Diana Ross and Supremes set lists--how many songs should be familair to audiences?

[Spreadinglove21]

Over the years in reading threads about the live set lists for the Supremes as well as Ross solo, as well as Mary solo, and the Flos, there has been discussion about the set lists and how many songs that were recorded that were rarely if ever performed live and instead standards or covers were performed instead. From the Copa/supper club/Vegas shows of the 60s when they would do standards and show tunes, to recent years with Ross performing I will Survive [[though she did record a cover) at the expense of songs more closely associated with her or new songs from a recent album.

I'm sure one of the reasonings behind creating such a set list is that the performer should perform songs that the public already knows, rather than new material. Of course if a new album is out, some of the set list has to be handed over to new material, especially the hoped for hit, to promote the album and/or single. And that seems to be the case throughout the history of the Supremes and the solo careers.

However there are artists who don't like to lean on the hits and covers, and instead will largely perform new songs and only do a couple of old songs. Madonna is a quintessential example of such an act. When she goes on tour with a show, she largely does it in conjunction with her latest album and most of the set list is devoted to performing songs from the new album with a few classic hits thrown in, often times re-arranged or re-mixed. This does not please a number of her fans, especially the more casual fans who want to hear the hits, not the deep cut from the new album that's in Portugese.

Does anyone else think that The supremes and later Diana Ross solo, or even Mary Wilson solo, should have adjusted their set lists to include less covers of popular songs, or less hits, and instead performed album cuts, either from their current album of the time, or go through their back catalog to perform a few songs they worked hard in the studio on but never attempted live?

IN other words, to what degree should a set list be crafted to please a causal fan, who may prefer to hear only familiar songs, or to please a die hard fan, who wants to hear a batch of deep cuts and B sides, or to please the artist, who may have their own ideas of what constitutes an artistically fulfilling show [[whatever that may be)?

[Thornton]

What I mostly don't like about The Supremes' live act post-1966 is the way they rush through the hits, which got even worse in the 70's. It would have been nice to hear three or or four songs from the 60's in their entirety, then focus on new/post-Ross material.

I also think it was a missed opportunity to not do a reasonably-paced medley of Smokey Robinson, Jimmy Webb, and Stevie Wonder songs to coincide with album/single releases.

On the whole, I've enjoyed live acts by Diana, Mary, and FLOS. It seems like FLOS is open to experimenting with lesser known songs like Lovelight and He's My Man too.

[captainjames]

In all reality and as much as a fan I wanted other songs to make it into their song list they really played it right for everyone.

[Ollie9]

Two live performances that immediately spring to mind are “I Thought That We Were Still In Love” in 95 and Reach Out I’ll Be There” from 2000. Both performances remain career highlights that went down a storm with the audience.
I'm not certain the bulk of her concert audience today would really appreciate hearing such songs as we the life long fans. They want the the familiar.
I certainly wish she could have mixed it up a little more over the years then she did. The “BIM” tracks being a particular fave.

[thommg]

I think that I Thought That We Were Still In Love is an amazing song, and her performance is exceptional. I wish I had heard Diana do that one live.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I think Diana got it most right in her 1979 Caesar's Palace setlist. Four [[?) songs from The Boss, a Stevie song sung beautifully, just one show tune [[hooray!) and the rest from her back catalogue.

[bradsupremes]

The Hollywood Bowl show was crafted specifically for that KHJ Appreciation Concert. That particular concert was geared toward teens and young adults. The ladies did just about every one of their hits in full with the exception of "Where Did Our Love Go," "Nothing But Heartaches," and "Love Is Like An Itchin' In My Heart." The other songs they did were either hits by other current artists or at least familiar to the young crowd.

What I never understood was why Motown didn't have the ladies do this show in their tours of colleges and big city concerts like the Forum in LA, Fisher Theatre in Detroit or Boston Garden. Instead they did the nightclub style show.

[nomis]

Diana was known in the 80s to sometimes tell the audience " if there's anything you want to hear shout it out and we might do it " I thought that was classy stage patter

[1382hitsville]

Yes Nomis, Ms Ross did that even in the early nineties. And then asking the band if they had the sheetmusic.

[Jaap]

I think Diana got it most right in her 1979 Caesar's Palace setlist. Four [[?) songs from The Boss, a Stevie song sung beautifully, just one show tune [[hooray!) and the rest from her back catalogue.

Actually 5 of The Boss: No One Gets the Prize, I Ain't Been Licked {which she briefly put back on her set list in 2004}, It's My House, The Boss, and All for One.

[sup_fan]

the group and motown stayed focused too long on continuing this "copa-style" approach to live shows. the girls were saddled down with MOR content, medleys and material that wasn't of their own. the strategy was perfect for 1965. But by the late 60s motown should have been pivoting on it.

young adults, college kids and older teens were coming into their own as a demographic with money to spend. they were going to concerts more, buying albums, etc. Back in the early 60s, kids of this age didn't have the discretionary cash to the same degree. there's a huge amount of documentation on how some brands [[like Pepsi) started to really pivot to the Youth Generation and shift advertising budgets to them.

The supremes were more than established enough to have successfully played to both audiences - they could continue to do supper club content and Vegas gigs. But then as they expanded to do more concerts for youth, they should have revamped the show. More of their own hits, more of their album content.

[Ollie9]

By the late 60’s, Gordy was all about presenting his protege to the world as the classic all round entertainer. His black Streisand who could do it all. The Supremes were mostly just used as pretty background decoration. That’s not to say the group weren't supported once Diana left, but by then those show tunes had served their purpose.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Diana was known in the 80s to sometimes tell the audience " if there's anything you want to hear shout it out and we might do it " I thought that was classy stage patter

Doubt she ever did it unless it was already in the set. I often thought she was hoping someone would shout out the name of whatever was coming up next.

I remember someone at Caesar's shouted out 'Pigfoot' and she laughingly turned to the band and then said 'Barney [[?) don't remember that one'.

She would possibly have had some problems with the lyrics herself.

[sansradio]

^ I thought of this moment reading this thread. The pianist’s name was Marty.

[sup_fan]

Doubt she ever did it unless it was already in the set. I often thought she was hoping someone would shout out the name of whatever was coming up next.

I remember someone at Caesar's shouted out 'Pigfoot' and she laughingly turned to the band and then said 'Barney [[?) don't remember that one'.

She would possibly have had some problems with the lyrics herself.

i agree - i think it was done to drive audience involvement, even though they already knew what would be the next song. or perhaps they would have a couple of options at the ready so there would appear to be some degree of spontaneity

[florence]

The thing is we each want something different from Diana and you're talking audiences in the thousands.

In the UK the majority of the audience was always there to hear the big hits.

The US of course doesn't understand it but whenever she did it the reaction here to I'm Still Waiting was beyond incredible.

I know this will be sacrilege to many but I never cared for the Lady Sings The Blues segment she regularly included in her concert set - just don't like most of the songs.

[TheMotownManiac]

Two live performances that immediately spring to mind are “I Thought That We Were Still In Love” in 95 and Reach Out I’ll Be There” from 2000. Both performances remain career highlights that went down a storm with the audience.
I'm not certain the bulk of her concert audience today would really appreciate hearing such songs as we the life long fans. They want the the familiar.
I certainly wish she could have mixed it up a little more over the years then she did. The “BIM” tracks being a particular fave.

I thought that we were still in love, every time I saw it, got an amazing, often standing ovation. But she stated on more than one occasion she did not like to sing it and I remember her sitting there on the stage taking a minute trying to get into the headspace she needed to sing it. It was an interesting ritual As she tried to explain to the audience which she was doing while trying to be quiet and not speak so she could achieve what she wanted to achieve while not boring the audience while she just sat there, I loved it.

[TheMotownManiac]

Great topic!

1) when I first saw The Supremes in 1966, I don’t remember having a problem with the Setlist except they did not do back in my arms again or nothing but heartaches.

2) I think it was a big mistake to include all the showtunes on one nighters and college dates. I would’ve kept ‘free at last somewhere” in there, Sam Cooke And a more rollicking Queen of the house or some other fun song that maybe wasn’t so cornball. I would have added going down for the third time, money, and extended rocking you keep me hanging on, and extended rocking reflections. A different showcase for Mary and Florence other than people, perhaps a solo for Mary, and adding good news to Sam Cooke. I would’ve had them do a few more hip Motown covers like uptight and I’m Losing You. I would not have done big spender in a basketball arena in 1969 in St. Louis. Or Millie rose meme.

3) In hindsight, the JMC/JML set lists were an atrocity, although at the time, as a fully indoctrinated Supremes fan I was inoculated for all the showtunes. Yeah the terrible arrangements for the 70s hits, disregard for the 70s hits with more care and attention being spent on Exodus and somewhere and we’ve only just begun in front of audiences who came to rock out to Stoned love, was a giant nail in the coffin. The problem with the arrangements, and this includes the prior group as well, the more rock orientated hits were arranged faster instead of heavier which was a big mistake. By the time Jean lefted it was over for the group basically so it didn’t matter anymore what the show was like because they didn’t have a clue what they were doing. They were chasing an audience that wasn’t there and ignoring the audience that was.

4) I think ross’ solo show set lists were great until after 2004. The only songs that I think should always be in the act or ain’t no Mountain high enough and mahogany. I would rotate everything else showcasing her incredible catalog, and do a real stolen moments set for 15 or 20 minutes.

5) for the most part I think Mary had great set lists. Some people complain about the lack of 70s hits, but as people know who were at the shows when she did them, a lot of people did not know or enjoy them that much. Mary had a lot of people become interested after her book tours, and I don’t think they remembered Floy joy or cared too. That doesn’t mean she couldn’t have done them, to keep the fans happy, but for the great unwashed, it was not her forte. Her strength is in ballads, and I never saw one flop. Mary read her audience very very well.

5)The Flo’s, as a tribute act, should keep it to the hits and now they are throwing in a few Dawn hits which I guess is fine. I think a lot of the other songs they are throwing in are not appreciated, and of course, the horrendous over singing and the Supremes Classics does not help them.

[Ollie9]

I thought that we were still in love, every time I saw it, got an amazing, often standing ovation. But she stated on more than one occasion she did not like to sing it and I remember her sitting there on the stage taking a minute trying to get into the headspace she needed to sing it. It was an interesting ritual As she tried to explain to the audience which she was doing while trying to be quiet and not speak so she could achieve what she wanted to achieve while not boring the audience while she just sat there, I loved it.

I wonder why she chose to perform the song if it were so very difficult for her?. I enjoy the moment in any concert, where the artist gets down and serious to really connect with the song they are singing. I would love a few more of those “Don’t Explain” moments that appear less and less with the passing of the years.

[sup_fan]

Great topic!

1) when I first saw The Supremes in 1966, I don’t remember having a problem with the Setlist except they did not do back in my arms again or nothing but heartaches.

2) I think it was a big mistake to include all the showtunes on one nighters and college dates. I would’ve kept ‘free at last somewhere” in there, Sam Cooke And a more rollicking Queen of the house or some other fun song that maybe wasn’t so cornball. I would have added going down for the third time, money, and extended rocking you keep me hanging on, and extended rocking reflections. A different showcase for Mary and Florence other than people, perhaps a solo for Mary, and adding good news to Sam Cooke. I would’ve had them do a few more hip Motown covers like uptight and I’m Losing You. I would not have done big spender in a basketball arena in 1969 in St. Louis. Or Millie rose meme.

3) In hindsight, the JMC/JML set lists were an atrocity, although at the time, as a fully indoctrinated Supremes fan I was inoculated for all the showtunes. Yeah the terrible arrangements for the 70s hits, disregard for the 70s hits with more care and attention being spent on Exodus and somewhere and we’ve only just begun in front of audiences who came to rock out to Stoned love, was a giant nail in the coffin. The problem with the arrangements, and this includes the prior group as well, the more rock orientated hits were arranged faster instead of heavier which was a big mistake. By the time Jean lefted it was over for the group basically so it didn’t matter anymore what the show was like because they didn’t have a clue what they were doing. They were chasing an audience that wasn’t there and ignoring the audience that was.

4) I think ross’ solo show set lists were great until after 2004. The only songs that I think should always be in the act or ain’t no Mountain high enough and mahogany. I would rotate everything else showcasing her incredible catalog, and do a real stolen moments set for 15 or 20 minutes.

5) for the most part I think Mary had great set lists. Some people complain about the lack of 70s hits, but as people know who were at the shows when she did them, a lot of people did not know or enjoy them that much. Mary had a lot of people become interested after her book tours, and I don’t think they remembered Floy joy or cared too. That doesn’t mean she couldn’t have done them, to keep the fans happy, but for the great unwashed, it was not her forte. Her strength is in ballads, and I never saw one flop. Mary read her audience very very well.

5)The Flo’s, as a tribute act, should keep it to the hits and now they are throwing in a few Dawn hits which I guess is fine. I think a lot of the other songs they are throwing in are not appreciated, and of course, the horrendous over singing and the Supremes Classics does not help them.

agree Maniac! Motown initially struck gold with the "copa-style" show with the girls. But in hindsight, we can see that type of entertainment was on the decline. That population was aging out and the massive baby boomer population was becoming teens and young adults. that was a seismic shift in US pop culture. the Temps, Stevie and Marvin sort of were able to adapt to this. But the Sups were never really allowed or else weren't given the chance to

Part of this is because by 65 and 66, it was clear that the group was a staging platform for the eventual launch of DR as a solo. her brand concept really was to be the black Steisand which would mean that heavy focus on Broadway, movies and other MOR entertainment. Ironically, Barbra would make some headway into the youth market in the 70s with more pop-oriented material, some of her movies, etc. But eventually Babs would revert back to her tried and true

by the time DR left in 70, the image of the Supremes was so indelibly burned into people's minds that there probably was never going to be an opportunity for the group to evolve or do different things. they were type-casted, like an actor that makes it huge in 1 type of role and is never able to break free. DR was able to still evolve her image [[like with Lady) but the time and money was never invested in the Sups to do so. and a group is harder to change than a single star.

[dickiemint]

To the casual concert goer it's the hits that people want to hear, I personally don't like the show tunes or the rapid medley of hits that made the group but seemed thrown away, I have been fortunate over the years since I first seen Diana Ross in 1982, to also see Mary Wilson [[ as Supremes with the 2 Karrens ) and solo and various versions of the Flos,
And apart from one really poor performance from miss Ross Birmingham early 2000s I've always enjoyed the shows, I saw the Flos Jean, Lynda & Sherrie and they were really on top form, to hear Jean Terrell sing Up the Ladder and Stoned Love in its entirety Live is a Great memory, hearing Diana sing Remember Me live is another highlight for me, and watching Mary Wilson sing Floy Joy with Martha Reeves , my personal least favourite is I will Survive !! When that starts I get ready to leave !!

[Ollie9]

My personal least favourite is I will Survive !! When that starts I get ready to leave !!

I’m organised and ready to flee at the first hint lol. Im hoping the song has finally been laid to rest, but one can never be quite sure.
“Tomorrow” would make for an energetic replacement, being significantly an actual Diana Ross song.