Reflections Expanded Edition

[marybrewster]

i think that's a bit harsh of a critique of Diana and her memories and approach to the supremes.

while i don't know diana personally, my take on it is that she doesn't dwell on the past. some people really fawn over memories and sentimentality. people that have boxes of old greeting cards from years and years. people that save everything associated with family members and all. Other people are more detached to the past. it's not that they don't care of the people or the memories. it's just that they have a different perspective of things

IMO Diana is more the later.

also the supremes era had a wonderful sheen to it for the public and fans that concealed a rather dark underbelly. by all accounts, these years were horrifically stressful for the participants, insane schedules and work, painful memories of the interpersonal relationships within the group. typically when people look back, they focus on the happy times, which i don't think we can classify the Sups years as happy

also her career encompasses so much work and music. if she was to really do a concert that was a proper tribute to her career, it would be about 5 hours long lol. sure WE crazy fans would love it. but that's a bit much lol. she has to pick and choose what material to present

another point is that when she went solo in 70, she clearly handed the baton to Mary to run the group. and diana was very supportive of the group and wanted them to succeed. she wasn't personally plotting to undermine their success. but she was very busy with her own life, career, family. Mary took that baton and sort of became the defacto leader and preservationist for the group. diana seems to have avoided jumping into this because she knows her public image would swamp mary's.

Diana herself said it best to Barbara Walters:

[[Paraphrasing)

"People ask me what ever happened to that little girl from the Brewster Projects, and I say "who?"

[johnjeb]

I saw an interview with Huey Lewis on MSNBC last week promoting a Broadway show he was working on. He mentioned he doesn't loook at or dwell on the past and is more focused on his current endeavors.

I have read in the past that many in the entertainment field appreciate fans liking their past work but would prefer them to focus on their current efforts.

[thanxal]

I have read in the past that many in the entertainment field appreciate fans liking their past work but would prefer them to focus on their current efforts.

OMG If Diana Ross said that, she'd be [metaphorically] butchered on this forum. Or if she wanted to enjoy her retirement or grandkids, or whatever.

[bradsupremes]

i think that's a bit harsh of a critique of Diana and her memories and approach to the supremes.

It's not though. I know she isn't one who likes to dwell in the past, but how is supporting reissues of your catalog or sharing your memories about recording a certain song dwelling? I know the times were tough, but they honestly couldn't have been all that painful or else she would have ended up like Florence. She herself kept telling Oprah how much wonderful memories there were. She should know these expanded editions are celebrations of the music.

Paul and Ringo have never abandoned The Beatles legacy - they have fully embraced it and are actively involved in the releases, etc. And all of them had issues with each other. Each of them have their successful solo careers but they have always gone back to the music and keeping it in the forefront. They show up to awards ceremonies, red carpet events supporting Beatles projects, doing interviews, etc. Diana, on the other hand, keeps her Supremes legacy at arms distance. Other than 5 or 6 songs in her live shows, when was the last time she was actively involved or spearheaded any Supremes project? Other than a two sentence statement released through her publicist, what else did she do to celebrate the group getting its Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammys? And the whole "She's letting Mary and Flo's kids get the spotlight" or "She doesn't want to take away from their moment" defense is a rather lazy and unconvincing one. It's her legacy too - take ownership of what you did to help change America in a very turbulent time. She was the voice of the group. She doesn't realize that doing nothing with her Supremes legacy gives off the appearance that she doesn't care. The issue is she likes to have it both ways - she wanted to leave the Supremes to Mary, but then if there's something she objects to, she wants a say and get her way. She doesn't want to take part in the Supremes Grammy presentation, but if tomorrow Ken Burns came out to say he was doing a documentary about the importance of the Supremes, you know she would be quite vocal behind the scenes stopping it.

[sup_fan]

I saw her "greatest hits" show in atlanta around 2012 or 14 or sometime around there. there was a lot of sups songs in it. and i found it quite balanced across her career. plus she was doing multimedia with all of the images and pics in the background of the group. she didn't stop and have a dialog about her time with the sups but then again, she didn't really do a lot of talking period throughout the show. she didn't go into some big monologue on Lady either. she made comments here and there and addressed the audience of course.

i also saw her in 91 as part of the FBTP tour. it was a good show but the sups were definitely more relegated to a side bar. she did a lengthy medley but that's it. but she had the new album to promote plus all of the 80s, 70s and Lady material.

as for the grammies, i'm not sure why she handled it the way she did. maybe because she had so long ago relinquished the reigns to mary that she might have thought it was insincere to do something now. i don't disagree that she might have approached some of these things differently in the past. like the star on the walk of fame. she issued a nice statement and deferred to mary. yes, i agree had she shown up she would have been the focal point by the press. but she too could have helped deflect some of that. if she and mary were being interviewed by the press, she could have simply turned to mary and let mary answer the question. again, i dont' know why she chose the options she did.

[floyjoy678]

It's not though. I know she isn't one who likes to dwell in the past, but how is supporting reissues of your catalog or sharing your memories about recording a certain song dwelling? I know the times were tough, but they honestly couldn't have been all that painful or else she would have ended up like Florence. She herself kept telling Oprah how much wonderful memories there were. She should know these expanded editions are celebrations of the music.

Paul and Ringo have never abandoned The Beatles legacy - they have fully embraced it and are actively involved in the releases, etc. And all of them had issues with each other. Each of them have their successful solo careers but they have always gone back to the music and keeping it in the forefront. They show up to awards ceremonies, red carpet events supporting Beatles projects, doing interviews, etc. Diana, on the other hand, keeps her Supremes legacy at arms distance. Other than 5 or 6 songs in her live shows, when was the last time she was actively involved or spearheaded any Supremes project? Other than a two sentence statement released through her publicist, what else did she do to celebrate the group getting its Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammys? And the whole "She's letting Mary and Flo's kids get the spotlight" or "She doesn't want to take away from their moment" defense is a rather lazy and unconvincing one. It's her legacy too - take ownership of what you did to help change America in a very turbulent time. She was the voice of the group. She doesn't realize that doing nothing with her Supremes legacy gives off the appearance that she doesn't care. The issue is she likes to have it both ways - she wanted to leave the Supremes to Mary, but then if there's something she objects to, she wants a say and get her way. She doesn't want to take part in the Supremes Grammy presentation, but if tomorrow Ken Burns came out to say he was doing a documentary about the importance of the Supremes, you know she would be quite vocal behind the scenes stopping it.

Agree with everything you said. I bet the expanded editions would have sold much more had Diana endorsed them and sold them at her shows.

[Ollie9]

It's not though. I know she isn't one who likes to dwell in the past, but how is supporting reissues of your catalog or sharing your memories about recording a certain song dwelling? I know the times were tough, but they honestly couldn't have been all that painful or else she would have ended up like Florence. She herself kept telling Oprah how much wonderful memories there were. She should know these expanded editions are celebrations of the music.

Paul and Ringo have never abandoned The Beatles legacy - they have fully embraced it and are actively involved in the releases, etc. And all of them had issues with each other. Each of them have their successful solo careers but they have always gone back to the music and keeping it in the forefront. They show up to awards ceremonies, red carpet events supporting Beatles projects, doing interviews, etc. Diana, on the other hand, keeps her Supremes legacy at arms distance. Other than 5 or 6 songs in her live shows, when was the last time she was actively involved or spearheaded any Supremes project? Other than a two sentence statement released through her publicist, what else did she do to celebrate the group getting its Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammys? And the whole "She's letting Mary and Flo's kids get the spotlight" or "She doesn't want to take away from their moment" defense is a rather lazy and unconvincing one. It's her legacy too - take ownership of what you did to help change America in a very turbulent time. She was the voice of the group. She doesn't realize that doing nothing with her Supremes legacy gives off the appearance that she doesn't care. The issue is she likes to have it both ways - she wanted to leave the Supremes to Mary, but then if there's something she objects to, she wants a say and get her way. She doesn't want to take part in the Supremes Grammy presentation, but if tomorrow Ken Burns came out to say he was doing a documentary about the importance of the Supremes, you know she would be quite vocal behind the scenes stopping it.

Despite Diana’s seeming indifference to anything Supreme, she will always be best remembered as the girl who sang “Baby Love’ along with Mary and Flo. It’s her most powerful legacy.

[marybrewster]

Despite Diana’s seeming indifference to anything Supreme, she will always be best remembered as the girl who sang “Baby Love’ along with Mary and Flo. It’s her most powerful legacy.

So true. Even to this day, you'll see her referred in print as The Supremes' Diana Ross. Without a doubt, anything written about her will have "supreme" somewhere in the article, usually as an adjective.

[floyjoy678]

So true. Even to this day, you'll see her referred in print as The Supremes' Diana Ross. Without a doubt, anything written about her will have "supreme" somewhere in the article, usually as an adjective.

Exactly. Whether she likes it or not, she's always going to be remembered as a Supreme.

[ejluther]

Diana doesn’t seem to “push” anything - she did very little press for THANK YOU [did she even do any?] - it’s just not her thing, so it didn’t surprise me when she seemed to have little involvement with the expanded Supremes editions. Taking that into consideration, I just don’t see that she’s indifferent to her past with The Supremes - she’s always done Supremes songs and she certainly flew her Supremes connection loud and proud with the Return To Love tour. As for how she’ll be remembered, of course people will always remember her as a Supreme, but there’s much, much more than that to her legacy; Lady Sings The Blues, the Central Park concert, her many solo hits, etc.

[Ollie9]

Diana doesn’t seem to “push” anything - she did very little press for THANK YOU [did she even do any?] - it’s just not her thing, so it didn’t surprise me when she seemed to have little involvement with the expanded Supremes editions. Taking that into consideration, I just don’t see that she’s indifferent to her past with The Supremes - she’s always done Supremes songs and she certainly flew her Supremes connection loud and proud with the Return To Love tour. As for how she’ll be remembered, of course people will always remember her as a Supreme, but there’s much, much more than that to her legacy; Lady Sings The Blues, the Central Park concert, her many solo hits, etc.

I think she saw RTL as a potentially huge money spinner as opposed to any lingering nostalgia for the group. She wisely performs Supremes songs in concert as she knows that’s what the casual punter wants to hear. It sells tickets.

[bradsupremes]

Diana doesn’t seem to “push” anything - she did very little press for THANK YOU [did she even do any?] - it’s just not her thing, so it didn’t surprise me when she seemed to have little involvement with the expanded Supremes editions. Taking that into consideration, I just don’t see that she’s indifferent to her past with The Supremes - she’s always done Supremes songs and she certainly flew her Supremes connection loud and proud with the Return To Love tour. As for how she’ll be remembered, of course people will always remember her as a Supreme, but there’s much, much more than that to her legacy; Lady Sings The Blues, the Central Park concert, her many solo hits, etc.

She did no promotion for Thank You. I know there were numerous attempts to get her to do appearances and interviews for it and she said no to all of it. It's like running a pie shop and not turning on the lights or putting the open sign out and then wondering why your pies haven't sold...

True, her career is more than just her time with the Supremes, but unfortunately I think she sees her solo career as being bigger and more important than her Supremes days. She certainly has made a huge impact just on her own. There is no denying what she's accomplished and she should continue to get accolades for it, but her 11 years with the group carries the same weight as her 53 years as a soloist. No one is asking her hash out the details about the night Florence was fired or when she had a breakdown at Blinstrub's in Boston, but I'm willing to bet that if she was approached to sign off on releasing TCB or GIT on Prime or Netflix, doing a museum exhibit with artifacts from her Supremes days, or doing a podcast sharing memories on recording her favorite Supremes songs, she would say no to all.

Like what floyjoy678 said, even if she said in concert or posted on social media "Hey, they just reissued Supremes A' Go-Go! It's available now for purchase!" it would do so much. But I know if she was asked to do it, she wouldn't and that's what sets her apart from McCartney, Starr, Brian Wilson, etc.

[thanxal]

[Ollie9]

I wonder which one thrust that into her hand?.

[floyjoy678]

Diana promoted Thank You on her social media pages. Which is more than she did with any of the expanded editions. That above picture I don't believe came from her social media outlets.

Listen I love Diana as one of three original Supremes. I love each of them. But I'm just keeping it real here.

[RanRan79]

I'm bothered by Diana's lack of discussing the Supremes, and her solo career. As a lover of history, and as a family historian, one of my favorite sayings is the old proverb that when an elder dies, a library burns to the ground. I get everyone attempting to explain Diana's silence- or indifference, if you see it that way- but the reality is that when she leaves us, that library is demolished. Anything we might have learned from her is officially destroyed. I'm as afraid of that prospect as I am the thought of a literal library being destroyed. And as the last original Supreme, her memories are more important than ever because there is no alternative person. She's it. And when she's gone, it's all over.

That's unacceptable. I realize none of us have the ability to force her to do anything, so all we can do is discuss our frustrations with the choir. Maybe Rhonda or one of her other kids might put a bug in her ear about doing something. Fingers crossed.

[sup_fan]

diana's lack of promotion of her material is nothing new. i think Blue mentioned how she really doesn't like all of the promotional work required. it's so labor intensive, takes her away from her family. i would imagine it's incredibly draining.

motown had her pretty much touring nonstop [[other than when doing movies). surrender was woefully under promoted but she was preg at the time. the TMITM album doesn't seem to have been promoted much although of course the title track was a big song in her act. did she ever do any other tunes?

with LTISH i think she only sang the 2 singles.

Starting with DR 76 it seems most of the albums starting getting 4 or so songs in the act. although ironically i don't think she ever included anything but Upside Down and Coming Out from the great diana 80 album. Piano did at least get a UK video

RCA - Ross got little promotion as did RHBAB, although there was the tv special.

I know she did major world tours and US tours for WO and Force. what about Take Me Higher? how many of those tunes were promoted? but then starting with Every Day - nothing. and that hasn't changed since then.

[reese]

diana's lack of promotion of her material is nothing new. i think Blue mentioned how she really doesn't like all of the promotional work required. it's so labor intensive, takes her away from her family. i would imagine it's incredibly draining.

motown had her pretty much touring nonstop [[other than when doing movies). surrender was woefully under promoted but she was preg at the time. the TMITM album doesn't seem to have been promoted much although of course the title track was a big song in her act. did she ever do any other tunes?

with LTISH i think she only sang the 2 singles.

Starting with DR 76 it seems most of the albums starting getting 4 or so songs in the act. although ironically i don't think she ever included anything but Upside Down and Coming Out from the great diana 80 album. Piano did at least get a UK video

RCA - Ross got little promotion as did RHBAB, although there was the tv special.

I know she did major world tours and US tours for WO and Force. what about Take Me Higher? how many of those tunes were promoted? but then starting with Every Day - nothing. and that hasn't changed since then.

As has been written previously, once Diana became a solo artist, she did very little television unless it was promoting one of her films, a special show like DICK CLARK'S LIVE WEDNESDAY, doing a tv special, or co-hosting the Oscars. Its not like she ran over to SOUL TRAIN or SOLID GOLD when she had a new release. She did do some of the morning shows however.

It basically stayed that way into the 80s. She did an episode of THE MUPPET SHOW and when she left Motown, she did spots on THE TONIGHT SHOW and 20/20. She hosted the American Music Awards twice. But for the most part, it was basically the same as the 70s. And again, its not like she did MUSCLES or PIECES OF ICE on THE TONIGHT SHOW.

I noticed a difference during her second Motown stint. Albums like FORCE BEHIND THE POWER, ONE WOMAN, and TAKE ME HIGHER were more successful overseas. So she promoted those well. You can find various performances of current singles on TOP OF THE POPS, WOGAN, DES O'CONNOR, and NATIONAL LOTTERY TONIGHT, whereas that wasn't the case in the USA.

EVERY DAY IS A NEW DAY was only promoted in the US with the appearance on OPRAH, THE VIEW, and a BET DOCUGROOVE special. In the UK, she performed NOT OVER YOU YET on at least one show, as well as the AUDIENCE WITH... special.

She promoted I LOVE YOU heavily with a lot of tv appearances and ads as well. And it ended up being her highest charting album since SWEPT AWAY.

THANK YOU might have done better if she had done tv. As it was, when the news first broke that it was coming out, it was a leading item on both THE TODAY SHOW and GOOD MORNING AMERICA. But this was a month or so before the cd was released. So by the time it actually came out, they needed to re-energize and they didn't do that. There were some videos made that ended up on YouTube. But she didn't do any tv.

[daviddh]

Not sure why or what DR is thinking
Mostly she sticks to GMA and Today,Oprah and the View.
She never appeared on Rosie,Ellen or Kelly Clarkson type shows which ,imo, attracts a younger audience.
She rarely does PR ,if any and I was hoping we would get some appearances but we got nothing.
Some below par cheesy videos , I think it reflects in her sales

[Ollie9]

Perhaps after four decades of strutting her stuff she had just had enough of the promotional treadmill that’s a requisite when anything new is released.
More than anything else i would love a candid book from her that charts her rise to fame so we might see things from her perspective.

[jobeterob]

Perhaps after four decades of strutting her stuff she had just had enough of the promotional treadmill that’s a requisite when anything new is released.
More than anything else i would love a candid book from her that charts her rise to fame so we might see things from her perspective.

I would love a candid book - not a trash book, no Mark Bego fluff nor even Randy style modestly provoking - just something setting out her honest views now that all is said and done. There’s no Mary or Flo or even Cindy to raise a stink over what she says and Berry and Smokey and Bob Ellis and Oprah and Beyoncé have always been on Diana’s side. No one expects Diana to do any muck raking at 80 but a frank life encompassing candid account would be welcomed. She’s an important musical figure and people want to hear her account.

I have no expectations of her getting out and promoting anything anymore
In the couple of “reunion” pictures that were taken with Quincy and Berry and Mary [[as close to a reunion as we got), Diana looked to me to be pretty uncomfortable; her face seemed to say “I’m trying my best to smile but get me out of here as fast as you can”.

[marybrewster]

diana's lack of promotion of her material is nothing new. i think Blue mentioned how she really doesn't like all of the promotional work required. it's so labor intensive, takes her away from her family. i would imagine it's incredibly draining.

motown had her pretty much touring nonstop [[other than when doing movies). surrender was woefully under promoted but she was preg at the time. the TMITM album doesn't seem to have been promoted much although of course the title track was a big song in her act. did she ever do any other tunes?

with LTISH i think she only sang the 2 singles.

Starting with DR 76 it seems most of the albums starting getting 4 or so songs in the act. although ironically i don't think she ever included anything but Upside Down and Coming Out from the great diana 80 album. Piano did at least get a UK video

RCA - Ross got little promotion as did RHBAB, although there was the tv special.

I know she did major world tours and US tours for WO and Force. what about Take Me Higher? how many of those tunes were promoted? but then starting with Every Day - nothing. and that hasn't changed since then.

With all due respect, you'd think Diana Ross is the only celebrity with a family. We hear that excuse for her time and again. The majority of those in show business do "press" when they're promoting a product, whether it be a movie, a record, a TV show, whatever. Diana has done little to nothing in the last twenty years. What's her REAL reasoning? Her kids are in their 30's, 40's, and 50's now. She couldn't have done a few interviews or talk shows to promote THANK YOU.....because of her family?

[marybrewster]

I would love a candid book - not a trash book, no Mark Bego fluff nor even Randy style modestly provoking - just something setting out her honest views now that all is said and done. There’s no Mary or Flo or even Cindy to raise a stink over what she says and Berry and Smokey and Bob Ellis and Oprah and Beyoncé have always been on Diana’s side. No one expects Diana to do any muck raking at 80 but a frank life encompassing candid account would be welcomed. She’s an important musical figure and people want to hear her account.

I have no expectations of her getting out and promoting anything anymore
In the couple of “reunion” pictures that were taken with Quincy and Berry and Mary [[as close to a reunion as we got), Diana looked to me to be pretty uncomfortable; her face seemed to say “I’m trying my best to smile but get me out of here as fast as you can”.

You really think so re: "recent" pictures with Diana and Mary? All that I've seen, they both look glowing. There's an unflattering one of Diana with Mary and Berry, but otherwise I think they all look fabulous. Diana hasn't given more than three shites about Mary Wilson in the last 20 or 30 or 40 years. As evidenced by her monotone Tweet related to Mary's passing. If in her 70's Diana couldn't stand next to Mary for 17 seconds and smile for 3 camera clicks, then that's on her. Regardless, they came together before death, and put a period at the end of that sentence.

[jobeterob]

You really think so re: "recent" pictures with Diana and Mary? All that I've seen, they both look glowing. There's an unflattering one of Diana with Mary and Berry, but otherwise I think they all look fabulous. Diana hasn't given more than three shites about Mary Wilson in the last 20 or 30 or 40 years. As evidenced by her monotone Tweet related to Mary's passing. If in her 70's Diana couldn't stand next to Mary for 17 seconds and smile for 3 camera clicks, then that's on her. Regardless, they came together before death, and put a period at the end of that sentence.

It seems to me that Mary looks vivacious and excited. Perhaps Diana’s face shows she doesn’t care about Mary. I don’t see any glow. It crosses my mind that as someone else alluded too, Diana wants to avoid any confrontation or conflict and wants to leave things at “my world is blessed”.

[Ollie9]

I would love a candid book - not a trash book, no Mark Bego fluff nor even Randy style modestly provoking - just something setting out her honest views now that all is said and done. There’s no Mary or Flo or even Cindy to raise a stink over what she says and Berry and Smokey and Bob Ellis and Oprah and Beyoncé have always been on Diana’s side. No one expects Diana to do any muck raking at 80 but a frank life encompassing candid account would be welcomed. She’s an important musical figure and people want to hear her account.

I have no expectations of her getting out and promoting anything anymore
In the couple of “reunion” pictures that were taken with Quincy and Berry and Mary [[as close to a reunion as we got), Diana looked to me to be pretty uncomfortable; her face seemed to say “I’m trying my best to smile but get me out of here as fast as you can”.

Perhaps we read into certain photographs want we want to believe, but agree that such a legendary and at times controversial musical icon as Diana would benefit from giving us her take on such an amazing career.
If not, there will always be somebody else who will.

[jobeterob]

Perhaps we read into certain photographs want we want to believe, but agree that such a legendary and at times controversial musical icon as Diana would benefit from giving us her take on such an amazing career.
If not, there will always be somebody else who will.

When I’ve looked at the picture with Berry and Mary as well as the above with Quincy and Mary, I’ve thought that too much can be read into them - they are just pictures taken in a moment and possibly someone had to burp or fart as the click happened.

But a case can be made for Diana looking much happier with Harry and Andy than she did in the pictures with Mary.

[danman869]

When I’ve looked at the picture with Berry and Mary as well as the above with Quincy and Mary, I’ve thought that too much can be read into them - they are just pictures taken in a moment and possibly someone had to burp or fart as the click happened.

But a case can be made for Diana looking much happier with Harry and Andy than she did in the pictures with Mary.

Maybe Diana had burped or farted just before "A' Go-Go: EE" had been put in her hands to take the photo? After all, Andy and Harry don't have quite as wide a smile as Diana does there.

[jobeterob]

Maybe Diana had burped or farted just before "A' Go-Go: EE" had been put in her hands to take the photo? After all, Andy and Harry don't have quite as wide a smile as Diana does there.

Darn, I just had it ass backwards. Your explanation is better

[sup_fan]

With all due respect, you'd think Diana Ross is the only celebrity with a family. We hear that excuse for her time and again. The majority of those in show business do "press" when they're promoting a product, whether it be a movie, a record, a TV show, whatever. Diana has done little to nothing in the last twenty years. What's her REAL reasoning? Her kids are in their 30's, 40's, and 50's now. She couldn't have done a few interviews or talk shows to promote THANK YOU.....because of her family?

yeah but a huge amount of celebrity children have all sorts of problems. drugs, scandals, being essentially useless. it appears that Diana's kids are not part of that norm. sure there are some other celeb kids that avoided the pitfalls. and my understanding is that now she's an active grandmother.

so back in the 80s when the girls were young, it seems Diana was VERY focused on their upbringing. being a single mother and working hard, she seems to have made time for them. but her work wasn't only her music. she was actively involved in other business endeavors and was managing her career too. so she was the one having to deal with all the management crap that Berry's staff had handled for her in the 70s. and with no one forcing her to do things, she could focus on what she wanted and ignore what she didn't want to do. IMO for things that she was less excited about, she took a "that's sufficient" attitude. she never did much with videos [[or at least much that was really great), the albums were ok, she made occasional national tv appearances. she was focused for a while on that Josephine Baker movie.

[jobeterob]

yeah but a huge amount of celebrity children have all sorts of problems. drugs, scandals, being essentially useless. it appears that Diana's kids are not part of that norm. sure there are some other celeb kids that avoided the pitfalls. and my understanding is that now she's an active grandmother.

so back in the 80s when the girls were young, it seems Diana was VERY focused on their upbringing. being a single mother and working hard, she seems to have made time for them. but her work wasn't only her music. she was actively involved in other business endeavors and was managing her career too. so she was the one having to deal with all the management crap that Berry's staff had handled for her in the 70s. and with no one forcing her to do things, she could focus on what she wanted and ignore what she didn't want to do. IMO for things that she was less excited about, she took a "that's sufficient" attitude. she never did much with videos [[or at least much that was really great), the albums were ok, she made occasional national tv appearances. she was focused for a while on that Josephine Baker movie.

The most important measure of the real quality of a person is how their kids turn out.

[marybrewster]

Maybe Diana had burped or farted just before "A' Go-Go: EE" had been put in her hands to take the photo? After all, Andy and Harry don't have quite as wide a smile as Diana does there.

I'm not sure about that. According to most, when Diana farts it should be a #1 record.

Or at least a #2.

[lakeside]

yeah but a huge amount of celebrity children have all sorts of problems. drugs, scandals, being essentially useless. it appears that Diana's kids are not part of that norm. sure there are some other celeb kids that avoided the pitfalls. and my understanding is that now she's an active grandmother.



so back in the 80s when the girls were young, it seems Diana was VERY focused on their upbringing. being a single mother and working hard, she seems to have made time for them. but her work wasn't only her music. she was actively involved in other business endeavors and was managing her career too. so she was the one having to deal with all the management crap that Berry's staff had handled for her in the 70s. and with no one forcing her to do things, she could focus on what she wanted and ignore what she didn't want to do. IMO for things that she was less excited about, she took a "that's sufficient" attitude. she never did much with videos [[or at least much that was really great), the albums were ok, she made occasional national tv appearances. she was focused for a while on that Josephine Baker movie.

Wasn't Mary also dabbling in the Josephine Baker thing? I thought I remember she even had a photo/portrait done a la Baker?

[sup_fan]

Wasn't Mary also dabbling in the Josephine Baker thing? I thought I remember she even had a photo/portrait done a la Baker?

she portrayed her in the Dream sequence starting in 75. there are a few photos/postcards of her dressed and posed like Baker. I'm not sure what else she did though. I'm not aware if she began incorporating some m of Baker's music in her solo shows. personally i'm not at all familiar with Baker's work and music so I'm not really sure of her whole story.

[marybrewster]

Wasn't Mary also dabbling in the Josephine Baker thing? I thought I remember she even had a photo/portrait done a la Baker?

Josephine Baker and Mary Wilson were introduced to each other by choreographer Geoffrey Holder in 1975, when he created The Supremes' new stage show.

[Ollie9]

The most important measure of the real quality of a person is how their kids turn out.

Thats so not true. Even brilliant parents have children that go astray. In that respect Diana is very lucky indeed. I would never judge a person on the success of their children.

[marybrewster]

Thats so not true. Even brilliant parents have children that go astray. In that respect Diana is very lucky indeed. I would never judge a person on the success of their children.

I second that emotion!

[bradsupremes]

Thats so not true. Even brilliant parents have children that go astray. In that respect Diana is very lucky indeed. I would never judge a person on the success of their children.

I agree. I went to school with some kids who were constantly in trouble and later had run-ins with the law. The parents were the nicest, most compassionate, and understanding people who raised other successful, great kids. Sometimes you have bad eggs and the nature overpowers the nurture.

[Ollie9]

Sometimes you have bad eggs and the nature overpowers the nurture.

That’s a good way of summing it up brad.

[Circa 1824]

I agree. I went to school with some kids who were constantly in trouble and later had run-ins with the law. The parents were the nicest, most compassionate, and understanding people who raised other successful, great kids. Sometimes you have bad eggs and the nature overpowers the nurture.

Each child has his own unique needs that are different from his siblings. Sometimes parents cannot meet his needs. Thus, sometimes children are born to the wrong parents.

Likewise, sometimes a parent has the wrong child. The perfect fit is never guaranteed.

Maybe some of us “had the wrong parent”. My father was a great man, but he didn’t know what to do with a son who liked Diana Ross and not the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[carlo]

Each child has his own unique needs that are different from his siblings. Sometimes parents cannot meet his needs. Thus, sometimes children are born to the wrong parents.

Agreed. Sometimes a child's parent may also present as a friendly or kind person to others, but may be a totally different person, when it comes to how they treat their child behind close doors. I also know of situations where a parent raised one child well, and neglected/abused the other child. Sadly, these situations are generally far too complex for outsiders to properly draw definite conclusions about the character of a person, based on how their child turned out. However, in Diana's case, I sense that her kids have been genuine when they have all sung her praises in interviews. If they felt indifferent or negative towards her, I don't think they would be showing up at her shows and events to the extent that they do.

[jobeterob]

Hmmmm - I still feel that a very good measure of a person is how their children turned out. Not the only measure, but a good one. However, I take the points made.

[Ollie9]

Hmmmm - I still feel that a very good measure of a person is how their children turned out. Not the only measure, but a good one..

In which case Diana Ross must be the most perfect woman on the planet. As if there was ever any doubt.

[bradsupremes]

Hmmmm - I still feel that a very good measure of a person is how their children turned out. Not the only measure, but a good one. However, I take the points made.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't believe that's the case at all. As others have stated, sometimes parents have strengths that may be great to the development of one child and not the other. Does that make them a terrible person and parent? No and they shouldn't be measured on how good of a person they are if a child happens to fall through the cracks or if they become a saint.

Diana has shown her children are the important things in her life and she's done a great job in raising five great people. It's clear her love and nurturing has played a huge part in their development and who they've become and speaks to who she is as a mother. Should we measure her purely based on on how her kids came out? No. There are other dimensions to her as a person like all of us. She's human like the rest of us where we are strong is some areas of life and weak on others.

[TheMotownManiac]

With all due respect, you'd think Diana Ross is the only celebrity with a family. We hear that excuse for her time and again. The majority of those in show business do "press" when they're promoting a product, whether it be a movie, a record, a TV show, whatever. Diana has done little to nothing in the last twenty years. What's her REAL reasoning? Her kids are in their 30's, 40's, and 50's now. She couldn't have done a few interviews or talk shows to promote THANK YOU.....because of her family?

what difference does this make to you? Why do you care if she promotes her records or not? What do you get? That makes you personally bothered by the fact she didn’t promote Thank you.?

I don’t get it either, but she doesn’t care, and I don’t care either, so I just leave it at that. That’s what I wonder what all this conversation is about.

I really wish, and agree with ran, that she is taking a treasure trove of memories with her when she goes and I hate that. But if it’s painful for her to go back, or she finds it non-productive, or she can’t remember things well, whatever the reason, she doesn’t need an excuse as to why she’s not promoting things. she doesn’t need a reason. She’s 80 fucking years old and is doing what she wants to do. I’ve seen her show a bunch of times this year and she has been having a wonderful time on stage. In one city, she was thinking the security people in the backstage people by name. Shows are over 90 minutes again that’s been a long time since that happened. And she’s not sitting on the chair anymore. In my opinion, she has earned the right to do whatever she wants. I don’t understand her, but she has been sensational lately.

[marybrewster]

what difference does this make to you? Why do you care if she promotes her records or not? What do you get? That makes you personally bothered by the fact she didn’t promote Thank you.?

I don’t get it either, but she doesn’t care, and I don’t care either, so I just leave it at that. That’s what I wonder what all this conversation is about.

I really wish, and agree with ran, that she is taking a treasure trove of memories with her when she goes and I hate that. But if it’s painful for her to go back, or she finds it non-productive, or she can’t remember things well, whatever the reason, she doesn’t need an excuse as to why she’s not promoting things. she doesn’t need a reason. She’s 80 fucking years old and is doing what she wants to do. I’ve seen her show a bunch of times this year and she has been having a wonderful time on stage. In one city, she was thinking the security people in the backstage people by name. Shows are over 90 minutes again that’s been a long time since that happened. And she’s not sitting on the chair anymore. In my opinion, she has earned the right to do whatever she wants. I don’t understand her, but she has been sensational lately.

Make no mistake: it makes ZERO difference to me. Diana Ross could give two f*cks less about me, and trust me, I'm not staying up late at night thinking about her. But unlike a lot of rabid fans on this forum, I don't stick Diana Ross on a pedestal, thinking every burp and fart she makes should be a Number One record. Diana tapped out on recording in the late 80's, save for "Not Over You Yet" which I still think to this day should have been what "Believe" was to Cher. Why even bother recording with a karaoke background and a 25+ year old cover photo? Is this REALLY what the fans want? No. They want to see her in person, sequined and Aqua-netted to Jesus singing her hits. I am one of them. I'll never pass up an opportunity to see the diva, and I'll cry like a b*tch the entire time. But f*ck, ANY business person knows unless you're Taylor Swift, you better be ready to do some hard work to promote your product. Diana ain't doing it, and that's why she hasn't had a hit in 4 decades.

Boom.

[rod_rick]

Josephine Baker and Mary Wilson were introduced to each other by choreographer Geoffrey Holder in 1975, when he created The Supremes' new stage show.

I just listen to the Supremes Shubert show from 1975 and did the Supremes do their dream sequence before Diana?

[jobeterob]

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't believe that's the case at all. As others have stated, sometimes parents have strengths that may be great to the development of one child and not the other. Does that make them a terrible person and parent? No and they shouldn't be measured on how good of a person they are if a child happens to fall through the cracks or if they become a saint.

Diana has shown her children are the important things in her life and she's done a great job in raising five great people. It's clear her love and nurturing has played a huge part in their development and who they've become and speaks to who she is as a mother. Should we measure her purely based on on how her kids came out? No. There are other dimensions to her as a person like all of us. She's human like the rest of us where we are strong is some areas of life and weak on others.

Yes I totally agree on not measuring Diana on her kids only.

I actually was not making my comments with respect to Diana Ross; I was making them based on my own life and I’m not saying that being an arrogant dickhead. I had a pretty decent career and did fairly well - most of you know what I worked at.

But if I’d fucked up raising my kids, I would have been unbearably disappointed. But definitely it’s only one aspect of a life.

I guess how I feel causes me to always wonder why people as professionally successful as Gladys and Aretha so often complained about so many people and so many things.

But definitely children are only one factor in a life and sometimes things go wrong for the best of parents; I had several clients who had a child that became a victim of the opioid crisis and Mom and Dad were the best of people.

All this is only peripheral to Diana Ross but perhaps is about Reflections.

[Ollie9]

It’s worth remembering that the world considered Joan Crawford an exemplary mother up until her demise.

[sup_fan]

I just listen to the Supremes Shubert show from 1975 and did the Supremes do their dream sequence before Diana?

i believe the Shubert show was the debut of this new Supremes' act. Sept 75.

It looks like the whole "An Evening With Diana Ross" show started in spring 76 or so. and this included the "working girls" segment. the LA show that would eventually become the album An Evening With Diana Ross was i think recorded in Sept 76.

what i don't know is if she had expanded her blues songs prior to this. of course she'd been including her Lady songs for many years. but i don't know if she had started to dabble in Josephine, Ethel, and others.

also i don't know the lead time necessary for the development of such a massive new show. Joe Layton was the director of An Evening With and the two of them had collaborated on the design and structure of the extravaganza. if it went live in spring 76 that would mean it was in development several months prior.

but i think odds are the Sups and Mary were first with josephine.

[ejluther]

It’s worth remembering that the world considered Joan Crawford an exemplary mother up until her demise.

Well, it’s worth noting that two of Joan’s other children deny Christina Crawford’s tales of child abuse.
https://www.closerweekly.com/posts/j...e-and-cruelty/

“However, Joan’s younger twin daughters, Casey’s mother Cathy and his Aunt Cindy, always insisted that the depiction of Joan by Christina was a gross exaggeration if not an outright lie. “My mother and my Aunt Cindy, to their dying day, felt nothing but love for their mother,” Casey says in Closer‘s latest issue, on newsstands now. “They never experienced any abuse. It was a loving and caring household, and Joan was always very supportive of them.”: