The Marvelettes: On Tour, 124 Upcoming Concerts!

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

I was in Las Vegas buying tickets for a show and the guy was going to see the Platter and the Coasters and asked him if there was an original members in the group. He said he did not know, and he really did not care. It was just something to do that was cheap. So I guess you right. Also, on the subject of claiming right to a group's name, didn't the FLOS obtain the Supremes trademark or right to the name in Europe. If that is true, how the hell could that happen? I mean it is the Supremes- makes no sense.

That is a damned shame if that is true about the FLO's and trademarking the Supremes name in Europe. I guess if you don't have any originality, then steal it!

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2011, 12:56 AM

I heard they obtained it and it was granted to them because the name was not being used by anyone else in the UK.

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

I heard they obtained it and it was granted to them because the name was not being used by anyone else in the UK.

It was still wrong! Is that why they rarely get gigs in the United States? Even still, it has not helped them much as I am sure the people in the U.K. know who the Supremes are.

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2011, 01:23 AM

May be wrong but it is the law in the UK.

But didn't Mary and Scherrie and Lynda kind of kiss and make up over this and now call Lynda and Scherrie call themselves, "formerly of". But I agree, it doesnt matter much; they attract only small time attention from a core of fans and people who want to hear the songs regardless of who sings them.

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2011, 01:28 AM

Line-up
Julieta Venegas
The Platters
Cornell Gunter's Coasters
The Marvelettes
Venue
Crown Theater and Nightclub

3700 W. Flamingo Rd.

89103

Las Vegas, NV, US

Venue info and map

**randy_russi** · 03-02-2011, 08:41 AM

Yes, I meant on my post that Berry Gordy could've stopped this decades ago if he wanted to. It is ashame, however, that
I have seen booking agencies on the internet representing fake Temps, Tops, & Supremes as well. I believe they were
somewhere in Europe.
I also once was told there was a stipulation with the fake Marvelettes--they cannot do TV work or interviews with the
press. I did see a late night TV appearance on some kind of "in concert" oldies show, but I have never seen any articles
or newspapers with quotes or interviews with them. And, apparently, there are several sets being booked around.

**markdtiller** · 03-02-2011, 09:01 AM

A few years back I went ot a gay club in London to see what was advertised as the the Supremes [[FLOS Scherrie Lynda & Sundray at the time) on a bill with the 3 Degrees line up - the FLOS had been there before. Coincidentally Mary had been ovee the road the week before with Martha & Edwin Starr doing the Motown Story tour: Dancing In The Streets. However it wasn't even the FLOS it was 3 miscellaneous young black girls who were not old enough to be alive when "Baby Love" came out, if not "Stoned Love". I complained to the mangement and me and my friends got our money back. I asked who these girls were, thinking perhaps one was former Mary backing vocalist Kaaren Raagland, when they were being adverised with SLS pictures, he said they were contracted by Motown to do touring gigs!!! Even the FLOS have fakes - the 3 Degrees were working with them and this fake girl group was top of the bill! Of course they may not have known that until they got there.

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 09:01 AM

That is true Randy. I had a videotape from the early 90's of these three girls performing as "The Marvelettes" they were all in their 20's. I also had a video story of the several fake Shirelles groups that were out there performing around the country.

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2011, 12:28 PM

The FLOS with the Three Degrees! Now that would have attracted the hardcore.

It is too bad Berry and Motown did not understand the far reaching consequences of what happened with the Marvelettes; as others have said, the Marvelettes were first and quite a bit of practicing was done with them and their name.

**detmotownguy** · 03-02-2011, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

I heard they obtained it and it was granted to them because the name was not being used by anyone else in the UK.

I wonder how the remaining original Sups felt? As controlling as Motown was, I am suprised they dropped the ball. I wonder how many other group names could be picked up for a few bucks. What a shame.

**tomato tom** · 03-02-2011, 01:57 PM

All very valid points! Paulo xxxx

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2011, 02:05 PM

I think history shows that Diana, Jean, Cindy, and Susaye didn't care about usage of the name or it's trademark; Lynda and Scherrie must have wanted it or they wouldn't have applied. I don't think it made Mary happy; I believe she opposed it and lost because the name had not been used in the UK. [[It is possible that someone else might have had the name trademarked; if they did, they lost it because it wasn't being used.) All it did was complicate the relationship between the 70's Supremes/FLOs and give the fans another bone to pick over.

All of this with the Marvelettes shows how important trademarks and patents are and how legally strong they are.

I wonder if there are young groups out there today making the same mistakes.

topdiva1 · 03-02-2011, 02:33 PM

Cindy Birdsong did use the name Supreme's in the UK when she tried for a solo career. The truth is as nice as she is - alone - she cannot command and do a whole show - ala Ross - Wilson _ Terrell - Green Etc.

Those that fought for the name spent much money for really nothing.

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by topdiva1

Cindy Birdsong did use the name Supreme's in the UK when she tried for a solo career. The truth is as nice as she is - alone - she cannot command and do a whole show - ala Ross - Wilson _ Terrell - Green Etc.

Those that fought for the name spent much money for really nothing.

I saw a videotape of one of Cindy Birdsong's concerts [[at the Hippodrome I believe). It was nice, but not very strong.

**randy_russi** · 03-02-2011, 03:01 PM

I had heard that Berry Gordy lost the name, but then one of the people closely associated said it was actually Smokey
who either gave the name away or lost it in a game.
The fake Shirelles groups were taken to court by the original Shirelles way back in the 70s. At least one major fake
Shirelles group. Shirley told me all about that years ago.

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by randy_russi

I had heard that Berry Gordy lost the name, but then one of the people closely associated said it was actually Smokey
who either gave the name away or lost it in a game.
The fake Shirelles groups were taken to court by the original Shirelles way back in the 70s. At least one major fake
Shirelles group. Shirley told me all about that years ago.

Randy, the program I saw from around the late 80's , early 90's they found the guy in the Bronx that had 3 separate Shirelles groups that he managed and sent out on the road. In the program they interviewed Shirley, Doris and Beverly. All three were shocked and rather pissed by the who situation.

Yes, I heard it was Smokey too.

**theboyfromxtown** · 03-02-2011, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by topdiva1

Cindy Birdsong did use the name Supreme's in the UK when she tried for a solo career. The truth is as nice as she is - alone - she cannot command and do a whole show - ala Ross - Wilson _ Terrell - Green Etc.

Those that fought for the name spent much money for really nothing.

Topdiva1-I attended Cindy's concerts and kept the adverts but I can't see where she is using the name "Supremes" in the promotional literature I have. Mention was made in newspaper reports though. Is that what you meant?

The night Cindy performed at the Hippodrome, Diana Ross was upstairs in the restaurant. I saw her myself initially but then a swarm of photographers and others gathered around her. It was exciting for fans but real sad for poor Cindy cos she could see everyone watching what was going on upstairs instead of watching her. Diana was in the newspapers next day and, as you would expect, the word Supreme was everywhere! British fans greatly respected Diana for supporting her fellow Supreme.

Talking of Supremes, Mary is performing tonight in the UK, in fact Mary has chosen the UK to celebrate her birthday this week. *smile*

**juicefree20** · 03-02-2011, 06:26 PM

As regards the name issue, we have to consider the times that this occurred in.

Honestly, how many people back then could've predicted that the issue of names would become the albatross that it's become? Back then, you never really heard issues about this kind of thing. There were groups who were summarily fired & replaced, as when The Five Crowns replaced the entire Drifters group & there were a few groups that formed splinter groups.

With that said, it was nothing like it is today, where the stakes are much higher, as these groups are much older, with a far lesser shelf life. As most of them didn't really get paid back then, they're working through what should be their "Golden Years". Unfortunately, many of them are hurting financially & really need this money.

Another factor is that back then, while understanding the value of being members of a group such as, let's say, "Juice And The Five Shadows", that value wasn't so much linked to working 30 years down the road, but rather the perks & special treatment that it afforded them back THEN.

I doubt back then that anyone told these groups about trademarking names & the truth is that even had they trademarked their name, they'd likely had to have given it away in order to be signed. Given a choice between being an unsigned group with a name & no records [[which is really what most of those kids really wanted back then), I'm sure that many would've given that name away for the opportunity to have their voices blasting over the radio & being the envy of all of their friends & the wonderful, shall we say, "fringe benefits" that came along with that.

Tying that together is the fact that a lot of these groups simply never gave their name a second thought. Many of them believed that as they had sang in said group, they're on records & album covers & EVERYONE knows that they were a member of that group, that they'd always be able to use that name. Think back...the oldies craze didn't really kick in until around 1969, when Richard Nader put on the first Rock & Roll revival shows. Truthfully, it didn't REALLY kick in until 1973, when Dick Clark, WOR-FM & others began pushing those oldie LPs & I'll never forget the impression that the commercial for "The Greatest Hits Of Rock & Roll" left on me, with James Sheppard blowing that fade from [[OOPS!!!) "A Thousand Miles Away" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKxEGQXt8AU

I guess that I'm saying that I don't believe that 40 or 50 years ago, those young men & women could've dreamed that they & their music would be in such demand, would be so beloved & treasured as time has proven that it was & still is.

Just one mans take on it.

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by juicefree20

As regards the name issue, we have to consider the times that this occurred it.

Honestly, how many people back then could've predicted that the issue of names would become the albatross that it's become? Back then, you never really heard issues of this kind of thing. There were groups who were summarily fired & replaced, as when The Five Crowns replaced the entire Drifters group & there were a few groups that formed splinter groups.

With that said, it was nothing like it is today, where the stakes are much higher, as these groups are much older, with a far lesser shelf life. As most of them didn't really get paid back then, they're working through what should be their "Golden Years". Unfortunately, many of them are hurting financially & really need this money.

Another factor is that back then, while understanding the value of being members of a group such as, let's say, "Juice And The Five Shadows", that value wasn't so much linked to working 30 years down the road, but rather the perks & special treatment that it afforded them back THEN.

I doubt back then that anyone told these groups about trademarking names & the truth is that even had they trademarked their name, they'd likely had to have given it away in order to be signed. Given a choice between being an unsigned group with a name & no records [[which is really what most of those kids really wanted back then), I'm sure that many would've given that name away for the opportunity to have their voices blasting over the radio & being the envy of all of their friends & the wonderful, shall we say, "fringe benefits" that came along with that.

Tying that together is the fact that a lot of these groups simply never gave their name a second thought. Many of them believed that as they had sang in said group, they're on records & album covers & EVERYONE knows that they were a member of that group, that they'd always be able to use that name. Think back...the oldies craze didn't really kick in until around 1969, when Richard Nader put on the first Rock & Roll revival shows. Truthfully, it didn't REALLY kick in until 1973, when Dick Clark, WOR-FM & others began pushing those oldie LPs & I'll never forget the impression that the commercial for "The Greatest Hits Of Rock & Roll" left on me, with James Sheppard blowing that fade from "Daddy's Home" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKxEGQXt8AU

I guess that I'm saying that I don't believe that 40 or 50 years ago, those young men & women could've dreamed that them & their music would be in such demand, would be so beloved & treasured as time has proven that it was & still is.

Just one mans take on it.

You got a good take Juice. For some reason the image of Elbridge "Al" Bryant of the Original Temptations popped up in my mind..........

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2011, 06:42 PM

The above is also the reason that for $50,000.00, these artists would sign away all royalties and all rights.

I'm not sure if it was Mary Wells or Martha Reeves that said they had no idea people would be singing My Guy or Dancing in the Street 50 years after it was released.

**theboyfromxtown** · 03-02-2011, 07:06 PM

It was Martha.

**randy_russi** · 03-02-2011, 07:16 PM

I didn't know about the Shirelles being "faked" in the late 80s/early 90s. I only remember Shirley telling me about the
fake Shirelles of the 70s. It seems the woman fronting them had been a background singer for someone like Ray
Charles[[!). I remember this because at the time she was "exposed" a magazine did an article on her--Rock Magazine,
I think. I do remember that Spookey told me saw a group of fake Shirelles in the '80s calling themselves the "Nu-Shirelles",
but singing all the old hits.

**marv2** · 03-02-2011, 07:34 PM

Randy do you remember a program called "PM Magazine"? They were the ones that produced the expose I was referring to in the 80's. They showed film of several Shirelles acts on stage with one wearing cheap costumes singing in a school gym somewhere.

**luke** · 03-02-2011, 07:49 PM

Did Cindy and Diana pose for pics together?

**theboyfromxtown** · 03-03-2011, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Did Cindy and Diana pose for pics together?

Luke...you mean at the Hippodrome. Yes, there were pictures of Diana and Cindy together.

**captainjames** · 03-03-2011, 09:22 AM

John,
Did you go see Mary ?

Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown

Topdiva1-I attended Cindy's concerts and kept the adverts but I can't see where she is using the name "Supremes" in the promotional literature I have. Mention was made in newspaper reports though. Is that what you meant?

The night Cindy performed at the Hippodrome, Diana Ross was upstairs in the restaurant. I saw her myself initially but then a swarm of photographers and others gathered around her. It was exciting for fans but real sad for poor Cindy cos she could see everyone watching what was going on upstairs instead of watching her. Diana was in the newspapers next day and, as you would expect, the word Supreme was everywhere! British fans greatly respected Diana for supporting her fellow Supreme.

Talking of Supremes, Mary is performing tonight in the UK, in fact Mary has chosen the UK to celebrate her birthday this week. *smile*

**randy_russi** · 03-03-2011, 10:07 AM

Yes, I do remember "PM Magazine". I also remember the original Shangri-Las on Entertainment Tonight going into a rage
over a fake group of Shangs.
Eventually, Dick Fox, who had the name and managed them and is also married to one, ended up giving the originals
a percentage of their work. He also agreed that while they are introduced and perform as the Shangri-Las, they can't
actually say they ARE the Shangri-las, although, "Bo" who has been with the fakes for years, has a strong resemblence
to one of the dark-haired twins and i can tell she lets people think she's one of them in the old pics.
They also pretend that Dick Fox's wife, who is actually named Mary [[but not a blonde), is Bo's daughter.
Then the third member is always a girl with long blonde hair.

**marv2** · 03-03-2011, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by randy_russi

Yes, I do remember "PM Magazine". I also remember the original Shangri-Las on Entertainment Tonight going into a rage
over a fake group of Shangs.
Eventually, Dick Fox, who had the name and managed them and is also married to one, ended up giving the originals
a percentage of their work. He also agreed that while they are introduced and perform as the Shangri-Las, they can't
actually say they ARE the Shangri-las, although, "Bo" who has been with the fakes for years, has a strong resemblence
to one of the dark-haired twins and i can tell she lets people think she's one of them in the old pics.
They also pretend that Dick Fox's wife, who is actually named Mary [[but not a blonde), is Bo's daughter.
Then the third member is always a girl with long blonde hair.

So much deception. I know at least one of the original members was from here on Long Island and at least one has passed on.

**arrr&bee** · 03-03-2011, 02:05 PM

That's why i feel so blessed to have seen these performers in thier primes,those of us old enough to remember the great groups as we all do here won't be taken in by any fakes,it's the connection that we have from our youth for me there are only three marvelettes left-wanda,kat,ann and we all know that unfortunately they will never grace the stage together again as much as i love the mighty temps when the day comes that otis williams is no longer with them is the day the temptations are no more as far as i'm concerned you have to have an original member for that link,just as duke is the link for the four tops you all know what i mean there has to be an original link for me.

**randy_russi** · 03-03-2011, 02:53 PM

marv2, the two Ganser twins, the dark-haired girls, are both deceased. Betty & Mary Weiss are still around. Mary has a
website and put out a new CD a couple years ago. Betty goes by the name Liz now. I thought all of them were from
Queens, NY. I saw them perform in 1966.

**jobeterob** · 03-03-2011, 03:17 PM

Those Motown groups starting with the Marvelettes, continued by Martha and the Vandellas, and defined by the Supremes and especially Diana Ross established a continuing trademark for the girl group and that won't be taken away. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way to convert that into money for most of those people due to poor decisions made in the 1960's and 1970's. Still, they did establish the look and the style.

**marv2** · 03-03-2011, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by randy_russi

marv2, the two Ganser twins, the dark-haired girls, are both deceased. Betty & Mary Weiss are still around. Mary has a
website and put out a new CD a couple years ago. Betty goes by the name Liz now. I thought all of them were from
Queens, NY. I saw them perform in 1966.

Randy thanks for that information. Well, Long Island claims them as OURS! hehehehehe! I think that maybe Mary Weiss lives out here. Technically Queens is also a part of Long Island, but I know everyone associates it with the city.