Contrasting Diana Ross' and Donna Summer's Careers:

[Boogiedown]

They certainly overlapped but only marginally crossed paths.

They both seemed to be overnight successes, and both were in the care of good hands that propelled their careers. I would say one had to work a lot harder at her positioning in the music scene than the other, and one's candle flickered more briefly although perhaps more sensationally.
Both were in high demand yet both were struggling by the time the 80's took hold and shifted music tastes .
Can't recall what Geffin paid to "get" Donna, not anywhere near what RCA paid out for Diana I wonder the difference?
Both seemed to care more about their personal lives at that time as well.

Other thoughts??

[reese]

I thought Donna's Geffen contract was worth $25 million but I could be wrong.

[Boogiedown]

Whoa, nice #.
and Diana’s ?

[reese]

Diana's RCA contract was $20 million, I believe.

[Boogiedown]

I did not know Donna’s outsized Diana’s . Don’t recall the hoopla around it ? I thought Diana’s was the biggest deal of the century ….

[reese]

I did not know Donna’s outsized Diana’s . Don’t recall the hoopla around it ? I thought Diana’s was the biggest deal of the century ….

As I wrote, I don't know for sure that Donna's Geffen contract was $25 million. I just vaguely recall hearing / reading that at the time. I've since tried to find it but haven't been able to.

In any event, I'm sure it was a big chunk of money. David had to be concerned when the first album THE WANDERER only went gold. He didn't even release the follow-up at the time and instead, enlisted Quincy Jones to produce her self-titled album.

[Boogiedown]

Ok won’t hold you to it reese !!


Apparently Geffen had some kind of sweetheart deal with Warner that they then paid for his artists signings .

[reese]

Ok won’t hold you to it reese !!


Apparently Geffen had some kind of sweetheart deal with Warner that they then paid for his artists signings .

He signed John Lennon around the same time. I wonder how much he was signed for?

[Boogiedown]

He signed John Lennon around the same time. I wonder how much he was signed for?

Reese I was just about to ask you the same LOL!

Warner must have had deep pockets for him to pull that off and Donna at the same time.

[jobeterob]

I see advances of $1.5 m per album for Donna Summer

[Albator]

For me, their resemblance is only accidental. At the beginning of her career, Donna took a lot of Diana's visual codes and her glamorous image. But they are very different women.


Donna found herself trapped in a character that wasn't her and it must have become unbearable to manage in the long run. By the way, when I stopped being a fan in 1980, I was not aware of any rumors of homophobia or even that she had left Casablanca for Geffen.
I just no longer recognized the Donna I had loved. As Moroder stated, she remained a great singer but her charisma was gone. Her carrer while at Geffen is a lot like Diana's at RCA. Some great tracks and lot of fillers. like Diana, as a singer, she was better and better. Her voice was vibrant and strong.


On the other hand, Diana never had any problem with her stage persona. She navigates without problem between the temperamental glamorous Diva and a secret woman who doesn't need to live in the public eye. She is very authentic

[Boogiedown]

For me, their resemblance is only accidental. At the beginning of her career, Donna took a lot of Diana's visual codes and her glamorous image. But they are very different women.


Donna found herself trapped in a character that wasn't her and it must have become unbearable to manage in the long run. By the way, when she stopped being a fan in 1980, I was not aware of any rumors of homophobia or even that she had left Casablanca for Geffen.
I just no longer recognized the Donna I had loved. As Moroder stated, she remained a great singer but her charisma was gone. Her carrer while at Geffen is a lot like Diana's at RCA. Some great tracks and lot of fillers. like Diana, as a singer, she was better and better. Her voice was vibrant and strong.


On the other hand, Diana never had any problem with her stage persona. She navigates without problem between the temperamental glamorous Diva and a secret woman who doesn't need to live in the public eye. She is very authentic

Well Diana had the advantage. She was spoon fed on how to behave on stage and in life since being a teenager.
What's amazing, when comparing the two, is it almost seems generational. Diana is from a music era of long ago, while acts like Gloria Gaynor and Donna Summer were fresh. Yet in reality, Donna and Diana are just four years apart, they could have attended high school for a year together.
Albator, what made Donna loose her sheen for you??
One thought I had is perhaps the glossiness of the BAD GIRLS lp, the staged cover and the whole sexual innuendos in her songs now becoming "hard" rather than sensual ....

[sup_fan]

i think the comments about how Donna's pop persona was really artificial are very interesting. perhaps we should be comparing Donna and Jean Terrell. both were assigned a sound and public persona that neither really could reconcile.

Diana created her image from the earliest of days and it was an image that was 110% aligned with her as a person. i bet as a 14 year old teenybopper in her homemade outfit and fake Woolworth's pearls, she felt like the epitome of glamour. she projected this persona well before Berry and Motown's Artist Development got hold of her. that's why the Supremes' style really was Diana's. and visa versa. And i'd say the same for Mary. while maybe she didn't have the sewing and construction skills that Diana learned at Cass, mary naturally aligned herself with this same look, persona, style, etc. for both of them it really was a core element of themselves

[sup_fan]

Well Diana had the advantage. She was spoon fed on how to behave on stage and in life since being a teenager.
What's amazing, when comparing the two, is it almost seems generational. Diana is from a music era of long ago, while acts like Gloria Gaynor and Donna Summer were fresh. Yet in reality, Donna and Diana are just four years apart, they could have attended high school for a year together.
Albator, what made Donna loose her sheen for you??
One thought I had is perhaps the glossiness of the BAD GIRLS lp, the staged cover and the whole sexual innuendos in her songs now becoming "hard" rather than sensual ....

interesting point about Bad Girls. while a huge success was it becoming, at that point, too tawdry? and how might she have been presented in the 80s? if she's stuck with the sex image, would she have been like the Mary Jane Girls or Vanity? or Apollonia?

[Jaap]

What's amazing, when comparing the two, is it almost seems generational. Diana is from a music era of long ago, while acts like Gloria Gaynor and Donna Summer were fresh.

That's also because Donna Summer did not get her break in the US until 1975, while she had performing in Europe for seven years already. She starred in the German version of Hair in 1968, only four years after Where Did Our Love Go was a hit.

[Albator]

Well Diana had the advantage. She was spoon fed on how to behave on stage and in life since being a teenager.
What's amazing, when comparing the two, is it almost seems generational. Diana is from a music era of long ago, while acts like Gloria Gaynor and Donna Summer were fresh. Yet in reality, Donna and Diana are just four years apart, they could have attended high school for a year together.
Albator, what made Donna loose her sheen for you??
One thought I had is perhaps the glossiness of the BAD GIRLS lp, the staged cover and the whole sexual innuendos in her songs now becoming "hard" rather than sensual ....

Donna was the first American singer I loved and bought records. I wasn't even 10 when "Love to love you baby" was huge.
In those days all we had were record pictures and a few tv in France back in 75/76. She was even more popular in Italy were I spent my holidays.


So, I listened "On the radio", and "live&More", "Bad Girls" like mad until came "The wanderer". I didn't recognise her, I hated this music, and still do.
That same year, I discovered both Barbra and Diana and I was blown away. They conveyed the romanticism and glamour I'm looking for in music.


But I did give a chance to Donna and bought "Donna Summer and "cats without claws"... I loved "there goes my baby" but I took me years to listen "donna summer". I love it now.
I took me 40 years to love "eaten alive" so, it's not that rare for me.


But I wasn't aware of anything controversial about Donna or even that she changed record company.

[Boogiedown]

Donna was the first American singer I loved and bought records. I wasn't even 10 when "Love to love you baby" was huge.
In those days all we had were record pictures and a few tv in France back in 75/76. She was even more popular in Italy were I spent my holidays.


So, I listened "On the radio", and "live&More", "Bad Girls" like mad until came "The wanderer". I didn't recognise her, I hated this music, and still do.
That same year, I discovered both Barbra and Diana and I was blown away. They conveyed the romanticism and glamour I'm looking for in music.


But I did give a chance to Donna and bought "Donna Summer and "cats without claws"... I loved "there goes my baby" but I took me years to listen "donna summer". I love it now.
I took me 40 years to love "eaten alive" so, it's not that rare for me.

Good stuff
But I wasn't aware of anything controversial about Donna or even that she changed record company.

You didn't listen to LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY when you were under age ten! did you??
That doesn't seem right!!!
Like you, for me each new album from her delivered until The Wanderer. She went from a 10 to a 2. Extremely alarming. I think you said it right by mentioning her charisma was gone.
The Quincy Jones mess was no better, noisy, desperate for a sound, but there wasn't one.
The romanticism and glamour in music ....very nicely put ....
Donna stayed out of controversy until the early mid-eighties.

[Albator]

The album "Donna Summer" isn't really an instant favorite. Pure Donna fans have difficulties embracing it.
Maybe I wasn't a pure fan since I'v grown to love it.
I have reservations about Quincy Jones productions. I find them to be very busy.
Patti Austin "every home should have one" is rather good, but I'm not sure he would have make a great pop album with Diana in the eighties.
IMO Giorgio Moroder was a better choice for the music direction she wanted to take.
But I think Lionnel Ritchie was at that time the best for her. He has a simple, commercial sound but with a great sense of melody. Diana could have expressed a lot as demonstrated with "Missing You"

[soren1974]

Diana Ross was of course already a veteran when Donna Summer burst onto the scene, and although Donna was of course hot in the clubs, she didn't have a big single hit between Love To Love You, Baby and I Feel Love - roughly 18 months. In Larry Harris' book about Casablanca Records, he said they were worried that her albums A Love Trilogy and Four Seasons Of Love had not produced any hit singles [[although both albums went gold). Naturally after I Feel Love, Donna went from strength to strength with her four consecutive double-albums: the gorgeous Once Upon A Time-album, Live And More with the fantastic MacArthur Park, Bad Girls and the brilliant On The Radio-compilation and kept reinventing herself. Diana Ross, during this period, was not doing particularly well commercially with the elegant Baby It's Me album, while still selling well, not generating any hits, then the strange hotchpotch that was Ross '78, then The Wiz-flop, and then finally at least having a decent-sized [[but not enormeous) hit with The Boss, three years after she last had a hit single. Donna entered the 1980s with the turmoil of the court case against her mentor Neil Bogart, leaving the label that had made her famous, just like Diana would do, but the different was that Diana had three massive hits in 1980 whereas Donna's first release on Geffen Records did not do all that well. Donna's Geffen-years and Diana's RCA-years are surprisingly similar. Several good tunes, but lots of songs that were underwhelming, although Donna's stuff were generally better than Diana's, in my opinion. Donna's [[overblown) Quincy Jones album failed to make the sparks fly the same way that Diana's Eaten Alive album with the Bee Gees did. Donna had no real duds like Diana's naff Children Of The World or Nobody Makes Me Crazy. Diana's 1983 album and Donna's Cats Without Claws album hold up the best for me, and they had in common that they did not yield any substantial hits for either. Both had strong comeback singles - Donna's This Time I Know It's For Real [[1989) and Diana's When You Tell Me That You Love Me [[1991) when they both sang the style of material they did best, and both thought it was a good idea to try New Jack Swing [[Workin' Overtime and Mistaken Identity) and both attempts were panned by the public. Both recorded well-executed Christmas albums in the 90s. Donna Summer's final album Crayons was well-produced and modern sounding [[although I did not like it at all) while Diana's I Love You was a tired effort. Donna was often stiff and slightly phony on stage, while Diana was a more natural performer. However, Donna could sing rings around Diana, her voice just growing stronger and stronger as she got older, and she seemed to sing high notes completely effortlessly, whereas Diana started to be less disciplined with her vocals.

Both ladies have left a wonderful legacy of music for us all to enjoy for the rest of our lives.

[Ollie9]

Diana Ross was of course already a veteran when Donna Summer burst onto the scene, and although Donna was of course hot in the clubs, she didn't have a big single hit between Love To Love You, Baby and I Feel Love - roughly 18 months. In Larry Harris' book about Casablanca Records, he said they were worried that her albums A Love Trilogy and Four Seasons Of Love had not produced any hit singles [[although both albums went gold). Naturally after I Feel Love, Donna went from strength to strength with her four consecutive double-albums: the gorgeous Once Upon A Time-album, Live And More with the fantastic MacArthur Park, Bad Girls and the brilliant On The Radio-compilation and kept reinventing herself. Diana Ross, during this period, was not doing particularly well commercially with the elegant Baby It's Me album, while still selling well, not generating any hits, then the strange hotchpotch that was Ross '78, then The Wiz-flop, and then finally at least having a decent-sized [[but not enormeous) hit with The Boss, three years after she last had a hit single. Donna entered the 1980s with the turmoil of the court case against her mentor Neil Bogart, leaving the label that had made her famous, just like Diana would do, but the different was that Diana had three massive hits in 1980 whereas Donna's first release on Geffen Records did not do all that well. Donna's Geffen-years and Diana's RCA-years are surprisingly similar. Several good tunes, but lots of songs that were underwhelming, although Donna's stuff were generally better than Diana's, in my opinion. Donna's [[overblown) Quincy Jones album failed to make the sparks fly the same way that Diana's Eaten Alive album with the Bee Gees did. Donna had no real duds like Diana's naff Children Of The World or Nobody Makes Me Crazy. Diana's 1983 album and Donna's Cats Without Claws album hold up the best for me, and they had in common that they did not yield any substantial hits for either. Both had strong comeback singles - Donna's This Time I Know It's For Real [[1989) and Diana's When You Tell Me That You Love Me [[1991) when they both sang the style of material they did best, and both thought it was a good idea to try New Jack Swing [[Workin' Overtime and Mistaken Identity) and both attempts were panned by the public. Both recorded well-executed Christmas albums in the 90s. Donna Summer's final album Crayons was well-produced and modern sounding [[although I did not like it at all) while Diana's I Love You was a tired effort. Donna was often stiff and slightly phony on stage, while Diana was a more natural performer. However, Donna could sing rings around Diana, her voice just growing stronger and stronger as she got older, and she seemed to sing high notes completely effortlessly, whereas Diana started to be less disciplined with her vocals.

Both ladies have left a wonderful legacy of music for us all to enjoy for the rest of our lives.

Interesting and balanced post soren. You are obviously a fan of both ladies.

[Bluebrock]

Diana Ross was of course already a veteran when Donna Summer burst onto the scene, and although Donna was of course hot in the clubs, she didn't have a big single hit between Love To Love You, Baby and I Feel Love - roughly 18 months. In Larry Harris' book about Casablanca Records, he said they were worried that her albums A Love Trilogy and Four Seasons Of Love had not produced any hit singles [[although both albums went gold). Naturally after I Feel Love, Donna went from strength to strength with her four consecutive double-albums: the gorgeous Once Upon A Time-album, Live And More with the fantastic MacArthur Park, Bad Girls and the brilliant On The Radio-compilation and kept reinventing herself. Diana Ross, during this period, was not doing particularly well commercially with the elegant Baby It's Me album, while still selling well, not generating any hits, then the strange hotchpotch that was Ross '78, then The Wiz-flop, and then finally at least having a decent-sized [[but not enormeous) hit with The Boss, three years after she last had a hit single. Donna entered the 1980s with the turmoil of the court case against her mentor Neil Bogart, leaving the label that had made her famous, just like Diana would do, but the different was that Diana had three massive hits in 1980 whereas Donna's first release on Geffen Records did not do all that well. Donna's Geffen-years and Diana's RCA-years are surprisingly similar. Several good tunes, but lots of songs that were underwhelming, although Donna's stuff were generally better than Diana's, in my opinion. Donna's [[overblown) Quincy Jones album failed to make the sparks fly the same way that Diana's Eaten Alive album with the Bee Gees did. Donna had no real duds like Diana's naff Children Of The World or Nobody Makes Me Crazy. Diana's 1983 album and Donna's Cats Without Claws album hold up the best for me, and they had in common that they did not yield any substantial hits for either. Both had strong comeback singles - Donna's This Time I Know It's For Real [[1989) and Diana's When You Tell Me That You Love Me [[1991) when they both sang the style of material they did best, and both thought it was a good idea to try New Jack Swing [[Workin' Overtime and Mistaken Identity) and both attempts were panned by the public. Both recorded well-executed Christmas albums in the 90s. Donna Summer's final album Crayons was well-produced and modern sounding [[although I did not like it at all) while Diana's I Love You was a tired effort. Donna was often stiff and slightly phony on stage, while Diana was a more natural performer. However, Donna could sing rings around Diana, her voice just growing stronger and stronger as she got older, and she seemed to sing high notes completely effortlessly, whereas Diana started to be less disciplined with her vocals.

Both ladies have left a wonderful legacy of music for us all to enjoy for the rest of our lives.

Great post. I agree with much of what you say.
I thought Donna Summer was a fine singer and a nice person too. She was much nicer to me than some of the other guests at Diva's 2000. She even made me a cup of coffee in her dressing room. All the other guests had people running around after them and would not have lifted a finger to do it themselves. The friction between her and Diana was NOT down to Donna. She behaved with class and dignity throughout the taping unlike certain other performers i could mention.
I don't think Donna was ever comfortable being a disco diva. It would not have been her chosen path. She made a few bad decisions [[who hasn't?) and paid a heavy price for her mistakes. May she r.i.p.

[Ollie9]

Great post. I agree with much of what you say.
I thought Donna Summer was a fine singer and a nice person too. She was much nicer to me than some of the other guests at Diva's 2000. She even made me a cup of coffee in her dressing room. All the other guests had people running around after them and would not have lifted a finger to do it themselves. The friction between her and Diana was NOT down to Donna. She behaved with class and dignity throughout the taping unlike certain other performers i could mention.
I don't think Donna was ever comfortable being a disco diva. It would not have been her chosen path. She made a few bad decisions [[who hasn't?) and paid a heavy price for her mistakes. May she r.i.p.

I also heard one or two nice things from industry folk that had worked with Donna. No diva tantrums from her.

[sup_fan]

Great post. I agree with much of what you say.
I thought Donna Summer was a fine singer and a nice person too. She was much nicer to me than some of the other guests at Diva's 2000. She even made me a cup of coffee in her dressing room. All the other guests had people running around after them and would not have lifted a finger to do it themselves. The friction between her and Diana was NOT down to Donna. She behaved with class and dignity throughout the taping unlike certain other performers i could mention.
I don't think Donna was ever comfortable being a disco diva. It would not have been her chosen path. She made a few bad decisions [[who hasn't?) and paid a heavy price for her mistakes. May she r.i.p.

wasn't Donna supposed to join Diana and Mariah for a medley of the Sups hits?

[reese]

wasn't Donna supposed to join Diana and Mariah for a medley of the Sups hits?

In this piece, there's some brief footage of Donna's rehearsal with Diana and Mariah. I've heard that she pulled out because she felt uncomfortable in the wardrobe they were slated to wear but Bluebrock probably knows better.

[sup_fan]

In this piece, there's some brief footage of Donna's rehearsal with Diana and Mariah. I've heard that she pulled out because she felt uncomfortable in the wardrobe they were slated to wear but Bluebrock probably knows better.

it was a micro mini dress lol sexy but maybe too skimpy. perhaps they could have done complimentary ones giving Mariah the skimpiest and then slightly more modest ones for diana and another for donna.

[Bluebrock]

I also heard one or two nice things from industry folk that had worked with Donna. No diva tantrums from her.

None at all Ollie. She was so lovely and kind to everyone who encountered her. I met her again when she flew to London to film a tv special. Westlife were guests on the show and they were similarly enchanted by her. Years later when i met the guys again they mentioned how much easier it was to work with Donna than it was to work with Diana or Mariah. A very classy act.

[Bluebrock]

wasn't Donna supposed to join Diana and Mariah for a medley of the Sups hits?

Yes she was but there was a backstage disagreement and Donna decided not to take part.

[Bluebrock]

it was a micro mini dress lol sexy but maybe too skimpy. perhaps they could have done complimentary ones giving Mariah the skimpiest and then slightly more modest ones for diana and another for donna.

It was something along those lines. By this time i had almost lost the will to live. My blood pressure was going through the roof. I realised i was getting too old to be running around trying to pacify needy Divas. Luckily my daughter lived in New York City and i was able to escape from all the madness and mayhem.

[reese]

Donna did seem to be a genuinely nice person. Since she was a hometown girl [Boston], she was always a source of pride to us. I still remember that she gave a free concert here when SHE WORKS HARD FOR THE MONEY was released and they broadcast it live on the radio.

I have to admit that I am not intimately familiar with Donna's work, aside from the obvious hits. I loved her voice but she was one of those artists that for me, a greatest hits and / or live album would suffice. But on the afternoon of one of her concerts, I got the urge to go see her and managed to get a front row seat. It was one of the best concerts that I've been to and I made sure to see her the next time she was in the area.

[reese]

it was a micro mini dress lol sexy but maybe too skimpy. perhaps they could have done complimentary ones giving Mariah the skimpiest and then slightly more modest ones for diana and another for donna.

I think the dresses that Diana and Mariah wore were actually Mariah's.

[sup_fan]

It was something along those lines. By this time i had almost lost the will to live. My blood pressure was going through the roof. I realised i was getting too old to be running around trying to pacify needy Divas. Luckily my daughter lived in New York City and i was able to escape from all the madness and mayhem.

Randy's book goes into some of the chaos of this show. the challenges with the sound system, the lack of rehearsal, Diana's typical expectation of perfection and how it was NOT being met, Diana's unfortunately poor vocal performance, her unscripted decision to go out into the audience

[Boogiedown]

Donna was in her fifties with adult children by then. That alone and add to it her religious convictions and no surprise she didn’t want to
Parade around that way.
the Mariah of today should have taken notes.