny lines Flo did [[and later Mary) and all were spot on. the group interaction was on point and just a great show stopper.

on the DR Project website, the author also comments on the frequency of the tune. he also said [[and this is just speculation but it seems to be plausible) that this is an easy tune to sing. a perfect warm up song. nothing too strenuous vocally but certainly not boring. she was an expert at performing it too and so it would fit wonderfully in an early section of the act to help warm herself, her voice and her audience up

[jobucats]

Getting back to "Didn't We"...I fell in love with Diana's interpretation the first time I heard it on the "Farewell" album. This is an example where she is right on the microphone delivering the perfect performance without bells & whistles and special effects like reverb which can artificially smooth over a vocal. I am surprised it that it was not also done in the studio, and that other live performances of this aren't around...or are they?

[Circa 1824]

Getting back to "Didn't We"...I fell in love with Diana's interpretation the first time I heard it on the "Farewell" album. This is an example where she is right on the microphone delivering the perfect performance without bells & whistles and special effects like reverb which can artificially smooth over a vocal. I am surprised it that it was not also done in the studio, and that other live performances of this aren't around...or are they?

Stunning ….

Does anyone know if she was standing or sitting while singing this song? It must have been visually powerful because the audience starts applauding way before the song is over.

[Roberta75]

Getting back to "Didn't We"...I fell in love with Diana's interpretation the first time I heard it on the "Farewell" album. This is an example where she is right on the microphone delivering the perfect performance without bells & whistles and special effects like reverb which can artificially smooth over a vocal. I am surprised it that it was not also done in the studio, and that other live performances of this aren't around...or are they?

Bravo Bravo Bravo Miss Ross.

[George Solomon]

"Didn't We" was performed at every taped performance from the Frontier. Most of the songs were. The only numbers that were either in or out were "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You," "It's Alright With Me," "Love Child," "The Impossible Dream," and "Someday We'll Be Together."

[RanRan79]

"Didn't We" was performed at every taped performance from the Frontier. Most of the songs were. The only numbers that were either in or out were "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You," "It's Alright With Me," "Love Child," "The Impossible Dream," and "Someday We'll Be Together."

So I can look forward to an alternate "Didn't We" on the Farewell expanded, huh? I won't bother you by asking when might we expect it.

"Someday We'll Be Together"...that's insane to me. How do you not have the final DRATS single, a current huge hit, in the act every night for these final shows? Ugh, Motown did some of the stupidest stuff, I swear.

[George Solomon]

I mentioned in another post, I thought it was very odd. They either closed with "Someday" or "Impossible Dream". The only night they did both was the final performance. In one of the performances they didn't do "Love Child" OR "Someday!"
And yes, we'd love to do the expanded Farewell. We all should live so long!

[reese]

So I can look forward to an alternate "Didn't We" on the Farewell expanded, huh? I won't bother you by asking when might we expect it.

"Someday We'll Be Together"...that's insane to me. How do you not have the final DRATS single, a current huge hit, in the act every night for these final shows? Ugh, Motown did some of the stupidest stuff, I swear.

Very strange to say the least.

But can we really blame Motown? Maybe Gil thought momentum was dropping some nights and changed things on the fly. Or perhaps there were some nights when one of the ladies decided they didn't want to do it. I can't imagine why unless it was just too sad. But who really knows?

[RanRan79]

I mentioned in another post, I thought it was very odd. They either closed with "Someday" or "Impossible Dream". The only night they did both was the final performance. In one of the performances they didn't do "Love Child" OR "Someday!"
And yes, we'd love to do the expanded Farewell. We all should live so long!

Well when Farewell comes up for expansion- probably around 2070 for the 100th anniversary- I'll still be here. Barely, but still here, ordering my copy.

I look forward to hearing if the other versions of "Someday" are arranged a bit differently. I always thought the Farewell version was missing some instruments. Lol

[RanRan79]

Very strange to say the least.

But can we really blame Motown? Maybe Gil thought momentum was dropping some nights and changed things on the fly. Or perhaps there were some nights when one of the ladies decided they didn't want to do it. I can't imagine why unless it was just too sad. But who really knows?

Sometimes when I say Motown, I mean any and everyone in charge. Other times I say Motown and I mean Gordy. In this case, I meant Gordy. I'm thinking he was behind every single minute of the final shows. I can't imagine that Gil or the ladies had final say over any changes and even if they suggested "lets not do 'Someday' tonight", Gordy would have to say "okay" or hit the roof at such an absurd suggestion.

But then the ladies also didn't perform the song that put them on the map in the first place, "Where Did Our Love Go", so why should we be surprised by anything that went on for this final DRATS performance? Lol

At this point, if I found out they sang "Buttered Popcorn", I'd have to shrug unsurprised because it tracks.

[reese]

Sometimes when I say Motown, I mean any and everyone in charge. Other times I say Motown and I mean Gordy. In this case, I meant Gordy. I'm thinking he was behind every single minute of the final shows. I can't imagine that Gil or the ladies had final say over any changes and even if they suggested "lets not do 'Someday' tonight", Gordy would have to say "okay" or hit the roof at such an absurd suggestion.

But then the ladies also didn't perform the song that put them on the map in the first place, "Where Did Our Love Go", so why should we be surprised by anything that went on for this final DRATS performance? Lol

At this point, if I found out they sang "Buttered Popcorn", I'd have to shrug unsurprised because it tracks.

Actually, I assumed you meant Berry.

That said, I would love to know why he [or anyone, for that matter] wouldn't want to do SOMEDAY during their farewell engagement. I do recall Berry or Gil saying that they took SOMEWHERE out of the act some nights because it took too much out of Diana.

But as I've said before, on one level, I don't think Motown [or Berry] thought of this engagement as anything more than the ordinary. If they had, I would think more hits would have been added, like WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO.

[khansperac]

I think in hindsight we see the historical significance of “Where did our love go”. But the reality is that in 1969 after 12 number one hits, it was just one of the old songs for them with no importance. To add to that, the girls never liked the song. As far as “Someday”. That’s a head scratcher. It was just the number one song in the country when they started this engagement. My guess is that by this time, Diana was over it all, she wasn’t feeling them and they weren’t feeling her either. Some nights I’m sure Diana simply didn’t want to sing it. It’s was all too phony for her, and after years of having to be phony about it, she didn’t have to pretend to care. It was the last night when what was happening hit her. “Ok let’s do the song you all want to hear” and then when the first note played she almost cried “Oh” [[if my memory serves me correctly). To this day 50 years later she still doesn’t sing it. Had that song not been the hit it was and also coinciding with their last show together, it would have been totally reasonable to end with “The impossible dream”. But it was a hit. So it should have ended every concert during that engagement.

[sup_fan]

I think in hindsight we see the historical significance of “Where did our love go”. But the reality is that in 1969 after 12 number one hits, it was just one of the old songs for them with no importance. To add to that, the girls never liked the song. As far as “Someday”. That’s a head scratcher. It was just the number one song in the country when they started this engagement. My guess is that by this time, Diana was over it all, she wasn’t feeling them and they weren’t feeling her either. Some nights I’m sure Diana simply didn’t want to sing it. It’s was all too phony for her, and after years of having to be phony about it, she didn’t have to pretend to care. It was the last night when what was happening hit her. “Ok let’s do the song you all want to hear” and then when the first note played she almost cried “Oh” [[if my memory serves me correctly). To this day 50 years later she still doesn’t sing it. Had that song not been the hit it was and also coinciding with their last show together, it would have been totally reasonable to end with “The impossible dream”. But it was a hit. So it should have ended every concert during that engagement.

i was thinking the same thing. and this very, very well could be reading far too much into things. But Diana seems to have hardly EVER sung Someday. When she went solo, in the early live shows, did she do it? we know she did that tried and true Sup medley - the one they'd be using through the DRATS era. eventually she would do a variety of hits medleys but i'm not aware of ANY including Someday. the closest we got was an instrumental during Evening With. Did they do it in RTL?

my theory [[and based on nothing but my own thoughts) is that the ending of the Sups was a wildly painful period for really just about everyone. it's one of the few things Diana sort of opens up about in Secrets. there was so much angst and problems within the group, so much stress about going solo, the whole mess between her and Berry, his unwillingness or interest in marriage and a family, his infidelity. Maybe all of this comes together in her mind, musically at least, through Someday.

like if you eat a favorite meal but then later get quick sick to your stomach, you often associated that meal with that sickness. maybe Someday is just so associated in her mind with this pain. and maybe this was the case pretty much since she recorded it

[sup_fan]

I mentioned in another post, I thought it was very odd. They either closed with "Someday" or "Impossible Dream". The only night they did both was the final performance. In one of the performances they didn't do "Love Child" OR "Someday!"
And yes, we'd love to do the expanded Farewell. We all should live so long!

i'll keep speculating here

Otis writes in his book that when they debuted in Vegas, the crowd did NOT appreciate the act and did not like the heavier material like Cloud 9. this would have been just a little prior to the Sups farewell. so maybe Gordy was hesitant to have the girls do something like LC. in the released Farewell, Diana introduces LC with that line about this being the song their managers told them not to record

[reese]

i was thinking the same thing. and this very, very well could be reading far too much into things. But Diana seems to have hardly EVER sung Someday. When she went solo, in the early live shows, did she do it? we know she did that tried and true Sup medley - the one they'd be using through the DRATS era. eventually she would do a variety of hits medleys but i'm not aware of ANY including Someday. the closest we got was an instrumental during Evening With. Did they do it in RTL?

my theory [[and based on nothing but my own thoughts) is that the ending of the Sups was a wildly painful period for really just about everyone. it's one of the few things Diana sort of opens up about in Secrets. there was so much angst and problems within the group, so much stress about going solo, the whole mess between her and Berry, his unwillingness or interest in marriage and a family, his infidelity. Maybe all of this comes together in her mind, musically at least, through Someday.

like if you eat a favorite meal but then later get quick sick to your stomach, you often associated that meal with that sickness. maybe Someday is just so associated in her mind with this pain. and maybe this was the case pretty much since she recorded it

Aside from the brief duet with Mary at her US solo debut and MOTOWN 25, I don't think Diana has performed SOMEDAY live since she left the group.

That said, she did choose it as one of the tracks to be remixed for her 1994 DIANA EXTENDED album.

[Spreadinglove21]

I recall reading that when she auditioned The Jones Girls to be her back up singers she asked them to do Someday We'll Be Together and she joined in with them to see how they would all sound together. But I may be wrong about the song but I'm sure someone here knows for sure.

[reese]

i'll keep speculating here

Otis writes in his book that when they debuted in Vegas, the crowd did NOT appreciate the act and did not like the heavier material like Cloud 9. this would have been just a little prior to the Sups farewell. so maybe Gordy was hesitant to have the girls do something like LC. in the released Farewell, Diana introduces LC with that line about this being the song their managers told them not to record

According to Otis' book, the Tempts' engagement was in October of 1968. So CLOUD NINE was still relatively recent.

By 1970, one would think Vegas could deal with the Supremes singing LOVE CHILD. I figured that Diana's line about their managers telling them the song would never make it to be a bit of patter, especially since Berry was in control of their management. That said, maybe he didn't mind experimenting on disc but stopped short of taking risks in certain venues. I must say, I never found their live rendition of LOVE CHILD all that great.

[Circa 1824]

I must say, I never found their live rendition of LOVE CHILD all that great.

I agree. The live versions always seemed rushed and perfunctory.

When they debuted Love Child on Ed Sullivan, Ross was fierce and fabulous in the yellow sweatshirt. At 0:48, "started my life..." it was an intensity I have rarely see her have on stage. The song was a smash after that performance. I wish she would have somehow found that passion and intensity again, but I don't remember seeing much of it. That is why the debut of Love Child stands-out.

[Circa 1824]

Does anyone know where the outside picture used on the Love Child album was taken? I wish someone would ask her.

[sup_fan]

I agree. The live versions always seemed rushed and perfunctory.

When they debuted Love Child on Ed Sullivan, Ross was fierce and fabulous in the yellow sweatshirt. At 0:48, "started my life..." it was an intensity I have rarely see her have on stage. The song was a smash after that performance. I wish she would have somehow found that passion and intensity again, but I don't remember seeing much of it. That is why the debut of Love Child stands-out.

it really was an excellent debut. and the mix is slightly different. not sure if i can describe it correctly but all of the backing track and backing vocals are more forward in the mix. like at the exact moment you mention at 0:48 you hear the piano in the track hit a major chord. all of the backing track just isn't quite a blended which is nice! makes it sound more alive.

i also agree that the decision to only have Diana in the LC sweatshirt was the right one. the b&w pic of the 3 girls in them just looked too matchy-matchy. they might as well have been in sequin gowns. but with just 1 in the sweatshirt and the others in street clothes the effect was amazing.

there are a few fan pics of the girls on stage doing this. i think immediately after the release, they would start the concert with LC and maybe a hits medley and be in these outfits. then they'd change and come back on in the sequins