Soul On The Rocks observation

**rovereab** · 06-08-2011, 05:04 PM

We have heard for years that Motown didn't really put a great deal of effort in support of the Isley Bros, however, I wonder if that is entirely correct. Soul On The Rocks is a strong album IMO and not overloaded with covers of other artists' songs as per the This Old Heart Of Mine album.

SOTR also spawned a big hit in the UK with Behind The Painted Smile.

Anybody else feel the same about the SOTR album?

Eamonn

RossHolloway · 06-08-2011, 05:32 PM

I think their recordings in general are overlooked and underrated.

**adrian** · 06-08-2011, 06:57 PM

I have the "Behind A Painted Smile" LP on UK Tamla Motown TML11112 which includes all the tracks from "Soul On The Rocks" [[in an entirely different running order) plus "Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While)" and "All Because I Love You". Presumably re-packaged like that to cash in on the popularity of "Behind A Painted Smile" in the UK.

**paladin** · 06-08-2011, 07:00 PM

"Soul On The Rocks is a strong album IMO and not overloaded with covers of other artists' songs as per the This Old Heart Of Mine album."

Interesting although they went on to make millions doing covers....makes you want to go hmmmmmmmm!

RossHolloway · 06-09-2011, 08:37 AM

Well if you think about it, how differently were the Isley Brothers treated than other Motown acts in recording material? Take for example two Supreme's albums: A-Go-Go, and Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland. On A-Go-Go only 2 tracks are original tracks, the rest are remakes. And on HDH, about half the tracks are remakes. And the Supreme's were the labels biggest act at the time. I don't think recording remakes was that uncommon in the industry at the time and it certainly wasn't uncommon at Motown. Heck Marvin Gaye's biggest hit -Grapevine- was a remake. Or look at Ain't No Mountain High Enough for Diana Ross, and there are other examples as well. But the thing is, I love the material the IB's recorded at Motown. I even love their remake of Stop! In The Name of Love lol. It's spirited and soulful. I also think the background singing is underrated as well. I just think that Motown was crowded at the time with exceptional singers and groups and many were already very successful by the time the IB's came to Motown. Did they get lost in the crowd? Somewhat. But they were also at a relatively small independent label, that just happen to have one of the hottest groups going during the 1960's. I really hope those guys can look back, objectively, and be proud of the music they recorded while at Motown.

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-09-2011, 09:13 AM

"..I really hope those guys can look back...."

So do I and it's a shame, that up to now, I am not aware of a more positive appreciation and acknowledgment.

Much later, Ronald Isley recorded a duet with Rod Stewart and even recorded a video performance for "This Old Heart Of Mine" and I was hoping to see something postive come out at that time but I didn't see it. Shame really.

**tamla617** · 06-09-2011, 12:29 PM

i might be wrong on this...but i think that in the uk the isleys were high up the list of motown favorites ,higher than marvin gaye except for grapevine,smokey except for tracks of my tears.uk motownchartbusters vol3 was the catylist for us
in my group of school friends.they were up with stevie,supremes,temps,edwin starr,four tops,jimmy ruffin.someone turned up with the uk tamla motown behind a painted smile lp,that really was IT!
they were different for a start,raw power,soulful[[we didnt know the meaning of soulful or raw power then!),noisy and to our ears way ahead of anything else [[that we had any chance of hearing over here) but like i said i could be wrong,but thats how i remember that time and bear in mind we had just started our teens and never heard anything much 'till radio one started in '67.

**roger** · 06-09-2011, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by tamla617

i might be wrong on this...but i think that in the uk the isleys were high up the list of motown favorites ,higher than marvin gaye except for grapevine,smokey except for tracks of my tears.uk motownchartbusters vol3 was the catylist for us
in my group of school friends.they were up with stevie,supremes,temps,edwin starr,four tops,jimmy ruffin.someone turned up with the uk tamla motown behind a painted smile lp,that really was IT!
they were different for a start,raw power,soulful[[we didnt know the meaning of soulful or raw power then!),noisy and to our ears way ahead of anything else [[that we had any chance of hearing over here) but like i said i could be wrong,but thats how i remember that time and bear in mind we had just started our teens and never heard anything much 'till radio one started in '67.

Well .. In the late summer of 1969 in Britain that could well have been the case ,, THE ISLEY BROTHERS were HOT!! .. with "This Old Heart of Mine" and "Behind A Painted Smile" both having gone Top 10 in the last few months and "I Guess I'll Always Love You" and "Put Yourself In My Place" only just missing out on the Top 10 too. Personally I loved their post-Motown recordings "Its Your Thing" and "I Turned You On" as well but they didn't sell anywhere near as well as their Motown material.

Mind you, I'm not sure why you never heard much before Radio One came on air .. the offshore stations were going strong for three years before that and Caroline managed to keep broadcasting into 1968 .. they were SO much better than Radio One IMHO.

Must mean that you are younger than me ..

Roger

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-09-2011, 07:46 PM

Roger

You're soon be reaching that point when you will keep silent.

I've passed it already!

**roger** · 06-10-2011, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown

Roger

You're soon be reaching that point when you will keep silent.

I've passed it already!

Well .. unless I manage to cheat nature there will be an eternity of silence sooner or later and until then I'm hoping to keep on making some noise [[ whilst eyeing up suitable funeral plans and cemeteries of course ) ..

Back to THE ISLEY BROTHERS .. personally I think that "This Old Heart Of Mine" was a much better L.P. than ""Soul On The Rocks" and is one of my very favourite "Classic Motown" sets .. on par with "Temptin' Temptations", "Going to A Go-Go" etc. .. all due to the HDH involvement. "Soul On The Rocks" was much rougher and to my ears didn't quite have the highs of "This Old Heart Of Mine".

Roger

**Sotosound** · 06-10-2011, 09:03 AM

I’ve also got the “Behind A Painted Smile” LP, and that benefits from the two excellent bonus tracks mentioned above [[Take Me In Your Arms + All Because I Love You) which, IMHO, makes it a better album than SOTR was. I wouldn’t want to rank any of the three albums [[TOHOM, SOTR, BAPS), but I think that the remakes on TOHOM aren’t as distinguished as those on BAPS.

All Because I Love You is also one of my favourite tracks, and better in its stereo mix, even if it’s then folded down into mono as was the case for the mono LP of BAPS, but it shouldn’t have been released as an A-side in the USA as it was probably too sophisticated and unusual for single buyers of the time.

This is one of three USA Motown single releases from 68/69 that eventually got flipped in the UK to give their artists big hits.

Martha And The Vandellas’ “I Promise To Wait My Love” got flipped in the UK and its B-Side “Forget Me Not” became a smash hit. “All Because I Love You” by The Isley Brothers got flipped in the UK to give them a smash with “Behind A Painted Smile”, and Jimmy Ruffin’s “If You Will Let Me, I Know I Can” got flipped to give him a smash with “Farewell Is A Lonely Sound”. In all three cases, the UK A-sides [[US B-sides) were stronger tracks and I do wonder who made decisions about US single releases back then.

**tamla617** · 06-10-2011, 11:18 AM

roger
i didnt listen to caroline the reception was so bad i gave up and radio lux.i think we must have heard things from friends with older brothers/sisters who had the money to buy and/or went to clubs and heard the records there.

**tomato tom** · 06-10-2011, 04:32 PM

Plus the U.K. got those two budget albums with all those unreleased tracks.We were spolied...Paulo xxx

**tamla617** · 06-10-2011, 04:43 PM

were they the emi starline ones?

**robbert** · 06-10-2011, 05:29 PM

I love their Motown material, great tracks are GotToHaveYouBack or TakeSomeTimeOutForLove. Their versions of Symphony and Stop! were refreshing covers, neatly re-arranged.

To my ears the Isley-sound was sort of "raw" material with unusual arrangements, not within the Motown Sound-frame of Tops, Tempts and Sups. Thanks to the underrated Ivy Hunter and some others at Motown. It all could happen between the same four walls of Studio 1.

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-10-2011, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by tamla617

were they the emi starline ones?

One of them...yes

**tamla617** · 06-10-2011, 06:14 PM

in the nice orange suits!

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-10-2011, 06:19 PM

That wasn't the one with the 7 previously unreleased tracks though...!!

**mysterysinger** · 06-10-2011, 07:15 PM

Regal Starline SRS5043 Isley Bros Greatest Hits [[1969)
1. This Old Heart of Mine [[Is Weak For You)
2. Put Yourself In My Place
3. That's The Way Love Is
4. Take Me In Your Arms [[Rock Me A Little While)
5. Take Some Time Out For Love
6. I Hear A Symphony
7. Behind A Painted Smile
8. Little Miss Sweetness
9. Stop! In The Name of Love
10. Got To Have You Back
11. I Guess I'll Always Love You
12. Nowhere To Run

Music For Pleasure MFP50014 Tamla Motown Presents The Isley Bros [[1972)
1 Born To Love You
2 Sad Souvenirs
3 My Love Is Your Love [[Forever)
4 Greetings
5 Nevermore
6 Ain't That Real Satisfaction
7 Little Miss Sweetness
8 Got To Have You Back
9 It's Out Of The Question
10 Save Me From This Misery
11 Good Things
12 Catching Up On Time

Soul On The Rocks is a fabulous album - but it took me some years to realise that! I appreciate the Isley's Motown sound more these days with that gospel tinge and truly great singing.

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-11-2011, 02:51 AM

MysterySinger

Tamla 617 is referring to Regal Starline 5098. I can't find a picture of it on the internet.

http://www.raresoulman.co.uk/index.p...ISLEY_BROTHERS

But I could find the one with the orange suits http://991.com/newgallery/The-Isley-...its-422862.jpg

SS 5098

**tamla617** · 06-11-2011, 10:00 AM

theboy.................
i got that mfp lp,they are wearing the same suits,certainly from the same photo shoot.i tried to look for that ss5098 too,nothing,zero,nada,zilch

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-11-2011, 11:14 AM

It's got a yellow cover, black writing and a reddish background and the guys wear dark suits. Plastered at the top is "Including 7 previous unreleased tracks".

Those tracks include Trouble, You've Got So Much To Shout About, It Moves Me To Tears, No Good Without You, Leaving Here, Share A Little Love With Me [[Somebody), I Can't Help It [[I Love You) etc

**luke** · 06-11-2011, 04:29 PM

I have said for years they havent gotten their due. There is no other group EVER that has had hits in every decade since the 1950s! I stumbled on All Beacuse I Love You last year and have been playing it ever since. Ronald's voice and the backgrounds sooo hot. This Old Heart of Mine is my all time fave Motown song. Once again the UK way ahead of the colonies!!

**mysterysinger** · 06-11-2011, 07:48 PM

Regal Starline 5098 [[1971)
1 Tell Me Its Just a Rumour Baby
2 You've Got So Much to Shout About
3 It Moves Me To Tears
4 Why When Love Is Gone
5 Trouble
6 No Good Without You
7 Whispers
8 All Because I Love You
9 Leaving Here
10 One Too Many Heartaches
11 Share A Little Love With Me
12 I Can't Help It

**Motown4Ever518** · 06-11-2011, 08:21 PM

When I received my copy of the Anthology a couple years ago, I felt it was one of the most lack luster sets in the series regarding recording dates, musicians etc. I was really looking forward to reading about for example, that This Old Heart Of Mine was originally assigned to whomever, or that the track was recorded on one day, the vocals a week later, and the background vocals the following day. My point being that even now they received desultory support as probably was the case when the original recordings were made. On the other hand, understanding a little about sales and marketing,[[35 years experience), I know that the pie is only so big, and you cannot place everything that you recorded all the time. So take your pick of the singles they made, other than TOHOM in the US, what songs should have not been promoted by other artists on the label, so that more Isleys singles could have been promoted? The bottom line is that there was a staggering amount of excellent material recorded at West Grand Blvd. And when you look at the fact that the Isleys good, to very good singles did not make it higher on the charts, I don't think Motown wanted to make less money, but the promotion people did an amazing job getting the records placed. Imagine going into a programmers office working the Tamla line only. "Mr. Programming Director, I 've got a new Miracles, Stevie Wonder, and Marvin Gaye that I would like you to add to the rotation, and could you increase the spins on the Marvelettes record you added the last time I was here. And my boss wrote a song for Brenda Holloway that i'll have the next time I'm here. As far as the two Isley Brothers in question, for me Soul on the Rocks gets the nod. "It's Out Of The Question", I play about when 4-5 times in a row when I put the CD in.

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-12-2011, 04:38 AM

Mysterysinger

Thank you for posting that. You're a clever lad, I wish I could do it.

**theboyfromxtown** · 06-12-2011, 04:40 AM

It's Out Of The Question as a flip side of trhe reissue of I'll Guess I'll Always love you and I can remember my ole skool mate going mad over that track...a Smokey song if I recall correctly.