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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    You really must learn to improve your insults.
    Your remark wasn't addressed to me, but I, for one, am proud of every arthritic bone in my body.
    What on earth do they teach you in school in Canada?
    Canada? Cannot be! Um, should not be.

  2. #52
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    There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh thatís such a horrible song I canít stand it itís Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you donít think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[🩹 it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by after you View Post
    There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh thatís such a horrible song I canít stand it itís Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you donít think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[啕 it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it
    Actually, all anyone is doing is sharing their opinion of a 1981 single by Diana Ross.

    Given that most people in the world didn't buy it, there will be some who like it, some who don't like it, and billions who have probably never heard it.

    Also, some people will think that releasing it was a good move, and others will think that it wasn't a good move.

    How people express their views will vary from person to person, but all they are doing is expressing their views about a 1981 single, since that is what this thread is about.

  4. #54
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    Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.

    I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.

    I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.

    Diana's WDFFIL reached #7 pop US.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by after you View Post
    There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh that’s such a horrible song I can’t stand it it’s Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you don’t think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[�� it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it
    I've said this before and will no doubt have to say it again, but this is a forum, not an appreciation society.
    The dictionary defines a forum as a ..."place for public discussion...giving opportunity for debate". Consequently different points of view should be encouraged. This could cause problems for very young members who have formed their opinions through social media, as they tend to gravitate to groups with similar world-views and therefore may not be able to grasp the concept of dissent.
    However forums have existed for several thousand years as a conduit for reasoned arguments, so no one is going to hold back on firmly held views just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone with an opposing view.
    On the whole, members get on reasonably well with each other as long as they concentrate on the arguments themselves and do not let things become personal.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.

    I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.

    I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
    My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
    Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
    Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
    My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
    Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
    Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.
    Any idea how much more time was needed to wait for Quincy? Sounds like RCA was a bit short-sighted by wanting a quick ROI in lieu of a super quality project. I guess enuf said - Will try to catch up tonight.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I've said this before and will no doubt have to say it again, but this is a forum, not an appreciation society.
    The dictionary defines a forum as a ..."place for public discussion...giving opportunity for debate". Consequently different points of view should be encouraged. This could cause problems for very young members who have formed their opinions through social media, as they tend to gravitate to groups with similar world-views and therefore may not be able to grasp the concept of dissent.
    However forums have existed for several thousand years as a conduit for reasoned arguments, so no one is going to hold back on firmly held views just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone with an opposing view.
    On the whole, members get on reasonably well with each other as long as they concentrate on the arguments themselves and do not let things become personal.
    Eloquently stated.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Cash Box, which tallied it's positions based on sales, ranked "Fools" at #7, "Shame" at #8 and "In and Out" at #10. Additionally, for "Fools" to have been some big seller in the US, I can find no gold or platinum certification. The album went platinum but it appears the single failed to hit gold status. Of course, as has happened in the Diana Ross discography a few times, the song may have sold exceptionally well in other parts of the world. I don't know exactly how songs ride on the coattails of the ones before it, so I'm not arguing that point. I just don't see much evidence that supports the claim that people ran out and bought "Fools" in some dramatic fashion, compared to some others. I would also offer that "Fools" isn't any more present in the conscious of the general public​ than either "Shame" or "In and Out".
    highest chart position is certainly a strong barometer of level of success, but it is Often not the whole story.

    in and out of love rocketed into the top ten on the coattails of Reflections. It got its Reflections boost, couldn’t sustain, and died a quickie.

    In And Out *65, *47, *29, *13, *9, 9, 12, 21 8 weeks

    Ditto

    Shame. *47, *22, *15, 11, 10, 12, 21, 29 8 weeks

    * Bullet

    A month or so is all that’s needed to see if a record is strong on its own merits. in the 60’s, Herman’s Hermits and Gary Lewis both usually shot up fast and died quickly. For our purposes:

    ‘Fools launches on the strength of her recent mammoth success, but the public responded and sustained it into a very successful record with legs.
    Fools is white hot longer than the total chart life of the others.
    Fools total chart life is 150% longer
    Fools’ fade is very indicative of a strong record. Even its fade is longer than the chart life of the other two.

    Fools. @56, @38, @28, @21, @14, @12, @10, @9, @8, @7, 7, 7, 15, 25, 27, 42, 79, 75, 96, 99 20 weeks

    @White Hot Bullet [[strongest surge)
    * Bullet
    Last edited by TheMotownManiac; 07-14-2021 at 09:19 PM.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
    My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
    Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
    Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.
    Bluebrock, thank you so much for restating what happened. RCA bungled it from the get go and is largely responsible for the loss on their investment. Did they even recommend another producer to helm her label debut? They were thinking short term and screwed themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing.
    If only Miss Ross had said 'I insist on waiting for Quincy, but in the meantime, how about I cut a single of WDFFIL for release.'

    I would be much more appreciative of the single if there was a reason like this behind it.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Any idea how much more time was needed to wait for Quincy? Sounds like RCA was a bit short-sighted by wanting a quick ROI in lieu of a super quality project. I guess enuf said - Will try to catch up tonight.
    I was told between 3-4 months which back then was a long time when you consider how regularly artists released new albums back then.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi Stubbs Tears View Post
    If only Miss Ross had said 'I insist on waiting for Quincy, but in the meantime, how about I cut a single of WDFFIL for release.'

    I would be much more appreciative of the single if there was a reason like this behind it.
    Can i be your producer? Together we could make such sweet music. Lol......

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepdishus2001 View Post
    Bluebrock, thank you so much for restating what happened. RCA bungled it from the get go and is largely responsible for the loss on their investment. Did they even recommend another producer to helm her label debut? They were thinking short term and screwed themselves.
    I suspect they did put forward their own ideas for a suitable producer, but i honestly do not know who they had in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Can i be your producer? Together we could make such sweet music. Lol......
    lol - we do seem to agree quite a bit. Great minds and all that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I suspect they did put forward their own ideas for a suitable producer, but i honestly do not know who they had in mind.
    In your own personal opinion Mr B, would you say she received support and guidance from the record company but refused to listen, or was she pretty much left to her own devices?. I’m guessing the former, but would be interested to know your thoughts.

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    I think WDFFIL was a great choice for a single. It was nice to have something that, along with the video, presented a fun and upbeat side to Diana Ross to herald a new start on RCA.

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    Of all the great oldies to re-record, she chose Why Do Fools Fall In Love and Sweet Nothings ??????
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 07-15-2021 at 09:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    In your own personal opinion Mr B, would you say she received support and guidance from the record company but refused to listen, or was she pretty much left to her own devices?. I’m guessing the former, but would be interested to know your thoughts.
    I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
    Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.

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    RCA had a $15 million dollar investment on their hands who was delusional. I can only imagine how many nights sleep were lost and executive careers ruined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
    Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.
    Many thanks. I had assumed this was the case, but it’s always good to hear an informed opinion.

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    I guess RCA wanted to get Diana Ross product out there given the amount of money they spent to sign her, and due to her recent string of big hits. Strike while the iron is hot. But one can argue that she wasn't a newly minted star where there is a true need to get a new song and album to maintain the momentum of a new star. Diana Ross was established. Would the public have forgotten her if more time had been taken to produce her RCA debut? I don't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21 View Post
    I guess RCA wanted to get Diana Ross product out there given the amount of money they spent to sign her, and due to her recent string of big hits. Strike while the iron is hot. But one can argue that she wasn't a newly minted star where there is a true need to get a new song and album to maintain the momentum of a new star. Diana Ross was established. Would the public have forgotten her if more time had been taken to produce her RCA debut? I don't think so.

    I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. Heís the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and thatís why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didnít specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldnít wait for the contract to end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.
    I really enjoy reading such recollections. It provides extra insight into what is surely a very complex character. I’m sure she must have been a complete nightmare to work during that period, but It certainly doesn't stop me being any less of a fan.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.
    Such a shame RCA did not released the Central Park live album. I'm sure with some editing it could have been turned into a solid album [[probably better than the Greatest Hits Live). At least we now have it on DVD!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I really enjoy reading such recollections. It provides extra insight into what is surely a very complex character. I’m sure she must have been a complete nightmare to work during that period, but It certainly doesn't stop me being any less of a fan.
    that’s one of the wonderful things about this group, everybody has their a little bit of some thing to add, or to comment, or to suggest. When I think of Marv, I think of all the wonderful clips he provided that I never would’ve heard of, I know I had more than a share of run-ins with him, but I don’t think about that anymore I’m so glad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaap View Post
    Such a shame RCA did not released the Central Park live album. I'm sure with some editing it could have been turned into a solid album [[probably better than the Greatest Hits Live). At least we now have it on DVD!
    oh i think it's a mess. 30 years later its fine enough but no way would it have been a quality album. Day 1 is fine enough but you have the whole mess of the weather. without the visual of her on stage in the rain and wind, the sound isn't great. Day 2 her voice isn't as strong. a little raspy now and then.

    now if they were releasing VHS tapes of videos back at this time, perhaps that would have been a better outlet. then you have the wildly dramatic visual of the storm and Day 1. then pick a few pieces of Day 2 and have that almost as "Act II" in the video. but this concert doesn't have the audio quality of her Evening With back in 77.

    she certainly could have released the 79 HBO special on audio. her vocals there are masterful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.
    oh i would have offered to take him to dinner to extend the conversation!!! fascinating!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh i think it's a mess. 30 years later its fine enough but no way would it have been a quality album. Day 1 is fine enough but you have the whole mess of the weather. without the visual of her on stage in the rain and wind, the sound isn't great. Day 2 her voice isn't as strong. a little raspy now and then.

    now if they were releasing VHS tapes of videos back at this time, perhaps that would have been a better outlet. then you have the wildly dramatic visual of the storm and Day 1. then pick a few pieces of Day 2 and have that almost as "Act II" in the video. but this concert doesn't have the audio quality of her Evening With back in 77.

    she certainly could have released the 79 HBO special on audio. her vocals there are masterful.
    I think they could have released a single out of her performance of RIBBON IN THE SKY. IMO, it was her best vocal of the day, along with MIRROR, MIRROR.

    Back in 1983, one of my local stations aired the Central Park concert and I taped it on 8-track! For months, I used to listen to it every day from 4-5:30 like clockwork. I remember wondering why it wasn't released as a live album but now I agree that it really doesn't work as well without the stunning visuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I think they could have released a single out of her performance of RIBBON IN THE SKY. IMO, it was her best vocal of the day, along with MIRROR, MIRROR.

    Back in 1983, one of my local stations aired the Central Park concert and I taped it on 8-track! For months, I used to listen to it every day from 4-5:30 like clockwork. I remember wondering why it wasn't released as a live album but now I agree that it really doesn't work as well without the stunning visuals.
    exactly. it's not that she sounds bad [[like on Greatest Hits Live released in early 90s). but she doesn't sound spectacular. and the real gem here was the craziness with the storm and audio only just doesn't capture it. I think a 45 min concert on vhs could have worked. maybe an intro section with footage of the year proceeding with all the work [[just a couple mins) and then the bulk would be Night 1 and the storm. then selections from the second day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    exactly. it's not that she sounds bad [[like on Greatest Hits Live released in early 90s). but she doesn't sound spectacular. and the real gem here was the craziness with the storm and audio only just doesn't capture it. I think a 45 min concert on vhs could have worked. maybe an intro section with footage of the year proceeding with all the work [[just a couple mins) and then the bulk would be Night 1 and the storm. then selections from the second day.
    I think if she had released Central Park on VHS back in the 80s it would have been a big seller. The HBO '79 concert was already available on vhs by that time and her 1984 video collection was actually certified gold.

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    it worked for



    #6 Billboard album chart , double platinum

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    that's also a much stronger concert than Diana's CP show

    in theory, Diana Ross Live In Central Park could have/should have been a mega hit album. she had more hits than practically any other artist, she was still a major pop chart presence in 83 [[although that was starting to slip), her name recognition was huge and she's a dynamic live performer.

    but listening to a singer in a thunderstorm just isn't very exciting

    watching a singer in a thunderstorm is!

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    ha ha !!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
    Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.
    But, if she were so headstrong, why couldn't she just demand that RCA wait until Quincy was finished with the other album? Couldn't she have demanded more time?

    Also, after the album was released, why couldn't Quincy do her follow up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLoveLamar View Post
    But, if she were so headstrong, why couldn't she just demand that RCA wait until Quincy was finished with the other album? Couldn't she have demanded more time?

    Also, after the album was released, why couldn't Quincy do her follow up?
    Probably because Q had begun work on the Donna Summer LP by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sansradio View Post
    Probably because Q had begun work on the Donna Summer LP by then.
    Quincy was also producing MJ's Thriller album between April - November '82.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    I really enjoy reading such recollections. It provides extra insight into what is surely a very complex character. Iím sure she must have been a complete nightmare to work during that period, but It certainly doesn't stop me being any less of a fan.

    It doesnít affect my fandom either, itís just a bit of interesting information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    oh i would have offered to take him to dinner to extend the conversation!!! fascinating!!
    Believe me honey I was doing everything I could to continue this conversation short of throwing myself on the ground and grabbing his leg! He didn’t really even want to talk about her as I recall, the whole thing was kind of like a nightmare to him. It was a stressful time in her life she was going through all the Motown separation stuff, being an absolute gigantic superstar and all that that entails plus I assume, some sort of desperate need to stay on top which would be stressful, plus she’s raising three girls plus she’s trying to do a movie career plus she’s single and dating and then gets married to a guy that doesn’t understand show business……Those could be reasons why she was investing less time in her recording career than I would’ve liked. But who knows? She was used to just going in and getting things done quickly. The only RCA album I was happy with was swept away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    Quincy was also producing MJ's Thriller album between April - November '82.
    But he didn't end up producing any albums for her. Couldn't they have made time to do just one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JLoveLamar View Post
    But, if she were so headstrong, why couldn't she just demand that RCA wait until Quincy was finished with the other album? Couldn't she have demanded more time?

    Also, after the album was released, why couldn't Quincy do her follow up?
    Following the success of the Fools album she understandably thought she had got the production side off to a tee. Why spend 1000's of bucks on hiring Quincy when you can do it yourself for a fraction of the cost? Also Quincy was in great demand and wasn't going to stand around waiting for her to give him a call.
    Had the Fools album flopped as it deserved to we would probably not have been subjected to Silk Electric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Following the success of the Fools album she understandably thought she had got the production side off to a tee. Why spend 1000's of bucks on hiring Quincy when you can do it yourself for a fraction of the cost? Also Quincy was in great demand and wasn't going to stand around waiting for her to give him a call.
    Had the Fools album flopped as it deserved to we would probably not have been subjected to Silk Electric.
    Have you any idea Mr B if Stevie Wonder was ever approached to produce that first album for rca after QJ was held up?. Diana has shown she clearly loves his music, and even delayed the FBTP album so his song could be included. Perhaps the Motown connection would have made it a no no in 81.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Have you any idea Mr B if Stevie Wonder was ever approached to produce that first album for rca after QJ was held up?. Diana has shown she clearly loves his music, and even delayed the FBTP album so his song could be included. Perhaps the Motown connection would have made it a no no in 81.
    I don't think so. I am sure we would have heard something about it before now. Stevie was very busy around this time, and it is unlikely he would have been more readily available than Quincy.
    She spoke warmly of Stevie, and there was obviously genuine affection between the two. She would surely have mentioned it had it ever been a possibility.
    It would have been a great idea i agree. Stevie was at his creative peak and they could have come up with a classic album. Instead we got the Fools album. Enough said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I don't think so. I am sure we would have heard something about it before now. Stevie was very busy around this time, and it is unlikely he would have been more readily available than Quincy.
    She spoke warmly of Stevie, and there was obviously genuine affection between the two. She would surely have mentioned it had it ever been a possibility.
    It would have been a great idea i agree. Stevie was at his creative peak and they could have come up with a classic album. Instead we got the Fools album. Enough said.
    see i just don't know that i would be all that excited about Stevie producing Diana. it really is mostly just personal preference - just not a huge fan of his music. I don't deny his immense talent but just never really got into his stuff

    Given the funkier direction he often went in [[at least the 70s) i don't see Diana's voice being a great fit. Jean Terrell on the other hand was.

    IMO Diana's music has almost always had a sophistication and elegance to it. even more urban things like diana 80. And that doesn't mean she has to only sing big soap-opera songs like It's My Turn. Marvin, Smokey both seem to capture that elegance even in many different sounds and styles. stevie and Rick James are more funk - talented and geniuses in those areas but "elegant" doesn't really seem to fit IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    see i just don't know that i would be all that excited about Stevie producing Diana. it really is mostly just personal preference - just not a huge fan of his music. I don't deny his immense talent but just never really got into his stuff

    Given the funkier direction he often went in [[at least the 70s) i don't see Diana's voice being a great fit. Jean Terrell on the other hand was.

    IMO Diana's music has almost always had a sophistication and elegance to it. even more urban things like diana 80. And that doesn't mean she has to only sing big soap-opera songs like It's My Turn. Marvin, Smokey both seem to capture that elegance even in many different sounds and styles. stevie and Rick James are more funk - talented and geniuses in those areas but "elegant" doesn't really seem to fit IMO.
    Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
    I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
    The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
    I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
    The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.
    i'll be the first to admit i'm not widely familiar with Stevie's work - both his own and his productions for others. Much of what i'm basing this off of his the material i'm most familiar with which are his classic 70s albums

    now this isn't to say his music is poor quality or that nothing was sophisticated or elegant. Knocks Me Off My Feet is a wonderful song and yes that would be sophisticated and elegant.

    My main point is that i just didn't "hear" him as a producer that would have fit as well with DR. and yes, i agree that not every song she recorded was flawless. the examples you cite are classic ones that most fans really dislike [[although i like Girls lol). Another key example is the WO album. Do i think DR could have gone a very contemporary r&b album in 1989 that focused on hip house and all yet still incorporated her signature sophistication and elegance? sure. was WO an example of this - absolutely not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie9 View Post
    Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
    I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
    The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.
    You beat me to the punch Ollie. I was just about to give those examples [[and more besides) which in no shape or form could ever be described as elegant or sophisticated. Most of the Fools and Silk Electric were anything but that.
    Sup Fan - At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference. I am a huge Stevie who i rate as quite possibly the greatest songwriter of the 20th Century. His albums contain so many treasures, but i respect your right to disagree. I think he could have worked his magic with Diana, but of course we will never know.
    Who would have been your choice of producer assuming you could pick anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'll be the first to admit i'm not widely familiar with Stevie's work - both his own and his productions for others. Much of what i'm basing this off of his the material i'm most familiar with which are his classic 70s albums

    now this isn't to say his music is poor quality or that nothing was sophisticated or elegant. Knocks Me Off My Feet is a wonderful song and yes that would be sophisticated and elegant.

    My main point is that i just didn't "hear" him as a producer that would have fit as well with DR. and yes, i agree that not every song she recorded was flawless. the examples you cite are classic ones that most fans really dislike [[although i like Girls lol). Another key example is the WO album. Do i think DR could have gone a very contemporary r&b album in 1989 that focused on hip house and all yet still incorporated her signature sophistication and elegance? sure. was WO an example of this - absolutely not
    Purely based on the two albums he produced on Syreeta, particularly Stevie Wonder Presents, i think it would have made for an interesting matchup. Bearing in mind also Syreeta’s voice is not that dissimilar to Diana’s.
    Sensitive ballads with a little funk mixed in. I for one would have been more then happy with a little of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    You beat me to the punch Ollie. I was just about to give those examples [[and more besides) which in no shape or form could ever be described as elegant or sophisticated. Most of the Fools and Silk Electric were anything but that.
    Sup Fan - At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference. I am a huge Stevie who i rate as quite possibly the greatest songwriter of the 20th Century. His albums contain so many treasures, but i respect your right to disagree. I think he could have worked his magic with Diana, but of course we will never know.
    Who would have been your choice of producer assuming you could pick anyone?
    hmmm - if i had to pick a producer?

    Marvin would be top. His productions on What's Going On and Let's Get It On are gorgeous and while i'm not proposing those concepts take on a DR vocal, i think the sounds and styles could have been easily adapted to Diana.

    Continuing with the marvin idea, Marvin, Leon Ware and T Boy Ross produced his next studio album, I Want You, which is a huge favorite of mine. Again the lyric and content it not what i'd propose for Diana, but i think the sound, vibe and style could have worked. So in addition to Marvin, potentially Leon or T Boy.

    Imagine if T Boy produced a DR album!!

    while i'm not a fan of the material he DID do on Diana, Jeff Bowen might be another option.

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