Florence Ballard's funeral rare footage [[1976)

[motownhost01]

I would just like to share with my fellow Motown/Supremes fans a rare footage that I had just found. I'm always after rare stuff -- informations, videos, pictures, recordings, etc -- concerning Florence Ballard of the Supremes. I hope you all will enjoy to see such a rare moment between Diana Ross and Mary Wilson while giving an eulogy to Florence Ballard!

[REDHOT]

I know where you [[motownhost01) just got this from, my YouTube channel lol you just edited this from the video that i posted.

[motownhost01]

I know where you [[motownhost01) just got this from, my YouTube channel lol you just edited this from the video that i posted.

With all due respect I did that to share an specific of that video that wasn't concerning Diana Ross, since the whole documentary was really about her. But I do give you acknowledgment for sharing the documentary and thank you because I never saw that certain footage and I felt it would be nice to share this specific part for the Flo fans to be amused as I was when I did.

[Ollie9]

Is it any wonder Mary was furious at being called up to speak. She looks grief stricken and totally bewildered in this short clip. How we cope with grief is personal to each of us and this was not part of a show........Well to most.

[RanRan79]

Is it any wonder Mary was furious at being called up to speak. She looks grief stricken and totally bewildered in this short clip. How we cope with grief is personal to each of us and this was not part of a show........Well to most.

I don't think Diana was treating this as a show. She claims she wanted to bring some calm to the chaotic service. I really think that was easier for her to say than perhaps be more forthcoming with her feelings: that she just wanted to say something about Florence at her funeral. Diana often plays up her aloofness in order to hide her vulnerable side. There was another thread where we talked about the impact of Flo's death on Diana and Mary not too long ago. My position was that it was a severe pain for both of them, that they never got over. [[Let's be real, you never get over the pain of the loss of a loved one anyway.) Mary dealt with her pain by talking about Flo every chance she got. Diana buried hers and then on top of it, had the added pain of knowing that there are people who actually blame her. I feel for the lady.

But she was out of line for pulling Mary into this. You don't put people on the spot at a funeral. And it is one more example of how Diana sometimes thinks only of her own feelings and doesn't consider that of others.

That being said, it would have been really nice if the two of them could have gathered together beforehand and planned to sing something together at Flo's funeral, if they were in condition to do so. I think Flo would have really liked that.

[sup_fan]

I don't think Diana was treating this as a show. She claims she wanted to bring some calm to the chaotic service. I really think that was easier for her to say than perhaps be more forthcoming with her feelings: that she just wanted to say something about Florence at her funeral. Diana often plays up her aloofness in order to hide her vulnerable side. There was another thread where we talked about the impact of Flo's death on Diana and Mary not too long ago. My position was that it was a severe pain for both of them, that they never got over. [[Let's be real, you never get over the pain of the loss of a loved one anyway.) Mary dealt with her pain by talking about Flo every chance she got. Diana buried hers and then on top of it, had the added pain of knowing that there are people who actually blame her. I feel for the lady.

But she was out of line for pulling Mary into this. You don't put people on the spot at a funeral. And it is one more example of how Diana sometimes thinks only of her own feelings and doesn't consider that of others.

That being said, it would have been really nice if the two of them could have gathered together beforehand and planned to sing something together at Flo's funeral, if they were in condition to do so. I think Flo would have really liked that.

yeah i agree with a lot of what you said. i think the fact that the whole event was so chaotic and disorganized, you ended up with people doing things with the right intention but perhaps the wrong tactics.

as much as i feel for mary and her personal grief - come on and get serious here. the trade off of celebrity, fame and money is that your life is in a fishbowl. and this wasn't just any death - if it had been mary's mother or a sibling, someone that wasn't part of the spotlight and celebrity, then yes. a more private situation would be possible. but this wasn't the death of a relative of Mary's or a personal friend. this wasn't the death of some random performer that was part of a group that had 1 mid-sized hit. this was the sudden and shocking death of A SUPREME. there is just no way this couldn't have been a massive media circus. Diana Mary and Flo were the most famous women in modern popular music. the 3 of them were a group and so the death of one forces the entire thing into a public affair. and so it would be expected for M and D to do or say something.

now the problem was how it was planned and carried out. it is shocking that D and M didn't [[as far as i know) have a phone call. they were still rather good friends in 76 and Flo had died. i just can't believe there wasn't some dialog, consoling, reaching out. i'm only going off of the fact that there are no public mentions of it. maybe they did and we just don't know.

Someone planning the whole affair should have also reached out and said "diana, mary - look you know you're going to have to say something. we don't expect a 30 min eulogy but can you stand up and say a word or two?"

[RanRan79]

yeah i agree with a lot of what you said. i think the fact that the whole event was so chaotic and disorganized, you ended up with people doing things with the right intention but perhaps the wrong tactics.

as much as i feel for mary and her personal grief - come on and get serious here. the trade off of celebrity, fame and money is that your life is in a fishbowl. and this wasn't just any death - if it had been mary's mother or a sibling, someone that wasn't part of the spotlight and celebrity, then yes. a more private situation would be possible. but this wasn't the death of a relative of Mary's or a personal friend. this wasn't the death of some random performer that was part of a group that had 1 mid-sized hit. this was the sudden and shocking death of A SUPREME. there is just no way this couldn't have been a massive media circus. Diana Mary and Flo were the most famous women in modern popular music. the 3 of them were a group and so the death of one forces the entire thing into a public affair. and so it would be expected for M and D to do or say something.

now the problem was how it was planned and carried out. it is shocking that D and M didn't [[as far as i know) have a phone call. they were still rather good friends in 76 and Flo had died. i just can't believe there wasn't some dialog, consoling, reaching out. i'm only going off of the fact that there are no public mentions of it. maybe they did and we just don't know.

Someone planning the whole affair should have also reached out and said "diana, mary - look you know you're going to have to say something. we don't expect a 30 min eulogy but can you stand up and say a word or two?"

Sorry Sup, but this is an absolute bad take my friend. Yes, we're talking about celebrities, but they are still human beings and that doesn't get erased because millions of people know who they are.

No one is obligated to speak at a funeral. No One. Acknowledging someone's passing through a press release- or today on social media- is one thing. Getting up in front of hundreds of people to speak in the midst of grief is another. Yes, lots of people do it. I've done it. But I also prepared to do it. Mary was put on the spot. I had a similar situation play out in my family a few years ago. To those it happened to, it was mortifying. So I definitely get where Mary is coming from.

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

Celebrities have to be afforded the same rights the rest of us have when it comes to these things.

[jobucats]

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

It seems to me to be another "damned if she did, and damned if she didn't" scenario. If Diana had not included Mary in the moment in front of the coffin, she would have been damned as trying to put the spotlight on herself. Sure, it was a very awkward situation for both ladies. No win situation.

[Ollie9]

Sorry Sup, but this is an absolute bad take my friend. Yes, we're talking about celebrities, but they are still human beings and that doesn't get erased because millions of people know who they are.

No one is obligated to speak at a funeral. No One. Acknowledging someone's passing through a press release- or today on social media- is one thing. Getting up in front of hundreds of people to speak in the midst of grief is another. Yes, lots of people do it. I've done it. But I also prepared to do it. Mary was put on the spot. I had a similar situation play out in my family a few years ago. To those it happened to, it was mortifying. So I definitely get where Mary is coming from.

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

Celebrities have to be afforded the same rights the rest of us have when it comes to these things.

Agree 100%. Things could have gotten rather awkward had Mary declined. I wonder if Diana spoke to Berry regarding her attending. It probably wouldn’t have looked great having the two of them pulling up to the church in a plush limo.
I think it would have been better for Diana had she arrived together with Mary as opposed to the rather grand entrance she made.

[sup_fan]

Sorry Sup, but this is an absolute bad take my friend. Yes, we're talking about celebrities, but they are still human beings and that doesn't get erased because millions of people know who they are.

No one is obligated to speak at a funeral. No One. Acknowledging someone's passing through a press release- or today on social media- is one thing. Getting up in front of hundreds of people to speak in the midst of grief is another. Yes, lots of people do it. I've done it. But I also prepared to do it. Mary was put on the spot. I had a similar situation play out in my family a few years ago. To those it happened to, it was mortifying. So I definitely get where Mary is coming from.

Diana got up spur of the moment, which was fine. But that was a decision she made and it should have been based on whether or not she was in the frame of mind to speak. What she did to Mary was almost unforgivable. You just don't interfere with other people's grief, I don't care how much money or how famous. It's such a horrible experience grieving someone you love, especially when the death comes out of nowhere.

Celebrities have to be afforded the same rights the rest of us have when it comes to these things.

sorry Ran but i disagree with you, for the reasons i've stated. it's not a matter of right or wrong, of what would be nice or preferred. the fact is The Supremes was a popular group, each member received top-level public interest and adoration. Fans [[as we all have clearly demonstrated here) develop an intense personal bond with the public image and the members. therefore there would have to be some sort of a public setting to allow the fans and public to grieve and share in the situation. maybe what might have been better is a private funeral for immediate family and friends and then a public memorial service.

but you have fans that are more than just devoted followers. and the sups wasn't just some random group. all deaths are tragic so i'm not trying to see one is more important than the other. but if this was the passing of one of The Monitors or the Jewelettes or a random group, yeah you could get away without the big public brewhaha. but because this was the biggest, most successful female group in history, there is no way you can NOT have a public forum. and sorry - but D and M would have to be part of it. as beneficiaries of years of public adoration and money, there is a trade off in terms of privacy. fans would want to feel their grief is shared with their idols.

again i think the way in which it was supposedly handled was shoddy. but mary and diana had been major public figures for over 10 years when this happened. i don't think they could honestly have expected that they could just simply do nothing. the fact it wasn't coordinated ahead of time is appalling. and if mary had been asking "hey shouldn't we do something?" only to be told initially - no we're good. but then surprised with a "hey come on up" that's in poor taste too. But Mary was a celebrity and lived very very well off the fans support, as did Diana. right or wrong, fans would have felt they deserved some way to share in the grief with the girls.

[REYnoldo Chavez]

I don't think Diana was treating this as a show. She claims she wanted to bring some calm to the chaotic service. I really think that was easier for her to say than perhaps be more forthcoming with her feelings: that she just wanted to say something about Florence at her funeral. Diana often plays up her aloofness in order to hide her vulnerable side. There was another thread where we talked about the impact of Flo's death on Diana and Mary not too long ago. My position was that it was a severe pain for both of them, that they never got over. [[Let's be real, you never get over the pain of the loss of a loved one anyway.) Mary dealt with her pain by talking about Flo every chance she got. Diana buried hers and then on top of it, had the added pain of knowing that there are people who actually blame her. I feel for the lady.

But she was out of line for pulling Mary into this. You don't put people on the spot at a funeral. And it is one more example of how Diana sometimes thinks only of her own feelings and doesn't consider that of others.

That being said, it would have been really nice if the two of them could have gathered together beforehand and planned to sing something together at Flo's funeral, if they were in condition to do so. I think Flo would have really liked that.

That's a load of crap. Diane made it all about her and her massive ego. She's a vile hog.

[RanRan79]

That's a load of crap. Diane made it all about her and her massive ego. She's a vile hog.

Dude, get a life.

[sup_fan]

Dude, get a life.

looks like another idiot troll crept onto the forum. let's all just block him and then he'll be invisible

[Bluebrock]

That's a load of crap. Diane made it all about her and her massive ego. She's a vile hog.

She behaved very badly that day but your remark is uncalled for and out of order.

[sup_fan]

She behaved very badly that day but your remark is uncalled for and out of order.

i clicked on this person's profile. they've only been on the forum a brief time and making vile remarks. it's perfectly fine to not care for Diana or Mary or any of the motown stars but to just troll and post nastiness is of no value

if we all just block him then he'll essentially be tuned out

[REDHOT]

I'm sorry if i offended you motownhost01, now that you put it that way, i'm glad you did what you did, i Apologize motown01.

[motownhost01]

Don't need to apologize, you did not offend me at all. I'm sure you were well intentioned and so was I.
I'm a huge fan of Florence Ballard because of the story of her lifetime, her songs, her personality. If you are too, you probably know there are no footages of her after she was told to leave the Supremes, except for one quick video that shows her in the 1968/69 Bud Biliken parade in Chicago. Somebody else shared this video on youtube and did not said put it there that Florence Ballard was present so it was hard to find it. When that happened, I shared with a Facebook page called "Reflections: The Supremes legacy". I also shared a newspaper picture from 1975 when she was performing with The Deadly Nightshade. So it is very hard to have stuff about her around and when I find something rare I try to share with other because you get so overwhelmed when you see something that you never saw before concerning her.
So I apologize if I did not give you acknowlegment for this video, but I'm very happy you did share it on your YouTube channel!

[RanRan79]

Don't need to apologize, you did not offend me at all. I'm sure you were well intentioned and so was I.
I'm a huge fan of Florence Ballard because of the story of her lifetime, her songs, her personality. If you are too, you probably know there are no footages of her after she was told to leave the Supremes, except for one quick video that shows her in the 1968/69 Bud Biliken parade in Chicago. Somebody else shared this video on youtube and did not said put it there that Florence Ballard was present so it was hard to find it. When that happened, I shared with a Facebook page called "Reflections: The Supremes legacy". I also shared a newspaper picture from 1975 when she was performing with The Deadly Nightshade. So it is very hard to have stuff about her around and when I find something rare I try to share with other because you get so overwhelmed when you see something that you never saw before concerning her.
So I apologize if I did not give you acknowlegment for this video, but I'm very happy you did share it on your YouTube channel!

My fingers are always crossed that something will surface of Flo's solo career. She did a few television shows so hopefully that footage will appear somewhere.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary was still quite devastated over Florence's passing until she passed away herself. Mary was the optimistic one. She was raised in a middle class environment until her Mother came to Detroit to claim her. The security of middle class finances was replaced by the security of her very loving Mother, Johnnie Mae. Then she became a star in the Supremes. She had her tough times but never experienced anything like the passing of Florence. It devastated her, she was almost in shock and spoke about how it impacted her life seeing how terrible the World could be. Mary had the personality that she was happy and life was good. This showed her life wasn't always good. This was just sad to watch on film.

[sup_fan]

i can see both sides of the situation with D and M up by the casket. while i certainly appreciate and acknowledge mary's personal and private grief, she was/is a celebrity and this was a funeral for one of the Supremes. if this had been a family member or a private friend, ok definitely. she had to know that this would be a huge media story and like it or not, as one of the Supremes, she would probably need to have some sort of involvement

now how diana handled it wasn't really the best. something this huge in their lives should have prompted discussion and dialog. the 3 supremes had shared something so incredible and something that was such a significant component of their lives. so when 1 of them suddenly died, that should have initiated a discussion of the bond, lives, love, etc. And they should have said "ok we're gonna have to make some sort of statement" either to AP or at the funeral or something. regardless of how personal the situation was, by default this was a public situation as well

and what halfwit was planning this funeral?!?! lol not trying to be tactless here. i know it was totally unexpected but someone somewhere should have been making at least a few decisions. Someone had to decide where the funeral would be held, selecting the casket, the minister, what plot she'd be buried in. how could they not have said "ok we need to at least ask Diana and Mary if they'd like to say something" asking people to speak or eulogize is not out of the ordinary

[reese]

i can see both sides of the situation with D and M up by the casket. while i certainly appreciate and acknowledge mary's personal and private grief, she was/is a celebrity and this was a funeral for one of the Supremes. if this had been a family member or a private friend, ok definitely. she had to know that this would be a huge media story and like it or not, as one of the Supremes, she would probably need to have some sort of involvement

now how diana handled it wasn't really the best. something this huge in their lives should have prompted discussion and dialog. the 3 supremes had shared something so incredible and something that was such a significant component of their lives. so when 1 of them suddenly died, that should have initiated a discussion of the bond, lives, love, etc. And they should have said "ok we're gonna have to make some sort of statement" either to AP or at the funeral or something. regardless of how personal the situation was, by default this was a public situation as well

and what halfwit was planning this funeral?!?! lol not trying to be tactless here. i know it was totally unexpected but someone somewhere should have been making at least a few decisions. Someone had to decide where the funeral would be held, selecting the casket, the minister, what plot she'd be buried in. how could they not have said "ok we need to at least ask Diana and Mary if they'd like to say something" asking people to speak or eulogize is not out of the ordinary

Mary has said that she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Can you imagine having such an intimate subject never touched upon between the two people who had shared her greatest moments? It might have done both of them a world of good to get their feelings off their chests and may have pointed to a better friendship for them in the future as well.

Re the funeral, I assume Tommy and the family planned the funeral. I haven't seen the funeral program in a while so I don't remember if there was a speech section. But at practically every funeral I've attended, the floor was opened to those who wished to share their memories of the deceased.

[sup_fan]

Mary has said that she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Can you imagine having such an intimate subject never touched upon between the two people who had shared her greatest moments? It might have done both of them a world of good to get their feelings off their chests and may have pointed to a better friendship for them in the future as well.

Re the funeral, I assume Tommy and the family planned the funeral. I haven't seen the funeral program in a while so I don't remember if there was a speech section. But at practically every funeral I've attended, the floor was opened to those who wished to share their memories of the deceased.

i thought the direct quote from mary about no dialog with diana was referring to D's departure from the sups. but it could very well be that they never discussed Flo's passing either! and yes - that's just shocking if its true. i know there wasn't a huge amount of time between her death and the funeral. but still. this wouldn't be just a casual call from some random acquaintance.

and same for the funeral plan. Diana and Mary wouldn't be just anyone that wants to stand up and say something nice about the deceased. and often family does NOT want to speak. I'm not aware of Diana speaking at her mother's funeral [[i believe Rhonda did). and I don't believe mary attended her mother's funeral. both of those decisions i support 150% even if i might do otherwise.

but Flo's death, unfortunately, wasn't a private affair like both of those other events. as cold and heartless as it may seem, it was both a personal and a professional situation for them.

[reese]

i thought the direct quote from mary about no dialog with diana was referring to D's departure from the sups. but it could very well be that they never discussed Flo's passing either! and yes - that's just shocking if its true. i know there wasn't a huge amount of time between her death and the funeral. but still. this wouldn't be just a casual call from some random acquaintance.

In her books, Mary wrote that she and Diana never discussed Flo's departure or her death.

[RanRan79]

and what halfwit was planning this funeral?!?! lol not trying to be tactless here. i know it was totally unexpected but someone somewhere should have been making at least a few decisions. Someone had to decide where the funeral would be held, selecting the casket, the minister, what plot she'd be buried in. how could they not have said "ok we need to at least ask Diana and Mary if they'd like to say something" asking people to speak or eulogize is not out of the ordinary

I'm sure the family planned everything, specifically Tommy, maybe Mrs. Ballard. They may have asked Diana and Mary if they wanted to do anything. They may not have thought to ask considering that when you're in the midst of grief, you don't dot all I's or cross all the t's. This family had just lost Florence, a wife, a mother, a daughter, a sister so unexpectedly. I can imagine a scenario where Diana and Mary just aren't even crossing their minds. If either of them wanted so badly to be included in the service, it really would have been on the two women to reach out and express that, rather than wait to be asked by people who have more important things on their minds.

Regarding the chaotic-ness of the events, remember the service had to be moved up by a day because the public found out and it was sure to become a real shit show. Celebrities who planned to attend now would be unable to do so. Thankfully Diana and Mary, the Tops, some Marvelettes and Vandellas and Stevie Wonder were able to make it anyway. We all know how crazy everything ended up with the crowd outside. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if the funeral had taken place as originally announced? Yikes!

[jobeterob]

My opinion about this is not popular

But in all these incidents - from the funeral to M25 to RTL - I think Mary Wilson should have done the following and she would have financially benefited so much and the fans would have been satisfied so much more; what she should have done was bit her tongue and said to herself "well Diana is one of the biggest stars in the world and I have to shut my mouth and play second fiddle" and in the end, I'll benefit and so will many others.

But I didn't live through what Mary lived through; I didn't have to put up with Diana and Berry; Berry was a boss and quite a tyrant and enormously successful. Diana worked harder than anyone and was an enormously successful star who sometimes had to be a bitch.

And Mary analyzed it in her head and wouldn't do it. So as Randy T. said, in the end Mary got nothing and she lost Diana forever. Mary had to do everything she could to stir up publicity and compete with the FLOS for shows etc. and appear at pancake breakfasts and small fairs and complain about Diana every chance she could. And even had to ask Diana for money.

Maybe if I lived her life, I would have made the same choices she did.

[Ollie9]

I think wrestling Lisa out of Tommy’s arms when sensing a photo opportunity was rather insensitive.
It certainly worked as that was the pic that made the newspapers around the globe the following day.

[sup_fan]

I think wrestling Lisa out of Tommy’s arms when sensing a photo opportunity was rather insensitive.
It certainly worked as that was the pic that made the newspapers around the globe the following day.

haha yeah i think Diana made a lot of poor choices that day. the grand entrance while supposedly her mother, Mary and others waited in line. being seated in the front row. supposedly walking down the aisle, screaming and collapsing and having to be revived.

even if some of this was embellished by Randy and Miss Tonita Turner to add more juiciness to their books, the basic elements are definitely true.

[TNSUN]

I can't watch this video. I know that Diana Ross gravitated herself to comfort Flo's children, which defines her motherly instinct. Flo deserved more from Motown. Some may say that Flo was too instable for Motown. I believe some of her instability was caused by Motown. Although her pain from her personal rape trauma was never healed, Motown's greed compounded her suffering. A kinder corporate
ethic by Motown could have financially provided for Flo and her family. Motown had a finishing school for its artists. An employee relations department could have provided referrals to employees for needed personal therapy. James Jamerson and Florence Ballard were not the responsibility of Motown, yet they contributed to the success of Motown.

[sup_fan]

I can't watch this video. I know that Diana Ross gravitated herself to comfort Flo's children, which defines her motherly instinct. Flo deserved more from Motown. Some may say that Flo was too instable for Motown. I believe some of her instability was caused by Motown. Although her pain from her personal rape trauma was never healed, Motown's greed compounded her suffering. A kinder corporate
ethic by Motown could have financially provided for Flo and her family. Motown had a finishing school for its artists. An employee relations department could have provided referrals to employees for needed personal therapy. James Jamerson and Florence Ballard were not the responsibility of Motown, yet they contributed to the success of Motown.

unfortunately the whole industry of entertainment is pretty cut throat. motown certainly isn't unique in this regard. many stars [[d and m included) have stressed the need for newcomers to understand this is a BUSINESS.

another unfortunate thing is how society viewed things like mental health, rape and addiction. how these were approached in the 50s and 60s was very different from how people might approach them today. it doesn't justify the actions then but it does help explain. lord knows there'll be things we'd doing today that in 50 or 100 years will appear horrific and out of place.

in the end motown was a business with the goal of turning a profit. in order to turn that profit, they needed stars to perform and be popular. that's why they made up so much glop for the Sups PR pages and all - to spin a delightful story and sell more. there was a lot of money to be made and in a short time and so they needed people that could go and go fast.

[floyjoy678]

They never spoke of her death because that would mean they'd both have to take a look at themselves and their own flaws, which Diana especially was never good at doing. While I'm sure Diana and Mary both loved Flo, they probably felt some sense of guilt and that's never a good feeling to have. I think being booed probably startled Diana, who was already distraught. She even said herself years later it felt like walking into a lion's den.

I always did find it odd she ended up sitting at the front pew with Flo's family. I really can't decide where I sit on the fence with Diana and the funeral. There's a part of me that understands she probably wasn't in a clear state of mind and there's another part of me that's like woah she really did that?! [[like not going to the cemetery)

But I honestly can't believe that neither of them thought to call the other when they found out the news. And as others have said, it probably would have brought them closer together. But I've said this many, many times on here: communication was a not strong point between Diana and Mary. So many problems could have been avoided had it been.

[Ollie9]

They never spoke of her death because that would mean they'd both have to take a look at themselves and their own flaws, which Diana especially was never good at doing.

That’s a more then credible explanation Floy.

[Bluebrock]

They never spoke of her death because that would mean they'd both have to take a look at themselves and their own flaws, which Diana especially was never good at doing. While I'm sure Diana and Mary both loved Flo, they probably felt some sense of guilt and that's never a good feeling to have. I think being booed probably startled Diana, who was already distraught. She even said herself years later it felt like walking into a lion's den.

I always did find it odd she ended up sitting at the front pew with Flo's family. I really can't decide where I sit on the fence with Diana and the funeral. There's a part of me that understands she probably wasn't in a clear state of mind and there's another part of me that's like woah she really did that?! [[like not going to the cemetery)

But I honestly can't believe that neither of them thought to call the other when they found out the news. And as others have said, it probably would have brought them closer together. But I've said this many, many times on here: communication was a not strong point between Diana and Mary. So many problems could have been avoided had it been.

I recall an interview with Mary in Blues and Soul Magazine in 1976 when the Supremes were promoting the High Energy album in the UK. The interviewer was the then Editor of Blues & Soul John Abbey who many years later became a friend of mine. John asked Mary about Florence. This was of course just a few months after Flo's passing and it must have been fresh in her mind. Mary said something akin to "i called Diana and we both just cried'. I cannot recall the exact words she used but it was something similar to that. I may still have that copy of the magazine in storage, but maybe another UK member of this forum has a copy somewhere? The front cover had the same solo photo of Mary as the one on the back sleeve of the High Energy album. If Mary was telling the truth here then it would contradict her later version where she said she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Does anyone have a copy of this edition of B&S? I have tried to find mine but thus far to no avail. Some of my copies were destroyed in a flood many years ago but i managed to save many issues and i hope this one is still somewhere in storage.

[sup_fan]

I recall an interview with Mary in Blues and Soul Magazine in 1976 when the Supremes were promoting the High Energy album in the UK. The interviewer was the then Editor of Blues & Soul John Abbey who many years later became a friend of mine. John asked Mary about Florence. This was of course just a few months after Flo's passing and it must have been fresh in her mind. Mary said something akin to "i called Diana and we both just cried'. I cannot recall the exact words she used but it was something similar to that. I may still have that copy of the magazine in storage, but maybe another UK member of this forum has a copy somewhere? The front cover had the same solo photo of Mary as the one on the back sleeve of the High Energy album. If Mary was telling the truth here then it would contradict her later version where she said she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Does anyone have a copy of this edition of B&S? I have tried to find mine but thus far to no avail. Some of my copies were destroyed in a flood many years ago but i managed to save many issues and i hope this one is still somewhere in storage.

thanks Blue. seems sort of odd saying this but what a nice thing to hear. it's such a sad moment and i am glad that, supposedly, the two were at least able to connect over this tragedy rather than facing it without the other.

i hope that came our right. not trying to say this is "happy" but just that they were able to comfort each other

[RanRan79]

thanks Blue. seems sort of odd saying this but what a nice thing to hear. it's such a sad moment and i am glad that, supposedly, the two were at least able to connect over this tragedy rather than facing it without the other.

I wouldn't put much stock in it. Mary's assertion that the two never spoke about it seems more realistic in view of their relationship, where not communicating about such things seemed to be the rule, not the exception. Mary was from the Motown school of public relations. It was the same school that taught Diana to say that Flo left to go antiquing, or Shelly Berger to suggest that Flo sent a note to Diana saying she was through with the group, or Diana and Mary sitting down to discuss the end of the group if Flo left and if the group ended, Diana would marry Berry. In 1976 Mary Wilson would never have given an interview where she said she and Diana didn't talk in the wake of Flo's death, or talk about the death at all. 1983 Mary? Maybe. 1986 Mary? You betcha. But both Mary and Diana played their parts of the friendship Supremes publicly until things went south publicly and the gloves came off. Mary would never have been that forthcoming about even the smallest crack in her relationship with Diana in 1976, and vice versa.

[sup_fan]

I wouldn't put much stock in it. Mary's assertion that the two never spoke about it seems more realistic in view of their relationship, where not communicating about such things seemed to be the rule, not the exception. Mary was from the Motown school of public relations. It was the same school that taught Diana to say that Flo left to go antiquing, or Shelly Berger to suggest that Flo sent a note to Diana saying she was through with the group, or Diana and Mary sitting down to discuss the end of the group if Flo left and if the group ended, Diana would marry Berry. In 1976 Mary Wilson would never have given an interview where she said she and Diana didn't talk in the wake of Flo's death, or talk about the death at all. 1983 Mary? Maybe. 1986 Mary? You betcha. But both Mary and Diana played their parts of the friendship Supremes publicly until things went south publicly and the gloves came off. Mary would never have been that forthcoming about even the smallest crack in her relationship with Diana in 1976, and vice versa.

yes but couldn't the same be said about the Dreamgirl book and mary's later stances on Diana? the fact that she omitted Diana lending her money for a house and yet could recall some random evening in 1967 when diana was being a diva and made a road manager go find her a pizza in NYC at 1 AM or the time when they were 16 and "ran away" and then Diana was a Mean Girl and made mary sleep on the floor? lol

there was clearly selective memory recall with mary's books so it could certainly be possible that they did talk on the phone.

i do like to think that given their natural human emotions to learning of Flo's death and the incredible way their lives interacted through so many years that they did have contact with one another prior to the funeral. maybe they never discussed a coordinated eulogy but two people that were still on good terms who lost a third, close friend would most likely have some dialog

[westgrandboulevard]

I recall an interview with Mary in Blues and Soul Magazine in 1976 when the Supremes were promoting the High Energy album in the UK. The interviewer was the then Editor of Blues & Soul John Abbey who many years later became a friend of mine. John asked Mary about Florence. This was of course just a few months after Flo's passing and it must have been fresh in her mind. Mary said something akin to "i called Diana and we both just cried'. I cannot recall the exact words she used but it was something similar to that. I may still have that copy of the magazine in storage, but maybe another UK member of this forum has a copy somewhere? The front cover had the same solo photo of Mary as the one on the back sleeve of the High Energy album. If Mary was telling the truth here then it would contradict her later version where she said she and Diana never discussed Flo's passing. Does anyone have a copy of this edition of B&S? I have tried to find mine but thus far to no avail. Some of my copies were destroyed in a flood many years ago but i managed to save many issues and i hope this one is still somewhere in storage.

I am unsure if I have a copy of the Mary/Blues & Soul interview, but do you also remember an interview in the UK around that time, with Diana herself? If I can dig deep, I might even find it.

Am unsure if it was printed in a music paper.....or a national newspaper - which I think is more likely, and could well have been the Daily Mail.

It was titled 'The ghost that came to a press conference' [or similar words], and I believe was accompanied by separate photos of Diana and Florence. May have been at the 'Inn On The Park' - ?

Diana was being interviewed....she was asked about Florence passing away. I feel certain Diana said she answered a phone call, and heard Mary just crying, repeating "she's dead! she's dead!". Mary then told her it was Florence.

The interviewer then asked Diana did she cry...and she said "Yes, I cried.."

I remember reading it and thinking that interview could perhaps have been handled with more sensitivity. It seemed Diana might have become defensive about it, and feeling that the topic of Florence's death had overshadowed the real reason for her being there.

At one point in the same interview, I believe [if only just from memory] she was reported as saying "she's dead, and I'm not...".

And, reading that, I was left thinking "oh, Diana, you're only telling the truth, of course, but you are just not thinking how that remark might be taken..."

So, only just from memory, but it was Diana herself speaking, which was then reported in the press at that time, confirming that Mary had phoned her with the sad news. In that respect, it seems that Diana's account, and Mary's version in that interview with Blues & Soul, both from around the same time, do tally.

So I, too, thought it was odd that Mary later said she had never discussed it with Diana....but maybe she was just meaning 'in any great depth'......

[Bluebrock]

I am unsure if I have a copy of the Mary/Blues & Soul interview, but do you also remember an interview in the UK around that time, with Diana herself? If I can dig deep, I might even find it.

Am unsure if it was printed in a music paper.....or a national newspaper - which I think is more likely, and could well have been the Daily Mail.

It was titled 'The ghost that came to a press conference' [or similar words], and I believe was accompanied by separate photos of Diana and Florence. May have been at the 'Inn On The Park' - ?

Diana was being interviewed....she was asked about Florence passing away. I feel certain Diana said she answered a phone call, and heard Mary just crying, repeating "she's dead! she's dead!". Mary then told her it was Florence.

The interviewer then asked Diana did she cry...and she said "Yes, I cried.."

I remember reading it and thinking that interview could perhaps have been handled with more sensitivity. It seemed Diana might have become defensive about it, and feeling that the topic of Florence's death had overshadowed the real reason for her being there.

At one point in the same interview, I believe [if only just from memory] she was reported as saying "she's dead, and I'm not...".

And, reading that, I was left thinking "oh, Diana, you're only telling the truth, of course, but you are just not thinking how that remark might be taken..."

So, only just from memory, but it was Diana herself speaking, which was then reported in the press at that time, confirming that Mary had phoned her with the sad news. In that respect, it seems that Diana's account, and Mary's version in that interview with Blues & Soul, both from around the same time, do tally.

So I, too, thought it was odd that Mary later said she had never discussed it with Diana....but maybe she was just meaning 'in any great depth'......

I don't recall that particular interview but if you can find it i would love to see it. She didn't do an interview with Blues and Soul around that time so i expect it would have been with one of the National newspapers. Good luck with the search!

[floyjoy678]

Pondering about the non-communication between Mary and Diana actually just reminded me a friend's death in recent years. We had another mutual friend who I had a falling out with about 12 years ago and we didn't speak at all after. And she is actually the one who called me when our friend passed away. And I haven't seen her since the funeral and we fell off with communication again but we were able to put any petty BS between us aside for a few months there in light of our friend's death.

Eerily enough it was the same situation as Florence: an alcoholic who was having trouble getting her life together after a few down falls. And we both felt guilty that we weren't there for her more in the years leading up to her death. I still feel that way at times.

[jim aka jtigre99]

The thing is is that by 1976, all three original Supremes had taken a path in life completely separate from one another and the closeness they had when touring together was not as close now because they were all forming their own paths in life. Still, it was obvious that each of them loved one another. The video was tough enough to see without anyone resorting to uncalled name calling. Death hits all of us differentlty and I don't think that Diana and Mary are any different than any other human beings on this Planet. Their own personalities defined how they reacted. Diana has always been someone who was in charge and probably felt that there were things to be done to have it be right. Should she have called Mary up without first discussing it with her? No, but Diana was used to Mary in the group and always being there with her. She has stated that Mary wasn't the decision making sort of person so that is why she felt she she had to make decisions. Mary was all about her heart, her feelings and her love but by 1976 she was in an abusive marriage, dealing with Motown no longer caring about her or her group so naturally she was no longer Mary from the 1960's, she was stronger and more confident yet still thinking with her heart. By 1976, Diana had far removed herself from the Supremes and was focused on her stardom, movies and her children. It pains me to see anyone say unkind words that are unnecessary about Diana, Mary, Florence or any other Supreme for that matter.

[floyjoy678]

I don't know if it was the same interview but I recall an interview where Diana said something that she just wanted to shake Florence and snap her out of it. I know she got some flack for that one.

[RanRan79]

I don't know if it was the same interview but I recall an interview where Diana said something that she just wanted to shake Florence and snap her out of it. I know she got some flack for that one.

Yeah, which was stupid flack. Who couldn't understand Diana's frustration? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that Flo could've been shaken or slapped out of her downward spiral, but I think most people understand the sentiment. Mary said she understood. But every little thing Diana does or says has to be scrutinized, so...

[Ollie9]

I don't know if it was the same interview but I recall an interview where Diana said something that she just wanted to shake Florence and snap her out of it. I know she got some flack for that one.

Diana probably didn’t mean it a nasty way, but her comment did reveal a complete lack of understanding and empathy for anyone suffering from mental health.
It’s generally unlike women not to discuss personal and emotional issues with each other,
but for the Supremes it appears to have been the norm. Rather unusual considering all the time that they spent together.

[RanRan79]

Diana probably didn’t mean it a nasty way, but her comment did reveal a complete lack of understanding and empathy for anyone suffering from mental health.
It’s generally unlike women not to discuss personal and emotional issues with each other,
but for the Supremes it appears to have been the norm. Rather unusual considering all the time that they spent together.

I think a lot of people in Flo's life were frustrated by the whole situation. Mary criticized Flo's family in her second book, which I found totally unfair. Mary wrote about how frustrated she was with Flo when Flo came out for a few days or a week's visit. If Mary could be frustrated in so short a time, how does she think Flo's family felt dealing with Flo nearly every day?

Mental health just wasn't understood on a mass scale like it is today. Even today it is still not given the respect that it deserves, hence why so many folks seem to be untreated and undiagnosed, melting down- in one way or another- in public. So it's not surprising that there was an attitude about Flo at the time, like "Why doesn't she just get herself together".

Diana always portrayed her relation to Flo's drinking as if she couldn't understand why Flo would do that to herself. I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for years now, for Diana to speak on Flo's drinking in relation to Diana's drinking. Does she get it now, having been through her own substance abuse issues? If that abandoned book from her early sobriety period ever shows up, maybe I'll get my answers.

[Ollie9]

I think a lot of people in Flo's life were frustrated by the whole situation. Mary criticized Flo's family in her second book, which I found totally unfair. Mary wrote about how frustrated she was with Flo when Flo came out for a few days or a week's visit. If Mary could be frustrated in so short a time, how does she think Flo's family felt dealing with Flo nearly every day?

Mental health just wasn't understood on a mass scale like it is today. Even today it is still not given the respect that it deserves, hence why so many folks seem to be untreated and undiagnosed, melting down- in one way or another- in public. So it's not surprising that there was an attitude about Flo at the time, like "Why doesn't she just get herself together".

Diana always portrayed her relation to Flo's drinking as if she couldn't understand why Flo would do that to herself. I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for years now, for Diana to speak on Flo's drinking in relation to Diana's drinking. Does she get it now, having been through her own substance abuse issues? If that abandoned book from her early sobriety period ever shows up, maybe I'll get my answers.

That statement came from Diana in 76 where mental health was more understood though not nearly as much as it is today. I would so love for one last book from Diana to see if time and experience have altered her views on so much that went down during her time as a Supreme.

[sup_fan]

That statement came from Diana in 76 where mental health was more understood though not nearly as much as it is today. I would so love for one last book from Diana to see if time and experience have altered her views on so much that went down during her time as a Supreme.

how about if we just get one basic book from Diana minus the syrupy platitudes and just talk about her experiences, what happened and how she felt about them. Sparrow was a worthless pile of tripe.

[sup_fan]

specific details in Mary's books are definitely subject to error. many fans on here have noted that. even Randy's books appear to have errors. i'm not saying they were necessarily peddling lies but we know through the years that exact info has been subject to changing.

when mary was writing Dreamgirl, there was no promise or contract for Book #2. clearly the success of Dreamgirl prompted a publisher to want another volume. but at the time of the original, most would expect this would be the only book. Mary clearly omitted the load for the house downpayment in Dreamgirl and doesn't talk about a phone call with Diana about Flo's death [[if it happened). my point was just because Mary didn't mention it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. it's possible with the trauma and chaos of the funeral she forgot it. its also possible she purposely omitted it like the loan because she wanted to present diana in a specific light.

but mary's book is definitely not a definitive account of everything that happened

[RanRan79]

specific details in Mary's books are definitely subject to error. many fans on here have noted that. even Randy's books appear to have errors. i'm not saying they were necessarily peddling lies but we know through the years that exact info has been subject to changing.

when mary was writing Dreamgirl, there was no promise or contract for Book #2. clearly the success of Dreamgirl prompted a publisher to want another volume. but at the time of the original, most would expect this would be the only book. Mary clearly omitted the load for the house downpayment in Dreamgirl and doesn't talk about a phone call with Diana about Flo's death [[if it happened). my point was just because Mary didn't mention it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. it's possible with the trauma and chaos of the funeral she forgot it. its also possible she purposely omitted it like the loan because she wanted to present diana in a specific light.

but mary's book is definitely not a definitive account of everything that happened

I'm not suggesting that Mary's books, or anyone else's, are definitive of the Supremes' story. Yes, Mary did not include the loan from Diana in her first book, but one may ask why would she since her first book focused on the Diana years of the Supremes. Mary also didn't talk about her domestic violence in her first book or a ton of other things she would eventually discuss in her second.

Do I believe it's absolutely impossible that what Mary said in the article never took place? Absolutely not. Sure, it could have, just like it could have been as Mary said it was in her book. Yes, I'm inclined to believe Mary's recollection in her book because to me it makes sense based off of what we "know" about their relationship, and the fact that it's hard for me to understand the angle she would have been using "we never talked about Flo dying" in her book if that were not true. What Mary said doesn't make Diana look bad. Mary never wrote "I reached out to Diana but she never called me back" or "I mentioned Flo dying to Diana and she screamed and yelled at me". Mary's says they never talked about it. So who would be the bad guy in that scenario? What rule would determine which woman had to start the conversation?

I believe Mary's story.

Is there a universe where Flo, in a moment of annoyance, said to Diana "F this music crap. I'm going into the antique business!"? Sure. Do I believe it? Nope.

[sup_fan]

I'm not suggesting that Mary's books, or anyone else's, are definitive of the Supremes' story. Yes, Mary did not include the loan from Diana in her first book, but one may ask why would she since her first book focused on the Diana years of the Supremes. Mary also didn't talk about her domestic violence in her first book or a ton of other things she would eventually discuss in her second.

Do I believe it's absolutely impossible that what Mary said in the article never took place? Absolutely not. Sure, it could have, just like it could have been as Mary said it was in her book. Yes, I'm inclined to believe Mary's recollection in her book because to me it makes sense based off of what we "know" about their relationship, and the fact that it's hard for me to understand the angle she would have been using "we never talked about Flo dying" in her book if that were not true. What Mary said doesn't make Diana look bad. Mary never wrote "I reached out to Diana but she never called me back" or "I mentioned Flo dying to Diana and she screamed and yelled at me". Mary's says they never talked about it. So who would be the bad guy in that scenario? What rule would determine which woman had to start the conversation?

I believe Mary's story.

Is there a universe where Flo, in a moment of annoyance, said to Diana "F this music crap. I'm going into the antique business!"? Sure. Do I believe it? Nope.

now come on ran. in the Prologue and Epilogue Mary included stuff from outside the 60s. and like i said earlier, she was able to have total recall on every single snarky thing Diana ever did [[the late night hamburger, the sleeping on the floor bullshit) and yet when diana did something hugely magnanimous specifically for Mary in her hour of need, she couldn't have acknowledged that? that's just fucked up

mary makes 1 line about how she and D would try and curb their drinking to encourage flo to slow down. otherwise she pretty much had diana doing nothing bet egging on the problem when plenty of people have said BOTH girls were actively trying to help flo until it really was too late. Diana might have tossed in the town prior to mary but still, mary couldn't remember 1 detail of all of that????? even just to make some general statements and lines. it's not that she had to give exact dates and timestamps.

but she really painted diana as a bitch and solely as a bitch. i don't discount or deny that those snarky things happened. plenty of people have absolutely said she was very difficult, had an "artistic temperament" was demanding, etc. But she did do good things and mary completely overlooked that.

[RanRan79]

now come on ran. in the Prologue and Epilogue Mary included stuff from outside the 60s. and like i said earlier, she was able to have total recall on every single snarky thing Diana ever did [[the late night hamburger, the sleeping on the floor bullshit) and yet when diana did something hugely magnanimous specifically for Mary in her hour of need, she couldn't have acknowledged that? that's just fucked up

mary makes 1 line about how she and D would try and curb their drinking to encourage flo to slow down. otherwise she pretty much had diana doing nothing bet egging on the problem when plenty of people have said BOTH girls were actively trying to help flo until it really was too late. Diana might have tossed in the town prior to mary but still, mary couldn't remember 1 detail of all of that????? even just to make some general statements and lines. it's not that she had to give exact dates and timestamps.

but she really painted diana as a bitch and solely as a bitch. i don't discount or deny that those snarky things happened. plenty of people have absolutely said she was very difficult, had an "artistic temperament" was demanding, etc. But she did do good things and mary completely overlooked that.

Mary started her book talking about Motown 25. Makes sense to start there doesn't it, considering that the show had taken place right before Mary started writing the book and the "shove" was big news? Mary ends the book talking about Flo's post Supremes life. Also makes sense, doesn't it, to dramatically end the book with the death of one third of the group? Everything else in between was about the 1960s Supremes. Again, where does Mary fit Diana's loan in? If she included that- seemingly out of the blue- why not include her domestic violence survival? What about her relationship with Flip Wilson? Why not address the controversy of the Supremes playing South Africa during apartheid?


I don't think anyone was prepared for just how successful Dreamgirl would become, but surely the publishers believed it would be successful or they wouldn't have bothered, right? So wouldn't it make sense that there was an "offer" on the table that if the first book does well enough, a sequel might be in order? So there was probably already an idea about telling the rest of the story.


Diana being depicted as a bitch in Mary's first book is up to interpretation, which I largely agree with. My question is what in the world does Mary's first book have to do with us discussing a passage from her second book? Somewhere along the way the first book entered the chat and I'm confused about its relevance.


So just to get us back on track, I'll repeat:


Do I believe it's absolutely impossible that what Mary said in the article never took place? Absolutely not. Sure, it could have, just like it could have been as Mary said it was in her book. Yes, I'm inclined to believe Mary's recollection in her book because to me it makes sense based off of what we "know" about their relationship, and the fact that it's hard for me to understand the angle she would have been using "we never talked about Flo dying" in her book if that were not true. What Mary said doesn't make Diana look bad. Mary never wrote "I reached out to Diana but she never called me back" or "I mentioned Flo dying to Diana and she screamed and yelled at me". Mary says they never talked about it. So who would be the bad guy in that scenario? What rule would determine which woman had to start the conversation?


I believe Mary's story.

[midnightman]

I think in 1976, Diana seemed oblivious to how her actions at the funeral would've been perceived. Looking at that footage, you can clearly see Mary was uncomfortable to have to be brought up to the stage. Everything was so chaotic that day that I'm surprised it didn't get worse than that.

Diana definitely could've handled things better than she did. And during those years, Diana and Mary were NOT close. At all. Having read the biographies, how can one assume they kept in touch when they didn't? I've taken this long to reflect on Diana's actions especially as she found her personal life in so much tatters that she resorted to drinking like Florence.

Diana's public persona is what I like to call toxic positivity. So positive that you try to hide the not so positive stuff until it consumes you. This is likely what was going on with Diana and probably still is. The books that have talked about Diana pushed her to a corner where she wouldn't show up in fears she would be asked those painful questions. Her actions in that funeral though were not excusable, I'm sorry. You don't show up at someone's funeral causing a scene, sitting in the front pew of the church with the deceased's family for a photo-OP and then throw your ex-singing partner off by bringing her to the front to speak when she was in no condition to speak up as she was grieving.

Diana left as soon as the funeral wrapped up while Mary stayed which shows that if anything she fed into the media's accusations that she was cold-hearted and only does things for show. I'm not saying Diana hated Mary and Florence but I am saying that she never considered their feelings on matters. In regards to Florence, she couldn't understand why Florence wanted some leads in songs and why Motown forced her to retire "People" just so Diana could sing it fully or why Mary felt the way she did about how she left the group since, according to Mary, she was never in the same vicinity with her, Florence, and later Cindy, unless it was time to hit the stage.

Diana herself did mention she felt alone during her Supremes tenure [[and that's usually cause she was almost always with Berry after February 1965) but whatever made her feel that way she will never fully explain and she has that right to but honestly it's frustrating when we have opinions from the other two originals - and Cindy - but Diana herself keeps her feelings bottled up. Honestly those four - especially the original three - should've gotten together somewhere during that period [[mid-1970s) and discuss their feelings but knowing how they were during this period, I doubt it. Least Diana and Florence had some nice conversations prior to Flo's sudden passing.

The whole thing is just sad.