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  1. #1

    Mary Wilson and Lamont Dozier -The Story of Stop! In The Name Of Love

    This is hilarious! LOL!


  2. #2
    Mary didn't know their vocals were replaced!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by IMissFlo93 View Post
    Mary didn't know their vocals were replaced!
    That's because they weren't. We've been over this 100 times already.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    That's because they weren't. We've been over this 100 times already.
    It has been said that the released hit 45 single did not have Mary or Florence.

  5. #5
    Marv i agree - i don't think M and F were removed from the backgrounds. I think the Andantes were added. they probably wanted a bigger sound to give the record more authority. Also on the very early versions of the song, the backgrounds don't sing the Ahhhhs during the verses. When they added the Andantes, my guess is that they decided to fill in that gap.

    My thoughts on who's singing what:

    Chorus - everyone is singing
    Baby, baby (during the verses) - M and F, perhaps andantes joining them
    Ahhhh (portion of the verses) - i think this is just the andantes
    Think It over - everyone i believe

  6. #6
    A real fun video to watch.Thanks Marv

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    A real fun video to watch.Thanks Marv
    You are most welcome theboyfromxtown!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Marv i agree - i don't think M and F were removed from the backgrounds. I think the Andantes were added. they probably wanted a bigger sound to give the record more authority. Also on the very early versions of the song, the backgrounds don't sing the Ahhhhs during the verses. When they added the Andantes, my guess is that they decided to fill in that gap.

    My thoughts on who's singing what:

    Chorus - everyone is singing
    Baby, baby (during the verses) - M and F, perhaps andantes joining them
    Ahhhh (portion of the verses) - i think this is just the andantes
    Think It over - everyone i believe
    I don't even think the people from Motown breaks this stuff down like it is done here, hehehehehehehehe! But yes Mary and Florence and Diane are all singing on "Stop In The Love".

  9. #9
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    M and F were not on the released version of Stop. This is according to Andy on Johns radio show. I heard it with my own ears. Andy also said Mary’s fans will be unhappy to know this.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    It has been said that the released hit 45 single did not have Mary or Florence.

    George Solomon
    George Solomon is offline Senior Member

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    I'm going to jump in for a minute. (And hope I don't regret it) The fact is Mary and Flo sang the first version of "Stop" with no augmentation. The second (released) version features Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Some parts they're all singing together. Some parts it's just Mary and Flo and some parts it's just Andantes. If you listen carefully you can break it down.



    Ok now go back to sleep.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    M and F were not on the released version of Stop. This is according to Andy on Johns radio show. I heard it with my own ears. Andy also said Mary’s fans will be unhappy to know this.
    Ask Andy again......

  12. #12
    I don't know which "version" this is, but that is Mary Wilson, Florence Ballard and Diana Ross singing:



    Vocals: The Supremes
    - Lead: Diana Ross
    - Backing: Florence Ballard, Mary Wilson & The Andantes
    Producer(s): Brian Holland & Lamont Dozier (of Holland-Dozier-Holland)
    Writer(s): Holland-Dozier-Holland
    Musician(s): The Funk Brothers
    Released: February 8, 1965 (US)
    Recorded: Hitsville USA (Studio A); January 5, January 7, and January 11, 1965
    Last edited by marv2; 11-04-2019 at 07:09 PM.

  13. #13
    George has confirmed that Mary, Florence and the Andantes are on the released version. That should put this old canard to bed completely!

  14. #14
    But you know it won’t some can’t except it.
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    George has confirmed that Mary, Florence and the Andantes are on the released version. That should put this old canard to bed completely!

  15. #15
    Oh heavens, is it George or is it Andy or is it the many versions?

    I heard they didn't want to talk about it anymore because it had caused the first orgasm in an age for a couple people - but that should have been a good thing.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Oh heavens, is it George or is it Andy or is it the many versions?

    I heard they didn't want to talk about it anymore because it had caused the first orgasm in an age for a couple people - but that should have been a good thing.
    You're just going to have to live with the sad (to you) truth that the Supremes are singing on their own records! "Curses.....Foiled Again" huh? LOL!!!!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    because it had caused the first orgasm in an age for a couple people
    Isn't that a more appropriate discussion for the "Touch Me in the Morning" thread?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    Isn't that a more appropriate discussion for the "Touch Me in the Morning" thread?
    And this is why I love Thanxal!!!

  19. #19
    Genuine Supremes fans should be glad to learn that the original Supremes, even with additional vocal accompaniment, are on not only one of the group's biggest hits, not even just one of Motown's most famous, but one of the most legendary and iconic songs in the history of music. For those of you who aren't as thrilled, you'll always have "Some Things You Never Get Used To" to grin about.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ranran79 View Post
    genuine supremes fans should be glad to learn that the original supremes, even with additional vocal accompaniment, are on not only one of the group's biggest hits, not even just one of motown's most famous, but one of the most legendary and iconic songs in the history of music. For those of you who aren't as thrilled, you'll always have "some things you never get used to" to grin about.
    stop! Lol!!!!!@

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    And this is why I love Thanxal!!!
    Right back at cha!

  22. #22
    And this is what Andy said! How convenient of you to not post this from the archives! Now you can go back to sleep!

    Motown Andy said:
    12-26-2011 06:20 PM
    The Supremes story is a very complicated one, and when discussing who sang on which records, it is sensitive not only to the Supremes, but to the Andantes, and to the fans. What we report may be loved by many, and in some situations, may not be popular, but it is always important that we tell the truth. Our motivation is that of preserving the Supremes legacy, not diminishing it. If we report a kind word about one Supreme, Mary, Flo or Diana, it is often misconstrued as a slap to the other two ladies. On any project I work on, I can assure you that this is not, and will never be the case. I support them, and I love them, both professionally and personally.

    There’s a recent thread about what songs are Tammi Terrell, and what songs are Valerie Simpson. The thread is long and the argument is interesting, but the truth can be found in the research, and in listening to the isolated vocals on the multi-tracks. However, the answers we could give, in the Tammi scenario, in the Supremes scenario, or in other artists scenarios may not be what fans want to hear. I’d rather tell the truth, for myself, and for an accurate history, than to be popular. And at the end of the day, all I can do is present the facts, even if they are conflicting, and if there is no clear answer, the listener can be the judge. Sometimes we have an answer, sometimes we don’t.

    The Supremes/Andantes situation does exist, but it has absolutely been blown out of proportion. The Supremes background vocals by Mary and Flo, are on most of their records leading up to Flo’s departure. But there are some they are not on, pure and simple. Mary Wilson has acknowledged this, Florence Ballard in interviews acknowledged this, Diana Ross has acknowledged this.

    As one learns the Supremes voices, it becomes more clear when you hear them. Once you learn the Andantes voices, the picture comes right into focus. And if you’re lucky enough to see the Motown session logs and tape cards, or get to hear the isolated vocals, there becomes no doubt when you hear the Supremes, the Andantes, or both.

    When I am asked, I often give fans one example to listen to. There are many, but here is my favorite one. Listen to the Supremes version of “Fancy Passes” (issued on Never-Before-Released-Masters and the same version is the bonus track version issued on There’s A Place For Us). Mary and Flo have a spoken passage. If you know their voices from this song, you’ll also know that when you hear the same spoken passage in the Barbara McNair version, that those girls are the Andantes. Listen to the same parts, learn the two different sets of vocals. Now go listen to other Supremes songs you may have in question.

    Stop! In The Name Of Love is the latest hot topic, so I’ll acknowledge it here. Listen to the alternate from disc 2 of More Hits, also in a different mix on the box set. Now listen to the live versions on At The Copa, or the video from the Hollywood Palace. They are all consistent. Now listen to the released “hit” version. The voice you are hearing, is Jackie Hicks. Go back to McNair’s Fancy Passes, you’ll hear Jackie there. You’ll hear her on Run Run Run. But you’ll also hear her clearly on Ask The Lonely by the Four Tops, I Heard It Through The Grapevine by Marvin Gaye and dozens of other non-Supremes songs

    I’m sure that regardless of what I could say, some will argue forever. I respect everyone’s opinions. But, it is what it is. More importantly, this is not the first time this information has been suggested, discussed or challenged. Nor will it be the last. I can only confirm what I know.

    This does not, and will not tarnish the Supremes reputation as the greatest female group of all-time. The roads they paved for others must be acknowledged and respected. What they accomplished has never been duplicated.

    I’ll save the discussion about every other Supremes song for another day. If they weren’t on a particular song, well, it is what it is. They’re still on literally hundreds of other songs. Mary Wilson is still singing these hits today, Diana Ross is still singing this hits today. Diana and Mary’s legacies separately, and together as the Supremes, with Florence (and Cindy, respectfully) will last long after we’re all gone. I personally love them, they are incredible women. The people I work with love them too, as I know all of you do as well. I have nothing but love and respect for each of these ladies, for all nine of them actually, and will continue to support what they did, and continue to do. I hope you will also.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Oh heavens, is it George or is it Andy or is it the many versions?

    I heard they didn't want to talk about it anymore because it had caused the first orgasm in an age for a couple people - but that should have been a good thing.
    So true. We’re not making this stuff up. It was said on Nightflight. And it is also on print in the expanded edition. I don’t know why some people get so upset it’s still a great record just like Someday we’ll be together and Love child.

  24. #24
    I wasn't around for Andy's statement on "Stop", so I was taken aback by assertions in the forum, from some, that Flo and Mary aren't on "Stop". I was sure I hear Florence. To learn that Andy had made this statement, while it was hard to deny what my ears hear, I was man enough to concede to someone like Andy, whom I consider somewhat of an expert because of what he has access to, and chalk "Stop" up to a very likely Diana and Andantes song. When George chimed in fairly recently with the news that the song is a combo of Supremes and Andantes, I figured that he may have discovered something Andy had not. Again, like Andy, because of what George is privy to regarding the recorded work of the Supremes, I consider him as good an expert as any. And with the fantastic work that George and Andy have put into Supremes releases over the years- which I'm sure is a lot of hard work and not as much reward- it has never occurred to me that either of those men would lie to fans and potentially destroy any credibility they have amassed with most of us.

    So I said all that to ask this: is the suggestion, post George's statement, that he is lying about "Stop In the Name Of Love" featuring the original Supremes? Because there appears to be a segment of the forum that is disregarding George's recent statement in favor of a past statement from Andy. While it would be nice to get some clarity about the disparity regarding the backing vocals from two we've come to count on for factual information, it seems like in the wake of George's statement that there are indeed fans who are upset about this turn of events. Is it such a bitter pill to swallow that "Stop In the Name Of Love" is a great record even with the voices of Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson included? Or is it a more "feel good" moment to think that Diana is the only Supreme on the song? I really don't understand what's going on here and would like some clarity. I doubt I'll get it, but I'm officially placing it on my wish list.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I wasn't around for Andy's statement on "Stop", so I was taken aback by assertions in the forum, from some, that Flo and Mary aren't on "Stop". I was sure I hear Florence. To learn that Andy had made this statement, while it was hard to deny what my ears hear, I was man enough to concede to someone like Andy, whom I consider somewhat of an expert because of what he has access to, and chalk "Stop" up to a very likely Diana and Andantes song. When George chimed in fairly recently with the news that the song is a combo of Supremes and Andantes, I figured that he may have discovered something Andy had not. Again, like Andy, because of what George is privy to regarding the recorded work of the Supremes, I consider him as good an expert as any. And with the fantastic work that George and Andy have put into Supremes releases over the years- which I'm sure is a lot of hard work and not as much reward- it has never occurred to me that either of those men would lie to fans and potentially destroy any credibility they have amassed with most of us.

    So I said all that to ask this: is the suggestion, post George's statement, that he is lying about "Stop In the Name Of Love" featuring the original Supremes? Because there appears to be a segment of the forum that is disregarding George's recent statement in favor of a past statement from Andy. While it would be nice to get some clarity about the disparity regarding the backing vocals from two we've come to count on for factual information, it seems like in the wake of George's statement that there are indeed fans who are upset about this turn of events. Is it such a bitter pill to swallow that "Stop In the Name Of Love" is a great record even with the voices of Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson included? Or is it a more "feel good" moment to think that Diana is the only Supreme on the song? I really don't understand what's going on here and would like some clarity. I doubt I'll get it, but I'm officially placing it on my wish list.
    I agree RanRan. It doesn’t matter to me if Flo and Mary are on the record or not. I still love the record.
    I don’t know if we will ever get the clarity. They did say that they would not be discussing or including anything about the backgrounds on future expanded releases due to it upsetting so many fans. I believe whatever the experts tell me in George and Andy. I am just confused because now George’s statement differs from before and I respect that. When I listen to the record I imagine The Supremes no matter who is doing the backgrounds. However I enjoy the truth as well.

  26. #26
    Well I have to say I do love that initial Stop with whatever the instrument is that does that!

    Somebody should volunteer a sexual favour to Andy and George for the fine line they walk

  27. #27
    All three Supremes are on it. Sure the Andantes sung ONE part of the song. But all three original Supremes were singing on it.

    That's it.

  28. #28
    Personally speaking i couldn't give a rat's ass who is singing backing vocals on Stop in the name of love. It is the lead vocal from Diana that makes this record so very special to me. If Mary and Flo are on there that is great, but if not then it does not diminish the impact and quality of this iconic recording in any shape or form.

  29. #29
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    I found Lamont’s story either highly exaggerated or not true. It sounded like an invented story .... going out the bathroom window ..... etc etc etc

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I wasn't around for Andy's statement on "Stop", so I was taken aback by assertions in the forum, from some, that Flo and Mary aren't on "Stop". I was sure I hear Florence. To learn that Andy had made this statement, while it was hard to deny what my ears hear, I was man enough to concede to someone like Andy, whom I consider somewhat of an expert because of what he has access to, and chalk "Stop" up to a very likely Diana and Andantes song. When George chimed in fairly recently with the news that the song is a combo of Supremes and Andantes, I figured that he may have discovered something Andy had not. Again, like Andy, because of what George is privy to regarding the recorded work of the Supremes, I consider him as good an expert as any. And with the fantastic work that George and Andy have put into Supremes releases over the years- which I'm sure is a lot of hard work and not as much reward- it has never occurred to me that either of those men would lie to fans and potentially destroy any credibility they have amassed with most of us.

    So I said all that to ask this: is the suggestion, post George's statement, that he is lying about "Stop In the Name Of Love" featuring the original Supremes? Because there appears to be a segment of the forum that is disregarding George's recent statement in favor of a past statement from Andy. While it would be nice to get some clarity about the disparity regarding the backing vocals from two we've come to count on for factual information, it seems like in the wake of George's statement that there are indeed fans who are upset about this turn of events. Is it such a bitter pill to swallow that "Stop In the Name Of Love" is a great record even with the voices of Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson included? Or is it a more "feel good" moment to think that Diana is the only Supreme on the song? I really don't understand what's going on here and would like some clarity. I doubt I'll get it, but I'm officially placing it on my wish list.
    Ran, I recall the Nightflight interview very well. Andy was being quite "diplomatic" on that show because he knew the carnage his words would prompt. Key to his post below are these words:
    And if you’re lucky enough to see the Motown session logs and tape cards, or get to hear the isolated vocals, there becomes no doubt when you hear the Supremes, the Andantes, or both.

    Andy never says Mary and Flo weren't on Stop, just that others were on it. The second paragraph following that statement is where he discussed Jackie Hicks, simply saying she's on it. It would have been at that point he would have added "Flo and/or Mary are not". But he didn't. The backgrounds have clearly been "sweetened" with additional voices.

    You know as well as I do that this really has nothing to do with Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard. We have a couple of people around here who are giant jackasses and much of the fighting about these issues are simply proxy fights between camps with longstanding animosities. They project their personalities largely through Diana or Mary and pick fights based on 60 fucking year old received grievances. My response: OK boomer.

  31. #31
    LOL boomers are upset with that.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    LOL boomers are upset with that.
    I'm shocked.

  33. #33
    I always said they never actually said that Mary and Flo were not on it. Just that the Andantes are there too. I think a lot of the crazy Diana fans just like to twist it around to jab at the crazy Mary fans.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I wasn't around for Andy's statement on "Stop", so I was taken aback by assertions in the forum, from some, that Flo and Mary aren't on "Stop". I was sure I hear Florence. To learn that Andy had made this statement, while it was hard to deny what my ears hear, I was man enough to concede to someone like Andy, whom I consider somewhat of an expert because of what he has access to, and chalk "Stop" up to a very likely Diana and Andantes song. When George chimed in fairly recently with the news that the song is a combo of Supremes and Andantes, I figured that he may have discovered something Andy had not. Again, like Andy, because of what George is privy to regarding the recorded work of the Supremes, I consider him as good an expert as any. And with the fantastic work that George and Andy have put into Supremes releases over the years- which I'm sure is a lot of hard work and not as much reward- it has never occurred to me that either of those men would lie to fans and potentially destroy any credibility they have amassed with most of us.

    So I said all that to ask this: is the suggestion, post George's statement, that he is lying about "Stop In the Name Of Love" featuring the original Supremes? Because there appears to be a segment of the forum that is disregarding George's recent statement in favor of a past statement from Andy. While it would be nice to get some clarity about the disparity regarding the backing vocals from two we've come to count on for factual information, it seems like in the wake of George's statement that there are indeed fans who are upset about this turn of events. Is it such a bitter pill to swallow that "Stop In the Name Of Love" is a great record even with the voices of Florence Ballard and Mary Wilson included? Or is it a more "feel good" moment to think that Diana is the only Supreme on the song? I really don't understand what's going on here and would like some clarity. I doubt I'll get it, but I'm officially placing it on my wish list.
    It's this simple. Those guys love Diana Ross like crazy. They want to believe that Diana Ross was "The Supremes",(I think RTL completely ruled that out), so they do all that they can to try to belittle and disregard the contributions of Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard. They don't want Mary and Flo on the records! LOL!!!! Too late, they are on them and have always been on the recordings. They said Florence was not on "My World Is Empty Without You" and I posted a video recently where Flo even says at the end of the recording "Let's hear that back!". Listen to Flo at the end of this recording .

    Last edited by marv2; 11-05-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  35. #35
    In the video I posted above, you have two of the principles that were in the studio when "Stop In the Name of Love" was recorded. Neither of them say the Supremes were not on it, because the thought would not cross their minds because it isn't true.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I always said they never actually said that Mary and Flo were not on it. Just that the Andantes are there too. I think a lot of the crazy Diana fans just like to twist it around to jab at the crazy Mary fans.
    Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

  37. #37
    I think what I like about this interview was the first 20 seconds whereas Mary says that you have (5) five different people with (5) different perspectives. This has always been the way it as been with the Supremes and I am afraid it will always be this way even with the songs.

  38. #38
    Well I guess it’s how you interpret what they are saying. In the booklet of Diana Ross and the Supremes 50th anniversary “The singles collection”. Sorry I don’t know how to add a picture of what it says. But I will type here exactly what it says and you can interpret it the way you want. “Quote” “Diana, Mary and Florence recorded the song but 4 days later the tune was RE-CUT with the Andantes. This became the released version that received a Grammy nomination for Best Contemporary Rock & Roll Performance by a group. It lost to “Flowers on the wall” by the Statler Brothers.” “ End of Quote”.
    So I guess, the question would be what does Re-Cut mean? Why didn’t they just say it was remixed and the Andantes were added four days later ?

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    Well I guess it’s how you interpret what they are saying. In the booklet of Diana Ross and the Supremes 50th anniversary “The singles collection”. Sorry I don’t know how to add a picture of what it says. But I will type here exactly what it says and you can interpret it the way you want. “Quote” “Diana, Mary and Florence recorded the song but 4 days later the tune was RE-CUT with the Andantes. This became the released version that received a Grammy nomination for Best Contemporary Rock & Roll Performance by a group. It lost to “Flowers on the wall” by the Statler Brothers.” “ End of Quote”.
    So I guess, the question would be what does Re-Cut mean? Why didn’t they just say it was remixed and the Andantes were added four days later ?
    It should have been worded "Along with the Andantes" to fatten up the overall sound. Now can we this subject alone? This started out as a great thread.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    It should have been worded "Along with the Andantes" to fatten up the overall sound. Now can we this subject alone? This started out as a great thread.
    I agree 💯. If they are all on the record they should have said along with the Andantes.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    Ran, I recall the Nightflight interview very well. Andy was being quite "diplomatic" on that show because he knew the carnage his words would prompt. Key to his post below are these words:
    [/COLOR]
    Andy never says Mary and Flo weren't on Stop, just that others were on it. The second paragraph following that statement is where he discussed Jackie Hicks, simply saying she's on it. It would have been at that point he would have added "Flo and/or Mary are not". But he didn't. The backgrounds have clearly been "sweetened" with additional voices.

    You know as well as I do that this really has nothing to do with Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard. We have a couple of people around here who are giant jackasses and much of the fighting about these issues are simply proxy fights between camps with longstanding animosities. They project their personalities largely through Diana or Mary and pick fights based on 60 fucking year old received grievances. My response: OK boomer.
    My response? Yes, child.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    My response? Yes, child.
    ____Lol!______

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    Ran, I recall the Nightflight interview very well. Andy was being quite "diplomatic" on that show because he knew the carnage his words would prompt. Key to his post below are these words:
    [/COLOR]
    Andy never says Mary and Flo weren't on Stop, just that others were on it. The second paragraph following that statement is where he discussed Jackie Hicks, simply saying she's on it. It would have been at that point he would have added "Flo and/or Mary are not". But he didn't. The backgrounds have clearly been "sweetened" with additional voices.

    You know as well as I do that this really has nothing to do with Diana Ross, Mary Wilson, and Florence Ballard. We have a couple of people around here who are giant jackasses and much of the fighting about these issues are simply proxy fights between camps with longstanding animosities. They project their personalities largely through Diana or Mary and pick fights based on 60 fucking year old received grievances. My response: OK boomer.
    Got it Thanxal. Makes a lot of sense.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    I found Lamont’s story either highly exaggerated or not true. It sounded like an invented story .... going out the bathroom window ..... etc etc etc
    It is a true story. Scherrie Payne (an ex-girlfriend of Lamont Dozier's) repeats that same story in the video I posted in the thread about the Supremes at Motown A Go Go here.

  45. #45
    What if the Andantes or Jackie Hicks obliterated any semblance of Mary or Flo on the 45?

    Is that replacing or is it sweetening with additional voices?

    Should it count as just a Diana Ross song especially when calculating number ones?

    Should Jackie and the Andantes now qualify for royalties in a digital age that was unknown when they sang on the record?

    Should Louvain be asked to apologize for diminishing the roles of Mary and Florence?

    Or should Mary have to apologize for passing herself off as someone else on a critical piece of American music history and never addressing the additional or replaced background vocals?
    Last edited by jobeterob; 11-06-2019 at 11:38 AM.

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