Lynda on lead: STONED LOVE

[milven]

Cindy was a 2nd soprano, not a first. her upper range is not her strongest element. she tended to do best in the middle and the tone of her voice is one that melts away beautifully with the other singers. it's there - it's not that she's not singing. or singing as quietly as a mouse. it's just that you really have to listen in order to separate her vocal from the others. that's a good thing

during the DMC era, Cindy had to assume the 1st soprano line on many of the songs. Like on The Impossible Dream on TCB. she certainly can do it and it sounds lovely. but her sweet spot is lower. but so was Diana's. that makes it a challenge with 3 part harmony.

Jean and Scherrie had stronger upper ranges than C or D. So in the studios that allowed some excellent 3-part harmony because you had a true 1st soprano.

the 3 part harmonies from the MSC era are among the best the group ever recorded. I'm not a mega fan of Sup 75 but that's mostly because i think some of the songs are weak. but the singing on those weak songs is excellent. but HMM, Color My World, hell - even This Is Why.

I don't know anything about first or second soprano. But I do know that I like harmony and when it is done right, it almost sounds like one voice. You may have explained why I like this clip of MSC so much. Without notice and to their complete surprise- you can see the surprise on Mary's face - they had to sing the song acapella. They did a terrific job, and their harmony was glorious.

[thanxal]

I don't know anything about first or second soprano. But I do know that I like harmony and when it is done right, it almost sounds like one voice. You may have explained why I like this clip of MSC so much. Without notice and to their complete surprise- you can see the surprise on Mary's face - they had to sing the song acapella. They did a terrific job, and their harmony was glorious.

Milven, you really hit it with this example. This is exactly why I get so peeved when some people post about the later Supremes as somehow inferior. Some trollish posters like to write things like "screeching" or "hollering" when referring to MSC and MSS and it always makes me think less of the person writing that. Here we have Cindy, Mary, and Scherrie, caught completely off-guard, not ready to sing acapella and what do they do? Hit it right out of the park [[ring) with a moving rendition of a song that many other artists have run afoul of. It isn't as easy to sing as one might think. Imagine being in that ring, being told "no, we don't have the music" and then just belting it out any damn way. Every version of the Supremes were supreme. This is just a REALLY good example. Thanks Milven.

[RanRan79]

Milven, you really hit it with this example. This is exactly why I get so peeved when some people post about the later Supremes as somehow inferior. Some trollish posters like to write things like "screeching" or "hollering" when referring to MSC and MSS and it always makes me think less of the person writing that. Here we have Cindy, Mary, and Scherrie, caught completely off-guard, not ready to sing acapella and what do they do? Hit it right out of the park [[ring) with a moving rendition of a song that many other artists have run afoul of. It isn't as easy to sing as one might think. Imagine being in that ring, being told "no, we don't have the music" and then just belting it out any damn way. Every version of the Supremes were supreme. This is just a REALLY good example. Thanks Milven.

At the risk of causing your opinion of me to ebb [[as I know you have the utmost respect for me prior to this post), I do think there are times when the last grouping relied less on group harmony and more on every woman for herself. Because Mary, Scherrie and Susaye were all great singers in her own right, the group could never seriously be considered as lacking talent nor are there no examples of them being in excellent form. But sometimes they did too much, IMO. I don't know about hollering, but there was definitely some screeching going on at times. The fact that Susaye had the ability to damn near shatter glass with her octaves, might contribute to the feeling of "screech", even if that's not what she's actually doing, if that makes any sense.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Ollie9]

At the risk of causing your opinion of me to ebb [[as I know you have the utmost respect for me prior to this post), I do think there are times when the last grouping relied less on group harmony and more on every woman for herself. Because Mary, Scherrie and Susaye were all great singers in her own right, the group could never seriously be considered as lacking talent nor are there no examples of them being in excellent form. But sometimes they did too much, IMO. I don't know about hollering, but there was definitely some screeching going on at times. The fact that Susaye had the ability to damn near shatter glass with her octaves, might contribute to the feeling of "screech", even if that's not what she's actually doing, if that makes any sense.

That's my opinion anyway.

I agree in that Susaye when left to her own devices could sound a little shall we say sharp. She often sounded so much better when in the studio giving a more controlled performance.

[sup_fan]

Milven, you really hit it with this example. This is exactly why I get so peeved when some people post about the later Supremes as somehow inferior. Some trollish posters like to write things like "screeching" or "hollering" when referring to MSC and MSS and it always makes me think less of the person writing that. Here we have Cindy, Mary, and Scherrie, caught completely off-guard, not ready to sing acapella and what do they do? Hit it right out of the park [[ring) with a moving rendition of a song that many other artists have run afoul of. It isn't as easy to sing as one might think. Imagine being in that ring, being told "no, we don't have the music" and then just belting it out any damn way. Every version of the Supremes were supreme. This is just a REALLY good example. Thanks Milven.

i agree that the MSC and MSS lineups were excellent. but not necessarily 100% of the time. and moreso with MSS. in the studio they were, quite frankly, one of the strongest lineups. their 3 part harmonies on Love I Never Knew are rocking. Susaye's echo lead with Mary on We Should be Closer - stunning. and the entire Sweet Dream Machine song is magic.

things shifted sometimes when live. not 100% of the time but sometimes.

My World is empty - this is amazing. Scherrie is smoldering and M and S do flawless octave work in the background. and the final note "without YOUUUUUUUUUUU" is perfect

Maybe this time - another excellent live track. while you could debate that by 77 it might ahve been a bit too old of a song, they are great. even on the Caesar's bootleg where the overall show and run was very poorly received [[especially the sloppy hits medley in the uni-dress) the audience applauds loud and full after this one

Let yourself go - ok this is where things get a bit rough. and this is one of my fav Sup songs ever! at least the studio version is. on the record, there's an echo effect when they sing the chorus - Let Yoursellf Go-o-o-o-o-o-o. For the shows they seems to attempt to replicate this by singing "go" again and again and all over the place. they also add so many woo's, yeah's, oww's during the main verses of the song [[which were not on the studio version) that when they do the ending with all of the ad libs, the effect is sort of lost. the ending on the record has them really let loose and party. but live they've been all over the place throughout the song so the overall impact is less.

ad libs in general - there's a LOT of different ad libs going on through the MSS songs in the stage act. sometimes less is more. Also for all 3 women to be doing it, makes it a challenge to know what's going on where and with whom

excess choreography and tempos - they took these songs on stage as a breakneck pace. like Let Yourself Go. plus they have heavy, intricate choreography. and on top of that they were doing lots of 3-part harmonies. the problem is they are literally breathless and that makes the whole thing sound manic

[thanxal]

i agree that the MSC and MSS lineups were excellent. but not necessarily 100% of the time. and moreso with MSS. in the studio they were, quite frankly, one of the strongest lineups. their 3 part harmonies on Love I Never Knew are rocking. Susaye's echo lead with Mary on We Should be Closer - stunning. and the entire Sweet Dream Machine song is magic.

things shifted sometimes when live. not 100% of the time but sometimes.

My World is empty - this is amazing. Scherrie is smoldering and M and S do flawless octave work in the background. and the final note "without YOUUUUUUUUUUU" is perfect

Maybe this time - another excellent live track. while you could debate that by 77 it might ahve been a bit too old of a song, they are great. even on the Caesar's bootleg where the overall show and run was very poorly received [[especially the sloppy hits medley in the uni-dress) the audience applauds loud and full after this one

Let yourself go - ok this is where things get a bit rough. and this is one of my fav Sup songs ever! at least the studio version is. on the record, there's an echo effect when they sing the chorus - Let Yoursellf Go-o-o-o-o-o-o. For the shows they seems to attempt to replicate this by singing "go" again and again and all over the place. they also add so many woo's, yeah's, oww's during the main verses of the song [[which were not on the studio version) that when they do the ending with all of the ad libs, the effect is sort of lost. the ending on the record has them really let loose and party. but live they've been all over the place throughout the song so the overall impact is less.

ad libs in general - there's a LOT of different ad libs going on through the MSS songs in the stage act. sometimes less is more. Also for all 3 women to be doing it, makes it a challenge to know what's going on where and with whom

excess choreography and tempos - they took these songs on stage as a breakneck pace. like Let Yourself Go. plus they have heavy, intricate choreography. and on top of that they were doing lots of 3-part harmonies. the problem is they are literally breathless and that makes the whole thing sound manic

Yes, I agree with you that there were times when they weren't 100%. Certainly that is true [[I don't particularly care for Lynda's performance below). My point was, much like Milven stated, they did have very good harmonies and performed very well together. My gripe was with the trolls who often summarily dismiss anything by MSC or MSS as "screeching".

[sup_fan]

Yes, I agree with you that there were times when they weren't 100%. Certainly that is true [[I don't particularly care for Lynda's performance below). My point was, much like Milven stated, they did have very good harmonies and performed very well together. My gripe was with the trolls who often summarily dismiss anything by MSC or MSS as "screeching".

yeah i'm with you on that one. the other thing to remember is we are all going off of some 100th generation dubbing of a 40+ year old bootleg that was recorded secretly on some tinny little cassette recorder.

we've had similar bootlegs of live shows and unreleased Diana era content and can compare these to the extras that have been provided on the various EE's. and the cleanup and sound is SOOOOOOO much better. So imagine if we had the REAL recordings and fresh live tapes of MSS and MSC

[thanxal]

the other thing to remember is we are all going off of some 100th generation dubbing of a 40+ year old bootleg that was recorded secretly on some tinny little cassette recorder.

Another good point. Couldn’t agree more.

[RanRan79]

I don't know anything about first or second soprano. But I do know that I like harmony and when it is done right, it almost sounds like one voice. You may have explained why I like this clip of MSC so much. Without notice and to their complete surprise- you can see the surprise on Mary's face - they had to sing the song acapella. They did a terrific job, and their harmony was glorious.

Milven, you said it better than I did. That's what I was trying to get at when I mentioned Mary and Cindy's strength together. They could sound almost as one. And the vid you post illustrates how the addition of Scherrie in the harmony only strengthened the sound. [[I've opined in the forum on multiple occasions that I believe MSC almost always recorded their backing vocals together, no matter who was singing lead.)

Contrast that to Mary and Flo. Now there are definitely times when during the harmony the two of them achieve that perfect oneness, for sure. However, as I've written in the forum before, Flo and Mary also approached background singing in the gospel group tradition, where the harmony is structured in a way that each singer is identifiable. The Andantes were capable of this, but more often than not, and especially as time went on, they approached [[or were encouraged by the producers) to use the pop approach, thus the sophisticated sound they would become known for. Flo and Mary were r&b, even when they weren't necessarily singing those kinds of songs. Mary and Cindy were pop. Flo and Cindy were just so different from one another. It had to affect the sound.

[sup_fan]

I don't know anything about first or second soprano. But I do know that I like harmony and when it is done right, it almost sounds like one voice. You may have explained why I like this clip of MSC so much. Without notice and to their complete surprise- you can see the surprise on Mary's face - they had to sing the song acapella. They did a terrific job, and their harmony was glorious.

exactly. in group singing, the goal when singing together is to have the voices blend so that it sounds like 1 voice. even when singing in harmony. and in the studio it might be easier since you're just standing there, no nerves, no choreography, no hot stage lights. you're focused on singing and can concentrate on blending with your partners. blending often involves the placement of the vocals - meaning how you form each syllable.

think of the early Diana Ross and how nasal and bright her tone was. when singing backgrounds, she often still really stood out. then think of her and Mary doing the backing vocals on What Becomes of the Broken Hearted. she had evolved her singing voice and the two blended wonderfully.