Love Child [[the live version on Ed Sullivan)

[midnightman]

Loved this performance because Mary was GETTIN' IN! Diana so cool and Cindy being her sophisticated self.

One of my favorite Supremes Sullivan performances.

[reese]

I don't think the live performance here or on the FAREWELL album are as good as that on the single. When they did it live, they dropped the key slightly and IMO, it took away some of the excitement of the single.

[TheMotownManiac]

I don't think the live performance here or on the FAREWELL album are as good as that on the single. When they did it live, they dropped the key slightly and IMO, it took away some of the excitement of the single.

I always disliked the Farewell version. The arrangement is so empty, Ross’ vocal is perfunctory and the bgs weak. The 45 is the only way to hear it, but, on LP, Farewell is the worst. Does anyone like it?

[khansperac]

I like it. Regarding the background vocals, unfortunately that is what it sounds like with Mary and Cindy. The Andantes or whoever sang on the record sounded much better.

[RanRan79]

I like the visual of this performance better than the other one they did on Sullivan. I like Diana's lead here too. Unfortunately the backgrounds are weak as hell. I think Mary and Cindy were more than capable of singing backup on the actual record, but after hearing the Andantes do what they did, Mary and Cindy can't recreate that here. Mary and Florence could've, but not Mary and Cindy and it brings the performance down. But Mary looks great.

[rod_rick]

I like the visual of this performance better than the other one they did on Sullivan. I like Diana's lead here too. Unfortunately the backgrounds are weak as hell. I think Mary and Cindy were more than capable of singing backup on the actual record, but after hearing the Andantes do what they did, Mary and Cindy can't recreate that here. Mary and Florence could've, but not Mary and Cindy and it brings the performance down. But Mary looks great.

It puzzles me why the Mary and Cindy bg vocals are weak on the that high Aah. The Andante did a good job in the studio but I can honestly say the Love Child BG vocals are not that hard to recreate, because I did it on tape a long time ago and I din't find it to do hard at all. Overall I can appreciate the performance because it's DMC singing it.

[midnightman]

Eh, I love it. LOL just to hear DMC doing it.

[blackguy69]

As far as background vocals, no one took to account that there is an extra voice in the actual recording.

[rod_rick]

As far as background vocals, no one took to account that there is an extra voice in the actual recording.

Very good point about the 3rd voice in the background.

[marybrewster]

I think the other thing to consider is, at least to my ears, the bg on the single is equal in volume to Diana's lead. On this performance Cindy and Mary seem turned down quite a bit; Mary's "scorned by" line barely comes across as a smokey whisper.

[luke]

Exactly. How could they ever sound as powerful when there mics are turned down...hello? They did a great job considering. I mean they did let them stand next to Dinana!

[thanxal]

This is a wonderful performance. I love hearing Mary and Cindy. The hair, the pant suits, everything was perfect for this. It captured the times.

[marybrewster]

Cindy is really gettin' it here! And unless it's just me, is Diana the only one wearing earrings?

[Ollie9]

I really enjoy the mimed version they first perfomed on ES.
In this performance all three women look beautiful and sophisticated. The only real critique for me is that as opposed to the mimed performance, Diana looks way to happy here singing lyrics about illegitimacy. She could just as well be singing "The Happening"

[Jaap]

The only real critique for me is that as opposed to the mimed performance, Diana looks way to happy here singing lyrics about illegitimacy. She could just as well be singing "The Happening"

This made me chuckle, as "The Happening" may sound happy and full of fun, the lyrics are actually quite depressing and gloomy, much more than Love Child is, which actually has an optimistic view that history will not repeat itself. Obviously, "The Happening" is not an exception; many Supremes songs--as well as Diana solo ones--combine an upbeat "happy" sound with rather depressing lyrics; most notably "My World Is Empty Without You" but also "Love Is Here," "Come See About Me," and "Where Did Our Love Go." I always find the Supremes remakes by The Afghan Wigs so fascinating [[they did "My World Is Empty Without You" and "Come See About Me") as in their versions the music matches the "depressing" lyrics.

[luke]

I’ve often commented on this too. Mary also look joyful to be singing about the situation. Didn’t Cholly ever tell them to tone it down on sad lyrics??

[lucky2012]

Lol. Maybe they were just so happy celebrating their huge #1 hit on Ed Sullivan again.

[lucky2012]

This made me chuckle, as "The Happening" may sound happy and full of fun, the lyrics are actually quite depressing and gloomy, much more than Love Child is, which actually has an optimistic view that history will not repeat itself. Obviously, "The Happening" is not an exception; many Supremes songs--as well as Diana solo ones--combine an upbeat "happy" sound with rather depressing lyrics; most notably "My World Is Empty Without You" but also "Love Is Here," "Come See About Me," and "Where Did Our Love Go." I always find the Supremes remakes by The Afghan Wigs so fascinating [[they did "My World Is Empty Without You" and "Come See About Me") as in their versions the music matches the "depressing" lyrics.

I always enjoy and respect your input, Jaap. You're so right about The Happening, Come See About Me, Love Is Here, Where Did Our Love Go [[which is especially bouncy). But I always thought My World had a foreboding, gloomy, dramatic sound. Diana nailed the vocal. I remember hearing the single first and it was basically a Diana Ross solo record. I hope I don't start anything here, but I thought the single voice more effectively conveys the song's message of depression and loneliness.
Re: the Afghan Wigs I'm always surprised when I hear or learn about how various different artists cover a Supremes song. Phoebe Snow's cover of Going Down for the Third Time was the first time it really hit me. These artists obviously were listening to the Supremes. Ultimately, a true tribute to the group and, probably most of all, the greatness of Holland-Dozier-Holland.

[sansradio]

I’ve often commented on this too. Mary also look joyful to be singing about the situation. Didn’t Cholly ever tell them to tone it down on sad lyrics??

Diana said on Oprah in ‘93 that Berry said to her, “You’re smiling while singing ‘My Man’?! You’re not supposed to smile during ‘My Man’!”

[RanRan79]

It puzzles me why the Mary and Cindy bg vocals are weak on the that high Aah. The Andante did a good job in the studio but I can honestly say the Love Child BG vocals are not that hard to recreate, because I did it on tape a long time ago and I din't find it to do hard at all. Overall I can appreciate the performance because it's DMC singing it.

They aren't that hard to recreate by singers capable of recreating them. Lol Mary and Cindy were good background singers together. Adequate. They were at their best when Diana joined them in the harmony, like on the medley they did with Bing Crosby on his special and the Fats Waller Medley. The three of them had a beautiful sound. But without Diana you have two background singers incapable of doing anything Andantesque. Mary was good enough to actually join the Andantes, proven by the fact that for years some of those A Go Go tracks were sworn by fans to be Diana and the Andantes when in fact it turns out they were Mary and one Andante! During this time Mary's voice had issues in the lead. She really needed the absolute right song to showcase how good she actually was. But in the background, Mary was a beast. On the other hand, Cindy, despite her Bluebelle pedigree, wasn't that kind of a singer. Her voice was very soft. Pretty, but soft. And after Flo, who was a vocal beast in her own right, Cindy's soft sound wasn't cutting it. The Andantes did a beautiful job on "Love Child". I wouldn't say it was anything special, but it was really nice. They were as much a part of that record as Diana. So when Mary and Cindy come together to sing it, the sound falls short.

[RanRan79]

As far as background vocals, no one took to account that there is an extra voice in the actual recording.

This is true and normally would make a difference, however I don't think it really does in this case. Even with one more person singing with them Mary and Cindy weren't going to nail this one.

[RanRan79]

This made me chuckle, as "The Happening" may sound happy and full of fun, the lyrics are actually quite depressing and gloomy, much more than Love Child is, which actually has an optimistic view that history will not repeat itself. Obviously, "The Happening" is not an exception; many Supremes songs--as well as Diana solo ones--combine an upbeat "happy" sound with rather depressing lyrics; most notably "My World Is Empty Without You" but also "Love Is Here," "Come See About Me," and "Where Did Our Love Go." I always find the Supremes remakes by The Afghan Wigs so fascinating [[they did "My World Is Empty Without You" and "Come See About Me") as in their versions the music matches the "depressing" lyrics.

I wouldn't describe the sound on "My World", "Love Is Here" or "Where Did Our Love Go" as happy. I thought Diana's vocal on all three accurately captured the feelings of the lyrics.

[RanRan79]

Lol. Maybe they were just so happy celebrating their huge #1 hit on Ed Sullivan again.

Or happy that their monthly visitor had made an appearance and they weren't having to sing about a Love Child for real.

[RanRan79]

Diana said on Oprah in ‘93 that Berry said to her, “You’re smiling while singing ‘My Man’?! You’re not supposed to smile during ‘My Man’!”

Yes, she does this a lot. Always did. She'll smile when the song is not a smiling song. I remember seeing a video of her singing "Strange Fruit" acapella during Billie Holiday's induction into the hall of fame, and while Diana KILLED it, she did it with a bit of a smile on her face, and people commented about it in the comment section.

[Ollie9]

This made me chuckle, as "The Happening" may sound happy and full of fun, the lyrics are actually quite depressing and gloomy, much more than Love Child is, which actually has an optimistic view that history will not repeat itself. Obviously, "The Happening" is not an exception; many Supremes songs--as well as Diana solo ones--combine an upbeat "happy" sound with rather depressing lyrics; most notably "My World Is Empty Without You" but also "Love Is Here," "Come See About Me," and "Where Did Our Love Go." I always find the Supremes remakes by The Afghan Wigs so fascinating [[they did "My World Is Empty Without You" and "Come See About Me") as in their versions the music matches the "depressing" lyrics.

It's something i had never consciously thought about before. After reading your post i sat here mentally replaying the lyrics to "The Happening" in my head and your right, there not exactly a bundle of laughs lol. Perhaps i should have compared to "I Hear A Symphony instead. Thinking about it i suppose even "You Can't Hurry Love Has It's down side when you concentrate on the lyrics alone. Unrequited love has always been popular it would seem.

[lucky2012]

Or happy that their monthly visitor had made an appearance and they weren't having to sing about a Love Child for real.

We've got a winner!

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t care for Mary and Cindy on record period. Even with JMC they had to be sweetened quite often - Cindy’s voice is just plain too soft and non descriptive while Mary has the goods in spades. I can’t think of a single record that I like the sound of them on alone - except maybe EGTRTL And even though they sound weak and bland on that, it works… But I think the record would’ve done better with the richer sound

[TheMotownManiac]

And Mary often overshadows Cindy live… She has to really adjust her volume down which she doesn’t always do in order to blend but that’s OK because I think it sounds better with Mary’s voiced standing out. And I don’t think it mattered at all when they were replacing Flo what Cindy’s voice sounded like because they knew they didn’t need to use them in the studio and the adjustments could be made any arrangements live.

[midnightman]

Yes, she does this a lot. Always did. She'll smile when the song is not a smiling song. I remember seeing a video of her singing "Strange Fruit" acapella during Billie Holiday's induction into the hall of fame, and while Diana KILLED it, she did it with a bit of a smile on her face, and people commented about it in the comment section.

There was one time she did "My Man" and at least during the part where she discusses the man's issues, she tried hard to show intense emotion and I think she actually succeeded. Especially when it came to the line of "he beats me too". She paused and said "I hate that line."

And tears were streaming down her face saying it was a "hard song" for her to do. And that was in 1979 when she and BG were going through their issues prior to her leaving Motown the first time.

[RanRan79]

I don’t care for Mary and Cindy on record period. Even with JMC they had to be sweetened quite often - Cindy’s voice is just plain too soft and non descriptive while Mary has the goods in spades. I can’t think of a single record that I like the sound of them on alone - except maybe EGTRTL And even though they sound weak and bland on that, it works… But I think the record would’ve done better with the richer sound

As a unit, Mary and Cindy together are not among my favorite background vocalists. However they have some nice moments. "He's My Sunny Boy" is one of my favs to hear them on. In fact I would say they're my favorite part of the record. When they finally do appear on "Stay In My Lonely Arms", I think they sound great and really don't understand why the Andantes were recorded on it at all. And they do a wonderful job on the original versions of the Funny Girl songs, although I do think there are parts that could've benefited from being sweetened, but they didn't need to be replaced.

But Cindy was no Flo and because of that the backgrounds take a dive, which is why I believe the Andantes [[and others) were being used so frequently post Flo's departure.

[Jaap]

I wouldn't describe the sound on "My World", "Love Is Here" or "Where Did Our Love Go" as happy. I thought Diana's vocal on all three accurately captured the feelings of the lyrics.

Yes, I would agree. I'm not so familiar with the right musical terms. What I meant is the discrepancy between the upbeat music and the "gloomy" lyrics.

[sup_fan]

I don’t care for Mary and Cindy on record period. Even with JMC they had to be sweetened quite often - Cindy’s voice is just plain too soft and non descriptive while Mary has the goods in spades. I can’t think of a single record that I like the sound of them on alone - except maybe EGTRTL And even though they sound weak and bland on that, it works… But I think the record would’ve done better with the richer sound

to my ear, Cindy is a 2nd soprano and works wonderfully with that middle note. during the DMC era though, she was often having to sing the top harmony which isn't her strongest ability. during the MJC era, she shifted back to 2nd while Jean took the top note in the backgrounds of the records. Like in Stoned Love, when jean sings "i pray for love and peace, Amen" and the backgrounds soar, that's jean on the top note.

To really have the Love Child backgrounds work, you need not only a 1st soprano but one with considerable upper vocal range. the Andantes had it, Jean, Scherrie, Susaye and Lynda did. it's not just about being able to reach the note but to attack it at a vocal entrance. it's easier if you're singing and build your way up to the note. in LC, you're just coming in on it. you need to do it cleanly and in tune. not easy

With the right material, i think cindy sounds great. but no one was writing for her in mind

[midnightman]

Shows you what Flo brought to the table as a member. Much respect to Cindy though.

But I do agree that they could've done Cindy justice with her voice. Some of the songs she sang I don't think fit her.

[floyjoy678]

For the longest time my sister swore that Love Child was recorded right before Flo left. She was convinced that was Flo hitting the high notes lol.

[midnightman]

^ You know before I knew about the Supremes in and out, I assumed the same thing.

But then again I was like five, six, seven, etc. So of course.

I mean I thought Eddie was singing on Papa Was a Rolling Stone. LMAO it happens.

[marybrewster]

The story goes that "LC" was written so quickly that Berry didn't want to wait for Mary to return from vacation to record. Something along those lines anyway.

But why no Cindy? Was the thought if Mary wasn't there, then why bother?

[RanRan79]

Shows you what Flo brought to the table as a member.

Absolutely. Flo and Mary had a great sound together. A lot of chemistry between them, probably coming from the fact that they had been singing together for so long. In order to keep that sound the person replacing Flo had to have a similar voice. Cindy was a soprano but she didn't sound like Florence and wasn't capable of doing what Florence could do. I don't know what Marlene Barrow's stage presence was like, but it seems as though vocally she was probably the best replacement for Florence [[and probably the reason she was chosen to replace Flo not only on a few sessions during A Go Go but also the first time Flo "needed" a replacement on stage). Marlene and Mary had a great blend and I think post Flo the two of them would've kept the great sound that Flo and Mary had, going into the DRATS period. The music missed Florence.

[RanRan79]

The story goes that "LC" was written so quickly that Berry didn't want to wait for Mary to return from vacation to record. Something along those lines anyway.

But why no Cindy? Was the thought if Mary wasn't there, then why bother?

If Berry had really wanted the actual Supremes on the record, they would've been on the record. No disrespect to Mary's recollections, but I wonder if the "Love Child" story in her book made for good drama but wasn't exactly the truth. I mean, why bother with Mary and Cindy for "Love Child" when you didn't bother with them for "Forever Came Today" or "Somethings You Never Get Used To"? Even though Gordy probably never had any intention of using Mary and Cindy on "Love Child", because we've heard that he was definitely into mind games, it's possible that he used the "Love Child" recording session in the hopes of controlling Mary's plans to vacation. If she says fine, she'll stay, she still wouldn't have been on the record. If she says no, she's leaving, then Gordy can say "see, if you had stayed you would've been on this smash, that's why you should always do what I tell you".

But if no one is going to be bothered with Mary, whatever the reason, there's no reason to be bothered with Cindy, not when you can call up the Andantes or the Blackberries and get the damn thing done.

[lucky2012]

Shows you what Flo brought to the table as a member.

Yes. I can't imagine The Supremes without Flo.
Long Gone Lover [[the first time I heard it I wondered who is that powerful voice at the end?).
Ain't That Good News? [[A great vocal that closes We Remember Sam Cooke perfectly.)
I know some here don't like Buttered Popcorn, but I think it is one of the best of the early "no-hit" Supremes, along with Your Heart Belongs to Me, Baby Don't Go and The Tears.
I wish we could have had more Florence leads on the albums.
[[As she was basically the founder of the group, why wasn't she given a lead as a Primette?)

[lucky2012]

If Berry had really wanted the actual Supremes on the record, they would've been on the record....I mean, why bother with Mary and Cindy for "Love Child" when you didn't bother with them for "Forever Came Today" or "Somethings You Never Get Used To"?.... if no one is going to be bothered with Mary, whatever the reason, there's no reason to be bothered with Cindy, not when you can call up the Andantes or the Blackberries and get the damn thing done.

Berry Gordy really wanted a huge #1 hit and I think he knew how he wanted the record to sound. I think he and the Motown writers and producers turned to the Andantes often to fulfill their visions because they provided excellent vocal back-up and three-part harmonies. The Andantes weren't necessary for most of the Supremes'
output but the classic group was no more by the time of Love Child. Love Child is a very polished record and I'm sure it was tweaked "to perfection'. I personally love the record, with no disrespect to Mary and Cindy. It accomplished exactly what Berry Gordy wanted it to. [[Now, if only he and the Clan could have come up with a worthy follow-up!)

[rod_rick]

If Berry had really wanted the actual Supremes on the record, they would've been on the record. No disrespect to Mary's recollections, but I wonder if the "Love Child" story in her book made for good drama but wasn't exactly the truth. I mean, why bother with Mary and Cindy for "Love Child" when you didn't bother with them for "Forever Came Today" or "Somethings You Never Get Used To"? Even though Gordy probably never had any intention of using Mary and Cindy on "Love Child", because we've heard that he was definitely into mind games, it's possible that he used the "Love Child" recording session in the hopes of controlling Mary's plans to vacation. If she says fine, she'll stay, she still wouldn't have been on the record. If she says no, she's leaving, then Gordy can say "see, if you had stayed you would've been on this smash, that's why you should always do what I tell you".

But if no one is going to be bothered with Mary, whatever the reason, there's no reason to be bothered with Cindy, not when you can call up the Andantes or the Blackberries and get the damn thing done.

To be fair by 1968 the Andantes were doing the majority of the backing vocals for The Velvelettes, The Vandellas, The Marvelettes, and The Supremes so it's not a stretch to question why Mary & Cindy were not on the recording.

[blackguy69]

I recall in the case if Somethings.... Valerie Simpson said said they didn’t have time to teach Mary and Cindy the bg parts and it was quicker to do it themselves.

[LoveSupreme]

I recall in the case if Somethings.... Valerie Simpson said said they didn’t have time to teach Mary and Cindy the bg parts and it was quicker to do it themselves.

I don't buy that reason. The background parts to "Somethings You Never Get Used To" are not complicated. It's a basic call out and response arrangement and generally repeating a word or phrase the lead has sung. An accomplished background singer could sing it in their sleep.

[marv2]

Also remember, Mary and Cindy were living in LA by 1968. Motown was still doing the majority of it's recording back in Detroit.

[LoveSupreme]

Also remember, Mary and Cindy were living in LA by 1968. Motown was still doing the majority of it's recording back in Detroit.

I don't buy this either because so was Diana. They flew all over the country not to mention the world.

Flying out the lead to do the recording in Detroit was a whole hell of a lot cheaper than flying all three of them. IMO, Gordy just didn't want to be bothered, by this time any sense of a group dynamic did not exist - anyone in the background would do at this point.The public couldn't tell the difference anyway. From 1968 on the public was basically purchasing what were technically Diana Ross solo recordings that were labeled as "Diana Ross & the Supremes" recordings.

[blackguy69]

Frank Wilson had said it was supposed to have been Mary, Cindy and the Andantes on the record. Now here is the question I always had on my mind. Did Mary take off for LA before it was written or was the song ready for recording when she left. That part of the story was never pointed out.

[blackguy69]

Calling you out marv, Cindy was in Detroit during the recording and hadn’t moved to LA yet. Mary was closing on her house that week that’s why she wasn’t there and then went to Mexico.

[RanRan79]

Berry Gordy really wanted a huge #1 hit and I think he knew how he wanted the record to sound. I think he and the Motown writers and producers turned to the Andantes often to fulfill their visions because they provided excellent vocal back-up and three-part harmonies. The Andantes weren't necessary for most of the Supremes'
output but the classic group was no more by the time of Love Child. Love Child is a very polished record and I'm sure it was tweaked "to perfection'. I personally love the record, with no disrespect to Mary and Cindy. It accomplished exactly what Berry Gordy wanted it to. [[Now, if only he and the Clan could have come up with a worthy follow-up!)

I agree, which is why I'm not buying that he ever wanted Mary and Cindy on the recording. I also agree about a worthy follow up. I really don't like "I'm Livin In Shame". "Keep An Eye" would have been a more worthy follow up if they wanted to stick to message songs. I think "Keep An Eye" could've been a hit.

[RanRan79]

To be fair by 1968 the Andantes were doing the majority of the backing vocals for The Velvelettes, The Vandellas, The Marvelettes, and The Supremes so it's not a stretch to question why Mary & Cindy were not on the recording.

Right, but that's the issue with the story Mary tells of Gordy wanting her to stick around to be on the record instead of going on vacation. At this point all of the label's big name girl groups were the Andantes and a lead singer on record, so why be so concerned about Mary going on vacation?

[jobucats]

A couple of observations. First, this is one of my favorite performances, vocally and visually, of Diana on the Sullivan show. No, I am not crazy about the pant suits, nor is the song one of my favorites. It's just something about the presentation itself. Diana appears, as Midnight stated, so cool. There's a certain maturity in the way she is carrying herself.

Regarding the single itself and who is and is not singing the background vocals...It sounds like to me that Diana herself is singing along with the background vocals on the phrase right leading up to the climatic "ah." Just my ears, I guess. That "ah" is so distinctive.