Do not critisize Touch

[BobbyC]

Hey guys--I want to discuss something that just happened a couple of weeks ago in a Motown Facebook group. I want to hear what you guys think.

For whatever reason, some Motown fan brought up the Supremes album Touch for discussion. Now, it's no secret that most fans of the 70's ladies love this record [[the album, not the song). In the comment section, predictably, virtually every reaction was positive-going-on-glowing. No surprise there. There was, however, exactly ONE comment by a guy who said "I never warmed to this one" or words to that effect. I was intrigued to know why he didn't like it--but some female fan attacked him pretty viciously, as if he'd said the album was trash and garbage. I was a bit disturbed that one fan thought the first guy couldn't have a different opinion on Touch, so I told the female fan that he had every right to his viewpoint.

Now here's the worst part. An hour or two later, one of the admins posted that he would no longer allow "negativity" in that FB group so I assumed he meant he'd ban people who didn't post glowing reviews. Now how is that going to work? How do you discuss anything if you're not allowed to disagree? That strikes me as absolutely insane. I could see if the guy was really nasty and vicious, but all he said was he never warmed up to Touch. I wanted to ask him what he didn't like about it, but now I will never get the chance. Was he banned? I don't know, but it would be horrifying if he did.

Just because someone has a different take should not be taken as a threat. Am I so insecure that just because one guy didn't like Touch, that I couldn't like it, either? What is the point of having a discussion group if everyone agrees? I already said this on the Beyonce/Diana Ross thread--this kind of mentality needs to stop. This is a dark road we don't really want to drive down.

Thoughts?

[reese]

I've long ago stopped commenting in certain groups on Facebook. Some people think any comment short of total praise is treason and it is really sickening, actually its rather scary.

Granted, I think many people suffer from "keyboard courage", by that I mean they say things online that they would never say in person. But still, it is scary.

[TheMotownManiac]

Rabid Mary fans. Rabid Ross fans. Rabid Beyoncé fans. The reason I like these worms is because I love watching different opinions and views evolve. If someone doesn’t like up the ladder or it’s my turn or I hear a Symphony, I don’t take it personally, but some do.

[BobbyC]

Thanks for the comments guys. I agree about the keyboard courage thing. I am 58 YO and when I was growing up, I learned that if I acted like an A-hole,I might get punched in the face. These kids seem to never have learned that lesson.

I find this anger over differing opinions extremely baffling because I am so not that way. I actually like being challenged! It's fun to spar. I'm a 70's Supremes fan but not a Diana Ross solo fan. Why would anyone give a damn? The sun is still going to come up tomorrow.

[reese]

Thanks for the comments guys. I agree about the keyboard courage thing. I am 58 YO and when I was growing up, I learned that if I acted like an A-hole,I might get punched in the face. These kids seem to never have learned that lesson.

The sad thing is that its not just kids. Sometimes a comment on Facebook makes me curious as to who would write such a thing. I'll look at their picture [if they include one] and they will be of a certain age and certainly old enough to know better.

I will admit that in the early days of the internet, I used to go back and forth with people. I never insulted anyone or their opinions but I didn't mind debating. But one day I was on the American Idol website and got into something with a fan over some rude remarks they made about Fantasia. Suddenly I pictured the person on the other end as a young pre-teen. As a grown man, just that thought alone made me stop and I haven't gone back and forth with anyone since.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I wonder what group this was as I belong to a few on Facebook. My opinions on all of the 70's Supremes albums changes constantly. I always thought Touch had the strongest and most full bodied singing by Jean Terrell but I have to say that it was never my favorite Supremes album. I think both Touch and Jimmy Webb are the more experimental albums by the group and don't follow the pattern of the usual Supremes sound so I can see why someone may have not warmed up to them as they did other albums. Still, I see much more negative comments on facebook and also You Tube and even here than saying I haven't ever warmed up to something. Then again, the admins probably wanted to nip in the bud any negativity that may arise going back and forth. I don't know the history of that specific group but I can see wanting to make sure that these fans don't get into a negative back and forth over nothing.

[sup_fan]

for the most part on FB, i think they allow for general discussions of the music. and allow for thoughtful criticism of songs or albums. i would have interpreted the admin's post as saying the vicious attack on this fan for a different viewpoint as the prohibited negativity, not the fact that he stated he didn't care for a song.

[gordy_hunk]

.... I always thought Touch had the strongest and most full bodied singing by Jean Terrell but I have to say that it was never my favorite Supremes album. I think both Touch and Jimmy Webb are the more experimental albums by the group and don't follow the pattern of the usual Supremes sound so I can see why someone may have not warmed up to them as they did other albums. ....

My first Supremes' LP was "New Ways But Love Stays", and so I wanted to buy the earlier one, "Right On". At that time, I had not heard 'Up the ladder to the roof' nor anything else by the Supremes. Both these were, [[together with Motown Chartbusters Volume 5) were the triggers for my love of Motown.

I remember when "Touch" [[the LP, as the single was never released here) was released, I just had to buy it, and I rushed from school to see if it had arrived in Boots [[which is where most of my records were bought). All three LP I thought were outstandingly good, and the majority of the tracks I thought were perfect. I can't recall if "Floy Joy" or "Jimmy Webb" came next, but both these were, for me, absolutely a non-starter. Yes, I did love "Automatically sunshine" and "Your wonderful sweet sweet love" and even "Floy Joy", but nothing else, and the Jimmy Webb had "I guess I'll miss the man", which was the only track I could listen to.

Fortunately, we all like / enjoy, and rate, tracks and LP differently which is so vital - otherwise it would be an extraordinarily dull life if we only liked to listen to the same material.

[daviddesper]

I don't think I am the person in question because I do not belong to any Facebook Motown group, but on here I feel comfortable saying that I never "warmed up" to the Touch album. Of course Nathan Jones was a great song and if I recall Johnny Raven is on that album as well. But I am not sure I could even name another song on it without looking them up. It just never grabbed me as an album. I will take Right On, High Energy, and the 1975 Supremes album any day over Touch, which should of course prove that I really AM a Supremes fan........I just have opinions.

[BobbyC]

I am relieved that you guys feel this way. It's good to hear. And Reece--believe me I know it's not just kids doing the nasty azz chit. I have been shocked at how grown friends of mine have acted on "social media." You know, when I first got online, I think in 1996, I found the internet exhilarating. I could finally talk to people about shared interests like Motown whereas I never could before. I could find music long out of print and find obscure stuff instantly. It was great.

Something changed around 2014. People started attacking each other. Everything went toxic, everything was a problem.

[sup_fan]

I don't think I am the person in question because I do not belong to any Facebook Motown group, but on here I feel comfortable saying that I never "warmed up" to the Touch album. Of course Nathan Jones was a great song and if I recall Johnny Raven is on that album as well. But I am not sure I could even name another song on it without looking them up. It just never grabbed me as an album. I will take Right On, High Energy, and the 1975 Supremes album any day over Touch, which should of course prove that I really AM a Supremes fan........I just have opinions.

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!! be gone!! a pox on your household for making such heinous comments

[sup_fan]

I am relieved that you guys feel this way. It's good to hear. And Reece--believe me I know it's not just kids doing the nasty azz chit. I have been shocked at how grown friends of mine have acted on "social media." You know, when I first got online, I think in 1996, I found the internet exhilarating. I could finally talk to people about shared interests like Motown whereas I never could before. I could find music long out of print and find obscure stuff instantly. It was great.

Something changed around 2014. People started attacking each other. Everything went toxic, everything was a problem.

while the Sup and DR groups can definitely drift into the toxic, is seems that most that i'm in remain pretty civil.

as for friends on FB, holy hell! like you, i'm shocked at how idiotic some of my friends can behave. frankly i've tended to unfollow a lot and to just not engage with most. this will eventually impact your algorithms and FB will slowly stop showing you as much of their content. 95% of my feed [[aside from the inane ads lol and sponsorships) is groups focusing on my personal interests like Sups, Titanic, vintage airlines, vintage toys, etc. Dumb crap that i find intriguing and enjoy connecting with others that share this interest.

frankly i see more than enough of my friends and have little interest in 1) their politics 2) what stupid thing their kids just did lol or 3) what they cooked for supper

[BobbyC]

Sup--be careful. I jokingly said "off with his head!!" on FB,
and I got a strike for "inciting violence." Yes, it's gotten that bad. I guess now you can't say "I could have killed him" without being put in internet jail.

David--I don't remember who made the post or even which Motown forum it was in--I just remember what was said.

[sup_fan]

I don't think I am the person in question because I do not belong to any Facebook Motown group, but on here I feel comfortable saying that I never "warmed up" to the Touch album. Of course Nathan Jones was a great song and if I recall Johnny Raven is on that album as well. But I am not sure I could even name another song on it without looking them up. It just never grabbed me as an album. I will take Right On, High Energy, and the 1975 Supremes album any day over Touch, which should of course prove that I really AM a Supremes fan........I just have opinions.

There was a special dj version of the Touch album released that incorporates a Sups pre-recorded interview along with a handful of the tracks from the album. Jean discusses the album and talks about how Frank builds out the tracks to tell a story. maybe not literally with each and every track. but something that flows.

Jean also describes the album as very touching and relaxing. she says it's not quite a "mood" album but how this title of the album sort of translates to the overall feel. Jean also mentions the track they did with Clifton Davis [[Here comes the sunrise) and how he also did Never Can Say Goodbye and how she wished the Sups had done it too.


with this story of love idea, i went through the tracks and tried to sort of outline the story. this is probably too literal but was interesting

This is the story - a relationship has ended, along with the despair and pain you feel
nathan jones - you start to dust yourself off and tell your ex to go jump in a lake
here comes the sunrise - a new day is dawning, you can go on
love it came to me this time - you start to love again
johnny raven - you're still exploring, some guys are good and some are players
have i lost you - a new relationship and you're always questioning will it work
time and love - the thrill of a new love
touch - the ecstasy of a new love
happy is a bumpy road - often love starts to unravel and there are bumps along the way
it's so hard to say goodbye - unfortunately sometimes love doesn't last and you have to go

so the story of the album is almost circular. plus the songs are amazing, there's much more variety in jean's vocals.

[sup_fan]

Sup--be careful. I jokingly said "off with his head!!" on FB,
and I got a strike for "inciting violence." Yes, it's gotten that bad. I guess know you can't say "I could have killed him" without being put in internet jail.

David--I don't remember who made the post or even which Motown forum it was in--I just remember what was said.

haha oh i've been there too. landed in FB jail a few times. once for calling someone white trash [[hey i know it's not a nice thing to say, but it can't really be mean if it's true!) lol

another for posting a crazy pic of AOC as a dominatrix and punishing Ted Cruz for his infamous trip to Cancun during that crazy TX freeze a year or two ago lol

[BobbyC]

I'm white trash and damned proud of it.

[sup_fan]

of course FB has spent all this time and money on searching out our comments like this and meanwhile there are 10,000,000 troll accounts which they do nothing about

[BobbyC]

I know. And they selectively enforce the rules.

[sup_fan]

I know. And they selectively enforce the rules.

exactly!

overall, in recent years, most of the discussions on here have been quite civilized. it's been lots of fun to hear the differing viewpoints on albums and songs. take the EA discussion. I've been repeatedly discussing what i don't like about the album, not trying to force that opinion on others or knock others down. but as part of the ongoing dialog with others that really enjoy the lp.

[BobbyC]

I agree,most of the people here on SD are grownups who can handle differing opinions or I wouldn't still be here. I just don't understand why anyone gets offended. It's ridiculous. I will never understand that until the day I die.

[danman869]

That kind of stuff is one of the main reasons why I deleted my Facebook account a few years ago. It was tough the first couple of months after reading and posting on FB had become such a part of my daily life, but... eventually I moved on. I've kept in touch with a few FB friends via e-mail and text [and on here, too! hee-hee!], but... I came to see that FB has become pretty toxic. Just my opinion.

I don't always agree with everyone's opinions here, but things seem generally more civil on SDF than they do on FB.

[BobbyC]

Yeah, I agree Dan. FB is incredibly toxic these days.

[Spreadinglove21]

If you want to witness a toxic Facebook Motown related group in action, go join one of the groups moderated by Patricia "Sweet Pea" [[forgot her last name, King or Washington or something like that). Anyway last fall after Gladys Horton's book came out I joined The Marvelettes group she runs [[with 8 or 9 other moderators that she calls "Vice Presidents"). One guy started an informative thread about the Marvelettes live album and placed the discussion within the larger context of the other live albums Motown was releasing at that time. Sweet Pea or one of the VPs warned him to keep discussion strictly focussed on Marvelettes and no other topic can be discussed in any way whatsoever, including Motown. He found that absurd and told them so and he got banned. I called the moderators out on their double standard as Sweet Pea in particular liked to post about how people did her wrong and stir up drama, or brag about her Motown contacts rather than post about the Marvelettes. Well, it didn't take long for me to be given the boot. That Marvelettes Facebook group was awful. And I understand other groups she runs are just as mercurial. And Sweet Pea and most if not all of her "Vice Presidents" are all retirement age if not well into retirement.

[BobbyC]

I remember her, Spreading.

[marybrewster]

It's everywhere, SDF included.

I recently posted an opinion on a matter and felt I was attacked unjustly, which is why I'll no longer be a regular contributor.

Not fishing for "poor Mary" comments, but if you want to know why regulars leave, there's your answer.

[gman]

TOUCH is and has been my fav Supremes career wide LP for about 15 yrs now...not always so....Right On and New Ways sounded exciting from the first play...the duet LPS?...ehh...both Touch and Floy Joy had their moments but didn't to my 12 yr old ears sound like they had much "grab"...but they had some....[[as opposed to the Webb LP which other than the first 2 songs displeased me from the start and still does)

As time went on, and I got used to a more relaxed way of enjoying things, both TOUCH & FLOY JOY became favs...far surpassing my taste for Right On [[which sounds like a bunch of excellent single maybe's) and New Ways [[which edged on mild psych).

I always wondered what Clarence Paul or Norman Whitfield could have done with Jean.

[sup_fan]

TOUCH is and has been my fav Supremes career wide LP for about 15 yrs now...not always so....Right On and New Ways sounded exciting from the first play...the duet LPS?...ehh...both Touch and Floy Joy had their moments but didn't to my 12 yr old ears sound like they had much "grab"...but they had some....[[as opposed to the Webb LP which other than the first 2 songs displeased me from the start and still does)

As time went on, and I got used to a more relaxed way of enjoying things, both TOUCH & FLOY JOY became favs...far surpassing my taste for Right On [[which sounds like a bunch of excellent single maybe's) and New Ways [[which edged on mild psych).

I always wondered what Clarence Paul or Norman Whitfield could have done with Jean.

both RO and NW make you want to dance. they're much more traditional Motown sound. Touch is really a more relaxing mood album. FJ is similar.

[RanRan79]

The sad thing is that its not just kids. Sometimes a comment on Facebook makes me curious as to who would write such a thing. I'll look at their picture [if they include one] and they will be of a certain age and certainly old enough to know better.

I will admit that in the early days of the internet, I used to go back and forth with people. I never insulted anyone or their opinions but I didn't mind debating. But one day I was on the American Idol website and got into something with a fan over some rude remarks they made about Fantasia. Suddenly I pictured the person on the other end as a young pre-teen. As a grown man, just that thought alone made me stop and I haven't gone back and forth with anyone since.

That's a great way to look at it Reese!

[RanRan79]

Something changed around 2014. People started attacking each other. Everything went toxic, everything was a problem.

Nothing changed. You either have on rose tinted glasses or just wasn't paying attention. I remember the Yahoo clubs/groups and the AOL forums, among other pre-2014 opinion forums and opposing viewpoints and opinions were always a source of drama. The same with the Youtube comment sections. The internet has always afforded keyboard warriors a safe place to be mean and nasty to other people because they can't control how others think or feel about any given issue, so they resort to name calling and other negative behavior, knowing that the person on the receiving end can't mete out a "proper" punishment.

The only thing I've noticed that's gotten worse over the years is the amount of racists who have discovered what fun the anonymity of the internet can afford them to say without consequence. They've always been around from when I first started using the internet for non-school related things, but it only got worse around 2008/09 and then much worse around 2016 and I imagine it'll get even worse as time goes on.

[RanRan79]

while the Sup and DR groups can definitely drift into the toxic, is seems that most that i'm in remain pretty civil.

as for friends on FB, holy hell! like you, i'm shocked at how idiotic some of my friends can behave. frankly i've tended to unfollow a lot and to just not engage with most. this will eventually impact your algorithms and FB will slowly stop showing you as much of their content. 95% of my feed [[aside from the inane ads lol and sponsorships) is groups focusing on my personal interests like Sups, Titanic, vintage airlines, vintage toys, etc. Dumb crap that i find intriguing and enjoy connecting with others that share this interest.

frankly i see more than enough of my friends and have little interest in 1) their politics 2) what stupid thing their kids just did lol or 3) what they cooked for supper

Sup, you into Titanic stuff too? Me too!

Most of my FB feed is 80s and 90s nostalgia groups, Black history and genealogy, some classic music, and friends and family. I don't care to interact in Motown FB groups, not that I've had a bad experience. I get my Motown and Supremes fix from SD and that's good enough for me.

[RanRan79]

There was a special dj version of the Touch album released that incorporates a Sups pre-recorded interview along with a handful of the tracks from the album. Jean discusses the album and talks about how Frank builds out the tracks to tell a story. maybe not literally with each and every track. but something that flows.

Jean also describes the album as very touching and relaxing. she says it's not quite a "mood" album but how this title of the album sort of translates to the overall feel. Jean also mentions the track they did with Clifton Davis [[Here comes the sunrise) and how he also did Never Can Say Goodbye and how she wished the Sups had done it too.


with this story of love idea, i went through the tracks and tried to sort of outline the story. this is probably too literal but was interesting

This is the story - a relationship has ended, along with the despair and pain you feel
nathan jones - you start to dust yourself off and tell your ex to go jump in a lake
here comes the sunrise - a new day is dawning, you can go on
love it came to me this time - you start to love again
johnny raven - you're still exploring, some guys are good and some are players
have i lost you - a new relationship and you're always questioning will it work
time and love - the thrill of a new love
touch - the ecstasy of a new love
happy is a bumpy road - often love starts to unravel and there are bumps along the way
it's so hard to say goodbye - unfortunately sometimes love doesn't last and you have to go

so the story of the album is almost circular. plus the songs are amazing, there's much more variety in jean's vocals.

That's a great way to look at the track list. Did you ever see what I did with the Surrender tracklist, turning it into an album that told a story?

[RanRan79]

It's everywhere, SDF included.

I recently posted an opinion on a matter and felt I was attacked unjustly, which is why I'll no longer be a regular contributor.

Not fishing for "poor Mary" comments, but if you want to know why regulars leave, there's your answer.

You won't get a "poor Mary" from anybody here. Just show up at our 25th anniversary celebration with your red dress on and light some "fireworks".

Seriously though, keep posting.

[sup_fan]

That's a great way to look at the track list. Did you ever see what I did with the Surrender tracklist, turning it into an album that told a story?

no but i'd like to see it! did you sort of build out a story with it too?

[RanRan79]

TOUCH is and has been my fav Supremes career wide LP for about 15 yrs now...not always so....Right On and New Ways sounded exciting from the first play...the duet LPS?...ehh...both Touch and Floy Joy had their moments but didn't to my 12 yr old ears sound like they had much "grab"...but they had some....[[as opposed to the Webb LP which other than the first 2 songs displeased me from the start and still does)

As time went on, and I got used to a more relaxed way of enjoying things, both TOUCH & FLOY JOY became favs...far surpassing my taste for Right On [[which sounds like a bunch of excellent single maybe's) and New Ways [[which edged on mild psych).

I always wondered what Clarence Paul or Norman Whitfield could have done with Jean.

I agree about RO. It does sound like an album with a bunch of potential singles. Not necessarily all potential hits, but certainly single worthy. I liked it from first listen. New Ways did have an edgy sound to it. I liked it also, but not as much as I liked RO. I was in love with TOUCH from the first listen. Of the three, it was my favorite. I got all three at the same time, I think it was the early summer of 1995. But Floy Joy I bought in 1993 and I loved it from first listen.

I think FJ is my favorite Jean Supremes album because I can listen to it from beginning to end and not skip a track, although I'm not terribly fond of "Oh Be My Love".

On the other hand, Touch's one drawback is "Time and Love" which sounds so out of place on an otherwise excellent lp. "Time" on RO or even New Ways, I would enjoy it. But on Touch it just doesn't make sense, sound wise, even though, as usual, Jean is in fine voice. Isn't there people who say they can hear Diana's original vocal bleeding through?

I really think Jean and Norman Whitfield could have been a real shot in the arm for the group.

[sup_fan]

It's everywhere, SDF included.

I recently posted an opinion on a matter and felt I was attacked unjustly, which is why I'll no longer be a regular contributor.

Not fishing for "poor Mary" comments, but if you want to know why regulars leave, there's your answer.

Mary - i'm guessing this has to do with the threads on the Grammys. Please know that I greatly value your input here in the forum. and if any of my responses in that thread hurt your feelings or offended you, i am sorry. It was a rather sensitive time for everyone. the crowd here has certainly dwindled over the years and I'd hate to lose someone that such a great fan and add so much to the dialog.

[RanRan79]

no but i'd like to see it! did you sort of build out a story with it too?

I'll see if I can track it down via the search function. Pray for me.

[sup_fan]

I agree about RO. It does sound like an album with a bunch of potential singles. Not necessarily all potential hits, but certainly single worthy. I liked it from first listen. New Ways did have an edgy sound to it. I liked it also, but not as much as I liked RO. I was in love with TOUCH from the first listen. Of the three, it was my favorite. I got all three at the same time, I think it was the early summer of 1995. But Floy Joy I bought in 1993 and I loved it from first listen.

I think FJ is my favorite Jean Supremes album because I can listen to it from beginning to end and not skip a track, although I'm not terribly fond of "Oh Be My Love".

On the other hand, Touch's one drawback is "Time and Love" which sounds so out of place on an otherwise excellent lp. "Time" on RO or even New Ways, I would enjoy it. But on Touch it just doesn't make sense, sound wise, even though, as usual, Jean is in fine voice. Isn't there people who say they can hear Diana's original vocal bleeding through?

I really think Jean and Norman Whitfield could have been a real shot in the arm for the group.

RO is just a great album. i don't know that there's a huge "theme" or concept going on there. other than maybe just solid excellent songs. sure Ladder, Everybody, Bill and Loving County share some general ideas on peace and harmony. But otherwise it's just track after track of excellent material

NW i think had the potential to be more of a fully crafted concept album. Similar to the Tops' Still Water but a very different style. here the girls are really making a statement for peace, togetherness and mankind, how love can go beyond just the typical love between two people. And to symbolize musically how all should be able to share together, brothers and sisters and all people, Frank brought together 3 genres of music [[pop, soul and opera) into one album. so the music reinforces the idea that the lyrics express.

the NW could have benefited from a few minor edits to it's track listing. I think Baby Baby from RO should have been held for this [[replaced Na Na). Maybe keep Come Together but frankly Time and Love fits quite well here.

[RanRan79]

I'll see if I can track it down via the search function. Pray for me.

Okay Sup, I finally found it, from a 2020 thread:

It's not often that we hear Diana in such a low place, but she plays the part well. [[It may have even fit her relationship with Gordy.) I wish the album didn't end with "All the Befores". It might have been interesting for the album to have a concept direction moving along with the tracklist. Now as best as I could, I have tried to give the album that direction, although it turned out to be a bit more difficult than I anticipated. Surely, had A&S had a direction in mind some songs would've been scrapped and replaced with more appropriate cuts. But here goes:

"I'll Settle For You" opens the show. Diana is still in the good phase of the relationship, though one might ponder the fact that she's "settling" for him. Next is "Surrender", and shit has gone south. She's feeling like he's withholding love. She's pacing the floor at night because his ass is out doing who knows what. She's crying. She's begging. He's used and abused her, so much so that she has felt like death is a better option. She demands he get his shit together. So while she's clearly in the midst of a horrible relationship, she still has some fight left. "I Can't Give Back the Love" finds that dude still won't act right, and so now she's left [[or kicked him out), but she is still hung up on him. "And If You See Him" finds her so emotionally spent that she's placing all of the blame upon herself and is begging him to come back. Apparently he comes back but now his shenanigans are so unashamed that he's attending media spectacles with the other woman in "Did You Read the Morning Paper". So now she leaves again, except she's so beaten down that she returns once again in "All the Befores", even while fully recognizing that she's in the worst relationship, but love is a helluva drug. Of course nothing changes, and the next time he hits her in the heart it hurts so bad that she can't even muster up the tears in "A Simple Thing Like Cry". But everyone has their bottom, and Diana finally has reached hers with "Remember Me". She takes the high road wishing this asshole the very best, while subtly reminding him of what he has lost. Sometime has passed and she runs into dude only to find that he now knows the pain of heartache in "Didn't You Know You'd Have To Cry Sometime". Everything he did to her, someone is doing to him. She walks away from that encounter singing her favorite Martha Reeves and the Vandellas song, "I'm A Winner" as she meets up with her current dude.

The one song that gave me the most trouble was "Reach Out I'll Be There". I considered placing it after "Remember Me" as the moment where she falls for someone again, but it didn't feel as right as some of the other placements.

[sup_fan]

i like the redo of the album track. normally i'd agree that ending with a ballad brings the mood of the overall album down too much. but did you notice that all of Diana's A&S albums have this? Dark Side, all the befores, I'm in the world. Although none of these 3 songs is a typical ballad. they're a bit more introspective

[TheMotownManiac]

You too are amazing. That’s what I love about this forum: fans that are so well connected to the music they love, that they can sit down and create these out of Surrender and Touch. It’s great, thanks for sharing. Do more!

[reese]

Nothing changed...I remember the Yahoo clubs/groups and the AOL forums, among other pre-2014 opinion forums and opposing viewpoints and opinions were always a source of drama.

I have to agree re the Yahoo groups. Some of them could get pretty hot. I even remember this one guy who used to copy my posts from one group and post them verbatim under his own name in another group. Should I have been flattered? I don't know. It left me feeling weirded out.

[daviddesper]

Several posts ago Sup Fan may have hit upon the reason why I never found Touch to be that great an album. He said it was a mood album. Well I guess back then when I was a 20-something, I had just lived through and enjoyed almost every minute of the Motown explosion of the 60s. That included the Diana-led hitmaking years in which just about every track roared out of your radio and made you get up and move. Fortunately some of the Jean-led songs did as well. But when I first heard Touch, I thought to myself "this is not the kind of Supremes record I am used to." So in other words, I did not want to hear the Supremes "in a mood." I wanted them to put me in one...or I should say to keep me in that same Motown frame of mind I had been in throughout the 60s.

Using the same reasoning, even though this may open up another can of worms, that is why I preferred the 60s material of Stevie and Marvin that was pure R & B over their later more socially-conscious material. Yes I understood how important it was in terms of society and where we were as a country, but musically it was just not the Motown that I had grown up listening to.

Bless the divine Miss Martha Reeves for giving me my greatest thrill of the 70s with the magnificent and criminally-underappreciated "Bless You" as well as its great follow-up album, but that was by far the Motown highlight of the 70s for me.

[thanxal]

Thoughts?

Facebook.

[[Enough said)

[Bluebrock]

My first Supremes' LP was "New Ways But Love Stays", and so I wanted to buy the earlier one, "Right On". At that time, I had not heard 'Up the ladder to the roof' nor anything else by the Supremes. Both these were, [[together with Motown Chartbusters Volume 5) were the triggers for my love of Motown.

I remember when "Touch" [[the LP, as the single was never released here) was released, I just had to buy it, and I rushed from school to see if it had arrived in Boots [[which is where most of my records were bought). All three LP I thought were outstandingly good, and the majority of the tracks I thought were perfect. I can't recall if "Floy Joy" or "Jimmy Webb" came next, but both these were, for me, absolutely a non-starter. Yes, I did love "Automatically sunshine" and "Your wonderful sweet sweet love" and even "Floy Joy", but nothing else, and the Jimmy Webb had "I guess I'll miss the man", which was the only track I could listen to.

Fortunately, we all like / enjoy, and rate, tracks and LP differently which is so vital - otherwise it would be an extraordinarily dull life if we only liked to listen to the same material.

I have to agree with you. I loved the initial three Jean led albums, but i found the Floy Joy album to be a crushing disappointment. I found it to be so dull, bland and lightweight. It's only saving grace was it's very short running time! I didn't think things could get any worse but then along came the Jimmy Webb project! It made Floy Joy seem like a masterpiece in comparison. It was the beginning of the end for me and by the time Jean and Lynda left i kind of lost interest in the group, but Right on, New ways and Touch are amongst the best Supremes albums of any era.

[sup_fan]

Several posts ago Sup Fan may have hit upon the reason why I never found Touch to be that great an album. He said it was a mood album. Well I guess back then when I was a 20-something, I had just lived through and enjoyed almost every minute of the Motown explosion of the 60s. That included the Diana-led hitmaking years in which just about every track roared out of your radio and made you get up and move. Fortunately some of the Jean-led songs did as well. But when I first heard Touch, I thought to myself "this is not the kind of Supremes record I am used to." So in other words, I did not want to hear the Supremes "in a mood." I wanted them to put me in one...or I should say to keep me in that same Motown frame of mind I had been in throughout the 60s.

Using the same reasoning, even though this may open up another can of worms, that is why I preferred the 60s material of Stevie and Marvin that was pure R & B over their later more socially-conscious material. Yes I understood how important it was in terms of society and where we were as a country, but musically it was just not the Motown that I had grown up listening to.

Bless the divine Miss Martha Reeves for giving me my greatest thrill of the 70s with the magnificent and criminally-underappreciated "Bless You" as well as its great follow-up album, but that was by far the Motown highlight of the 70s for me.

i have similar thoughts on Marvin and Stevie. yes i recognize What's Going On for it's tremendous impact on r&b and all of the topics it addresses. but frankly I'm a much bigger fan of I Want You. it had a mood-feel to it of course but the disco vibe is what i love. but yes, otherwise i focus on their bigger hits in the 60s