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  1. #1

    I Ain't Been Licked!



    One of my all time favorite songs from La Ross...

  2. #2
    Anything Ashford and Simpson wrote for her is my favorite.

  3. #3
    ^ I agree. They REALLY understood Diana. Everything sizzled between Diana and A&S!

  4. #4
    Loved the live version of this she did in that HBO concert special around 1979/80.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post


    One of my all time favorite songs from La Ross...
    Mine too. This should have been the follow up single to"the boss". Great song, great production and great vocals. This song had everything. In my top 10 of Diana tunes for sure. A&S really knew how to get the best out of Diana.

  6. #6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M82FZV5CzBE
    Diana Ross - I Ain't Been Licked [Unreleased 12" mix]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4vWVjw9cI

    Jennifer Holliday Covers Diana Ross: "I Ain't Been Licked" - BB King Blues Club New York, NY 9/26/14

  7. #7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYopkM1VKrc

    DIANA ROSS LIVE AT CAESAR'S PALACE

  8. #8
    Great one from a perfect LP. Diana 'toe it up live on tour that summer - as I recall it was the second song in the set and a perfect statement -

  9. #9
    One of my favs. And ditto the comments regarding Diana and A&S's pairing. What a shame there wasn't more collabs between them. I still think that at least one of her RCA albums should have been produced by them.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    One of my favs. And ditto the comments regarding Diana and A&S's pairing. What a shame there wasn't more collabs between them. I still think that at least one of her RCA albums should have been produced by them.
    I'm getting the feeling that was one of the reasons Diana went BACK to Motown because RCA wouldn't fully let her do what she wanted. Like she was allowed to produce but apparently didn't want A&S around her, I can believe that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I'm getting the feeling that was one of the reasons Diana went BACK to Motown because RCA wouldn't fully let her do what she wanted. Like she was allowed to produce but apparently didn't want A&S around her, I can believe that.
    She went back to Motown because her RCA years were a complete bust/flop. The failure was her own doing. As a fan I was appalled at what Ross was trying to sell me. Where was her mind? IMHO, she never completely recovered from that horrific period of garbage recordings and performances. Sadly, she got licked at RCA.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 03-29-2018 at 08:08 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    She went back to Motown because her RCA years were a complete bust/flop. The failure was her own doing. As a fan I was appalled at what Ross was trying to sell me. Where was her mind? IMHO, she never completely recovered from that horrific period of garbage recordings and performances. Sadly, she got licked at RCA.
    The Ross album was definitely a flop, but some of her material there was great.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I'm getting the feeling that was one of the reasons Diana went BACK to Motown because RCA wouldn't fully let her do what she wanted. Like she was allowed to produce but apparently didn't want A&S around her, I can believe that.
    RCA had zero input on her recordings. She owed them 6 or 7 albums and they couldn’t say boo about them. They did refuse to release Central Park Live on the grounds her contract specified studio work. She left RCA because she floundered horribly with only one truly commercial collection: Swept Away. While she enjoyed a lot of success with various RCA tracks overseas, she, for the most part, sucked hind tit here in The USA with iffy LP sales, Swept Away nearly platinum or maybe is by now, sold on its own merits. WDFFIL was helped a great deal by following Diana and having Endless Love on it. I don’t think it would gave gone nearly double platinum on the strength of Fools and Mirror Mirror. Silk Electric did well for a one hit wonder and follow up blunder. ROSS, even with Central Park exposure couldn’t get gold. Eaten could have worked but didn’t and Red Hot is a Red hot mess of epic proportions............what could she have been thinking?

    Still, it gave her financial security and selling out 100s of arenas world wide with a cheap show tripled that. Better to be secure than an artiste! Also, she was raising three daughters, got married to a man with three of his own kids, they had nothing to do with show business whatsoever, and I don’t think she ever really had time to sit down and plan a killer album. She did herself in, but so what? She’s happy. You don’t see her giving interviews complaining about things like how she was treated or blah blah blah blah blah she took her decline gracefully, with class, and living life on her terms which is all any of us can ask for in the end.

  14. #14
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    She is still doing a cheap show with ancient arrangements, old tired gowns, and a minimal band.

    Legacy is worth more than money, and hers was certainly curtailed by her wreckless RCA career decisions. She never recovered. In my humble opinion, she is not the same fabulous diva as she was at Motown. The lady took a bad lickin’, no doubt about it.
    Last edited by Circa 1824; 03-31-2018 at 08:21 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Circa 1824 View Post
    She is still doing a cheap show with ancient arrangements, old tired gowns, and a minimal band.

    Legacy is worth more than money, and hers was certainly curtailed by her wreckless RCA career decisions. She never recovered. In my humble opinion, she is not the same fabulous diva as she was at Motown. The lady took a bad lickin’, no doubt about it.
    Nah lol
    That's not true. At all.

  16. #16
    Great song. Kinda funny.

  17. #17
    I think Why Do Fools and Swept away are fairly strong albums. certainly not her most amazing but I'd but them on par (or almost on par) with Touch Me and Diana Ross 76. certainly better than Last Time or Ross 78. Silk and Ross 83 had potential but she's just not pushing herself (or being pushed by the producers) to really make the magic happen. Red Hot is a bit of a mess, down with the likes of Everything is Everything and Last Time. My least fav though is Eaten Alive. I just do NOT like her vocals on it. they're muffled and garbled. and her nasal tone is a grating against the nasal falsettos of the Gibbs.

  18. #18
    I like Chain Reaction and Eaten Alive... BUT I see what you mean. The Gibb's high register and Diana's didn't fit.

  19. #19
    I recall an article many years ago where Diana said that The Boss album was one of her favorites, and she would often play it while roller skating in Central Park. This mini-article was accompanied by a picture of her skating in a yellowish body suit.

  20. #20
    Leaving Motown was the best career move Diana Ross made in her life. She was allowed to bring forth a couple of hit singles and albums and now she had money in the bank with her name on it.

  21. #21
    The RCA years were far from being a total flop. Most artists would love to have the success Diana Ross had at RCA. A platinum album, 2 Gold Albums, 8 top 40 billboard hits with 4 of them going top ten. 11 top 40 R&B billboard hits with 6 making the R&B top ten. Not mentioning the international success she had with this music over seas. Chain Reaction didn't even hit the top 40 in the USA but was like 4 times platinum over seas and hit #1 everywhere else. So I would definitely not call this music all a flop. I myself loved her RCA Years.

  22. #22
    diana is an amazing entertainer. but she's not a talent manager. thinking that she could run her career and ensure she'd maintain her level of chart performance was foolish. Yes an average artist would love a chart performance like Diana's in the 80s. but when has "average" EVER been applicable to Miss Ross. Never! Just like Nothing But Heartaches was a flop for "only" reaching 11, her 80s run has to be considered weak.

    But we do have to give her credit. regardless of profession, the old adage is that your peak earning years should be your late 30s - early 50s. that's when you need to maximize your gross intake in order to prepare yourself financially for a solid retirement. Diana did that masterfully

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    diana is an amazing entertainer. but she's not a talent manager. thinking that she could run her career and ensure she'd maintain her level of chart performance was foolish. Yes an average artist would love a chart performance like Diana's in the 80s. but when has "average" EVER been applicable to Miss Ross. Never! Just like Nothing But Heartaches was a flop for "only" reaching 11, her 80s run has to be considered weak.

    But we do have to give her credit. regardless of profession, the old adage is that your peak earning years should be your late 30s - early 50s. that's when you need to maximize your gross intake in order to prepare yourself financially for a solid retirement. Diana did that masterfully
    She did that better than any artist I know. Sealed it !!!

  24. #24
    I like to know if any artist that weren't the '80s big icons (like MJ, Madonna, Whitney, Prince and Tina) was doing as good as Diana was in her RCA period.

    Name names lol

    Don't worry, I'll wait.

  25. #25
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    We will never know what could have been had she stayed at Motown, but she might have had another decade of solid hits leading to still playing in very large venues, and maybe an induction into rock n toll hall of fame. Plus another generation knowing who she is. Oh well .....

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I like to know if any artist that weren't the '80s big icons (like MJ, Madonna, Whitney, Prince and Tina) was doing as good as Diana was in her RCA period.

    Name names lol

    Don't worry, I'll wait.
    Of Diana's peers from the 60s, I think Aretha maintained pretty well.

    During the 80s, she had 10 Top 10 R&B hits, as well as 3 top 10 pop hits (including a #1), with two more that hit the pop top 20. During this time, she also had three gold albums, as well as one platinum.

    Aretha also extended her reign into the 90s, with her last hit in 1998, A ROSE IS STILL A ROSE (a gold single and gold album).

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Of Diana's peers from the 60s, I think Aretha maintained pretty well.

    During the 80s, she had 10 Top 10 R&B hits, as well as 3 top 10 pop hits (including a #1), with two more that hit the pop top 20. During this time, she also had three gold albums, as well as one platinum.

    Aretha also extended her reign into the 90s, with her last hit in 1998, A ROSE IS STILL A ROSE (a gold single and gold album).
    Only Stevie Wonder comes to mind as a peer of Diana’s who maintained this level of success throughout the eighties. And to be fair, if we are gauging success in the eighties, the Diana LP, It’s My Turn and Endless Love should be included in Diana’s totals. She did quite well considering she was at this point a veteran artist in her third decade as a performer.

  28. #28
    Yeah, Stevie definitely held up very well. Aretha did okay too though.

    Other than that... I don't see anyone else who managed to have the success Stevie, Diana and Aretha have. Some would argue Dionne Warwick too but I think she peaked in 1982 (I don't really count Friends).

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah, Stevie definitely held up very well. Aretha did okay too though.

    Other than that... I don't see anyone else who managed to have the success Stevie, Diana and Aretha have. Some would argue Dionne Warwick too but I think she peaked in 1982 (I don't really count Friends).
    Dionne did well at Arista, although not as well as Aretha. And Dionne's hits stopped after LOVE POWER in 1987.

  30. #30
    "selling out 100s of arenas world wide with a cheap show tripled that"
    It's funny or ironic because the "cheap shows" were in fact a response to the critics deeming her concerts as being overproduced, or stating she was just an invited artist of her own act. During the seventies she pioneered those beautifully staged shows that are common place nowadays. She was dismissed for that , so in the eighties while she proved to be spectacular enough to fill arenas or auditorium, just being Miss Ross, or Miss Diana Ross and you say she was cheap. Poor Diana, she can't win, no matter what she does.

  31. #31
    I don’t consider her show cheap anymore for what it is. There is some staging, incredible lighting designs and enough gown changes to please most. This is all way more than any of her contemporaries do. Dionne wears threadbare clothes that fall apart onstage during her show. Gladys is nothing to look at and Ree, let’s not even go there. Her band is so small, if it were a penis - there wouldn’t be a condom small enough to fit it. That being said, she leaves her audiences enthralled and enthralization is what we attend concerts for - so isn’t it rather silly and bitchy to rag on someone who is knocking em dead every single show? Her audiences don’t seem to mind the same songs, gowns and tiny band. She’ll sell out Hollywood Bowl again prolly - with no changes there in ten years!

  32. #32
    she launched the mega-show. I'm not sure if anyone was doing anything even remotely close to it in 1970. certainly her Supremes shows were not. But really her stage shows seemed to follow the career style

    1970 - with the launch of her solo career she added dancers, the tent on the stage and much more. But seriously, how else could you introduce a song as huge as Ain't No Mountain High Enough with anything less?

    72 - 74 She then sort of pulled back a bit after Lady. The videos I've seen from around this time appear a bit more tame. she'd still do her costume changes but the overall production was more similar to later day DRATS efforts. And this works for jazz and her Lady segment. it's more intimate

    76 or so - BAM! Then she exploded again, I think it was the Evening With... production. Mimes, dancers, etc. and again, perfect for the times. Disco was huge and lush. big string sections, heavy bass. you need a big sound to pull this off and therefore a big production fits well

    1979 - And of course we fans love this one like the HBO special with all of the pics in the intro and her singing Mountain on the screen. then emerging through the screen itself dripping in fur and jewels. and only maybe Liz Taylor can pull off a turban better than Diana lol. Dancers, turning panels, huge orchestra, the video screens, etc. This

    1980/81 - theater in the round. now the hugeness of The Boss and her earlier discos hits were behind her. the Chic album is lean, muscular, urban. it's the dawn of the 80s and her show reflects this. plus by now she's truly a legend. she can be center stage and just let the masses adore her.

    Central Park and later 80s- obviously there are some limits to what one can pull off in this environment. but given that, she still pulled together a relatively large show.

    1990's - with the launch of Force Behind the Power, she was back to a larger production. maybe not quite as huge as the 70s but big sets, big orchestra.

    2000s - after the RTL debacle (which was another huge production), she's been touring with her Greatest Hits concept. it's a moderately big production. video screens, she raises up through the stage to the opening of The Boss.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    she launched the mega-show. I'm not sure if anyone was doing anything even remotely close to it in 1970. certainly her Supremes shows were not. But really her stage shows seemed to follow the career style

    1970 - with the launch of her solo career she added dancers, the tent on the stage and much more. But seriously, how else could you introduce a song as huge as Ain't No Mountain High Enough with anything less?

    72 - 74 She then sort of pulled back a bit after Lady. The videos I've seen from around this time appear a bit more tame. she'd still do her costume changes but the overall production was more similar to later day DRATS efforts. And this works for jazz and her Lady segment. it's more intimate

    76 or so - BAM! Then she exploded again, I think it was the Evening With... production. Mimes, dancers, etc. and again, perfect for the times. Disco was huge and lush. big string sections, heavy bass. you need a big sound to pull this off and therefore a big production fits well

    1979 - And of course we fans love this one like the HBO special with all of the pics in the intro and her singing Mountain on the screen. then emerging through the screen itself dripping in fur and jewels. and only maybe Liz Taylor can pull off a turban better than Diana lol. Dancers, turning panels, huge orchestra, the video screens, etc. This

    1980/81 - theater in the round. now the hugeness of The Boss and her earlier discos hits were behind her. the Chic album is lean, muscular, urban. it's the dawn of the 80s and her show reflects this. plus by now she's truly a legend. she can be center stage and just let the masses adore her.

    Central Park and later 80s- obviously there are some limits to what one can pull off in this environment. but given that, she still pulled together a relatively large show.

    1990's - with the launch of Force Behind the Power, she was back to a larger production. maybe not quite as huge as the 70s but big sets, big orchestra.

    2000s - after the RTL debacle (which was another huge production), she's been touring with her Greatest Hits concept. it's a moderately big production. video screens, she raises up through the stage to the opening of The Boss.
    A great recap, and although RTL was sunk by others' grandstanding it's worth remembering that it was TERRIFIC show!

  34. #34
    I have no ideas about how was her 1970 act, nothing has survived from this year?
    The first time I saw Diana was 1985. Than I didn't miss a single performance in Paris and I even managed to catch her "Take me higher" tour in Brussels. From 85 to 2007, the last time I saw her, it was the same kind of show. In the round when she did arenas.
    In fact it's the same show, songs might change depending on her promoted albums.
    I think that Diana is so spectacular that she just have to change a few costumes to make her show work. It's dangerous in a way. I saw Tina Turner a few time and she rely on lights, fireworks, band, heavy sound and all. Great singer anyway, great personality and all.
    I saw Whitney Houston in the nineties and a major disappointment. No charisma at all.
    I saw Donna Summer, what a voice but a poor entertainer.
    Saw Gladys knight in London and it was great.
    Saw Dionne Warwick, such a bore and a damaged voice.
    Unfortunately, I never saw Aretha.
    Janet Jackson, Blige, Beyonce or Rihanna are not my tastes at all, I'm to old. Beyonce seems to be a truly great singer.

  35. #35
    AmI the only one who loves these 2 Diana Motown albums? I love ‘em for the depth& sincerity of the lyrics, the modern, adult music and the plain fact Dianawas recording new, original, high quality material. And I speak as one wholoved her from the early sixties. Sadly, the great public masses didn’t agree.Doesn’t stop me playing and adoring these:

    EveryDay Is A New Day: Not Over You Yet, Someone That You Loved Before. Take MeHigher: If You’re Not Gonna Love Me Right, I Never Loved A Man Before, IThought We Were Still In Love and, of course, her redefining, gospel version ofI Will Survive.


  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by BritishTony View Post
    AmI the only one who loves these 2 Diana Motown albums? I love ‘em for the depth& sincerity of the lyrics, the modern, adult music and the plain fact Dianawas recording new, original, high quality material. And I speak as one wholoved her from the early sixties. Sadly, the great public masses didn’t agree.Doesn’t stop me playing and adoring these:

    EveryDay Is A New Day: Not Over You Yet, Someone That You Loved Before. Take MeHigher: If You’re Not Gonna Love Me Right, I Never Loved A Man Before, IThought We Were Still In Love and, of course, her redefining, gospel version ofI Will Survive.
    No you're not the only one. Since I'm a '90s child, I grew up with those albums. So I got a lot of pride about those two.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by BritishTony View Post
    AmI the only one who loves these 2 Diana Motown albums? I love ‘em for the depth& sincerity of the lyrics, the modern, adult music and the plain fact Dianawas recording new, original, high quality material. And I speak as one wholoved her from the early sixties. Sadly, the great public masses didn’t agree.Doesn’t stop me playing and adoring these:

    EveryDay Is A New Day: Not Over You Yet, Someone That You Loved Before. Take MeHigher: If You’re Not Gonna Love Me Right, I Never Loved A Man Before, IThought We Were Still In Love and, of course, her redefining, gospel version ofI Will Survive.
    No; not by far! Two excellent LPs -

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by BritishTony View Post
    of course, her redefining, gospel version of I Will Survive.
    Gospel? I wouldn't categorize that version as gospel, personally. But her Motown part 2 period really did produce some great work. While I think everyone can agree that leaving Motown for RCA was a great financial decision, her body of work during the second Motown stint begs the question of how much better Diana's 80s output would have been had she remained with Motown. It's sad that her 90s work came at a time when the public had placed Diana in the "has been" box.

  39. #39
    Albator - I'm not aware of any video content or even a full audio version of Diana's first solo performances. I'm going off of what biographers have described as her solo debut show. Most of the others though can be found on youtube. If nothing else, she's definitely a versatile performer! I think that's one of the things I love best about Diana and all of the Supremes lineups. They were PERFORMERS! I don't know that any one woman or any specific lineup was the more talented, vocally. Some of the women you list are, technically, more gifted. their vocal abilities surpass the women in the group. but the Sups seemed to just dazzle on a stage

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Albator - I'm not aware of any video content or even a full audio version of Diana's first solo performances. I'm going off of what biographers have described as her solo debut show. Most of the others though can be found on youtube. If nothing else, she's definitely a versatile performer! I think that's one of the things I love best about Diana and all of the Supremes lineups. They were PERFORMERS! I don't know that any one woman or any specific lineup was the more talented, vocally. Some of the women you list are, technically, more gifted. their vocal abilities surpass the women in the group. but the Sups seemed to just dazzle on a stage
    There is a boot of Diana's 'Let's See If Diana Ross Can Make It On Her Own' show, which I was lucky to see at NY's Waldorf-Astoria Empire Room -

  41. #41
    ^ An actual recorded bootleg? Like a bootleg vid?

    That would be interesting since it's from 1970, which in even video age, is ancient years.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    ^ An actual recorded bootleg? Like a bootleg vid?

    That would be interesting since it's from 1970, which in even video age, is ancient years.
    Unfortunately audio only, but officially-recorded-by-M'twn high quality.

  43. #43
    I used to repeat the entire Every Day is a New Day album after I bought it. Not a bad song on that album... AT ALL.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I used to repeat the entire Every Day is a New Day album after I bought it. Not a bad song on that album... AT ALL.
    Yes, in '98 EDIAND spurred a Ross renaissance for me. I think it was a well-produced album and she sounded lovely. However, thematically, most of the songs were sad or melancholy in a very un-Ross way. I think that is why they couldn't launch a single from that one.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post


    One of my all time favorite songs from La Ross...
    Do I go to her with my problems?

  46. #46
    Sugarfree, Everyday is, and the remix of Not Over You Yet,....
    perhaps the team that remixed NOYY should have remixed the entire album.

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