Hair pulling cat fight

**BobbyC** · 09-10-2020, 02:28 PM

Hi everybody--leave it to me to start the trashiest thread on the forum! I've read in several books that Florence "jumped" Diana back in the 60's when she was still with the group. Does anybody know if this actually happened? Part of me wouldn't be surprised, but on the other hand, accounts of this cat fight said it happened on the set of a Christmas TV show segment, while another version claimed it happened backstage at a hotel. Does anybody know?

**SatansBlues** · 09-10-2020, 02:31 PM

When I was a kid growing up and I would tell my mother that I was bored, she would always tell me to go read a book.

**BobbyC** · 09-10-2020, 02:54 PM

Are you suggesting I'm hideously bored and wanting some prurient entertainment? GUILTY. I already read a book earlier today about human evolution, but now I want some trash.

**SatansBlues** · 09-10-2020, 03:05 PM

Listening to music is enjoyable as well.

**BobbyC** · 09-10-2020, 03:24 PM

Sup--one account said that when the group was performing a Christmas song on some TV show, one of Florence's ear-rings fell off and onto the floor. Diana supposedly stepped on it, and F thought it was intentional--which led to the beat down. If it actually happened. I don't really care either way--I was just wondering if this story was ever confirmed. Doesn't seem like it. Even Tony Turner said it was all "rumored."

**sup_fan** · 09-10-2020, 03:17 PM

there have been rumors on this but i've not read any real documented evidence of this. Tony Turner wrote about it but that's a crock of shit. Randy did in CHMR but then i don't believe he included in the later Diana bio. Of course i wasn't there so i don't know for sure. clearly the relationships within the group were deteriorating by late 66 and into 67.

For some reason i doubt that D and F had a huge brawl

i do think though that they argued and fought. and i think M fought with F some times. and D fought with M some times. and other times each of them was pissed at Gil or Mrs Powell or something. these girls were on the road CONSTANTLY. their touring was non stop, they were always appearing on local and national tv gigs. meeting with djs and promotional appearances. They slept, ate, farted, coughed, read, sang, crapped, fought, laughed, joked, annoyed, teased, hated, loved, gossiped, played cards together.

so of course they argued and fought. who wouldn't

**BobbyC** · 09-10-2020, 03:19 PM

Satans, you little dickens, tell me you're not curious as to whether or not this fight actually happened. I'm just naturally nosy

**SatansBlues** · 09-10-2020, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by BobbyC

Satans, you little dickens, tell me you're not curious as to whether or not this fight actually happened. I'm just naturally nosy

Not at all. I have a full and productive life that doesn't revolve around some fight/disagreement/gossip/urban legend from over 50 years ago like a teenage girl that's bored. And no, I'm not calling you a teenager. I just think the music is so much better than the petty gossip.

**captainjames** · 09-10-2020, 03:38 PM

Supposedly it happen on the Ed Sullivan show singing "My favorite Things". Thanks to technology we can watch this performance and at no time does Flo earrings fall off her ear. So, does that mean the earring fell off backstage ? That is strange since their exit is from opposite sides. I just don't see Flo with everything else going on being that petty.

**sup_fan** · 09-10-2020, 03:43 PM

i think the story goes that the earring fell off during the rehearsal.

the story certainly could have happened. Flo's earring falling off and diana accidentally stepping on it. and once backstage they might have pushed and shoved and shouted a bit. I don't think Flo went completely UFC on Diana's ass.

or it could just be another of the many F and D arguments with one another. And a stage hand then talked about the girls fighting which some woman in the drugstore overheard and misinterpreted that they were in full boxing gloves and apparel and rumbling.

**reese** · 09-10-2020, 03:47 PM

Of course, only those involved know for sure. But I would hope such a thing didn't happen.

That said, if it did, I would think that it signed Flo's pink slip right there. It is one thing to have to deal with someone's mood swings and drinking problems. But when it becomes physical, that is a terrible line to cross.

**BobbyC** · 09-10-2020, 03:55 PM

I personally think Mary or somebody else would have written about it it, had it actually happened. This story shall be filed under unproven.

**franjoy56** · 09-20-2020, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by BobbyC

I personally think Mary or somebody else would have written about it it, had it actually happened. This story shall be filed under unproven.

In the tv e true hollywood. Diana Ross riche busche a Motown historian tells the story stating it happened backstage after rehearsal and it took three men to get flo off diana.

**midnightman** · 09-10-2020, 05:22 PM

Mary never wrote about it and in none of the interviews Florence gave to Benjaminson did she ever mention this incident.

So I'm gonna say it's fake news [[TM - Hillary Clinton).

**RanRan79** · 09-11-2020, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Mary never wrote about it and in none of the interviews Florence gave to Benjaminson did she ever mention this incident.

So I'm gonna say it's fake news [[TM - Hillary Clinton).

Agreed. Not everything written is documentation.

**antceleb12** · 09-10-2020, 10:38 PM

I think we can all admit that, as humans, we have a natural curiosity for the dramatic aspects of people's lives, but I think we owe it to the ladies - especially Florence, who can no longer speak for herself - to move on and leave the drama to the ladies to bury and move from, and just enjoy the music and legacy they left us. That being said, I think understanding their dynamic to a degree helps us understand how the Motown machine both propelled its artists to stardom while often creating challenges in their personal lives.

The most important interviews, in my opinion, are the ones recorded by Florence roughly a year before her passing. She had nothing to lose and nothing to hide, so I believe her responses give way to mostly honest and candid feelings toward her former singing partners. It's clear that, even though Florence was dealing with personal problems of her own, she had moved past the personal problems and mended her relationships with Mary and Diana - as most friends do with enough time and distance. Her remaining grudges I believe were mostly reserved for Berry and even her ex [[?) husband, Tommy.

I also think its important to remember that the type of brawling invented and exaggerated by "journalists" [[Florence jumping on Diana, Florence throwing a drink in Berry's face, the drama at the party Florence was unceremoniously thrown out of in the late sixties) only serves to enforce a "ghetto" image of Florence, and detract from the personal and professional struggles of the Supremes. There is a history of people taking such a successful black group such as the Supremes [[and the Temptations) and shining unwarranted spotlights on human flaws of each member to create the illusion that they were whores of the industry, had sold their souls to the devil, etc etc.

**RanRan79** · 09-11-2020, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by antceleb12

The most important interviews, in my opinion, are the ones recorded by Florence roughly a year before her passing. She had nothing to lose and nothing to hide, so I believe her responses give way to mostly honest and candid feelings toward her former singing partners. It's clear that, even though Florence was dealing with personal problems of her own, she had moved past the personal problems and mended her relationships with Mary and Diana - as most friends do with enough time and distance. Her remaining grudges I believe were mostly reserved for Berry and even her ex [[?) husband, Tommy.

I also think its important to remember that the type of brawling invented and exaggerated by "journalists" [[Florence jumping on Diana, Florence throwing a drink in Berry's face, the drama at the party Florence was unceremoniously thrown out of in the late sixties) only serves to enforce a "ghetto" image of Florence, and detract from the personal and professional struggles of the Supremes. There is a history of people taking such a successful black group such as the Supremes [[and the Temptations) and shining unwarranted spotlights on human flaws of each member to create the illusion that they were whores of the industry, had sold their souls to the devil, etc etc.

Great points. I agree about Flo's interviews. As usual I'm sure there was some one sidedness, Flo seeing things only from her perspective, but I feel the same way: she had nothing to lose, so why not just tell it? Diana and Mary had to be careful with what they said in order to protect their public images. Flo already had to tell the world she was so broke that she had to go on welfare. I imagine that may have created a "fuck it" attitude.

I don't know if anyone reads into these accounts as Flo being anymore "ghetto" than the accounts of Diana's ridiculous behavior during the 60s, but there is a racial and sexist component to why the emphasis [[even among so called fans) is on the Supremes' personal lives as opposed to their music. Even the Tempts don't get the flack the Supremes get. I pointed out in a thread that pissed some snowflakes off some time ago that David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks could beat the shit out of women, do all the drugs in the world, not pay child support, all kinds of shit and not get a fraction of the criticism that Diana Ross gets...for being "mean". Those guys' music is allowed to stand, their talents be the measuring stick for how they are judged. The Supremes are not afforded the same. There's no way a sub forum for the Tempts would ever have a thread about their fights. Too much music to talk. The same should go for the Supremes, yet here we are...

**midnightman** · 09-11-2020, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by antceleb12

I think we can all admit that, as humans, we have a natural curiosity for the dramatic aspects of people's lives, but I think we owe it to the ladies - especially Florence, who can no longer speak for herself - to move on and leave the drama to the ladies to bury and move from, and just enjoy the music and legacy they left us. That being said, I think understanding their dynamic to a degree helps us understand how the Motown machine both propelled its artists to stardom while often creating challenges in their personal lives.

The most important interviews, in my opinion, are the ones recorded by Florence roughly a year before her passing. She had nothing to lose and nothing to hide, so I believe her responses give way to mostly honest and candid feelings toward her former singing partners. It's clear that, even though Florence was dealing with personal problems of her own, she had moved past the personal problems and mended her relationships with Mary and Diana - as most friends do with enough time and distance. Her remaining grudges I believe were mostly reserved for Berry and even her ex [[?) husband, Tommy.

I also think its important to remember that the type of brawling invented and exaggerated by "journalists" [[Florence jumping on Diana, Florence throwing a drink in Berry's face, the drama at the party Florence was unceremoniously thrown out of in the late sixties) only serves to enforce a "ghetto" image of Florence, and detract from the personal and professional struggles of the Supremes. There is a history of people taking such a successful black group such as the Supremes [[and the Temptations) and shining unwarranted spotlights on human flaws of each member to create the illusion that they were whores of the industry, had sold their souls to the devil, etc etc.

They love to write about an "angry black woman" narrative. That always bothered me when reading books on the Supremes.

**luke** · 09-10-2020, 11:14 PM

Mary did write that Diana jumped on her back and started pulling her hair I believe.

**RanRan79** · 09-11-2020, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Mary did write that Diana jumped on her back and started pulling her hair I believe.

That's the one physical altercation between Supremes that comes from a legitimate source. Of course at the time they were 17/18 years old and as Mary said, it was something trivial. I believe it because as close as they were at this point, for a physical fight to break out, like sisters, it would've been something stupid. Of course that was Mary's side of the story. I wonder if Diana saw it as trivial.

**midnightman** · 09-11-2020, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

That's the one physical altercation between Supremes that comes from a legitimate source. Of course at the time they were 17/18 years old and as Mary said, it was something trivial. I believe it because as close as they were at this point, for a physical fight to break out, like sisters, it would've been something stupid. Of course that was Mary's side of the story. I wonder if Diana saw it as trivial.

It was probably over something silly like a hairbrush. Again, they were kids.

**marybrewster** · 09-11-2020, 11:25 AM

Wouldn't it be wigs and not hair?

**PeaceNHarmony** · 09-11-2020, 12:02 PM

Good to see the forum is still featuring the classiest discussions on the web.

**lucky2012** · 09-11-2020, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Good to see the forum is still featuring the classiest discussions on the web.

Good to see you here, Peace!

**Circa 1824** · 09-11-2020, 12:06 PM

I read somewhere that in an elevator Diana had her wig yanked off during a scuffle.

**BobbyC** · 09-11-2020, 12:22 PM

Glad you are enjoying this, Peace.

**BobbyC** · 09-11-2020, 12:51 PM

Uhhhh who felt that any of the Supremes was an "angry black woman?" Please provide a link to that because I've never once seen that written or said. If anything, the Supremes projected undying happiness even if miserable behind the scenes. That's how show biz was back then. And guys, I was not asking about the time DR pulled Mary's hair--that was nothing, just dopey kid crap. That being said, if Flo really did attack DR at the height of their fame as has been reported, then it was a firable offense, no question. So no, this isn't just gossip for gossip sake--it is a viable question

**antceleb12** · 09-12-2020, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by BobbyC

Uhhhh who felt that any of the Supremes was an "angry black woman?" Please provide a link to that because I've never once seen that written or said. If anything, the Supremes projected undying happiness even if miserable behind the scenes. That's how show biz was back then. And guys, I was not asking about the time DR pulled Mary's hair--that was nothing, just dopey kid crap. That being said, if Flo really did attack DR at the height of their fame as has been reported, then it was a firable offense, no question. So no, this isn't just gossip for gossip sake--it is a viable question

It's in countless books; not necessarily a direct reference to "angry black women," but it's the insinuation that because the group split up or because Florence was fired there HAD to be bad blood. And Florence and Diana, in particular, are portrayed as either an all-out diva [[Diana) or a temperamental rollercoaster [[Florence), which are essentially just variations of the "angry black woman" stereotype.

What you should also understand is that over many, many years this forum has seen an unceasing onslaught of discussions on the same questions - did Florence really hate Diana, was Mary's book true, did Berry and Diana set Florence up ... etc etc, ad nauseam, with many discussions turning quite uncivil very quickly, so when these do pop-up again many forum veterans are quick to try to steer the conversation away from hot-button topics and back onto the music.

**Circa 1824** · 09-12-2020, 03:03 PM

I’m living in shame

**BobbyC** · 09-12-2020, 03:43 PM

I have promised Boogie that I'll be good from now on.

**midnightman** · 09-13-2020, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by antceleb12

It's in countless books; not necessarily a direct reference to "angry black women," but it's the insinuation that because the group split up or because Florence was fired there HAD to be bad blood. And Florence and Diana, in particular, are portrayed as either an all-out diva [[Diana) or a temperamental rollercoaster [[Florence), which are essentially just variations of the "angry black woman" stereotype.

What you should also understand is that over many, many years this forum has seen an unceasing onslaught of discussions on the same questions - did Florence really hate Diana, was Mary's book true, did Berry and Diana set Florence up ... etc etc, ad nauseam, with many discussions turning quite uncivil very quickly, so when these do pop-up again many forum veterans are quick to try to steer the conversation away from hot-button topics and back onto the music.

All of this. That's why I had to grow up. I think some of us got so heavily involved in trying to discuss what made the original Supremes tick that it took away from what made them important in the first place: their music and their showmanship.

**floyjoy678** · 09-11-2020, 01:59 PM

The only time I remember hearing about Flo beating up Diana was on Diana's E! True Hollywood Story. It was during rehearsals for "My Favorite Things".

I do remember Mary wrote about Flo throwing her drink in Berry's face and then thats pretty much when they started looking for her replacement.

**Boogiedown** · 09-11-2020, 02:12 PM

... but that's the narrative by default ! Everybody was miserable back then , don'tcha' know???

Funny Bobby, you clearly titled the thread, HAIR PULLING CAT FIGHT.... and still they come ! How do you drag them in , you trickster

But then again , such a topic!

... this is after all, a forum about DRATS. Very serious important stuff, no way a proper place for this type of frivolity!!

So please, no more of these menial diversions ; it's vital to stay deep and focused , so let's get back to the music:

**BobbyC** · 09-11-2020, 02:31 PM

Boogie--I've been a bad, bad boy.

**Boogiedown** · 09-11-2020, 02:36 PM

you're nothing but heartaches !

**BobbyC** · 09-11-2020, 03:51 PM

Hee hee! I'll be good now, Boogie! I will post endless fluff until everyone lapses into comas.

**BobbyC** · 09-12-2020, 03:41 PM

I was bored, what can I say? But to be honest I always wondered if the cat fight actually happened--you guys seem to have good sources but it doesn't ever seem like anybody can confirm it. But who cares that the group members didn't get along--that isn't exactly news. The Four Tops didn't get along--they just saw it as a job.

**captainjames** · 09-19-2020, 12:08 AM

I would think if there was any truth to the hair fighting and wigs and gowns flying the Supremes as a group as we know them would have ended real quick. I just don't see Berry Gordy putting up with it along the way. Perhaps that is why chaperons traveled with the girls for so many yeas. The one thing that we as fans sometimes seem to forget and that is Mary, Diana and Flo loved each other.

**Ollie9** · 09-19-2020, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

I just don't see Berry Gordy putting up with it along the way. Perhaps that is why chaperons traveled with the girls for so many yeas..

Do you suggest that chaperones were employed as a means to discourage these three young women from physically attacking each other?.

**captainjames** · 09-19-2020, 12:30 PM

No not at all, I think the chaperones were there because the girls were young and they were there as anyone would be as an adult guidance so there were many reasons to have them on the road. However, let's think about that for a minute as a chaperone and three girls fighting in front of me .....how long do you think that would have lasted ? or how long do you think the Chaperone would have lasted ? I just have a hard time believing it. What I do believe is Flo playing cards with the chaperones after the shows or Flo going to bed early or calling her family. I just don't see Flo when she got upset putting her hands on someone. If Diana stepped on her earring by mistake I can see Flo being vocal or brushing it off. I don't see her fighting someone over earrings.

**Ollie9** · 09-19-2020, 02:06 PM

QUOTE=captainjames;590383]No not at all, I think the chaperones were there because the girls were young and they were there as anyone would be as an adult guidance so there were many reasons to have them on the road. However, let's think about that for a minute as a chaperone and three girls fighting in front of me .....how long do you think that would have lasted ? or how long do you think the Chaperone would have lasted ? I just have a hard time believing it. What I do believe is Flo playing cards with the chaperones after the shows or Flo going to bed early or calling her family. I just don't see Flo when she got upset putting her hands on someone. If Diana stepped on her earring by mistake I can see Flo being vocal or brushing it off. I don't see her fighting someone over earrings.[/QUOTE]

I rather suspect that if such an incident did indeed take place, the earring was not the root cause of Flo’s over reaction. We all know what it’s like to have someone appear to go out of their way to undermine or aggravate us. Over the course of time even the smallest misdemeanour can seem like a personal attack.
Having said that, I'm sure many of these stories are way overblown. Considering the amount of time the three women spent together, it’s only natural there would be a certain amount of altercations. At least no-one was ever hospitalised lol......At least I don’t think so.

**captainjames** · 09-19-2020, 05:32 PM

I think you spelled it out with the word, "overblown". It just does not seem to be Flo's character to me. Sorry, that's how I see it even with the interviews with Richard Benjamin, it was Flo who said they only had arguments like sisters would have.

**BobbyC** · 09-19-2020, 06:11 PM

I read all the show biz bios and auto bios, and of all the females groups, the only two rumored to have had a serious physical fight were the Supremes and the Spice Girls. The Vandellas didn't, nor did the Go Gos, the Bangles, or any of the others. With the amount of time most of these groups spent together, day in, day out, I'm surprised there aren't more of these stories. Since DR was almost jumped by Martha, one of the Marvelettes, and others, I don't doubt that this fight between her and FB happened.

**captainjames** · 09-19-2020, 07:27 PM

Sorry the story with Martha I don't believe and the Marvelettes story I know is not true per Gladys Horton.

**BobbyC** · 09-19-2020, 07:40 PM

I think you misread what I posted. i said there were confrontations and that came from their own mouths. I've seen the interviews.

**captainjames** · 09-20-2020, 12:07 PM

yeah I wish those interviews would have happen while Florence was alive.

**BobbyC** · 09-20-2020, 12:49 PM

Captain--again, I don't think we are talking about the same thing. What I'm saying is that DR had run-ins that were almost physical with Patti Labelle, Gladys Horton and Martha Reeves. What does Florence have to do with anything? All I'm saying is that DR PO'd a lot of people so it stands to reason that she'd have the same sort of confrontations with her fellow Supremes.

**Roberta75** · 09-20-2020, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by BobbyC

Captain--again, I don't think we are talking about the same thing. What I'm saying is that DR had run-ins that were almost physical with Patti Labelle, Gladys Horton and Martha Reeves. What does Florence have to do with anything? All I'm saying is that DR PO'd a lot of people so it stands to reason that she'd have the same sort of confrontations with her fellow Supremes.

Almost 60 year old stories or history depend on who you talk to. Doesnt matter anymore imo.

**captainjames** · 09-20-2020, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Almost 60 year old stories or history depend on who you talk to. Doesnt matter anymore imo.

Agreed I've had these stories told so many different ways and from so many different sources that I am like ahhh ok. I think growing up in the Brewster Projects and in the inner city of Detroit that Diana was ghetto as hell and a tomboy to boot with three brothers and 2 sisters in her clan. So when these folks say they were going to beat her down, I am like ok well you are going know that she was a scrapper and she is not walking away from a fight. However, with that being said and most of these folks gone on to glory I don't believe any of it.

let me just add this about Patti --- So she wanted to beat down Diana about the outfits because she went out and got them which sounds similar to a Martha Reeves story. Didn't Mary and Fo wear the outfits too ? So apparently Mary and Flo were not against it and Patti was going to have to beat all three Supremes. Love Patti but she is drama.

I wonder how it would twist the story if I told everyone that it was Mary and Diana that went out and found the outfits.

Anyway such a long time ago,,,lets move on.

**captainjames** · 09-20-2020, 01:29 PM

Hey Bobby,
Let me see if I can try from a different angle. The 3 individuals you mention you say "almost" ended in physical confrontation. Again, almost does not say anyone put their hands on each other. Everything sounds vocal to me. Diana is not going to respond to any of these so called allegations and I think the ones you mentioned may of had Flo present. Well, none of these things came to light until Flo was gone. If you are referring to the car and the blind kid with Gladys Horton, I don't have anything where Gladys said that happen. I hope the copying of the pant suits is not what you are referring to with Martha and Diana and supposedly Flo stepping in. I was just reading an article online the other day where Martha says she loves "ROSS" and that's why she calls her that and use to drive her around when they were younger. Patti says so much so I don't know the story there but again you said"almost". So, I will back to I don't Flo put her hands on Diana and I don't think any of these women did. Heck, I "almost" had many fights in my younger years but didn't.