Supremes interview 1966

[floyjoy678]

Not sure if this has ever been posted here but this is quite an awkward interview. I try not to focus on the drama of the group but it's hard to ignore the glares that Diana and Mary give Florence here. And then the interviewer making comments about the girls' weight. They all look exhausted too.

Was this just a talk show? Or did they perform a song on this show as well?

[danman869]

I've been aware of this clip for several years now, but watched it again now. I think our knowing the drama of the group may be influencing how this interview is being watched. That said, I am not noticing any "glares" from Diana and Mary at Florence. Also, the weight comments have to be taken in context; Diana at that time was very thin--probably more so than any other women working in the spotlight. We also have to consider that during her time in the group, Florence was never "obese." Was she heavier than Diana [and Mary]? Yes--but she was also a few inches taller than both and she was literally built differently. Flo was shapelier, curvier. Generally, in that time, that shapelier, curvier build was what women generally aspired to and what men considered attractive. The rail-thin look was just starting to take hold in the look [ugh, Twiggy rears her head as a reference to Diana again!] and so people saw Diana out front at 103 pounds--and a lean 103 pounds at that--and they would comment on the difference in interviews such as this. Flo certainly had a funny, snappy comeback when they talked about their weekly allowance being cut and Elwood Glover, the host, mentioned something about Florence not having enough money to feed herself. She made a joke about how she would probably start losing weight at any time. At least she had a sense of humor about it! All of these kinds of topics are just talking points for hosts. Mr. Glover, the host, was 51 years old at the time of the interview. He was born and raised in a different time than than any of us here [if anyone here on SDF is 107 years old--please do make yourself known!] and many people of that generation and the next treated and considered women differently. One could also mention how he pointed out that Diana forgot the lyrics in the middle of singing "Queen Of The House" during their concert at the O'Keefe Centre the night before. Was that obnoxious...or was it a great opportunity to [generally] ask, "what do you do in situations like that?" Perhaps a tiny bit of both.

Oh--and if anyone seemed to need to be "glared" at, I would have thought it would've been Mary. She certainly had the right to answer as many questions as she liked, but... boy, IMO some of the things she said sounded sort of dumb--not well thought out, but...presumably they were off-the-cuff answers.

ALL of this in mind, I'm sure they were tired. Besides their hectic tour schedule, this midday/lunchtime talk show was being taped probably 12 hours after they'd gotten off stage the night before and not when they'd been able to wind down and go to sleep. Which also likely means they'd already been up for several hours at that point. I'd bet they were exhausted when they were taping this. Diana looks to have little to no eye makeup on [especially compared to Mary]. Another factor? They were sitting in the sun on what appears to be a warm day in June [21,] 1966. There's the life of a top music group in the 1960s--going, going, going and making the best of things.

We have great discussions here [and my intent is not to try to flame-throw you, floyjoy678, in this response], but I think all of us here on SDF are guilty of sometimes putting too much of a 2022 [aka today's] spin on situations that happened back then. None of us today would expect a celebrity to accept questions about their weight or whatever and just laugh it off. It would be, "don't even ASK that kind of question." Like everything else, The Supremes were of their time. At the very end of this interview, when talking about what they may have given up to be successful in show business, Diana said that they would either be working other jobs [the implication being NOT in show business], going to school [college], or being a housewife. That's certainly an answer of its' time. Would a singer/group member in 2022 say the same? Probably not.

[danman869]

Oh! I forgot to mention this in my last post! That "$750 gown" that Diana mentioned [and that's not $7.50, as Elwood Glover pointed out--really??! LOL] in 1966... would in 2022 cost $6,858.24 per gown. Wow.

Also, I wonder whether it might have been the pale silver-blue large sequined gowns? Or maybe the red-orange-purple sequined gowns? Around that time was when they seemed to be starting to transition away from silks and chiffons and into more sequined gowns. Would be interesting to know what they wore during that appearance at the O'Keefe Centre on June 20, 1966! From the way this was implied to be expensive, I can only imagine it was something highly sequined like these that started to be worn on TV in the months after this interview.

[RanRan79]

I agree Dan. While we do sometimes give people passes from back in the day for being "of their time" when we shouldn't [[sometimes there is no excuse for cruelty and other negatives because of common sense), some of this stuff was just another day in the neighborhood.

I always enjoy this interview, but I've never noticed glares between the ladies. I've watched tons of their performances and interviews and not once have I ever noticed anything negative shooting between them. It's actually one of my favorite things about the original trio. We know now of all the crazy that was occurring behind the scenes, but when the cameras were on, these ladies were consummate professionals.

[sup_fan]

as for the weight discussion, there are other interviews where the girls tease Flo. like that infamous one that was first included on a 45 back in the day, then on 25th anniversary and then we've received alt version on some of the EE.

they talk about going into acting [[another of the typical canned responses) and Diana laughs that they're all big hams. then mary chimes in the Flo is shaped like a ham or something long those lines. they were getting slap happy and were no different then other teens and young adults teasing their friends.

was this a nice thing to say to flo? no. did it potentially give her body image issues that either fed into or were fed themselves by her mental struggles? possibly. it is typical of kids being dumb and goofing off? yes. have we all done it ourselves to our friends? yes

the weight situation is one the girls always had to deal with. they were quite thin and even in the 73 interview with mike douglas, jean comments that she's still dealing with holiday weight and they have fines. now was jean fat - no. but that doesn't mean that some gowns or costumes might not fit as well.

with flo, she wasn't fired because she was fat. she was fired due to a long series of problems - not showing up for shows and interviews and appearances and rehearsal and recordings. That alone would be sufficient for termination, especially the shows. any of us "normal people" would be fired if we just decided to skip out on some of our own important professional duties. her belligerence, her bad attitude, her mood swings, her combative relationship with the others - all this added to the problems. and then you have her weight and you have her supposedly just going through the motions on stage and not really "there." it wasn't just cuz she was fat.

[sup_fan]

Florence was never "obese." Was she heavier than Diana [and Mary]? Yes--but she was also a few inches taller than both and she was literally built differently. Flo was shapelier, curvier.

Flo was definitely a different body shape and type than Diana. but you can also see some striking difference between Flo's appearance in pics in 64 versus 67. there are pics of DMF on a tv show [[perhaps lloyd thaxton) in the red fringe mini dresses and promoting WDOLG album. the host is actually holding that lp. all three girls are very slender at this point. but you can still see that Flo's dress is a larger dress than diana's. you can just see that the waistline is different.

Flo's face also looks slender, as is her neck.

then if you look at pics from early to mid 67, you can see quite a difference.

in the photo shoot for the blue sequin gowns from Andy Williams, flo's face is quite full. even the makings of a double chin. this isn't post puberty teen body changes. it's fat. plain and simple.

Also from ages 20 - 24, women's bodies will tend to naturally fill out in the curves but not other places, unless you're becoming over weight. the hips will expand and curve, the bust fills out. but tummys chins and faces are not usually filling out at the age in life. those come later into middle age

i do agree with you that flo was not obese, like how Aretha was in later years. but flo was definitely getting big for her age

[sup_fan]

Oh! I forgot to mention this in my last post! That "$750 gown" that Diana mentioned [and that's not $7.50, as Elwood Glover pointed out--really??! LOL] in 1966... would in 2022 cost $6,858.24 per gown. Wow.

Also, I wonder whether it might have been the pale silver-blue large sequined gowns? Or maybe the red-orange-purple sequined gowns? Around that time was when they seemed to be starting to transition away from silks and chiffons and into more sequined gowns. Would be interesting to know what they wore during that appearance at the O'Keefe Centre on June 20, 1966! From the way this was implied to be expensive, I can only imagine it was something highly sequined like these that started to be worn on TV in the months after this interview.

this is probably more of the issue with any of the women's weight fluctuations. these costumes were crazy expensive. they might be on the rode with 6 - 8 sets and travel for a period with those. then off those went back to the "home base" and another set comes out. or some variation of that. if you're out on the road and one or two sets isn't fitting one girl, that's quite a problem. not to mention the expensive alterations required to let them out. but then what happens when the girl LOSES the weight - do you alter it back smaller again?

the logistics and expenses of their costumes demanded they be rigorous with watching their weight

[BobbyC]

I never saw a picture where Flo looked "fat," especially by today's standards. Anybody would look plump next to Diana Ross. Plus Florence had enormous hooters, which is good.

[Ollie9]

The ironic thing about Flo’s fluctuating weight problem being she was replaced by a woman who often looked less then svelte herself. I wonder if Cindy ever experienced BG making personal comments about her body or telling her she didn’t act like a star?. I’m guessing no.
Any and everybody would have appeared overweight when compared to Diana’s anorexic looking frame.
I have never seen a performance of Flo where i thought she looked overweight. Slightly larger then Diana and Mary, but certainly not a woman in desperate need of shedding fat.

[sup_fan]

i'm not saying flo looked like Nell Carter. but go look up the pics of Flo in fall 64 in those red fringe dresses and then look at her in the blue sequins photo shoot from Andy Williams. she's considerably heavier. and not just in the voluptuous way of big hooters.

[sup_fan]

The ironic thing about Flo’s fluctuating weight problem being she was replaced by a woman who often looked less then svelte herself. I wonder if Cindy ever experienced BG making personal comments about her body or telling her she didn’t act like a star?. I’m guessing no.
Any and everybody would have appeared overweight when compared to Diana’s anorexic looking frame.
I have never seen a performance of Flo where i thought she looked overweight. Slightly larger then Diana and Mary, but certainly not a woman in desperate need of shedding fat.

i would assume cindy, like any of the women, endured gordy's less than tactful comments and feedback.

if the girls were traveling with a set of gowns and a couple no longer fit cindy, it would not surprise me in the least if gordy made a comment of "ok - let's get that weight off." probably just like my mention of Jean on the Mike Douglas show. it was something all of them dealt with.

but cindy also wasn't contributing any of the major problems flo was. it wouldn't have been a "get thin or get fired" comment. just part of the typical notes and feedback.

if you look at those early pics of flo that i've referenced, yes. she was just a different build and a larger woman than diana. if you compare Flo in those early pics to flo in 66 in the orient in the red sequin gown, she's certainly filled out more, more womanly. the "heavier" pics and all seem to be post-orient. her face in the orient clips and pics doesn't look as full as her face on Sullivan doing happening. or in the pics of Coconut Grove or those blue sequins.

[Ollie9]

i would assume cindy, like any of the women, endured gordy's less than tactful comments and feedback.

if the girls were traveling with a set of gowns and a couple no longer fit cindy, it would not surprise me in the least if gordy made a comment of "ok - let's get that weight off." probably just like my mention of Jean on the Mike Douglas show. it was something all of them dealt with.

but cindy also wasn't contributing any of the major problems flo was. it wouldn't have been a "get thin or get fired" comment. just part of the typical notes and feedback.

if you look at those early pics of flo that i've referenced, yes. she was just a different build and a larger woman than diana. if you compare Flo in those early pics to flo in 66 in the orient in the red sequin gown, she's certainly filled out more, more womanly. the "heavier" pics and all seem to be post-orient. her face in the orient clips and pics doesn't look as full as her face on Sullivan doing happening. or in the pics of Coconut Grove or those blue sequins.

Perhaps not. Many, if not all those personal comments being aimed at Flo were born of a need to control those around him. Something Florence herself admits she resisted. Unfortunately such comments were more akin to “Flo, for a fat girl you don’t sweat much” as opposed to let’s try and get that weight off.
Perhaps with the far more compliment Cindy, agenda’s such as weight gain were left to others.
I have always believed that had Gordy had been a little kinder to Flo, some of those ‘major problems’ might have been averted. Yes this was showbiz and they were all working their socks off, but it’s important to see things from both sides.

[marybrewster]

The business of show business is rich in history of obsessing about weight. Lisa Welchel from THE FACTS OF LIFE has famously talked about how the producers would send her to "fat farms" or how Joan Rivers would call them THE FATS OF LIFE. Looking at clips now, Lisa, at least to my eyes, doesn't appear fat at all. More recently, Carrie Fischer was told to lose 30 or 40 pounds for a STAR WARS film.

As mentioned, every body type is different. Flo was built differently than Diana; taller and bustier. Was the fact that Flo was too fat, or Diana was just too skinny?

[marybrewster]

Just an observation:

Cindy slipped right into all of Flo's old gowns, with no alterations to speak of. And she certainly wasn't drowning in them either.

[blackguy69]

Actually not quite. Flo and Cindy were not the same size or height. Cindy was shorter and had a different built So alterations were done. Also remember when Flo put on the tuxedo made for Cindy, it was too small and tight.

Just an observation:

Cindy slipped right into all of Flo's old gowns, with no alterations to speak of. And she certainly wasn't drowning in them either.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

The ironic thing about Flo’s fluctuating weight problem being she was replaced by a woman who often looked less then svelte herself. I wonder if Cindy ever experienced BG making personal comments about her body or telling her she didn’t act like a star?. I’m guessing no.
Any and everybody would have appeared overweight when compared to Diana’s anorexic looking frame.
I have never seen a performance of Flo where i thought she looked overweight. Slightly larger then Diana and Mary, but certainly not a woman in desperate need of shedding fat.

That's an excellent point. I had thought about that too. I never thought of Florence -or Cindy- as overweight. It does seem that nobody made an issue about Cindy's shape so I have to wonder; Cindy was generally regarded as a breath of Drama-Free air by everyone, including [[I'm assuming) Berry. Could have been that everybody was just happy that Cindy was willing to go along to get along, and was a genuinely likeable person that fans accepted that nobody even though of Cindy in terms of her weight.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I have seen this video on You Tube before. I was surprised that Mary and Florence spoke as much as they did. I guess I was used to Diana monopolizing all of the interviews. I am also surprised that we are still talking about weight in 2022. Yes, that interviewer was quite rude by today's standards and for my family would have been considered rude by his weight comments to all 3 of them. Healthwise, they were looked at for their weight plus they had tight gowns to fit into. Diana had problems keeping weight on. I know people who have that issue and are treated the same as overweight people. Mary was always well proportioned and curvy but her weight seemed to go up and own, especially after Florence was gone there was a period were Mary seemed to have lost a lot of weight. I think too much emphasis has been put on Florence's weight-she had gained some weight by that time but with Diana having trouble keeping weight on it probably accentuated any weight she had put on. Frankly, all three were lovely and beautiful. My thoughts are regarding their health-the constant dieting was certainly not good for their health. I think the interview also shows Diana being so tired and you can see she seems worried about making a mistake whereas Mary and Florence just seem to speak a little more free and natural.

[floyjoy678]

Yeah I think sometimes I view these things through the lens of today rather than remembering they're a product of the times then.

I never thought Flo looked fat. Even when she did gain some weight and her face started to look chubby, it still doesn't look fat to me. I've seen Cindy look heavier than Flo which leads me to believe it was Berry just trying to control her.

[jack020]

Diana mentions they get 100 $ a week salary? Or is only that for expenses?

[1382hitsville]

The business of show business is rich in history of obsessing about weight. Lisa Welchel from THE FACTS OF LIFE has famously talked about how the producers would send her to "fat farms" or how Joan Rivers would call them THE FATS OF LIFE. Looking at clips now, Lisa, at least to my eyes, doesn't appear fat at all. More recently, Carrie Fischer was told to lose 30 or 40 pounds for a STAR WARS film.

As mentioned, every body type is different. Flo was built differently than Diana; taller and bustier. Was the fact that Flo was too fat, or Diana was just too skinny?

Even today in the Netherlands we have a 60+ years singer and tv host when signing an extension to her contract recently there was a stipulation that she could be fired if she gained weight [[she even had a gastric bypass a few years earlier). She was furious and it was changed in "that she had to keep the same appearance during the time of the contract" [[for our Dutch members, Jaap, Jack020 and I believe there is another Dutch member, MotownMarc? I'm talking about Patty Brard).

I believe there is still a big problem with misogynistic behavior.

Do we talk about Otis Willams weight? I'm sure he must have gained some. Or Smokey Robinson? Oh, I just remembered, Wasn't Larry Braggs from one of the Temtations line up being fired for being too big, or not being able to match the Temptations image?

A famous English comedian once said, as long as you can do with your body what you want to do, be happy in the house you live in. And stay taking care of that house.

Dawn French, once 120 kilograms. Did I recalculate it correctly to 264lbs? Or in English, 18 stone.

Sure, showbizz is about looks. And a healthy weight is very beneficial for your total wellbeing. So, please take care of the house you are living in. It's all you got.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and to go back to point, all Supremes looked beautiful in their own way. And I'm happy Ms Ross is more voluptuous now. How many artists had addictions or eating disorders, as Mary Brewster mentioned. Judy Garland, Karen Carpenter. Just to name a some of the victims of misogynistic attitudes and lack of positive empowering support or counseling. Can you imagine, every thing you do is being scrutinized and afterward you hear what could be better next time. Of course there where the celebrations and congratulations, even admiration. I wonder what the balance in those days where. And at what price.

[RanRan79]

I've never seen a photo or video of Florence where she looked fat or even chubby, aside from the "Stop" Shindig performance posted a few weeks ago, and that was from early 1965. She always looked noticeably bigger than the other two, but I don't think anyone back then actually looked at her and thought anything negative. Gordy used it in his mind games with Florence. Mary makes it a point to say that Flo's weight gain was an issue, period. It could be that because the gowns were increasingly more figure hugging that a few extra pounds could cause some issues as it relates to what is prepared to be worn. I could see Mary and Diana having an issue with that. I could also see a scenario where Diana jumped on Gordy's "Flo is Fat" train because she herself was insecure about her body and had body issues.

No one should be surprised that Flo and Diana had weight issues. They were under a tremendous amount of stress, and stress is a factor in weight gain and weight loss. I think with what we know about these things today, we shouldn't retroactively criticize either lady for these issues. That being said, while Gordy was certainly a product of his time, even then he had to know that telling a woman she's fat and criticizing her for any amount of weight gain wasn't going to do that woman any good. I realize Gordy had a company to run, and the Supremes were first and foremost a commodity to him, but IMO he caused way more problems for the Supremes than would have existed had he attempted to be more understanding, but certainly less cruel, or really not cruel at all.

[benross]

Flo's weight changes were a problem almost as soon as the group became successful, and you can track this on their album cover photos:

On A Bit Of Liverpool, all three women looked very trim in their tight skirts. On At The Copa, less than a year later, notice the fit at the waist of their gowns; Diana's top is clearly sticking out several inches from her waistline, Mary's has just an inch or so to spare, and Florence's top had no extra inches whatsover; it seemed like she was wearing a tight one-piece sheath, not an overblouse and skirt. A year later, on A' Go-Go, Florence appears in hot pink pants, and their snug fit shows that her thighs and hips had swollen a bit more during the preceding twelve months.

Finally, and this was not on an album cover, look at the final photo shoot, made on or about the time of Flo's birthday in '67, with all three in hot pink dresses as they frolic on the desert near Las Vegas. Flo seemed bloated, uncomfortable and unable to improvise the various dance-like poses of the other two. In contrast, while admittedly Cindy was not as svelte as Mary and Diana, through the next several years she never looked stiff and weighed down; she had a gracefulness and ease of movement that Florence could no longer achieve, and she seemed a similar part of the trio.

[RanRan79]

So now we can judge someone's comfortability by a photo? Okay. Lol

Nobody in 1967 thought Flo was fat. She was fine as hell and a lot of women would have killed to look like her, shape and all.

[Ollie9]

So now we can judge someone's comfortability by a photo? Okay. Lol

Nobody in 1967 thought Flo was fat. She was fine as hell and a lot of women would have killed to look like her, shape and all.

Seemingly so. We now have Flo in 67 being so bloated she appeared unable to pose or move with any degree of grace or style lol. The same photos where you can clearly see Diana’s hip bone protruding out from her pink frock. Perhaps a less curve more skeletal presentation is what Flo should have been striving for.
Admittedly never the best dancer, but that’s a different kettle of fish entirely.

[sup_fan]

Flo's weight changes were a problem almost as soon as the group became successful, and you can track this on their album cover photos:

On A Bit Of Liverpool, all three women looked very trim in their tight skirts. On At The Copa, less than a year later, notice the fit at the waist of their gowns; Diana's top is clearly sticking out several inches from her waistline, Mary's has just an inch or so to spare, and Florence's top had no extra inches whatsover; it seemed like she was wearing a tight one-piece sheath, not an overblouse and skirt. A year later, on A' Go-Go, Florence appears in hot pink pants, and their snug fit shows that her thighs and hips had swollen a bit more during the preceding twelve months.

Finally, and this was not on an album cover, look at the final photo shoot, made on or about the time of Flo's birthday in '67, with all three in hot pink dresses as they frolic on the desert near Las Vegas. Flo seemed bloated, uncomfortable and unable to improvise the various dance-like poses of the other two. In contrast, while admittedly Cindy was not as svelte as Mary and Diana, through the next several years she never looked stiff and weighed down; she had a gracefulness and ease of movement that Florence could no longer achieve, and she seemed a similar part of the trio.

agreed. or look at flo on the picture sleeve for WDOLG. very trim, even if she is just naturally a larger size and build than diana. then look at her in the pink chiffon gowns worn towards the very end onstage. those pics of DMF in LA at the Grove in June 67.

[RanRan79]

Seemingly so. We now have Flo in 67 being so bloated she appeared unable to pose or move with any degree of grace or style lol. The same photos where you can clearly see Diana’s hip bone protruding out from her pink frock. Perhaps a less curve more skeletal presentation is what Flo should have been striving for.
Admittedly never the best dancer, but that’s a different kettle of fish entirely.

The protruding hipbone look set Diana apart from the competition, Ollie. If Flo were ambitious, she would have starved herself in order to achieve that look and therefore might have gotten more spotlight time as time went on.

No, Flo wasn't the best dancer, but that's no surprise if she's eating the whole kettle of fish you mentioned.

[RanRan79]

It's amazing that this lady's weight is being dissected so many years later. She looks great. Even Diana seemed to shrink as the years went by. She doesn't look nearly as thin in the early 60s thru early 1965 as she does as the years went by. Women often undergo weight gains and losses, especially under stress, and these women were under a tremendous amount of stress. Mary also went up and down, although perhaps not as noticeable as when it happened to the other two. It's life.

[sup_fan]

It's amazing that this lady's weight is being dissected so many years later. She looks great. Even Diana seemed to shrink as the years went by. She doesn't look nearly as thin in the early 60s thru early 1965 as she does as the years went by. Women often undergo weight gains and losses, especially under stress, and these women were under a tremendous amount of stress. Mary also went up and down, although perhaps not as noticeable as when it happened to the other two. It's life.

true - it's only natural that bodies change. but what we're really talking about is Flo's lack of holding up her part of the group and focusing on her contribution. we're not talking about 15 years of body changes. this is really over a period of maybe a year or so. The image of the group was nearly as important as their sound. the group had a look that the members were to subscribe to and each was to maintain her part. Flo's weight gain [[or more importantly her lack of willingness to reduce it) was part of the overall struggle. the drinking, the poor attitude, her missing shows and all

so it isn't about just her eating too many hamburgers and getting a little thick. and that's also why when mary or cindy or jean or any of the others had weight fluctuations, it wasn't as big of a deal. Flo was dealing with and presenting a mountain of problems, the weight gain was just the more outward facing symptom of all of these. and it's one that people have focused on because it adds to the sensationalism of the whole group breakdown.

just like an airplane crash, the group breakup was the culmination of a bunch of things.

[Ollie9]

The protruding hipbone look set Diana apart from the competition, Ollie. If Flo were ambitious, she would have starved herself in order to achieve that look and therefore might have gotten more spotlight time as time went on.

No, Flo wasn't the best dancer, but that's no surprise if she's eating the whole kettle of fish you mentioned.

If fish were all Flo had eaten, a career in dance did surely beckon.
It’s a bit of a sensitive subject for me as i once knew someone who died of anorexia, brought on by poor body image.
I’m incredulous that with the photographic evidence we have, some fans are still intent on labelling Flo as being overweight if not outright fat.
She was not delicately boned like Diana and Mary, so as she matured was always going to look a ‘tad larger. Those cruel taunts she was forced to endure must have had a huge impact on her emotional and psychological health.
It appears attitudes have not changed as much as one would like to think.

[RanRan79]

true - it's only natural that bodies change. but what we're really talking about is Flo's lack of holding up her part of the group and focusing on her contribution. we're not talking about 15 years of body changes. this is really over a period of maybe a year or so. The image of the group was nearly as important as their sound. the group had a look that the members were to subscribe to and each was to maintain her part. Flo's weight gain [[or more importantly her lack of willingness to reduce it) was part of the overall struggle. the drinking, the poor attitude, her missing shows and all

so it isn't about just her eating too many hamburgers and getting a little thick. and that's also why when mary or cindy or jean or any of the others had weight fluctuations, it wasn't as big of a deal. Flo was dealing with and presenting a mountain of problems, the weight gain was just the more outward facing symptom of all of these. and it's one that people have focused on because it adds to the sensationalism of the whole group breakdown.

just like an airplane crash, the group breakup was the culmination of a bunch of things.

But we also know that Florence was on diet pills, like many women during that time, so she was trying to do what she could to prevent weight gain. We also know that those diet pills at the time were "uppers" and the side effects made a lot of women prone to mood swings. [[My grandmother was on them during this same time period. She had no reason to be except in her own mind, which was common of a lot of women at the time. Grandma said she had to stop taking those pills because they drove her crazy. Lol) I'd say Flo was trying to uphold her end of the bargain and still getting slammed for it. And again, she was getting flack for getting bigger but Diana wasn't [[and doesn't) get flack for getting thinner when, as Dan points out, Diana's look was not the "in" look, Flo's look was. Thank God for Twiggy, or Diana's increased thinness could have been the image problem. Weight gain doesn't mean "fat" either. Flo was never fat. She was always a well built, beautiful woman. Even in the 70s when she was supposedly bigger than ever, she never looks fat. She always looks good.

I'd be surprised if there was a single Supremes fan or person in attendance at a Supremes show who looked at Florence and thought "She's getting bigger". This seems more so a retroactive thing for fans to discuss, which means Flo's weight wasn't affecting the group image at all.

[floyjoy678]

Yeah I really believe the "fat" thing was just another one of Berry's mind games and Diana went along with it because she was under his influence unfortunately. I'm sure most of you can tell I'm not a Gordy fan lol. If there's anyone to blame for the breakup of the original Supremes, it's him.

[sup_fan]

But we also know that Florence was on diet pills, like many women during that time, so she was trying to do what she could to prevent weight gain. We also know that those diet pills at the time were "uppers" and the side effects made a lot of women prone to mood swings. [[My grandmother was on them during this same time period. She had no reason to be except in her own mind, which was common of a lot of women at the time. Grandma said she had to stop taking those pills because they drove her crazy. Lol) I'd say Flo was trying to uphold her end of the bargain and still getting slammed for it. And again, she was getting flack for getting bigger but Diana wasn't [[and doesn't) get flack for getting thinner when, as Dan points out, Diana's look was not the "in" look, Flo's look was. Thank God for Twiggy, or Diana's increased thinness could have been the image problem. Weight gain doesn't mean "fat" either. Flo was never fat. She was always a well built, beautiful woman. Even in the 70s when she was supposedly bigger than ever, she never looks fat. She always looks good.

I'd be surprised if there was a single Supremes fan or person in attendance at a Supremes show who looked at Florence and thought "She's getting bigger". This seems more so a retroactive thing for fans to discuss, which means Flo's weight wasn't affecting the group image at all.

yes we've read about her making some attempts. Randy talks about it during the spring 67 period. and our fav Tony Turner talks about smuggling pills and booze into hotel room lolol SMH

of course i've not read any of the prescription orders so don't know when she was taking them, what pills, etc. It could have been too little too late. if Randy's timeline is right, i believe he had her taking them after the Hollywood Bowl event. at that point, it's doubtful if anything she did would have rectified the situation. she's already missed to live shows forcing M and D to do a duet. that alone without any other problems or issues could have caused her dismissal.

As for Diana being bone thin and to the point of collapsing, again it's the culmination of events leading up to that. D had worked herself, literally, almost to death. She mentions that Berry was very concerned about her health and weight and that he would instruct the road managers to actually stand there and watch/make her eat. But she had also never allowed anything to get in the way of her work. that is until her body finally quit on her and she had her collapse on stage.

Flo had had a long history of being sick, being in a bad mood, uncooperative, etc. it was sort of a "never cry wolf" situation. she'd been so problematic and been "sick" so much that no one really believed it. and with the alcohol and drinking it made people wonder is she sick or hung over? too many people at this point felt "hey everyone here is busting their ass and pushing 150% and yet she can't even do X?" as we've discussed there was significant emotional problems and baggage from the rape as a youth. certainly possible many or most didn't even know of the incident. and unfortunately mental health care wasn't an option as it is today.

[floyjoy678]

The group didn't have the best diet and you can't blame them especially with how much they were working. I remember reading a story on here of a fan spotting Diana and Flo getting hot dogs to eat early in the morning.

Look at John Lennon, he put on weight for a while there too when the Beatles blew up.

[Ollie9]

In Peter Benjaminson book, Flo recounts how the digs and personal insults started long before she ever started missing performances due to ill health. The result of such passive aggressive behaviour is often.accumulative which appears to have been the case with Flo.
Considering the constant put downs she had to endure from BG, and the groups crazy work schedule, it’s amazing that other then that final performance, Florence managed to remain nothing but Supreme while performing on stage.

[sup_fan]

In Peter Benjaminson book, Flo recounts how the digs and personal insults started long before she ever started missing performances due to ill health. The result of such passive aggressive behaviour is often.accumulative which appears to have been the case with Flo.
Considering the constant put downs she had to endure from BG, and the groups crazy work schedule, it’s amazing that other then that final performance, Florence managed to remain nothing but Supreme while performing on stage.

yes Mary does acknowledge that Flo was able to maintain the façade on stage. but others have quoted that other she was just going through the motions on stage. there are some quotes in one of Randy's early books [[i think from Taylor Cox) that Diana would be very frustrated that Flo often didn't convey the same degree of emotion during the songs, that she would sometimes just being going through the motions on a song like Somewhere while Diana was nearly convulsing in tears and emotion.

also being a supreme was much more that the 55 mins on stage. they were all under massive pressure - endless rehearsals, photo shoots, interviews, travel, recording sessions, appearances, etc. Mary, Diana and Berry have all stated that it took just about everything they had to keep going and that Flo's ups and downs and mood swings just added a huge additional burden. the other three were trying to get everything done, handle all of this stress themselves and then help Flo along because they could see her crumbling. after a while it is only natural to say "hey i can't carry you any more - we're all stresses and the rest of us are coping. so get your shit together."

they've all pretty much also acknowledged that in 1966 they didn't really understand or know what to do with alcoholism or mental health. and we've all heard that Berry wasn't always tactful and could be very very harsh and blunt with criticisms. I'm sure if they could go back and do some thing different, they would. all of us would. but at the time they're trying to make do with what they have, what they know, etc.

[floyjoy678]

yes Mary does acknowledge that Flo was able to maintain the façade on stage. but others have quoted that other she was just going through the motions on stage. there are some quotes in one of Randy's early books [[i think from Taylor Cox) that Diana would be very frustrated that Flo often didn't convey the same degree of emotion during the songs, that she would sometimes just being going through the motions on a song like Somewhere while Diana was nearly convulsing in tears and emotion.

also being a supreme was much more that the 55 mins on stage. they were all under massive pressure - endless rehearsals, photo shoots, interviews, travel, recording sessions, appearances, etc. Mary, Diana and Berry have all stated that it took just about everything they had to keep going and that Flo's ups and downs and mood swings just added a huge additional burden. the other three were trying to get everything done, handle all of this stress themselves and then help Flo along because they could see her crumbling. after a while it is only natural to say "hey i can't carry you any more - we're all stresses and the rest of us are coping. so get your shit together."

they've all pretty much also acknowledged that in 1966 they didn't really understand or know what to do with alcoholism or mental health. and we've all heard that Berry wasn't always tactful and could be very very harsh and blunt with criticisms. I'm sure if they could go back and do some thing different, they would. all of us would. but at the time they're trying to make do with what they have, what they know, etc.

There was change with Flo in her stage presence that I noticed in late '65. She's still very animated and has charisma when they do Nothing But Heartaches on Hullabaloo. Then just a few months later when they're doing I Hear A Symphony on Larry Kane it looks like she could care less about being there. Maybe not being on the Xmas album pissed her off.

[Ollie9]

yes Mary does acknowledge that Flo was able to maintain the façade on stage. but others have quoted that other she was just going through the motions on stage. there are some quotes in one of Randy's early books [[i think from Taylor Cox) that Diana would be very frustrated that Flo often didn't convey the same degree of emotion during the songs, that she would sometimes just being going through the motions on a song like Somewhere while Diana was nearly convulsing in tears and emotion.

also being a supreme was much more that the 55 mins on stage. they were all under massive pressure - endless rehearsals, photo shoots, interviews, travel, recording sessions, appearances, etc. Mary, Diana and Berry have all stated that it took just about everything they had to keep going and that Flo's ups and downs and mood swings just added a huge additional burden. the other three were trying to get everything done, handle all of this stress themselves and then help Flo along because they could see her crumbling. after a while it is only natural to say "hey i can't carry you any more - we're all stresses and the rest of us are coping. so get your shit together."

they've all pretty much also acknowledged that in 1966 they didn't really understand or know what to do with alcoholism or mental health. and we've all heard that Berry wasn't always tactful and could be very very harsh and blunt with criticisms. I'm sure if they could go back and do some thing different, they would. all of us would. but at the time they're trying to make do with what they have, what they know, etc.

The main problem being it was Gordy himself who was adding to any mental health problems Flo may have been experiencing while contributing to physical health concerns. I mean she literally hated the man which is something she never said of Diana.
I have no recollection of ever reading of Flo’s lack of emotion while performing. Being a backing vocalist as opposed to lead singer, she would have been limited as to just how much emotion she could pour into a performance, even with Diana emoting all over the place.

[sup_fan]

it's from Randy's Motown - hot wax, city cool, solid gold book in the early 80s. it's a quote from Joe Schaffner who was the girls' road manager. it's a rather extended quote and story from him, and he was on the road day in, day out with the girls so would have been there.

[Ollie9]

it's from Randy's Motown - hot wax, city cool, solid gold book in the early 80s. it's a quote from Joe Schaffner who was the girls' road manager. it's a rather extended quote and story from him, and he was on the road day in, day out with the girls so would have been there.

Flo always disliked performing those show tunes so perhaps that had something to do with it. I can’t say i blame her.