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  1. #1

    The Supremes Reissues

    This topic has been touched on here and there over the years, but I am wondering how many of us would think and or agree that if we just did the stereo/mono on a single disc (mono single mixes for later albums 68-69) that we would have all if not most of the albums by DRATS reissued on cd from Universal? I know that Harry, Andy, George and Kevin's heart are in the right place and they have done a phenomenal job on these 2 disc sets but as long as it has take to get these out is honestly, plain ridiculous. I think that if they had pursued the other option universal may have agreed to more releases a year and we may well be done with them. Then, I think the guys should have taken the unreleased mixes from the Expanded Editions and Lost and Found and tried to combine them into a box set similar to the 2000 box set (4-5 discs) with a different color and in limited quantities. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by aarondillon2011@gmail.com View Post
    This topic has been touched on here and there over the years, but I am wondering how many of us would think and or agree that if we just did the stereo/mono on a single disc (mono single mixes for later albums 68-69) that we would have all if not most of the albums by DRATS reissued on cd from Universal? I know that Harry, Andy, George and Kevin's heart are in the right place and they have done a phenomenal job on these 2 disc sets but as long as it has take to get these out is honestly, plain ridiculous. I think that if they had pursued the other option universal may have agreed to more releases a year and we may well be done with them. Then, I think the guys should have taken the unreleased mixes from the Expanded Editions and Lost and Found and tried to combine them into a box set similar to the 2000 box set (4-5 discs) with a different color and in limited quantities. Any thoughts?
    So basically just get the albums out then worry about the EXTRAS on their own CD releases? Sounds great in my opinion.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by aarondillon2011@gmail.com View Post
    This topic has been touched on here and there over the years, but I am wondering how many of us would think and or agree that if we just did the stereo/mono on a single disc (mono single mixes for later albums 68-69) that we would have all if not most of the albums by DRATS reissued on cd from Universal? I know that Harry, Andy, George and Kevin's heart are in the right place and they have done a phenomenal job on these 2 disc sets but as long as it has take to get these out is honestly, plain ridiculous. I think that if they had pursued the other option universal may have agreed to more releases a year and we may well be done with them. Then, I think the guys should have taken the unreleased mixes from the Expanded Editions and Lost and Found and tried to combine them into a box set similar to the 2000 box set (4-5 discs) with a different color and in limited quantities. Any thoughts?
    I am sure the guys would get these releases out quicker if it was up to them. It is obviously Universal that is the stumbling block here. They evidently do not think these releases make them enough money. I think most fans would prefer to have more of these fantastic 2 cd editions. I know i would.

  4. #4
    I wouldn't buy the reissues if they didn't have the extra tracks. I already have 3-4 CD versions of the albums and 1) I hate mono so that's no incentive for me to buy, and 2) while the remastering always makes them sound better, that alone wouldn't be enough for me to purchase them.

    I don't think the issue holding back the releases are the extra tracks. It is the executives making decisions at Universal.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    I wouldn't buy the reissues if they didn't have the extra tracks. I already have 3-4 CD versions of the albums and 1) I hate mono so that's no incentive for me to buy, and 2) while the remastering always makes them sound better, that alone wouldn't be enough for me to purchase them.

    I don't think the issue holding back the releases are the extra tracks. It is the executives making decisions at Universal.
    Agreed, the extra tracks are the appeal to me since I have most of the previously released stuff in one form or another. I figured the issue is Universal itself. They don't seem to care about their Motown holdings for some reason. There's never any big promotion for their Motown releases and unless I've missed something, there isn't a big Universal celebration for Motown's 60th either. Universal just doesn't seem to care about Motown.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    I don't think the issue holding back the releases are the extra tracks. It is the executives making decisions at Universal.
    Bingo! Look at Motown 60 in general. What have we seen from them other than two Marvin Gaye releases and a reissue of a Motown No. 1's box set that none of us are going to buy? Nada. I don't have a business degree nor have I run a business, but I have worked in places that have made piss poor business decisions that hurt the company either financially or image-wise. Universal has made piss poor decisions in regards to the Motown catalog since they closed down Hip-O Select. Universal isn't losing money when they do these releases. A worldwide major label such as themselves aren't strapped for cash when a Rare Earth or Mary Wells collection doesn't sell out of their 5,000 copies. The Supremes releases have proven to sell very well despite the total lack of promotion yet they have no problem promoting the Marvin Gaye You're The Man album. You have all these third party labels like Ace, The Second Disc, Reel Gone Music, etc. who would love to do CD releases on the Motown catalog, but instead Universal would rather keep the catalog to themselves and sit on it. My question is...what is the reason? Diana Ross was making all sorts of TV appearances over the past year, her 75th birthday bash, the Grammys, etc. and we've seen...nothing of product on her. The Temptations' story is a huge hit on Broadway right now with lots of Tony nominations and what has Universal done to tie into that? (cue crickets). Motown 50 was a huge wet fart and so is Motown 60.

    In regards to the Expanded Editions, I don't think having the mono/stereo albums on their own without extra tracks is a good idea. It totally strays from the concept Andy and George have been doing since Where Did Our Love Go Expanded and what makes these collections so special are the extra tracks and how they fit into the album timelines. Besides, all the studio albums have been remastered and available on iTunes. There really is no point in doing these again if there isn't something extra to add.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 05-16-2019 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #7
    I agree with the 3 posts above this.

    I think the issue is simple. Even back in the day, the white rock guitar bands got the biggest sales. At a certain time, a certain artist, like Diana Ross, the Supremes, Marvin Gaye, the Temptations MIGHT reach some pretty remarkable heights. But many lesser Motown artists did not get there.

    Generally, I believe there isn't enough money in this for Universal today and if it's not producing enough, it does not get the go ahead.

    And they don't buy into the idea that because Motown 60 was a ratings hit and that it attracted media attention to Diana Ross, it will translate into sales for a 75 year old heritage artist.

    And beyond that, some of the artists that we love (and I won't aggravate anyone by naming names), don't have a hope in hell of reaching the sales plateaus necessary to generate enough money to keep Motown interested.

    Why they won't allow other labels to license and release product, I don't know. I think they may be waiting for some of the key artists to die and then might either issue or license.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    I wouldn't buy the reissues if they didn't have the extra tracks. I already have 3-4 CD versions of the albums and 1) I hate mono so that's no incentive for me to buy, and 2) while the remastering always makes them sound better, that alone wouldn't be enough for me to purchase them.

    I don't think the issue holding back the releases are the extra tracks. It is the executives making decisions at Universal.
    I also wouldn't buy any reissues without the extra tracks.

  9. #9
    I want the expanded issues that we have been getting with the extra tracks.

  10. #10
    aren't the original albums all available on itunes? if anyone is looking for just the original 12 tracks of Cream or something, they're on there to download

    in terms of having both mono and stereo due to the differences, wasn't Reflections the last DRATS lp to be in both formats? does anyone know if there were any significant differences between the formats?

    I agree that the real point of these EEs is to learn more about the group and have access to previously unavailable content

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    aren't the original albums all available on itunes? if anyone is looking for just the original 12 tracks of Cream or something, they're on there to download

    in terms of having both mono and stereo due to the differences, wasn't Reflections the last DRATS lp to be in both formats? does anyone know if there were any significant differences between the formats?

    I agree that the real point of these EEs is to learn more about the group and have access to previously unavailable content
    I have mono albums of FUNNY GIRL and JOIN THE TEMPTATIONS. But I don't know if they are true mono or what some people call "fold-downs"?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    I want the expanded issues that we have been getting with the extra tracks.
    I as well. Booklets, trifold sleeves, etc.

  13. #13
    ^yes!! the booklets are actually my fav part.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    I as well. Booklets, trifold sleeves, etc.
    Yes. Love the packaging and booklets too! I want it all! Lol

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by vgalindo View Post
    Yes. Love the packaging and booklets too! I want it all! Lol
    And, why ... WHY??? Should we not have it ALL? Best to you - have a great weekend.

  16. What we've been getting is perfect in every way. Not sure why people keep trying to reinvent the wheel.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    And, why ... WHY??? Should we not have it ALL? Best to you - have a great weekend.
    I agree! And a great weekend to you too.

  18. #18
    What you guys don't realize is that the reason we aren't getting the reissues is because the record industry is in peril. Digital downloading was the worst thing that ever happened to them. That is the biggest problem. Promoting current artists is more expensive than ever, with videos, and pirating. That's why we don't have as many releases in a month/quarter/year as we did before digital technology came along. These kids today are wizards at finding ways to download music for free. And in order to have our music issued, a record company must have income from current artists to bankroll these re-issues.

    Secondly and more important, The Supremes belong to yesterday. Record executives seek bands that sell in the millions, not just a few thousand copies like oldies acts sell. Additionally new legislation is making the oldies stations who play this music dry up because of copyright infringements. Re-issues of classic artists on a record label is nothing more than icing on the cake, a couple extra bucks. These issues are not priority.

    When a classic artist dies, or when a movie is made that is very successful, briefly there will be a spike in sales for that artist. Look for a sudden resurgence in Doris Day's music in the months ahead. Then it will get quiet again.

    It's called show BUSINESS for a reason.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by aarondillon2011@gmail.com View Post
    This topic has been touched on here and there over the years, but I am wondering how many of us would think and or agree that if we just did the stereo/mono on a single disc (mono single mixes for later albums 68-69) that we would have all if not most of the albums by DRATS reissued on cd from Universal? I know that Harry, Andy, George and Kevin's heart are in the right place and they have done a phenomenal job on these 2 disc sets but as long as it has take to get these out is honestly, plain ridiculous. I think that if they had pursued the other option universal may have agreed to more releases a year and we may well be done with them. Then, I think the guys should have taken the unreleased mixes from the Expanded Editions and Lost and Found and tried to combine them into a box set similar to the 2000 box set (4-5 discs) with a different color and in limited quantities. Any thoughts?
    I don't think that would've made any difference to UMe if Motown decided to do just do single disc mono/stereo reissues on The Supremes. As other posters have mentioned, they sadly consider music of the Classic Hitsville Era old hat and they're simply don't feel they're going to make a lot of money on it. Let's face it, we were very lucky to see the deluxe editions of Supremes A Go-Go & Sing H-D-H after Universal closed the Hip-O Select label (as always, thanks to Harry, George & Kevin for their efforts).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    we were very lucky to see the deluxe editions of Supremes A Go-Go & Sing H-D-H after Universal closed the Hip-O Select label (as always, thanks to Harry, George & Kevin for their efforts).
    I'm very grateful.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    What you guys don't realize is that the reason we aren't getting the reissues is because the record industry is in peril. Digital downloading was the worst thing that ever happened to them. That is the biggest problem. Promoting current artists is more expensive than ever, with videos, and pirating. That's why we don't have as many releases in a month/quarter/year as we did before digital technology came along. These kids today are wizards at finding ways to download music for free. And in order to have our music issued, a record company must have income from current artists to bankroll these re-issues.

    Secondly and more important, The Supremes belong to yesterday. Record executives seek bands that sell in the millions, not just a few thousand copies like oldies acts sell. Additionally new legislation is making the oldies stations who play this music dry up because of copyright infringements. Re-issues of classic artists on a record label is nothing more than icing on the cake, a couple extra bucks. These issues are not priority.

    When a classic artist dies, or when a movie is made that is very successful, briefly there will be a spike in sales for that artist. Look for a sudden resurgence in Doris Day's music in the months ahead. Then it will get quiet again.

    It's called show BUSINESS for a reason.
    These releases don’t cost an arm and a leg to do. Universal isn’t losing money on a Supremes reissue. And if it’s not a priority to them then why are they withholding from third party labels to release them? From what I see, places like Ace, Second Disc, Real Gone Music seem to be doing very well because every time you turn around they’re releasing reissues and expanded treatments right and left. There’s a market out there for this stuff. It’s almost as if Universal thought process is “If we lease our catalog to a third party then we won’t be making any profit from it, but if we hold onto it and issue it ourselves we may not make any profit on it because this is an old catalog and it’s not worth doing for a few thousand copies, etc.” That’s how stupid they sound.

    I seem to recall reading an article within the past year or so that read back catalogs were selling better than new releases or something to that effect. There’s value in the catalog especially a rich one like Motown and they don’t do anything with it. I understand it’s a business, but none of it makes sense and frankly I don’t think they know what they’re doing.

  22. #22
    All of this has some truth

    I suspect half this forum never buys the product - bash a Supreme but never support

    I think itís mostly irrelevant to Universal; the industry is on life support and there are bigger fish to work on

    Maybe when someone dies weíll see a burst but more likely just a push on the hits packages

  23. #23
    I was told universal had a lot of things planned for Diana's b day n the Motown 60.
    But as u see universal has delivered nothing. I'm done with them.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I was told universal had a lot of things planned for Diana's b day n the Motown 60.
    But as u see universal has delivered nothing. I'm done with them.
    Yes. Itís so disappointing that they did nothing for Diana Rossí birthday or Motown 60. Itís actually kinda disgusting!!

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    All of this has some truth

    I suspect half this forum never buys the product - bash a Supreme but never support

    I think itís mostly irrelevant to Universal; the industry is on life support and there are bigger fish to work on

    Maybe when someone dies weíll see a burst but more likely just a push on the hits packages
    I agree. I have bought every release and even extra copies. Then you hear people on here who are supposed to be Supremes fans who never even bought the last release. Smdh

  26. #26
    Well I didn't want to bring up the issue of deadness but even that, I fear, will not do much to produce reissues other than a compilation. For anyone. After all Aretha Franklin's passing was quite widely covered and laudatory articles were everywhere but there has not been anything other than (thank goodness!) the release of 'Amazing Grace' in theatres. We're being promised extra footage on an eventual DVD but I won't hold my breath.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    All of this has some truth

    I suspect half this forum never buys the product - bash a Supreme but never support

    I think it’s mostly irrelevant to Universal; the industry is on life support and there are bigger fish to work on

    Maybe when someone dies we’ll see a burst but more likely just a push on the hits packages
    I regret to agree all around. How does Canada handle non-Canadian cd releases? Are they leased via: a Canadian company or just considered imports?

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Well I didn't want to bring up the issue of deadness but even that, I fear, will not do much to produce reissues other than a compilation. For anyone. After all Aretha Franklin's passing was quite widely covered and laudatory articles were everywhere but there has not been anything other than (thank goodness!) the release of 'Amazing Grace' in theatres. We're being promised extra footage on an eventual DVD but I won't hold my breath.
    Actually, since Aretha's death, in addition to the AMAZING GRACE movie, there has also been the release of the complete AMAZING GRACE on vinyl, the re-release of her SONGS OF FAITH album on colored vinyl, plus a collection of the single versions of her 1967-1970 Atlantic singles, and a Record Store Day exclusive of her 1967 Atlantic singles. Plus a coffee table book of photographs was released last fall, with another coming in September.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Actually, since Aretha's death, in addition to the AMAZING GRACE movie, there has also been the release of the complete AMAZING GRACE on vinyl, the re-release of her SONGS OF FAITH album on colored vinyl, plus a collection of the single versions of her 1967-1970 Atlantic singles, and a Record Store Day exclusive of her 1967 Atlantic singles. Plus a coffee table book of photographs was released last fall, with another coming in September.
    Iím glad to see this listed because for all the splash around her passing and funeral, it didnít seem to me that it translated into many sales

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Actually, since Aretha's death, in addition to the AMAZING GRACE movie, there has also been the release of the complete AMAZING GRACE on vinyl, the re-release of her SONGS OF FAITH album on colored vinyl, plus a collection of the single versions of her 1967-1970 Atlantic singles, and a Record Store Day exclusive of her 1967 Atlantic singles. Plus a coffee table book of photographs was released last fall, with another coming in September.
    I am not sure about the other stuff you mention, but the collection of her Atlantic singles was scheduled several months before her passing.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I was told universal had a lot of things planned for Diana's b day n the Motown 60.
    But as u see universal has delivered nothing. I'm done with them.
    I was told the very same thing as you very well know David. What the hell is going on? And they wonder why that pirate guy from Germany received so many orders. I refused to purchase anything from him due to my loyalty to my friends who have served us so well with all those wonderful reasons. Now i am wondering if i allowed my morals to get in the way of common sense.....
    Last edited by Bluebrock; 05-19-2019 at 02:37 AM. Reason: not finshed

  32. #32
    Blue....I know right. Now we get nothing.
    I am severally disappointed in universal.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I was told the very same thing as you very well know David. What the hell is going on? And they wonder why that pirate guy from Germany received so many orders. I refused to purchase anything from him due to my loyalty to my friends who have served us so well with all those wonderful reasons. Now i am wondering if i allowed my morals to get in the way of common sense.....
    Pretty much every last one of us would prefer to support official releases. But, as I have said many times in the past, when there ain't none ... I now regret passing up 'un-official' expanded versions of the Return to Motown solo LPs as well as the expanded 'Reflections'. When each, any, and every one of these is issued officially I will buy those as well. But I no longer anticipate those coming. I hope the English countryside weather was as spectacular this weekend as that here in NJ has been!

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Pretty much every last one of us would prefer to support official releases. But, as I have said many times in the past, when there ain't none ... I now regret passing up 'un-official' expanded versions of the Return to Motown solo LPs as well as the expanded 'Reflections'. When each, any, and every one of these is issued officially I will buy those as well. But I no longer anticipate those coming. I hope the English countryside weather was as spectacular this weekend as that here in NJ has been!
    I feel quite guilty when i say i almost regret not making those illegal purchases when i had the opportunity, but if Universal refuse to "officially" release them i find it increasingly difficult to condemn the people who did so.
    The weather has been lovely over here thank you very much! I have spent much of the weekend trimming down the many trees in my gardens. They look beautiful, but are getting increasingly difficult to maintain now that i am fast approaching my 7th decade on this planet! Hope all is well over there with you and yours.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I feel quite guilty when i say i almost regret not making those illegal purchases when i had the opportunity, but if Universal refuse to "officially" release them i find it increasingly difficult to condemn the people who did so.
    The weather has been lovely over here thank you very much! I have spent much of the weekend trimming down the many trees in my gardens. They look beautiful, but are getting increasingly difficult to maintain now that i am fast approaching my 7th decade on this planet! Hope all is well over there with you and yours.
    I do understand the philosophical stance against bootlegged material. Completely. As many of us have stated, if companies like Kent, Light in the Attic, and many more can manage to issue CDs of low-selling artists ... well, you get my point! We'll look forward to tree pics on FB! I'm a bitterly jealous condo dweller.

  36. #36
    Universal refusal to release these expanded editions..or their slow down of releasing these projects are what create the demand for the other black market projects and make them successful.if Universal released the CDs more routinely ....we wouldn't need the others. But universals greed creates an open door for the black market. If one comes up I may but it because I've tired of universal ignorance towards us .just my opinion

  37. #37
    I understand everyone's frustration and I'm sorry we missed the "Reflections" 50th anniversary (of course we also missed the anniversary on "A Go-Go" and "HDH"). I've had a lot of personal messages and emails as well. I think everything is quite a bit backed up right now but keep the faith because I believe there are more coming. I'm not fishing for thanks but you know we're doing everything on our end to continue to make things happen.

  38. #38
    George, no one is blaming you or Andy. we appreciate all you do for us. we are blaming Universal. it was myunderstanding things were in place for the ladies b days in march with more to come. sorry but what a let down on universals part.i personally been waiting for Ross 78. I have to say I have given up. I feel totally done with it. just seems universal has a bad attitude,now we do
    thank you for your post.

  39. #39
    As daviddh put it, we certainly don't blame you guys at all and we do thank you guys for all the hard work and excellent mastering you do. A bit backed up eh? That could be a good thing

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by George Solomon View Post
    I understand everyone's frustration and I'm sorry we missed the "Reflections" 50th anniversary (of course we also missed the anniversary on "A Go-Go" and "HDH"). I've had a lot of personal messages and emails as well. I think everything is quite a bit backed up right now but keep the faith because I believe there are more coming. I'm not fishing for thanks but you know we're doing everything on our end to continue to make things happen.
    Thank you for the update. We know you are doing your utmost to continue these releases. There are a lot of frustrated fans on here just waiting to get their hands on Reflections, Ross78 etc etc. We will keep the faith. Thank you again George.

  41. #41
    how funny that the Supremes expanded page has a new heading Reflections, that is apparently the UK cover art?? for that lp. not sure, but i am still feeling as if i am done with this. at this point, universal has given me the , I dont care anymore. sorry not trying to be negative but.
    thanks George

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    how funny that the Supremes expanded page has a new heading Reflections, that is apparently the UK cover art?? for that lp. not sure, but i am still feeling as if i am done with this. at this point, universal has given me the , I dont care anymore. sorry not trying to be negative but.
    thanks George
    Good catch, David, about the Reflections profile pic. Letís hope this is intentional and a tease that the expanded Reflections is coming. We can only hope...

  43. #43

  44. #44
    Nice version! While we're waiting ...

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I feel quite guilty when i say i almost regret not making those illegal purchases when i had the opportunity, but if Universal refuse to "officially" release them i find it increasingly difficult to condemn the people who did so.
    The weather has been lovely over here thank you very much! I have spent much of the weekend trimming down the many trees in my gardens. They look beautiful, but are getting increasingly difficult to maintain now that i am fast approaching my 7th decade on this planet! Hope all is well over there with you and yours.
    I bought most of the Marginal CD (I believe that man who released the disc was Belgian). Interestingly, the Marginal CD (some of them at least) are available again from Germany this time.

    My reason for buying them, is that I thought (at the time) that all the material released on Marginal would never be released (officially) because the tracks were all so old, or not of sufficient high standard to be able to sell. Then of course, came along 'The Complete Motown Singles' box sets, which are amazing. In addition to the Marginal releases, there are also the Tri-Phi and Anna sets (although not every single has been included). I know that these aren't bootleg, and are official releases - and are extremely low in price. No fancy booklets - but it's good to have the discs.

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