Mary booed of the stage

[TheMotownManiac]

And what makes anyone think being managed by BG would really turn things around in the group

They had nowhere to go, but up. He wanted to work with the group, he had not want to work with a group before because he didn’t want to work with Jean. He was losing a lot of acts and knew that the Supremes name could generate a lot more income if handled correctly. They have nothing to lose.

[sup_fan]

But Mary had a point. Why would she let BG manage them again when he wasn’t doing anything for them

for 1 very specific and obvious reason - politics.

no one is going to deny that motown wasn't promoting the group. and while us fans try to clamor that they still had some shining moments, to be blunt they didn't. from 72 on the group was essentially dead and a failure. sorry to sound harsh but it's true. it wasn't that they were declining. it was that they had completely declined. they no longer commanded top personal appearance fees, their records sold next to nothing, they didn't make any MAJOR charts.

Mary said that Pedro enabled the group to continue. yes but like in a catatonic state and on life support. Was motown going to take the group back to #1? no. but pedro was using an old rusty life support machine. at least motown would have been providing a new model.

so going back to motown management couldn't have been any worse since the group was at rock bottom. if anything it might have simply meant the group ended. but they ended anyway within a year or so of motown's offer. but there is a SMALL chance motown would have given a modicum of support and the result could have been a single and album that sold a little bit more. So maybe Wheel would have charted at Pop #53 instead of #85. and maybe the MS&S would have at least charted. not super high but at least enough sales to enter the chart. if Mary and Pedro took MSG simply because they needed money, having motown manage the group at at least driving a little more sales of the material would have also accomplished this - more money

[BayouMotownMan]

Everything that everyone has said is in hindsight after the fact. What was BG and Motown doing for them from October 73 til before Pedro took over around May 1975. True BG wouldn’t have booked them for the MSG gig. But don’t kid yourselves thinking being managed my BG was going to be a return to the hit making days.

I'm not saying BG would have returned them to their glory days, that was long gone. But things surely would have been better than what they were. The ladies were getting crappy bookings. Motown would have secured them better bookings and better pay. There were times when the ladies played a venue and got little, and in some cases NOTHING, for their work. The Supremes had a heavy payroll.

I don't kid myself or anyone else that the Supremes would suddenly have had No. 1 records. Gordy would have gotten them some Top 40 action, big enough to secure better bookings. By doing this he would have punished Ross for challenging him. It's possible she would have settled down and allowed Gordy to fully manager her again. Had that happened the Supremes would once again have been tossed. But as it turned out, Ross challenged Gordy right up to about a year before she left the company. She let Gordy re-establish her recording career after the huge failure of The Wiz. Going into 1981 Diana Ross was selling huge amounts of records again. She was as crafty as Gordy and it was during this period she negotiated a deal with RCA for money Gordy had no way to get his hands on.

What I am saying is merely that the group would have continued a little longer had Gordy and Motown took over. And I seriously doubt their farewell would not have been amongst a booing, jeering audience.

[sup_fan]

They had nowhere to go, but up. He wanted to work with the group, he had not want to work with a group before because he didn’t want to work with Jean. He was losing a lot of acts and knew that the Supremes name could generate a lot more income if handled correctly. They have nothing to lose.

some of the fans have mentioned that when J and L left, motown and berry breathed a sigh of relief, thinking mary would retire. she even mentioned in her book that her upcoming nuptials seemed to mean to Berry that she was leaving. but unfortunately, other than joining J and L as a trio as some other label, she had no options. no label would have signed mary as a solo artist in 73. and i have to admit, her declining to leave with J and L was probably a good thing. frankly, IMO their professional relationship had disintegrated by this point. jean would have been no easier to work with at another label [[just as she wasn't as a solo artist) and so it would have been a disaster.

motown was not happy that mary hired S and C because they didn't want the group to continue. the word among some fans is that mary personally approached and pleaded with berry to not simply drop the act. i'm not sure of the timing of Mary's contract but since she had not alternatives, she pushed to keep the act going

and the group was still a relatively decent concert draw, especially internationally. die-hard fans and people were still turning out. maybe not in the volume as before but still decent. in 74 the group did a sizable tour of Australia and another of Japan. they played San Fran's Fairmont Hotel, the Riviera Hotel in Vegas. and Scherrie was drawing very strong praise from critics.

[RanRan79]

I think everyone has laid out a great case as to why it may have been in Mary's best interest to take Gordy up on his offer. However, as BG points out, this is all hindsight. If you think about it from where Mary was in the moment, it makes sense that she would turn him down. Berry had a track record of taking on acts and not doing anything with them. He had been doing that since some of the early days. There was zero reason for Mary to believe at the time that Gordy was seriously interested in managing the Supremes just because he inquired about it. Did he ask about it and lay out his ideas, or did he just say "La, la, la...oh hey Mary, how about you let me manage the group again"? Was this some spur of the moment request at a party or after a show? Or was it a business meeting where Gordy hoped to show Mary how serious he was?

Mary had to see that Pedro wasn't the manager the group needed. But Pedro was her husband, someone she believed was in her corner. Toss Pedro and replace him with Gordy, someone Mary knew was most likely not in her corner. Made sense to keep Pedro. Not only that, but once Mary allowed Pedro in, she was never in a position to kick him out. He may have killed her for the slight.

[RanRan79]

some of the fans have mentioned that when J and L left, motown and berry breathed a sigh of relief, thinking mary would retire. she even mentioned in her book that her upcoming nuptials seemed to mean to Berry that she was leaving. but unfortunately, other than joining J and L as a trio as some other label, she had no options. no label would have signed mary as a solo artist in 73. and i have to admit, her declining to leave with J and L was probably a good thing. frankly, IMO their professional relationship had disintegrated by this point. jean would have been no easier to work with at another label [[just as she wasn't as a solo artist) and so it would have been a disaster.

motown was not happy that mary hired S and C because they didn't want the group to continue. the word among some fans is that mary personally approached and pleaded with berry to not simply drop the act. i'm not sure of the timing of Mary's contract but since she had not alternatives, she pushed to keep the act going

and the group was still a relatively decent concert draw, especially internationally. die-hard fans and people were still turning out. maybe not in the volume as before but still decent. in 74 the group did a sizable tour of Australia and another of Japan. they played San Fran's Fairmont Hotel, the Riviera Hotel in Vegas. and Scherrie was drawing very strong praise from critics.

Ah yes, Mary Wilson, the unsignable recording artist. In a world where Maryann Farra and Tamiko Jones get recording contracts, Mary Wilson didn't have a prayer in having a record company record her.

I've come to amend my thoughts on Mary jumping ship with Jean and Lynda for another label. I agree, the relationship between Mary and Jean would not have changed from one label to another, as I believe their problems went beyond the stress of Motown. Plus Jean and Lynda would have been in a better position to overrule Mary on anything.

Had Mary's confidence in her abilities been what it should have been, it really was the perfect time to make a go at it alone. "Floy Joy" and "Automatically" were still fairly recent [[a year or two) singles where her voice is featured. She's still young enough to be pitched to different age groups, and gorgeous enough to use her looks as an additional selling point. All she had to do was believe in herself.

[sup_fan]

I think everyone has laid out a great case as to why it may have been in Mary's best interest to take Gordy up on his offer. However, as BG points out, this is all hindsight. If you think about it from where Mary was in the moment, it makes sense that she would turn him down. Berry had a track record of taking on acts and not doing anything with them. He had been doing that since some of the early days. There was zero reason for Mary to believe at the time that Gordy was seriously interested in managing the Supremes just because he inquired about it. Did he ask about it and lay out his ideas, or did he just say "La, la, la...oh hey Mary, how about you let me manage the group again"? Was this some spur of the moment request at a party or after a show? Or was it a business meeting where Gordy hoped to show Mary how serious he was?

Mary had to see that Pedro wasn't the manager the group needed. But Pedro was her husband, someone she believed was in her corner. Toss Pedro and replace him with Gordy, someone Mary knew was most likely not in her corner. Made sense to keep Pedro. Not only that, but once Mary allowed Pedro in, she was never in a position to kick him out. He may have killed her for the slight.

agree that given mary's situation, the odds of her tossing out Pedro are minimal. But she had admitted that she realized at some point the group would disband and she would go solo. what label did she envision her solo career on? it's possible she had ideas that other labels would be eager to sign her. but she had to realize that motown was probably a strong option, if not the only option. shouldn't she have been trying to build up internal support for this? wouldn't she have seen that playing along with Berry would only have helped this, even minimally?

of course i think the idea that she HAD to leave and go solo was one of her biggest mistakes. as i said earlier, in 74 the Supremes were still relatively popular. even though it had been several years since a major hit AND the constant shifting of group members. the group's legacy certainly haunted them but mary seems to have helped perpetuate this. if in 74, 75 and 76 the stage act had remained strong and popular, who's to say the group couldn't have enjoyed some longterm success. not DRATS era success but they could have continued to tour, record at motown, to appearances. etc. the MSC lineup likely could have lasted longer than another other iteration of the group. years and years. they could have had a comfortable career. not making tens of millions but maybe hundreds of thousands. But the old tired dream of the super rich, super carefree Supremes should have been set aside.

[after you]

What ever happened to Pedro

[daviddh]

Just saw a clip of FLOS and had to laugh actually.
Their opening number was Everybody Gets To Go to The Moon.
Really.
What is it with this song.
Just can't let it go but.
Hey must be me

[sup_fan]

Ah yes, Mary Wilson, the unsignable recording artist. In a world where Maryann Farra and Tamiko Jones get recording contracts, Mary Wilson didn't have a prayer in having a record company record her.

I've come to amend my thoughts on Mary jumping ship with Jean and Lynda for another label. I agree, the relationship between Mary and Jean would not have changed from one label to another, as I believe their problems went beyond the stress of Motown. Plus Jean and Lynda would have been in a better position to overrule Mary on anything.

Had Mary's confidence in her abilities been what it should have been, it really was the perfect time to make a go at it alone. "Floy Joy" and "Automatically" were still fairly recent [[a year or two) singles where her voice is featured. She's still young enough to be pitched to different age groups, and gorgeous enough to use her looks as an additional selling point. All she had to do was believe in herself.

sorry - my post wasn't really trying to say mary was unsignable. but let's be realistic. another label would certainly have been interesting in signing the supremes and i think they'd definitely want mary as part of that. i think if, let's say, Jean, Cindy and Lynda went to another label to say "hey we're the supremes and sign us" that label would have hesitated without having mary part of it. of course the whole issue of name ownership makes this moot.

i do think in late 73, if mary had had the confidence to go solo, i don't think other labels would have signed her. she didn't write her own material, she didn't produce her own material, and she had had minimal leads as the supremes and had been sort of the #2 position during the Jean years. my guess is that her most marketable period was 78 or so. at least she had had a lot more time on tv singing lead, in the shows. it's sort of the problem though of the Sups being "has beens" in 77/78 as opposed to much hotter back in 72.

[sup_fan]

What ever happened to Pedro

i'm not sure what he did professionally after the group ended and he divorced mary. the only thing i know is based on mary's book. not Sup Faith but the later edition where she combined both books and added a little epilogue. in there she talked about Turquessa getting married and there's a pic of the family together. she said that she and pedro were getting along now and that they'd both done some growing up. not sure what all she meant exactly or what all it implies. but sounds like people were in a better place

[milven]

What ever happened to Pedro

He's a gigolo on a cruise ship.

But seriously, whatever he was, he is probably retired now. There is very little mentioned about him anywhere. He is listed as a businessman in this link, but not much more is listed about him, not even his age

https://44bars.com/who-is-mary-wilso...ere-is-he-now/

[BayouMotownMan]

[QUOTE=milven;749357]He's a gigolo on a cruise ship.

He now goes by the name Pedro Ferre, apparently an alias, is on Linkden with a profile that reads like fiction.

[after you]

That’s the funniest thing I heard all week I hope he’s making money
Cruise ship

[BayouMotownMan]

The cruise ship comment is only half correct

[sup_fan]

The cruise ship comment is only half correct

i've always assumed Pedro and Tom Jones shared some key features. and like any drug, that can be addictive lol.

[BayouMotownMan]

Oh man, you can't put Pedro and Tom in the same category.

[jobeterob]

Oh man, you can't put Pedro and Tom in the same category.

But if they both had it, they had it and maybe that was something Mary liked that she didn’t elaborate on

[Ollie9]

Was Mary not a battered wife?.

[sup_fan]

Oh man, you can't put Pedro and Tom in the same category.

was just making an offcolor joke about a potential shared dimension lol. nothing else common between them

or are you implying someone's dimensions surpasses the other's? lol this conversation could quickly spiral lol