Cindy's Kidnapping - Farewell

[marybrewster]

We're all familiar with the story of Cindy's kidnapping. I'm curious on your thoughts of the following, but first, a timeline of events:

December 2, 1969 - Cindy's kidnapping
December 21, 1969 - final Sullivan performance
December 23, 1969 - January 14, 1970: Frontier

Cindy jumps from moving vehicle onto California highway to escape kidnapper. She's got bumps and bruises, but nothing life threatening, and the show goes on. But.....what if?

What if Cindy had broken her arms, or legs? Or WORSE? Are the shows and performances cancelled? Do Diana and Mary go on as a duo? Does Diana postpone leaving the group? Is Jean Terrell brought in early? Does Marlene stand in? Is Flo brought back on a trial basis? Is Syreeta tested?

This "event" could have really thrown a wrench into the machine. Thankfully Cindy was unharmed, and we'll never know, but.....

[REYnoldo Chavez]

The "Kidnapping" was Ross trying to off Cindy. The talon like claws of D Ross still drip with the blood of those that crossed her. Florence was next. Then Mary. Cindy has now suffered many "health issues" .... RLF and Ross have no limits to their terrorist acts.

[khansperac]

Can someone tell me more about this kidnapping?

[reese]

Can someone tell me more about this kidnapping?

Cindy came home from rehearsal one evening and was surprised by her building's maintenance man. With a knife he took from her kitchen, he forced Cindy to tie up her boyfriend and forced her into his vehicle. At some point, all of Cindy's fingers were cut as they struggled over the knife. While they were on the freeway, Cindy decided to leap from the moving vehicle and was rescued by [I believe] an officer who was passing by. The next day, her assailant turned himself in to authorities in Las Vegas.

[reese]

Re Cindy's group obligations, if her injuries were serious, I would think the FAREWELL and debut of the "New" Supremes would have been pushed back a month or two.

[khansperac]

Thanks Reese. Wow. What was the motive? Money?

[RanRan79]

Re Cindy's group obligations, if her injuries were serious, I would think the FAREWELL and debut of the "New" Supremes would have been pushed back a month or two.

I'd like to think that also, but sadly I'm not convinced. The way Gordy has been depicted by the cast of characters in the story of Motown recollections, I wouldn't bet on him not sticking to the schedule. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and go with your scenario as scenario #1.

Scenario #2 is Jean is brought in to take Cindy's place. I could see Gordy considering it somewhat of a test run for Jean and give her an idea of what to expect as a Supreme.

Scenario #3 is that the upcoming gigs would be cancelled, Diana would move forward with the solo career and Mary and Jean would wait on Cindy's recovery and then move forward with the group plans and there would be no official farewell.

Scenario #4 is, push comes to shove, Marlene, the ever faithful Supreme stand in, is brought in to complete obligations.

Scenario #5 is Flo is contacted to step in. Though she is hesitant, she decides to take a chance. The money will be good since the lawyer ran off with her bank. Flo steps in, she nails it and everyone tells Cindy to take as much time as she needs to recuperate. So much time in fact, that she doesn't need to come back at all because Flo is here to stay. Then the New Supremes get an even bigger jolt by welcoming Flo back into the group. Of course this scenario had almost zero chance of happening, but it's my favorite scenario.

[reese]

I messed up some of the details. Here's a story.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4028...r-arrested-69/

[reese]

I'd like to think that also, but sadly I'm not convinced. The way Gordy has been depicted by the cast of characters in the story of Motown recollections, I wouldn't bet on him not sticking to the schedule. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and go with your scenario as scenario #1.

Scenario #2 is Jean is brought in to take Cindy's place. I could see Gordy considering it somewhat of a test run for Jean and give her an idea of what to expect as a Supreme.

Scenario #3 is that the upcoming gigs would be cancelled, Diana would move forward with the solo career and Mary and Jean would wait on Cindy's recovery and then move forward with the group plans and there would be no official farewell.

Scenario #4 is, push comes to shove, Marlene, the ever faithful Supreme stand in, is brought in to complete obligations.

Scenario #5 is Flo is contacted to step in. Though she is hesitant, she decides to take a chance. The money will be good since the lawyer ran off with her bank. Flo steps in, she nails it and everyone tells Cindy to take as much time as she needs to recuperate. So much time in fact, that she doesn't need to come back at all because Flo is here to stay. Then the New Supremes get an even bigger jolt by welcoming Flo back into the group. Of course this scenario had almost zero chance of happening, but it's my favorite scenario.

Of these options, I could possibly see #3, although I think that Berry would prefer for DMC to go out with a bang and set the stage for Diana's solo career.

Publicity-wise, it would seem sort of cold for Diana to leave the act while her sister Supreme is laid up in the hospital.

[RanRan79]

Cindy's kidnapping floats under the radar when talking all things Supremes, so much so that I often forget it happened.

There was a thread in the past months or year or so where we were giving Cindy her flowers for her contributions to the group. I don't think her kidnapping was mentioned once. Think about what a traumatic experience that was, being kidnapped at knife point, and from your home, where you expect to be safe. And then two weeks later she's on TV being as Supreme as ever, carrying on for the show must go on. That's incredible! A lot of people who experience trauma have a hard time pushing forward for a much greater length of time. If one looked at it on paper, Cindy seemed to get up and move right along, although I'm sure privately was a different story. In any case, the way Florence should be commended for being a survivor of rape, and Mary a survivor of domestic violence, when there are many women who were unable to survive either one, Cindy should also be seen as a survivor and given the utmost respect for escaping and not allowing the situation to beat her down. Cindy Birdsong was one strong lady.

[RanRan79]

Of these options, I could possibly see #3, although I think that Berry would prefer for DMC to go out with a bang and set the stage for Diana's solo career.

Publicity-wise, it would seem sort of cold for Diana to leave the act while her sister Supreme is laid up in the hospital.

Yeah, the optics would be horrible for #3. #2 is the one I think would most likely happen.

[reese]

Cindy briefly discusses the kidnapping at 4:30.

[RanRan79]

Thanks for posting Reese. I've seen that interview before and forgotten all about it. Cindy looks so youthful here. I always thought in the Supremes she often looked and/or came across as older than the other Supremes she sang with. [[And of course she was, by a few years.) Here she looks so 1980s and fantastic. Her sweet spirit really shines when she's talking. I love her diplomacy when the Supremes' drama is brought up and her defense of Diana as a person. But it was interesting to hear her talk about the kidnapping. The interviewer was annoying, cracking jokes on something so serious. Even though Cindy vocalized how difficult it is to think back on, she didn't need to say it because I could see it. It's the one part of the interview where she has a moment where she seems uncomfortable and not the sunshine and rainbows vibe she put out in general. Beautiful lady, inside and out.

[sup_fan]

if Cindy's injuries had been more serious, they would have delayed the farewell shows. everything about Diana's departure was about PR. to have them do anything different would have been horribly received by the public as callus and unfeeling. it's possible that M and D and a third girl would have continued with the gigs. but they wouldn't have been the farewells. that had to be DMC.

The announcement of Diana's departure pre-dated the kidnapping by a month or so. so that would have continued. But they would have done everything to maintain the sugar and sweetness image of the girls. there would have been stories of Diana sitting in Cindy's hospital room reading to her, M and D visiting to keep her spirits up. if Cindy had been seriously injured, with broken bones and rehab, they would have continued with those general PR stories and pics. Diana might have gone ahead and started with some discreet solo things. an appearance on a talk show or something simple like that.

[Boogiedown]

What a botched interview. He leads Cindy into a story that’s never been fully told she’s willing to go there and he cuts her short by jumping off to ask , did you make a lot of money ?

Did the attacker know she was a supreme ? Where was he taking her ? What was Motowns reaction/ how did they handle it ? Did the guy have a history ? How did she manage to only have bruises jumping from a car doing 65 mph.?
Seems like the story was suppressed.
I don’t remember there being freeways in Vegas then …..there was just the strip and you drove it to get downtown …..

[danman869]

Did the attacker know she was a supreme ? Where was he taking her ? What was Motowns reaction/ how did they handle it ? Did the guy have a history ? How did she manage to only have bruises jumping from a car doing 65 mph.?
Seems like the story was suppressed.
I don’t remember there being freeways in Vegas then …..there was just the strip and you drove it to get downtown …..

If you read the linked newspaper article [and Randy Taraborrelli also wrote about it in CHMR], the kidnapping took place in her apartment in Los Angeles and the kidnapper drove [south] on the Long Beach Freeway towards...Long Beach. As the kidnapper approached the Pacific Coast Highway exit, he slowed down and Cindy took the opportunity to jump out of the car [her impacting with the freeway was what caused her bumps and bruises] and she then ran northbound along the southbound freeway towards traffic trying to get help. California Highway Patrol officers driving on the freeway spotted her and stopped to help. The same article also mentioned that the kidnapper abandoned Cindy's car in a neighborhood just to the west of the PCH exit from the freeway [19th Street and Canal Avenue]. There hasn't been any documentation of exactly how fast the car was going when Cindy jumped, but it probably wasn't 65MPH as Cindy probably would've sustained more serious injuries jumping out at that speed. The story probably was suppressed to some degree, but did get some local coverage [the article cited is from the Long Beach Independent--which morphed into the current Long Beach Press-Telegram and I'm sure that this incident was news in Long Beach and likely Los Angeles, if not the nation and world--this was, after all, the post-Manson family era and that kind of threatening violence was still a fear for many in not only the Hollywood crowd, but average people such as the La Biancas as well]. The connection to Las Vegas with this story is that apparently the kidnapper fled Los Angeles after abandoning Cindy's car in Long Beach and eventually turned up in Las Vegas where he was apprehended and charged.

[Boogiedown]

Excellent. Thanks for all the clarifying Danman.
I don't know this story at all, which is extremely strange that a Supreme gets kidnapped and the story is only page 10 news....and yes especially on the heals of the Manson story.
Maybe because it ended thankfully on a 'good' note and was over before it fully developed into something worse or was known about ?? But surely the kidnapper was on the loose for awhile.
OK so this happened in LA not Vegas.... they were rehearsing there , not Vegas.


So ...................did this guy know she was a Supreme?? Did Motown beef up security for the group ?? New policies??
Who visited her in the hospital?? Does Mary Wilson make no mention of this jarring incident??

[sup_fan]

aside from the kidnapping, this is a period where we've not had a ton of discussions. yes we've talked lots about the farewell show but not so much about the period of months leading up to it.

looking through the last 6 months of the group:


June 2 - 15 the infamous run at the Latin Casino in Cherry Hill NJ where Diana's dogs died

June 28 Flamingo Hotel Las Vegas. I only have info on this 1 date which seems odd, since they would surely have had a longer run there

June 30 - July 6 Carter Barron Theater, DC

July 8 - 12 Carousel Theater Framingham, MA

August 9 - Winnipeg Arena

Aug 16 Forum, LA

Aug 17 Sports Arena San Diego

Sept 22 Rowan and Martin's Laugh In [[diana solo spot)

Sept - GIT taping

Sept 26 Meehan Auditorium Providence RI

Sept 27 UMass Amherst

Oct 3 Boston College

Oct ? Albany Armory, Albany NY

Oct 5 - Hartford, Conn

Oct 18 - Hollywood Palace

Nov 11 - Tonight Show

Dec 21 - Sullivan

12/23 - 1/14 Frontier Hotel

[Boogiedown]

guess they liked the place to return again


they must have been one of the final acts before it closed permanently

[marybrewster]

aside from the kidnapping, this is a period where we've not had a ton of discussions. yes we've talked lots about the farewell show but not so much about the period of months leading up to it.

looking through the last 6 months of the group:


June 2 - 15 the infamous run at the Latin Casino in Cherry Hill NJ where Diana's dogs died

June 28 Flamingo Hotel Las Vegas. I only have info on this 1 date which seems odd, since they would surely have had a longer run there

June 30 - July 6 Carter Barron Theater, DC

July 8 - 12 Carousel Theater Framingham, MA

August 9 - Winnipeg Arena

Aug 16 Forum, LA

Aug 17 Sports Arena San Diego

Sept 22 Rowan and Martin's Laugh In [[diana solo spot)

Sept - GIT taping

Sept 26 Meehan Auditorium Providence RI

Sept 27 UMass Amherst

Oct 3 Boston College

Oct ? Albany Armory, Albany NY

Oct 5 - Hartford, Conn

Oct 18 - Hollywood Palace

Nov 11 - Tonight Show

Dec 21 - Sullivan

12/23 - 1/14 Frontier Hotel

Based on these dates listed, there's long periods of time where there's nothing. Perhaps these were breaks when Diana was working on her solo stuff, and M and C were working with Jean? Just seems to me there should have been a lot more performances, especially after it was announced Diana was leaving, but then again, that was early November? So how many could they have squeezed in?

Mary also lists July 31 as TOP OF THE POPS in "Dreamgirl", so I wonder if there were a few UK dates around there?

[reese]

aside from the kidnapping, this is a period where we've not had a ton of discussions. yes we've talked lots about the farewell show but not so much about the period of months leading up to it.

looking through the last 6 months of the group...

... June 28 Flamingo Hotel Las Vegas.

I only have info on this 1 date which seems odd, since they would surely have had a longer run there

It seems weird that the girls would have a June 28 date at the Flamingo, given that they had done an engagement [I assume exclusive] at the Frontier from January 30-February 12. These dates come from Mary's first book.

Here's another timeline of 1969 events.

http://dianarosssupremes.free.fr/Timeline%201969.htm

[Bluebrock]

Based on these dates listed, there's long periods of time where there's nothing. Perhaps these were breaks when Diana was working on her solo stuff, and M and C were working with Jean? Just seems to me there should have been a lot more performances, especially after it was announced Diana was leaving, but then again, that was early November? So how many could they have squeezed in?

Mary also lists July 31 as TOP OF THE POPS in "Dreamgirl", so I wonder if there were a few UK dates around there?

Not sure where Mary Wilson got that story from but the girls did not appear live on Top of the Pops around this time. I think they did a Sunday Night at the London Palladium but their only live appearances on TOTP in the 60's were Baby Love and Nothing but Heartaches.

[reese]

Not sure where Mary Wilson got that story from but the girls did not appear live on Top of the Pops around this time. I think they did a Sunday Night at the London Palladium but their only live appearances on TOTP in the 60's were Baby Love and Nothing but Heartaches.

I think it might have been some sort of video of people dancing to NO MATTER WHAT SIGN YOU ARE with various photos but I don't know for sure.

[sup_fan]

want to say that there's no reason to assume my excel page is accurate lol i think for the years that we've received Expanded Editions and the booklets, it's pretty good. but the other years are more suspect. I did take info from Mary's book and also stuff online. but all of that is open to debate

the Top of the Pops episode i believe is just them playing No Matter What Sign and the kids dancing. it's not an actual appearance [[similar to what a fan recently posted on one of the Sup Facebook grounds of YWSSL being played on Soul Train and the kids really having fun dancing to it).

My guess is there are a lot of one-night dates that are missing. dates are booked months ahead of time and so 1969 would have been a touch and go year. Berry really wanted to get her out of the group but they needed that big hit. Shame only just crept into the Top 10. Composer was released in March and bombed. so then in mid April they started work on Sign and thought it would be the winner.

my guess is plans/prep work for the announcement and farewell started to get organized but not heavily underway. They had the contract with NBC to do 3 tv specials. TCB was done and so they had two more to do. What if Sign had been a big hit? and that might have moved things back a few months? would the 2nd tv special still been DRATS? would it have been maybe tied into the farewell and therefore no Temps? would it have been saved for an early Diana-solo special? Did they maybe have an agreement with the Frontier that once they were ready to announce her departure, the final shows would be at their facility? so would they have been able to maybe do a summer gig there as the farewell?

[sup_fan]

guess they liked the place to return again


they must have been one of the final acts before it closed permanently

looks like the newspaper ad is from 67. i don't have DRATS playing Framingham but that could fit in the timeline. there are some gaps.

we know once Cindy joined, they did a bunch of state fairs that summer.

Once they wrapped up at the Flamingo from 6/29 - 7/19 they did:

7/29 Forest Hills Stadium [[was this a longer run or just one date?)
August [[specific dates i don't have) St Moritz Hotel in NYC, Ohio State Fair, world's fair/expo in montreal
8/13 - 19 Steel Pier, Atlantic City
8/26 - Lansdowne Park, Ottawa Ontario
8/27 - Roostertail, Detroit
9/1 - 4 Michigan State Fair
9/26 Hollywood palace
9/26 - Melodyland theater Anaheim [[with the Temps)
10/2 - 14 The Cave, Vancouver
October - mexico taping Tarzan
10/27 - Oregon University
10/29 - Portland Coliseum
11/3 - Sacramento Memorial Auditorium
11/4 - UCLA Pauley Pavilion, LA
11/19 - Sullivan doing In and Out, Thou Swell and Temps medley
12/5 - Univ Dayton Field House
12/22 - 31 - Deauville Hotel, Miami

so in the fall of 67 they did do some more touring with the Temps so the ad mentioning them makes sense. my guess is they played Framingham maybe in early Sept? after the MI State Fair? there's a gap there?

[Spreadinglove21]

This is morbid, but getting back to topic at hand, here's another what if--what if in jumping out of the car Cindy had been struck by another vehicle, permanently disabling her or even killing her. Then what? Get a replacement for her to carry on the gigs? Or end the Supremes there and then with Diana going solo [[Reach Out could have been promoted as Diana's tribute to her dear friend and fellow Supreme Cindy Birdsong), Jean recording solo and Mary left out in the cold [[Berry had no interest in her as a solo act only as a member of the Supremes)?

[sup_fan]

while morbid it is still a valid question. since they'd already announced the departure of ross, that would have moved forward. but with an appropriate delay. they probably would have delayed her first single until summer or so. the funeral would have been a big event [[not for the purposely of PR but just because of the death of a big celebrity).

they had already announced that Jean Terrell would be joining the group. it is possible that they would have looked for a 3rd girl to join but i think it would have been just as easy to simply say "in light of this tragedy..."

Berry's primary interest in the group was to launch Diana. after that, there were 2 reasons to keep the group intact. 1) lots of money to still be made from the group and 2) forcing the group into retirement just because Diana left would have caused a huge PR backlash. But in this scenario, it would have probably worked out to simply disband.

they would have lost the big Farewell show splash. perhaps the Sullivan spot would have worked simply as a memorial to Cindy. maybe D and M would have appeared simply to acknowledge their partner, talk about her, maybe photos and clips of them performing would have been shown.

[Boogiedown]

Doesn’t seem like a good time to kidnap somebody when she’s got two
Male friends there , lucky for him passive ones, and then leave them behind as witnesses.
this story seems oddly weak.
and again this in the shadows of Manson

added:
there is a write -up in Jet Dec 18 1969

her abductor was a "sloppy barefoot hippie-type Caucasian"

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Cindy's kidnapping floats under the radar when talking all things Supremes, so much so that I often forget it happened.

There was a thread in the past months or year or so where we were giving Cindy her flowers for her contributions to the group. I don't think her kidnapping was mentioned once. Think about what a traumatic experience that was, being kidnapped at knife point, and from your home, where you expect to be safe. And then two weeks later she's on TV being as Supreme as ever, carrying on for the show must go on. That's incredible! A lot of people who experience trauma have a hard time pushing forward for a much greater length of time. If one looked at it on paper, Cindy seemed to get up and move right along, although I'm sure privately was a different story. In any case, the way Florence should be commended for being a survivor of rape, and Mary a survivor of domestic violence, when there are many women who were unable to survive either one, Cindy should also be seen as a survivor and given the utmost respect for escaping and not allowing the situation to beat her down. Cindy Birdsong was one strong lady.

My God I LOVE what you said.

[reese]

looks like the newspaper ad is from 67. i don't have DRATS playing Framingham but that could fit in the timeline. there are some gaps.

we know once Cindy joined, they did a bunch of state fairs that summer.

Once they wrapped up at the Flamingo from 6/29 - 7/19 they did:

7/29 Forest Hills Stadium [[was this a longer run or just one date?)
August [[specific dates i don't have) St Moritz Hotel in NYC, Ohio State Fair, world's fair/expo in montreal
8/13 - 19 Steel Pier, Atlantic City
8/26 - Lansdowne Park, Ottawa Ontario
8/27 - Roostertail, Detroit
9/1 - 4 Michigan State Fair
9/26 Hollywood palace
9/26 - Melodyland theater Anaheim [[with the Temps)
10/2 - 14 The Cave, Vancouver
October - mexico taping Tarzan
10/27 - Oregon University
10/29 - Portland Coliseum
11/3 - Sacramento Memorial Auditorium
11/4 - UCLA Pauley Pavilion, LA
11/19 - Sullivan doing In and Out, Thou Swell and Temps medley
12/5 - Univ Dayton Field House
12/22 - 31 - Deauville Hotel, Miami

so in the fall of 67 they did do some more touring with the Temps so the ad mentioning them makes sense. my guess is they played Framingham maybe in early Sept? after the MI State Fair? there's a gap there?

In her book, Mary has them playing the Farmington Music Circus in Farmington, MA from 9/11-17. However, she might very well have meant Framingham.

[johnjeb]

In her book, Mary has them playing the Farmington Music Circus in Farmington, MA from 9/11-17. However, she might very well have meant Framingham.

Yes, it should have said Framingham, Mass. They performed there from September 11-16, 1967 with opening act The Temptations. I noticed that error when Mary's book was published.

I was there on opening night. I got Diana's autograph. If you look at the picture above, of the tent [I have never seen this pic], I was standing with a group of other fans outside the tent between the chain link fence and the building waiting for the ladies to head to their car. Cindy came out first. She told me she wasn't permitted to sign autographs. Mary was escorted out next, looking dazed and saying nothing. Diana came out last holding her little dog and signed autographs for a few of us. She signed my program of the DMF group in the gold outfits.

They appeared at the Carousel again in 1969 with Stevie wonder as opening act.

I always like to point out that it was in Framingham, MA where Diana previewed her "Let's See If Diana Ross Can Make It On Her Own" show in March 1970 at The Monticello supper club. Unfortunately I was away at college and missed this show.

About 5 years later the Monticello was a nightclub/disco and Mary, Cindy and Scherrie appeared there when they just reformed the group.

Just drove by the Monticello a couple of weeks ago while Christmas shopping. It's still a motel but nothing remains of the entertainment complex. The Carousel site is now an office park.

[reese]

I always like to point out that it was in Framingham, MA where Diana previewed her "Let's See If Diana Ross Can Make It On Her Own" show in March 1970 at The Monticello supper club. Unfortunately I was away at college and missed this show.

About 5 years later the Monticello was a nightclub/disco and Mary, Cindy and Scherrie appeared there when they just reformed the group.

Just drove by the Monticello a couple of weeks ago while Christmas shopping. It's still a motel but nothing remains of the entertainment complex. The Carousel site is now an office park.

Did the Monticello become the Chateau de Ville? I remember seeing ads for the latter all the time when I was a kid. Diana was advertised to play there in April 1977. But when the dates actually rolled around, it was Donna Summer instead.

[johnjeb]

Did the Monticello become the Chateau de Ville? I remember seeing ads for the latter all the time when I was a kid. Diana was advertised to play there in April 1977. But when the dates actually rolled around, it was Donna Summer instead.

Reese, I sent you a PM.

[reese]

Reese, I sent you a PM.

Many thanks!

[Roberta75]

Miss Cindy Birdsong is one of the nicest ladies on this entire planet PERIOD. Wishing everyone a safe and very blessed 2023 and I hope my lovely friend Bluebrock knows how much hes missed and loved.

Fondly,

Roberta

[Bluebrock]

Miss Cindy Birdsong is one of the nicest ladies on this entire planet PERIOD. Wishing everyone a safe and very blessed 2023 and I hope my lovely friend Bluebrock knows how much hes missed and loved.

Fondly,

Roberta

Happy New Year Roberta! Thank you for those lovely words.

[Roberta75]

Happy New Year Roberta! Thank you for those lovely words.

Youve made my New Year my dear Bluebrock. May countless blessing and much love fill 2023 for you and yours. Please stay around. Its just not the same without you.

[jobeterob]

So many knowledgeable and entertaining members have come and gone

Sometimes things are quite repetitive and seem like a deep dive to try and make conversation - unless Diana is singing at Glastonbury and gets a cold or there’s a Grammy nomination

I’m certainly not hoping for some wingnut to return, but I wonder if we could try and get some previous members back

[marybrewster]

So many knowledgeable and entertaining members have come and gone

Sometimes things are quite repetitive and seem like a deep dive to try and make conversation - unless Diana is singing at Glastonbury and gets a cold or there’s a Grammy nomination

I’m certainly not hoping for some wingnut to return, but I wonder if we could try and get some previous members back

Doubtful.

Not much left to talk about. Mary is gone; she always gave a lot of fuel for the fire. As you mentioned, Diana gave us a full 2022, but I'd surmise that will slow down in 2023. You can only have so many threads of "wouldn't Diana sound amazing singing the Campbell's Soup jingle"?

And the Expanded Editions are all but dead.

I know plenty of fans that have left SDF with no interest in returning. Sadly, I think that will continue.

[floyjoy678]

Doubtful.

Not much left to talk about. Mary is gone; she always gave a lot of fuel for the fire. As you mentioned, Diana gave us a full 2022, but I'd surmise that will slow down in 2023. You can only have so many threads of "wouldn't Diana sound amazing singing the Campbell's Soup jingle"?

And the Expanded Editions are all but dead.

I know plenty of fans that have left SDF with no interest in returning. Sadly, I think that will continue.

I've mentioned this before but when Mary died I was so depressed because it was also the death of the Supremes. I wish Diana would have carried on the torch but that will never happen. I'm just glad we have what was given to us through albums, tv performances, dvds, expanded editions, etc.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I agree that now that Mary Wilson has passed away that there is far less to discuss. She was the one who carried the legacy onwards. Of course, I am thrilled that Diana Ross is with us and had some success last year. Scherrie is celebrating 50 years since she became a Supreme abd tours with Susaye Greene and Joyce Vincent as the FLOS but honestly most in the Forum have never given her her dues and her tours are quite sporadic. Lynda Laurence retired. Jean Terrell does not perform. Cindy Birdsong is ill. Mary was the one who really sparked so much debate as well as interest in the legacy. There was quite a bit back and forth between members. I know the times I post things it sometimes gets responses or sometimes closes a short discussion. The times have changed and perhaps as Covid and Mary passing, others have different priorities and must no longer enjoy the SDF discussions in lieu of that. I'll stick around, but I get it.

[jobeterob]

I agree with all of you

Rolling Stone has a new list of the Top 200 singers of all time - Stevie was the top Motown artist; Aretha Whitney Sam Cooke and Mariah were at the Top. Diana was 87 and I think she may have topped Gladys - but as always the list had its flaws and biases

Glad to see some of you still here

[Boogiedown]

all points bulletin :

be on the lookout for a kidnapper with no shoes ....

[jobeterob]

Also Diana came out ahead of Michael Jackson in the Rolling Stone list

[luckyluckyme]

all points bulletin :

be on the lookout for a kidnapper with no shoes ....

What ???!!!! Is Chris Clark [one of the women who occupied/kidnapped Berry Gordy's interest and time] still going around barefoot???!!! [no disrespect intended, Chris].