Tammi Terrell. Unsung

[midnightman]

Does anyone else hear Valerie Simpson on most of YAINTGB?

That wasn't Valerie lol

I'm also not totally convinced anymore that Valerie subbed for Tammi for the "Easy" album. I saw that Unsung and Valerie explained it thoroughly what went down. Marvin probably was so angry about the situation and probably thought Motown was forcing Tammi to sing [[despite Berry Gordy reportedly paying the hospital bills) that he felt guilty of seeing Tammi be a victim of the industry, which is how he interpreted it.

Plus, when you're on drugs as he was, your mind gets all cloudy... plus how was she still able to sing near the end of her life? She sang with Marvin at the Apollo in November '69, just right before she died, so I can believe she did sing all those songs.

But anyway, I know she sang YAINTGB all the way.

[jboy88]

That wasn't Valerie lol

I'm also not totally convinced anymore that Valerie subbed for Tammi for the "Easy" album. I saw that Unsung and Valerie explained it thoroughly what went down. Marvin probably was so angry about the situation and probably thought Motown was forcing Tammi to sing [[despite Berry Gordy reportedly paying the hospital bills) that he felt guilty of seeing Tammi be a victim of the industry, which is how he interpreted it.

Plus, when you're on drugs as he was, your mind gets all cloudy... plus how was she still able to sing near the end of her life? She sang with Marvin at the Apollo in November '69, just right before she died, so I can believe she did sing all those songs.

But anyway, I know she sang YAINTGB all the way.

The only reason why I even believe Tammi didn’t sing on “Easy” was because I was under the impression that Tammi wasn’t even aware there was an “Easy” album. Even then, I still never doubted YAINTGB no matter how many people have speculated. Marvin himself, made no comment about it. I feel the same about “Good Lovin’ Ain’t Easy To Come By”, the last song where they do the Marvin/Tammi exchange [[which is on the stereo mix).

I agree 90% with you. I don’t think Marvin was trying to throw Tammi under the bus [[If anything he was trying to throw Berry under the bus), but Marvin did have a track record of being unstable, especially around the time he made the statement. He also regularly got high while laying down vocals, so that also played a role in his recollections too.

The Apollo story also sealed the deal for me. If Tammi wasn’t keen about being replaced on stage, she would have pitched a fit if they tried to replace her in the studio, even if it was a close friend like Val. The way I see it, Valerie assisted, not replaced Tammi on the album.

[SatansBlues]

That wasn't Valerie lol

I'm also not totally convinced anymore that Valerie subbed for Tammi for the "Easy" album. I saw that Unsung and Valerie explained it thoroughly what went down. Marvin probably was so angry about the situation and probably thought Motown was forcing Tammi to sing [[despite Berry Gordy reportedly paying the hospital bills) that he felt guilty of seeing Tammi be a victim of the industry, which is how he interpreted it.

Plus, when you're on drugs as he was, your mind gets all cloudy... plus how was she still able to sing near the end of her life? She sang with Marvin at the Apollo in November '69, just right before she died, so I can believe she did sing all those songs.

But anyway, I know she sang YAINTGB all the way.

Let me clarify, at the beginning of the song, I believe that it's Tammi singing, but at the 1:20 mark, it sounds like Valerie Simpson to me for the rest of the song. I know this topic has been talked about in the past, but here are a couple other reasons why I think VS subbed in for an ailing TT.
1. Between the time TT collapsed on stage with Marvin until the time of her death TT had NINE different brain operation. NINE. I cannot imagine what that was like, but what condition would she have been in to travel to Detroit to record?
2. If you listen to all of TT's solo material then you have a great sense of her voice and the nuances of her voice. According to her Motown Anthology Tammi stopped recording solo material in Oct/November 1967, there are no solo recordings after that date.
3. In an interview with Ebony magazine published in late 1969 TT states that she had not been in Detroit for over a year in a half!
4 Why would Marvin lie about TT not being on the recordings? What would he have to gain?
5. Look at the number of solo songs that TT recorded that later were made into duets with Marvin, especially on the Easy album.
6. Valerie Simpson has been very cagey about subbing in for an ailing TT, saying that she only provided a vocal guide for TT, but again I ask the question, why would Marvin Gaye lie about what happened? What would he stand to gain from this?

[midnightman]

Let me clarify, at the beginning of the song, I believe that it's Tammi singing, but at the 1:20 mark, it sounds like Valerie Simpson to me for the rest of the song. I know this topic has been talked about in the past, but here are a couple other reasons why I think VS subbed in for an ailing TT.
1. Between the time TT collapsed on stage with Marvin until the time of her death TT had NINE different brain operation. NINE. I cannot imagine what that was like, but what condition would she have been in to travel to Detroit to record?
2. If you listen to all of TT's solo material then you have a great sense of her voice and the nuances of her voice. According to her Motown Anthology Tammi stopped recording solo material in Oct/November 1967, there are no solo recordings after that date.
3. In an interview with Ebony magazine published in late 1969 TT states that she had not been in Detroit for over a year in a half!
4 Why would Marvin lie about TT not being on the recordings? What would he have to gain?
5. Look at the number of solo songs that TT recorded that later were made into duets with Marvin, especially on the Easy album.
6. Valerie Simpson has been very cagey about subbing in for an ailing TT, saying that she only provided a vocal guide for TT, but again I ask the question, why would Marvin Gaye lie about what happened? What would he stand to gain from this?

I'm not saying Marvin lied. I think for the most part, he told the truth. Valerie did do guide vocals with him but they would always bring in Tammi. I think both Marvin and Valerie told the truth.

Here's how I now see it:
Marvin would be brought in to sing with Valerie.

Valerie in turn would bring Tammi in the studio when she was able and have her record over her guide vocal.

Also, her ninth operation came in January 1970 [[the final one was not to get rid of the cancerous tumor but to alleviate Tammi's pain and suffering, afterwards, she relapsed into a coma and died that March). The most consecutive operations she had were 6 and all occurred between October 1967 and fall 1968. The other two must've been after the "Easy" sessions.

Also, yeah, Tammi didn't record anymore solo recordings. She didn't have that much energy to do anything else anymore especially after so many operations. BUT I do believe Tammi willed herself to finish the "Easy" sessions. It wasn't easy but she was able to do it. How else did she find the strength to not only come to the Apollo Theater in November 1969 and sing with Marvin while she sat with the audience?

So to clarify, I'm not saying Marvin lied. But I'm also saying Valerie Simpson didn't lie. They both told the truth. Marvin was too bitter about how Motown was carrying on with M&T records while Tammi was understandably sick. Tammi and Marvin weren't present in the studio at the same time in the "Easy" sessions as they had been for the songs "Your Precious Love", "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing", "You've Got What It Takes" and "You're All I Need to Get By" and when Tammi got too sick to do any new songs on "Easy", they had Marvin vocally overdub on some of Tammi's solo recordings.

I blame David Ritz for this. He misinterpreted what Marvin told him. David Ritz is why all this confusion happened.

[SatansBlues]

[QUOTE=midnightman;582712]I'm not saying Marvin lied. I think for the most part, he told the truth. Valerie did do guide vocals with him but they would always bring in Tammi. I think both Marvin and Valerie told the truth.

Here's how I now see it:
Marvin would be brought in to sing with Valerie.

Valerie in turn would bring Tammi in the studio when she was able and have her record over her guide vocal.

Also, her ninth operation came in January 1970 [[the final one was not to get rid of the cancerous tumor but to alleviate Tammi's pain and suffering, afterwards, she relapsed into a coma and died that March). The most consecutive operations she had were 6 and all occurred between October 1967 and fall 1968. The other two must've been after the "Easy" sessions.

Also, yeah, Tammi didn't record anymore solo recordings. She didn't have that much energy to do anything else anymore especially after so many operations. BUT I do believe Tammi willed herself to finish the "Easy" sessions. It wasn't easy but she was able to do it. How else did she find the strength to not only come to the Apollo Theater in November 1969 and sing with Marvin while she sat with the audience?

So to clarify, I'm not saying Marvin lied. But I'm also saying Valerie Simpson didn't lie. They both told the truth. Marvin was too bitter about how Motown was carrying on with M&T records while Tammi was understandably sick. Tammi and Marvin weren't present in the studio at the same time in the "Easy" sessions as they had been for the songs "Your Precious Love", "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing", "You've Got What It Takes" and "You're All I Need to Get By" and when Tammi got too sick to do any new songs on "Easy", they had Marvin vocally overdub on some of Tammi's solo recordings.

I blame David Ritz for this. He misinterpreted what Marvin told him. David Ritz is why all this confusion happened.[/Q



Marvin explains to David Ritz what happened with Tammi and Valerie and actually pulls out the Easy album and plays it for him and talks about the tracks that Tammi is singing on and the tracks that Valerie is singing on! Again, I do not doubt the veracity of Marvin's statements, weed or not. Marvin states why he went along with this because Berry Gordy convinced him that it would help provide income to TT. Motown was successful at using background singers [[Andantes) for ALL of the "girl groups", including the Supremes. Why would Motown be above replacing Tammi Terrell?

I heard directly from a former SD member who heard the actual tapes where Tammi was attempting to sing and they walked away convinced that it was Valerie singing on those duets and described TT's voice as very frail and weak and no way possible that she was able to sing those duets with Marvin.

Lastly, Motown recorded their artists not just in Detroit, but also Chicago, NYC and Los Angeles, why would they have an ailing TT travel all the way to Detroit to record and not in Philly to record while she was under treatment and recovery?

[midnightman]

[QUOTE=SatansBlues;582754]

I'm not saying Marvin lied. I think for the most part, he told the truth. Valerie did do guide vocals with him but they would always bring in Tammi. I think both Marvin and Valerie told the truth.

Here's how I now see it:
Marvin would be brought in to sing with Valerie.

Valerie in turn would bring Tammi in the studio when she was able and have her record over her guide vocal.

Also, her ninth operation came in January 1970 [[the final one was not to get rid of the cancerous tumor but to alleviate Tammi's pain and suffering, afterwards, she relapsed into a coma and died that March). The most consecutive operations she had were 6 and all occurred between October 1967 and fall 1968. The other two must've been after the "Easy" sessions.

Also, yeah, Tammi didn't record anymore solo recordings. She didn't have that much energy to do anything else anymore especially after so many operations. BUT I do believe Tammi willed herself to finish the "Easy" sessions. It wasn't easy but she was able to do it. How else did she find the strength to not only come to the Apollo Theater in November 1969 and sing with Marvin while she sat with the audience?

So to clarify, I'm not saying Marvin lied. But I'm also saying Valerie Simpson didn't lie. They both told the truth. Marvin was too bitter about how Motown was carrying on with M&T records while Tammi was understandably sick. Tammi and Marvin weren't present in the studio at the same time in the "Easy" sessions as they had been for the songs "Your Precious Love", "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing", "You've Got What It Takes" and "You're All I Need to Get By" and when Tammi got too sick to do any new songs on "Easy", they had Marvin vocally overdub on some of Tammi's solo recordings.

I blame David Ritz for this. He misinterpreted what Marvin told him. David Ritz is why all this confusion happened.[/Q



Marvin explains to David Ritz what happened with Tammi and Valerie and actually pulls out the Easy album and plays it for him and talks about the tracks that Tammi is singing on and the tracks that Valerie is singing on! Again, I do not doubt the veracity of Marvin's statements, weed or not. Marvin states why he went along with this because Berry Gordy convinced him that it would help provide income to TT. Motown was successful at using background singers [[Andantes) for ALL of the "girl groups", including the Supremes. Why would Motown be above replacing Tammi Terrell?

I heard directly from a former SD member who heard the actual tapes where Tammi was attempting to sing and they walked away convinced that it was Valerie singing on those duets and described TT's voice as very frail and weak and no way possible that she was able to sing those duets with Marvin.

Lastly, Motown recorded their artists not just in Detroit, but also Chicago, NYC and Los Angeles, why would they have an ailing TT travel all the way to Detroit to record and not in Philly to record while she was under treatment and recovery?

It would be interesting if we can get these audio tapes? Doubt Berry would want these to come out if they exist. I did read that part of the book where Marvin played the songs from "Easy" to David...