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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    Reposting in case some have forgotten it.
    Oh yes. I searched for years to find the video clip of this show. I know it exists because they have recently opened the vaults to the Merv Griffin Show going back to the mid 60s.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    Reposting in case some have forgotten it.
    Thanks for posting, been a while since I have heard this. Marv was such a big fan of the ladies.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Thanks for posting, been a while since I have heard this. Marv was such a big fan of the ladies.
    I think you meant Merv!

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I think you meant Merv!
    ... actually one hears that Merv wasn't such a big fan of the ladies ... (Don't need no Mapquest; WENT THERE!! )

  5. #55
    Automatically Sunshine had a light, contemporary feel with lyrics that were cute without being cutesy; sometimes Smokey tried too hard to be clever with his rhymes, and the results were cloying, but his restraint on this song (unlike, for instance, the lack of discipline he showed on Floy Joy, where he settled on simplistic, non-conversational, unnatural phrases that popped into his mind and distracted from the storyline) was admirable. Too, the back-and-forth lead vocals and the blend of voices in the go-for-it finale kept the song fresh and interesting from start to finish. And it was a great song to hear on the radio while driving, perhaps singing along, feeling optimistic and joyful.

    The album was 66.67% rewarding, but Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love, Floy Joy and Oh Be My Love were tiresome. The addition of Smokey's voice on the first, the lyrics that seemed nonsensical on the second and the drifting, free-form feel of the third were difficult to listen to more than once or twice. The other six songs presented a great mix of classic Motown, a pure, gentle sound and a modern, unexpected maturity that suggested the group could move forward, fitting in with and at times leading the newer performers in the new decade.

    Their Merv Griffin show interpretation of Where You Lead, on the other hand, pointed to the difficulties to come. Jean rushed through it, veering into and out of the actual melody, over and over again, and with all the racing about, she, Mary and Cindy didn't seem at all committed to the lyrics. The performance presaged the group's deranged, disengaged shows in the later years, when it was all fake smiles even during the sad or serious songs, frenetic dancing that had nothing to do with the point of the song and fighting duels where the last three members tried to be lead singers simultaneously, each going in a different direction at a different tempo in a different key sometimes, forgetting that the audience wanted sincere, compelling renditions of the story lines, not a lot of screeching noise and silly movement that meant nothing.

  6. #56
    Ben - very interesting review there. love hearing everyone's specific opinions on material

    I agree with adding Smokey's voice to YWSSL was a big mistake. especially using a vocal that seems so odd sounding. it's not like he's clearly singing along with the girls. Now the idea of him and Jean doing a duet, like what she and Jimmy did is compelling. Provided M and C also sang with them. but i think that really tanked the song

    FJ wasn't a fav of mine but i've grown to like it more. It is most definitely silly. I think it would have been aided by Cindy having a few lines to sing too. Then you have all 3 girls chirping away about some hot lover man that, while they know he's a player, they can't resist. Definitely not the most feminist statement lolol. and especially after Jean had just told Nathan Jones to go jump in a lake! lol

    AS is a song i really like. always include on playlists. it's just catchy, hypnotic. groovy lol. and i just ADORE Cindy's little adlibs. I know they're not much but her delivery and persona in the group was just sexy. very sultry and Marilyn Monroe-esque. I think they could have played that up a little more on some recordings and given her a bit more exposure.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by benross View Post
    Their Merv Griffin show interpretation of Where You Lead, on the other hand, pointed to the difficulties to come. Jean rushed through it, veering into and out of the actual melody, over and over again, and with all the racing about, she, Mary and Cindy didn't seem at all committed to the lyrics. The performance presaged the group's deranged, disengaged shows in the later years, when it was all fake smiles even during the sad or serious songs, frenetic dancing that had nothing to do with the point of the song and fighting duels where the last three members tried to be lead singers simultaneously, each going in a different direction at a different tempo in a different key sometimes, forgetting that the audience wanted sincere, compelling renditions of the story lines, not a lot of screeching noise and silly movement that meant nothing.
    this is a VERY valid point. I love Jean's singing - most of the time. my problem is that often she would sacrifice the melody of the song for vocal workouts and gymnastics. I think the worse example of this was her rendition of Stoned Love on the Live Japan lp. Stoned Love is so magical because there's such an amazing story being told through the lyric. it's almost the total opposite of a fluff song like FJ. the melody and words of SL are critical to it and so when she's going off on endless mumbles and ad libs, it's lost. You're already dealing with the huge disadvantage of not having all of the bells and whistles of a studio to bring the whole song together. her vocal just destroyed that live version for me

  8. #58
    benross...you bring up some good points.

    YWSSL was a good song, and Jeans vocal is exciting, passionate and enthusiastic....Smokey's overtones ruin it for me....had the mix brought up the latin tinged percussion, and eliminating SR's interference (!) the song may have had a chance. I am surprised a version similar to the one I described doesn't exist.
    FLOY JOY was said to be a 60's throwback vibe...some note a likeness to Come See About Me...I didn't get that at the time, and I liked the song, but it clearly wasn't in the same ballpark as Ladder and Stoned Love. Once I got the 70's Rare Classics CD the unedited version made the song grow on me a lot more.
    OH BE MY LOVE fits right in with the rest of the LP fine....it blends the softness of much of the LP with the psychedelic tinge of Now The Bitter....which IMHO would have fit better in the New Ways song line up.

    I have to agree totally with your assessment of the last line ups live work. I wish Cindy would have stayed...the MSC blend was beautiful and well balanced. Everyone knew their place, and the roles complimented each other.

    The studio LP MSS was a good one....live, there are very few moments I enjoy....High Energy from the Swiss show is excellent. Maybe This Time and The Way We Were worked...that's about it for me with live work from MSS...

    Every grouping following Florence's departure's live work suffered the same problems...too many rushed paced songs in the act, and often too much brass, not enough identification with the recorded versions.

  9. #59
    Smokey on "Wonderful" is what always turned me off. But I think the song didn't go as far as it could've because the track itself needed punching up. It's a song that had the potential to blare from radios like crazy, but it sounds as if it's held back somehow. "Floy Joy" and "Automatically" worked because it held a "less is more" vibe. "Wonderful" doesn't work because it sort of moves in the same way when it really shouldn't.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I think you meant Merv!
    Lol! Staying inside is finally getting to me!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    benross...you bring up some good points.


    OH BE MY LOVE fits right in with the rest of the LP fine....it blends the softness of much of the LP with the psychedelic tinge of Now The Bitter....which IMHO would have fit better in the New Ways song line up.
    interesting idea - i view NW as more of a rock opera approach and album. yes there's some psychedelic influences, wah wah guitar, the synthesizers. But the productions are mostly big, heavy. lots going on. I think Time and Love would have worked better on NW than Touch. Life Beats could have fit on there too. I find the FJ songs too frothy and light to fit on the NW album

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    interesting idea - i view NW as more of a rock opera approach and album. yes there's some psychedelic influences, wah wah guitar, the synthesizers. But the productions are mostly big, heavy. lots going on. I think Time and Love would have worked better on NW than Touch. Life Beats could have fit on there too. I find the FJ songs too frothy and light to fit on the NW album
    I hate Time an Love so much... wish it was on the Webb LP so I wouldn't have to skip it! I only play the first 2 tracks on side 1 of that LP

  13. #63
    Automatically Sunshine perfectly fits that commercial! I love it. The song sounds a bit more upbeat and cheerful than the original.
    I've used the Merv Griffin performance ones to add Cindy to the original track (FLoy Joy) and see what it sounds like. But because of the bad quality it sounded pretty bad but I still love it. Maybe someone out there is able to get a clearer recording of the Merv Gr performance and mix it with the single version.
    As for Stoned Love live which sup-fan mentioned, I don't like the live in Japan version either. There was a live version from 1972 somewhere on youtube which was much better. Also the central park performance from 1971 was really good. I think with the live in Japan version the drum is not prominent enough after Jean's intro bit.
    Back to Automatically Sunshine. Love to hear a live version!

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    I hate Time an Love so much... wish it was on the Webb LP so I wouldn't have to skip it! I only play the first 2 tracks on side 1 of that LP
    i've never been a huge fan of it either and always skip it. only just recently came up with the idea of moving it to NW and i did a playlist using it:

    Together
    Stoned
    Time
    Bridge
    Mirror

    Time and Love
    Is there a place
    life beats
    shine on me
    thank him

    to be honest, the big brassy production sort of works. does it make me now love the song - of course not. but the religious touches to some of the lyrics and the huge backing track a least allow it to be less conspicuous than on the much more subdued Touch lp

  15. #65
    sometimes on youtube there are the bootlegs to the Valley Forge show with MJL in Aug or Sept 72. yes it's much better there

    and the tv performance of MJL on Mike Douglas was strong too. interestingly enough, they did a live performance of the LP version of the song. not the shorter typical live version. jean makes a couple minor glitches with the song since she'd been singing it live for so long another way but covers it beautifully.

  16. #66
    In regards it the SL performance in Mike Douglas, I do find it interesting that Mary’s vocals seems to dominate Almost everyone else’s vocals.
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    sometimes on youtube there are the bootlegs to the Valley Forge show with MJL in Aug or Sept 72. yes it's much better there

    and the tv performance of MJL on Mike Douglas was strong too. interestingly enough, they did a live performance of the LP version of the song. not the shorter typical live version. jean makes a couple minor glitches with the song since she'd been singing it live for so long another way but covers it beautifully.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    In regards it the SL performance in Mike Douglas, I do find it interesting that Mary’s vocals seems to dominate Almost everyone else’s vocals.
    I noticed that too. Her dancing was also more pronounced. Mary was really selling it! LOL!

  18. #68
    there is a live performance clip of Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love and it is at breakneck pace....and Jean flubs the lyrics....all and all in retrospect, musically, the studio recordings are far superior to the live performances of every line up. Vocally as pleasing as some of the live work is, the speed and overuse of brass kill it for me most of the time

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    there is a live performance clip of Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love and it is at breakneck pace....and Jean flubs the lyrics....all and all in retrospect, musically, the studio recordings are far superior to the live performances of every line up. Vocally as pleasing as some of the live work is, the speed and overuse of brass kill it for me most of the time
    I never cared for those hits medley's directed by Gil Askey or Teddy Harris. I believe all three active Supremes related acts (Mary, Diana, and the Flos) have stopped using them in their current acts.

  20. #70
    The original commercial did have the Supremes version and helped the lp Supremes Love go top ten.
    I actually like the Floy Joy album but as already stated to much Jean .not enough Cindy....and I would have done a better mix on YWSSL. Could been huge. I like the Latin feel idea. Surprised some of these haven't been remixed.
    I actually think a Supremes 70 remix album is in order.

  21. #71
    I love the sound of brass.

    The Latin feel is throwback Smokey. (It's also present on "Precious", sounds like to me.) Had he played it up even more on "Wonderful", it may have been that extra thing it needed.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I love the sound of brass.

    The Latin feel is throwback Smokey. (It's also present on "Precious", sounds like to me.) Had he played it up even more on "Wonderful", it may have been that extra thing it needed.
    I think you are spot on. To me, the album is pleasant but somehow lacks any 'X factor'. It's almost instantly forgettable when it's over. It reminds me a little of the Marvelettes' "In Full Bloom," in that many of the songs seem to have the same mood and arrangement, but on "Bloom" the songs were much more complex and interesting to begin with than those on "Floy Joy."

    I know "Floy Joy" seems to be a favorite Supremes 70s album of many, but I like "Jimmy Webb," most people's least favorite Jean-era lineup LP, much better than this one.

  23. #73
    many pre '65 Motown songs were Cha Cha rhythm...to mention some, Miracles /Mary Wells early hits, Marvelettes Strange I Know & Someday Someway, Martha's A Love Like Yours, Supreme's...Your Heart Belongs to Me, Breath Taking Guy....my personal favs are Supremes I'm Giving You Your Freedom and Marin & Mary's Once Upon A Time

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I think you are spot on. To me, the album is pleasant but somehow lacks any 'X factor'. It's almost instantly forgettable when it's over. It reminds me a little of the Marvelettes' "In Full Bloom," in that many of the songs seem to have the same mood and arrangement, but on "Bloom" the songs were much more complex and interesting to begin with than those on "Floy Joy."

    I know "Floy Joy" seems to be a favorite Supremes 70s album of many, but I like "Jimmy Webb," most people's least favorite Jean-era lineup LP, much better than this one.
    it's always fun comparing notes and thoughts on the songs. i agree that the sound and approach to FJ is very VERY unified. and as you said, that can lead to monotony and blandness. some of the FJ songs are standouts IMO but perhaps the lp works more as a whole than as individual songs.

    if you look at another fav of mine, MS&S, the variety of the songs (while still having some shared core sounds and productions) allows it to be both an interesting and engaging complete set but also with many of the tunes standing along very well

    a good litmus test might be - how many songs from an lp do you put on a mixed tape or playlist?

  25. #75
    I had forgotten all about that commercial. Happy days. Thanks Marv.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by copley View Post
    I had forgotten all about that commercial. Happy days. Thanks Marv.
    You're welcome Copley!

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it's always fun comparing notes and thoughts on the songs. i agree that the sound and approach to FJ is very VERY unified. and as you said, that can lead to monotony and blandness. some of the FJ songs are standouts IMO but perhaps the lp works more as a whole than as individual songs.

    if you look at another fav of mine, MS&S, the variety of the songs (while still having some shared core sounds and productions) allows it to be both an interesting and engaging complete set but also with many of the tunes standing along very well

    a good litmus test might be - how many songs from an lp do you put on a mixed tape or playlist?
    I totally agree with you that "Mary, Scherrie and Susaye" was an excellent LP and seems to have been even more underrated over the years and dismissed as a disco effort and nothing more. I think it was a great LP, but I found the single "Let Yourself Go" a very pedestrian dance track. I loved the first single "You're My Driving Wheel," as well as some of the unusual tracks such as the standout "Come Into My Life," which has always sounded to me like a George Clinton/Parlet song. Other standouts were "Sweet Dream Machine," "We Should Be Closer Together" (great vocal by Mary), and "I Don't Want to be Tied Down," which Scherrie belts out in her most showstopping style.

  28. #78
    lol see i think Let Yourself Go is an amazing dance track. much more exciting and should have been the follow up to Walking. then perhaps Wheel. or then maybe, assuming LYG had done well, venture into some of the more non traditional tracks. LIke Dream Machine.

    but the whole album is wonderful and one i listen to often

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