The Supremes, Smokey Robinson - Someday We'll Be Together

[sup_fan]

but Everybody was recorded in late April and then rushed onto Right On. I think it was always the intent to release it as a single [[why, personally, I don't know lol) and there was considerable excitement with the team.

the tv specials were taped many months in advance. it's quite possible that by the time they were taping, they knew Everybody was going to be the next single but hadn't had a chance to prepare the charts for the live band, prepare choreography, etc. The girls were traveling HEAVILY during this time and pretty much all of May was devoted to recording sessions with the 4 Tops.

[Thornton]

I understand $$$ was tight for the group in the 70's, but what I don't understand is: you can walk into Macy's today and find quality, sexy, sparkling gowns for less than $200 each. 40 years ago, that number had to be around $50 to $75. So why commission these expensive gowns when you can literally buy off the rack? And why wear the "same old" when you can inexpensively update a wardrobe. Was $$$ THAT tight?

I wonder if for Mary it was hard to go back to off the rack dresses after all the iconic gowns the group got to wear in the 60's. I agree it would have been much smarter to continually update their wardrobe with less expensive outfits, or just wear a smaller set of new, designer outfits more frequently. Some outfits, like the red sequined jumpsuits from Ed Sullivan, and the white bugle bead gowns still looked good on MSS, but for the most part the majority of their wardrobe should have been retired after a few years.

As far as the bat wing pantsuits from this video, I don't know why they couldn't fit Diana's poncho for Jean as it wasn't all that form-fitting, but the group still looks great, and the pantsuits were only a year old if that, so at least in style. There's also a genuine group rapport that makes these clips fun to watch.

[sup_fan]

given the late 70s and disco, the girls should have tried to go more contemporary with their wardrobe. Imagine if Halston had designed for them. or Yves Saint Laurent. wrap dresses, halter tops with spandex pants or harem pants. gold chain belts. They still could have been glam and sequin. just ditch the "gone with the wind" ball gowns.

if they'd adjusted their show and the flow of songs, they could have segmented things to still include other outfits. maybe the part where mary does her spotlight, they do the 60s medley, etc. something where they're not doing their fast, coordinated moves. then do a change and move into another section of the show.

there's a pic that's been floating around of MSS sitting in cut off jean shorts, t's and hats. it's cool, hip and very 70s. they look sensational. the shorts are probably hot pants, to be honest. but so what - they were sexy ladies and it was of the time

JMC also had a red and blue halter top and hot pant outfit. with silver sequin stars on the pants and red lace up shoes. and there's the short white Central Park dresses. for specific venues, these looks were great too. contemporary and flashy

[TheMotownManiac]

Jean and Florence both had better figures than Diana Ross who had NO figure whatsoever. She was built like a pre-teen boy. She was flat in the front and back. It took a lot of work to make her look like a "Supreme" LOL!!!! There were more than a few times where I thought Jean was hot. Florence was always hot! Florence had the curves I like. She was stacked like a woman should be in a perfect World.

Diana was flat in front only - she always had a nice ass. Mary is the one who wore a fake butt that folks made fun of - she wore falsies also until she had implants.

I agree about Flo’s bod - she was hit until she got too heavy. She looked like a billion on Hollywood Palace nov 66

[TheMotownManiac]

As far as the stage gear, does anyone here really think they were going to replace their entire wardrobe just because Diana left?

No one is saying you should replace your entire wardrobe…… What we are saying is that it is a mistake, a great big mistake, for Jean to wear Diana‘s old gowns while the group is trying to establish themselves. They could’ve come up with half a dozen outfits to use for TV album covers and publicity shots and things… It just would’ve looked better. I was very disappointed when I saw what they were wearing on the right on album cover. They could’ve still used the old gowns in concert if they wanted to, but for the general public for national and international exposure, in my opinion, it was crazy to retread the old gowns for publicity purposes. Plus, there’s a cheesiness factor of inserting Jean into Ross’ dresses.

One of the reasons is because of the topic of this very conversation: the green dress was designed for Diana the other two were for the background singers I just looked dumb to use them this way… If they had nothing else to wear, they should’ve chosen another old gown Or wear the red pants suits… Anything but this silliness…just made them look stupid … Just about every TV appearance they made cost them more fans than they garnered. There are exceptions like at sullivan…

[sup_fan]

The new sups actually had a lot of new outfits and in 1970 too. There was the red pantsuit from Sullivan. The white ponchos from Andy Williams. The gold pantsuits and green fringe pantsuit from tom Jones. The lavendar ones from flip Wilson. Then in 71 there was the brown sequin pantsuit w feather coat. The short white Central Park dresses. The white bugle beads. The lavender sequin gowns. The yellow gowns. The red hexagon ones. Then several hot pant outfits. The peach ones.

Given all of these ud think they would have been more prominent in photos. Lp covers. Tv shows.

[marybrewster]

No one is saying you should replace your entire wardrobe…… What we are saying is that it is a mistake, a great big mistake, for Jean to wear Diana‘s old gowns while the group is trying to establish themselves. They could’ve come up with half a dozen outfits to use for TV album covers and publicity shots and things… It just would’ve looked better. I was very disappointed when I saw what they were wearing on the right on album cover. They could’ve still used the old gowns in concert if they wanted to, but for the general public for national and international exposure, in my opinion, it was crazy to retread the old gowns for publicity purposes. Plus, there’s a cheesiness factor of inserting Jean into Ross’ dresses.

One of the reasons is because of the topic of this very conversation: the green dress was designed for Diana the other two were for the background singers I just looked dumb to use them this way… If they had nothing else to wear, they should’ve chosen another old gown Or wear the red pants suits… Anything but this silliness…just made them look stupid … Just about every TV appearance they made cost them more fans than they garnered. There are exceptions like at sullivan…

I still can't get past the "Right On" cover. Rows and rows of missing beads.

[TheMotownManiac]

That’s entirely my point. The beads weren’t missing - I think they are just stretched out as it doesn’t fit well. I love those dresses so much and Mary looks killer in hers - as did Ross - but for the cover of their first album...................I’m not 100% but it was a nice pic. I wish they had done something slightly less glam and more fashion forward.

[midnightman]

Didn't the Supremes try to change up for one of the early Terrell albums? I think the one that was New Ways but Love Stays was gonna feature them in their Afros and black turtleneck sweaters [[aka the Black Panthers) but because they still had a huge white following, Motown risked backlash and forced them to use a glam pic to compare the two [[since both pics were on the same cover)...

It seems if they wanted to change, Motown wouldn't let them?

[Thornton]

Didn't the Supremes try to change up for one of the early Terrell albums? I think the one that was New Ways but Love Stays was gonna feature them in their Afros and black turtleneck sweaters [[aka the Black Panthers) but because they still had a huge white following, Motown risked backlash and forced them to use a glam pic to compare the two [[since both pics were on the same cover)...

It seems if they wanted to change, Motown wouldn't let them?

Mary does bring up this issue in "Supreme Faith". The album was also supposed to be titled "Stoned Love", but Motown again feared controversy. I've also heard the song is really "Stone Love", but there was a printing error and the name stuck. Not sure if that's true or not, but it certainly changes the connotations folks might have with the song's meaning.

It seems like the group also tried to present a more "natural" image by wearing their own clothes on David Frost's show. I certainly prefer Jean in this look than in DRATS outfits.

[TheMotownManiac]

The Supremes took lots of publicity shots and the art dept did the visual concepts. JMC had nothing to do or say about their covers and I’m sure never tried to influence them one way or the other. Mary said lots of things in her books after-the-fact. No one at Motown did until Miss Ross approved the TMITM cover. I don’t know if anybSupremes groupings had any input, but I doubt it.

[sup_fan]

I'd guess that Mary and Pedro had much more involvement in the photo selection and cover design in the later 70s. not total control like Diana had at RCA but I'd assume more than previous Sup lineups

Susaye mentioned a while ago in a post that she and Scherrie were not highly involved in the direction of the group. from gown selection to performance content

[drlorne]

When they were promoting Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love, they looked very dated [[even their wigs) on Sonny and Cher, but looked youthful, vibrant and very sexy on the Flip Wilson show. [[short white dresses with lots of cleavage and legs). Interesting, how the visual changes the impression.

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t know who was in charge during The Pedro Years, but Motown had final say. I liked the MSS cover except that it emphasized that the group was just three women called The Supremes......many folks didn’t even know who Mary was - too bad as the album had great stuff on it and Mary shined. That’s why I think high-energy did well because without faces all you had was the familiar pose which I think Drew people who love the group to it.

[sup_fan]

I have an old fan club magazine, I think they originally announced the final lp as Scherrie, Mary & Susaye.

And agree - Motown's promotion and art depts would have had final say. I'm just guessing that Pedro and mary were more involved with providing direction to them than previous Sup lineups.

they definitely were searching for an identity when Lynda joined. that's around the same time they did a big 180 with their show and pulled out all sorts of DRATS garbage like TCB, Somewhere, You're Nobody. and the 70s hits got even less prominence - all wedged into a medley, except for Stoned. Those S&C dresses were new for the MJL lineup. they might have looked a bit more youthful had they ditched the feather bolero jackets. The short Flip dresses are great and that's a wonderful performance of YWSSL. Then they had those long dark purple gowns for Lean on Me on flip. the crazy floral gowns used in LA and then those bland chiffon ones on Kate Smith. although not my fav, the floral ones might have been the more contemporary. They were definitely not consistent in how they should present themselves

another story is the Operation PUSH concert in Chicago. apparently the Sups did they're vegas-y show and got lukewarm response from the mostly black and younger audience. Although Mary's book says they went over well and were unfortunately cut from the video broadcast, others have said they didn't.

[Boogiedown]

......but enough about Smokey
............lol!

[sup_fan]

......but enough about Smokey
............lol!

haha - frankly I have to say I don't think the combo of Smokey and the Supremes ever really found it's stride. regardless of who was in the group. There's the pre-WDOLG stuff which is perfectly fine and nice, but sounds like the Sups doing Mary Wells covers.

Then in the DRATS era, I found just about all of their smokey tunes sub-par. obviously The Composer is hideous lol. But Treat Me Nice John Henry, Will This Be The Day, He's My Sunny Boy, Are You Sure Love, Sweet Thing are all lackluster IMO.

The Floy Joy set is about the strongest overall Smokey work. But I wouldn't list it as the best of MJC either.

There are a few tunes I really like - Long Gone Lover. After All is a fav from the very early sessions, but mostly cuz it's a shared lead amongst all 4 girls.

[RanRan79]

obviously The Composer is hideous lol.

Says who? I love the song. I think everything about it is beautiful. But it was a HORRIBLE choice for a single. ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Perhaps the worst choice for a single during any Supremes era, IMO.

But I agree about the Supremes and Smokey. It just wasn't a good match, his productions and the group, as far as churning out spectacular cuts that could sell millions, like his marriages with Mary Wells and the Tempts, even the Marvelettes, to a lesser degree. But I do think he gave the girls quality songs, but mostly album filler.

On the other hand, he did produce what is probably my favorite Supremes single, "A Breath Taking Guy". Go figure.

[midnightman]

^ Breath Taking Guy and Floy Joy were the only Smokey-penned songs that the Supremes shined on. Real talk.

[sup_fan]

I guess my biggest nitpick with Smokey is his choice of lyrics. yes, yes. I know Dylan and others refer to him as a poetic genius. but, for my taste, his lyrics often get too silly and ridiculous. maybe they're just too poetic

He's My Sunny Boy - "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!!"

The Composer - "you may not know what quarter notes are or what I mean by four to the bar. HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!"

Will This Be the Day - sitting and combing her hair, drawing her bath

They're just goofy lolol. maybe not as bad as poor Diana's mother tripping over unrolled stockings and dropping dead into her pot of homemade jam. but they're bad

To me, songs like Symphony, My World, Someday, Ladder are very descriptive. create great illustrations in your mind. but without being corny.

[gman]

The Composer was a weak choice for a single. It would have worked better as a departure sounding ending to one side of a LP featuring 4 or 5 previous strong songs....would have been something different like Kiss Me Now ending the side on DR 1976. Those 3 singles on the Let The Sunshine In LP get a lot of flak...

[marv2]

Says who? I love the song. I think everything about it is beautiful. But it was a HORRIBLE choice for a single. ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Perhaps the worst choice for a single during any Supremes era, IMO.

But I agree about the Supremes and Smokey. It just wasn't a good match, his productions and the group, as far as churning out spectacular cuts that could sell millions, like his marriages with Mary Wells and the Tempts, even the Marvelettes, to a lesser degree. But I do think he gave the girls quality songs, but mostly album filler.

On the other hand, he did produce what is probably my favorite Supremes single, "A Breath Taking Guy". Go figure.

I think Smokey did a great job with the "Floy Joy" album.

[marv2]

I guess my biggest nitpick with Smokey is his choice of lyrics. yes, yes. I know Dylan and others refer to him as a poetic genius. but, for my taste, his lyrics often get too silly and ridiculous. maybe they're just too poetic

He's My Sunny Boy - "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!!"

The Composer - "you may not know what quarter notes are or what I mean by four to the bar. HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!"

Will This Be the Day - sitting and combing her hair, drawing her bath

They're just goofy lolol. maybe not as bad as poor Diana's mother tripping over unrolled stockings and dropping dead into her pot of homemade jam. but they're bad

To me, songs like Symphony, My World, Someday, Ladder are very descriptive. create great illustrations in your mind. but without being corny.

FACT: It wasn't Bob Dylan that originally came up with that tag for Smokey "The Greatest Living Poet". That came from my friend Mr. Al Abrams! He made that one up and Dylan used it during a taped interview.

[TomatoTom123]

I think I've read that Bob Dylan never actually said, or came up with, that phrase... even though I totally agree with it.

Ah there you go Marv has explained all

Anyway I think Smokey did some great stuff with The Supremes... as mentioned the Floy Joy album, which is great... "The Composer", which I love... "Sunny Boy", which I also love. Maybe the Smokey material seems lesser because of all the hit Holland-Dozier-Holland stuff The Supremes had. And there was a lot of that.

[midnightman]

Yeah Dylan never came up with that.

[marv2]

I think I've read that Bob Dylan never actually said, or came up with, that phrase... even though I totally agree with it.

Ah there you go Marv has explained all

Anyway I think Smokey did some great stuff with The Supremes... as mentioned the Floy Joy album, which is great... "The Composer", which I love... "Sunny Boy", which I also love. Maybe the Smokey material seems lesser because of all the hit Holland-Dozier-Holland stuff The Supremes had. And there was a lot of that.

He, Bob Dylan said it and there is a video tape of him on Youtube saying it. I think it was from a 60 minutes interview. In any case, they used the clip of Bob Dylan saying that in the "Motown 40, The Music Is Forever" television special from 1998. But Al Abrams came up with the phrase.

[marybrewster]

I wonder why during the banter between Smokey and the Supremes, that Cindy wasn't given a line?

[marv2]

I wonder why during the banter between Smokey and the Supremes, that Cindy wasn't given a line?

She got a line and a laugh later in the program when they were all sitting around looking at "pictures" and Smokey claimed on of them was of Cindy, nude..but it was her baby picture. They all later took turns singing songs written by Smokey.

[RanRan79]

^ Breath Taking Guy and Floy Joy were the only Smokey-penned songs that the Supremes shined on. Real talk.

I think they shined on a few more than that. "Your Heart Belongs to Me" being one, which also happened to be the cut that got the girls on the chart and IMO was the first recording that really gives listeners a clue as to what they might accomplish in the future. Dare I say it's the first cut they recorded that seemed to usher them out of the teen girl mode of "Popcorn" and "DJ Shows" into a more sophisticated sound.

Other Smokey songs that I think they shined on are "Mr. Blues", "Take Me Where You Go" and "Long Gone Lover". There are some others that I like, but these I would categorize as "shine".

[midnightman]

I think they shined on a few more than that. "Your Heart Belongs to Me" being one, which also happened to be the cut that got the girls on the chart and IMO was the first recording that really gives listeners a clue as to what they might accomplish in the future. Dare I say it's the first cut they recorded that seemed to usher them out of the teen girl mode of "Popcorn" and "DJ Shows" into a more sophisticated sound.

Other Smokey songs that I think they shined on are "Mr. Blues", "Take Me Where You Go" and "Long Gone Lover". There are some others that I like, but these I would categorize as "shine".

I forgot YHBTM. You're right! I also forgot he did Long Gone Lover for them. *DOH*

[RanRan79]

I guess my biggest nitpick with Smokey is his choice of lyrics. yes, yes. I know Dylan and others refer to him as a poetic genius. but, for my taste, his lyrics often get too silly and ridiculous. maybe they're just too poetic

He's My Sunny Boy - "looks good in everything from silk to corduroy. or mohair!!"

The Composer - "you may not know what quarter notes are or what I mean by four to the bar. HEY! HEY! HEY! HEY!"

Will This Be the Day - sitting and combing her hair, drawing her bath

They're just goofy lolol. maybe not as bad as poor Diana's mother tripping over unrolled stockings and dropping dead into her pot of homemade jam. but they're bad

To me, songs like Symphony, My World, Someday, Ladder are very descriptive. create great illustrations in your mind. but without being corny.

It's hard to stomach someone referring to Smokey's lyrics as corny, but if that's how they affect you... But seriously, I guess they can be a bit syrupy. But I love it.

[RanRan79]

I think Smokey did a great job with the "Floy Joy" album.

Agreed. I can listen to the album all the way through, though I really don't care for "Now the Bitter" [[there has to be an outtake in the vaults that's better than that song) or "Oh Be My Love", but I can listen to those two songs without cringing. I frequently specifically play "Automatically Sunshine", "A Heart Like Mine", "Precious Little Things" and "Wisdom of Time".