The Gaye family wins

**soulster** · 03-21-2018, 06:59 PM

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/...thicke-n858846

It goes without saying that this will be automatically appealed, but this ruling isn't good for creative musicians everywhere. What if something you just released sounds too much like something else? That said, I do agree with this particular ruling.

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 07:05 PM

^ How many appeals are there gonna be???

I think this was the second appeal, right?

I remember Stevie defending Pharrell after this broke.

**luke** · 03-21-2018, 07:27 PM

Very pleased for the Gaye family. The truth is the light...yes how many times can people appeal? This had been going on for over 3 years!

**marv2** · 03-22-2018, 01:25 AM

Congratulations to the Gaye Family. I said this several years ago, whenever I heard "Blurred Lines" I immediately thought of Marvin Gaye's "Got to Give It Up".

The 50 percent interest in ongoing royalties from the song the Gaye's were awarded should more than make up the difference between the original $7 million they were awarded and the $ 5.3 million they'll receive from this latest judgement.

**luke** · 03-23-2018, 11:16 AM

Didn’t i read the Gayes are going to get 90% of future royalties?

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Didn’t i read the Gayes are going to get 90% of future royalties?

I believe the article said 50% of future royalties, but I will check again. Some say this is bad for artists. I say that it will make them work to be more original and not just sample classic recordings. Recycling of sounds.

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 11:29 AM

This is what it says in the last sentence of the article:

The Gaye family also received 50 percent interest in ongoing royalties from the song.

When Robin Thicke filed his preemptive lawsuit against the Gaye Family in case they tried to sue him, I knew , that he knew what was up! That did not help his case at all. When he threw Pharrell Williams under the bus claiming that it was Williams that wrote most of the song because Thicke was too high to contribute much, I knew their case was in trouble. Right on to the Judges, lawyers and especially Marvin III, Frankie and Nona Gaye!

**midnightman** · 03-23-2018, 11:57 AM

You know, ALL of this could've been avoided had Robin Thicke not filed the preemptive lawsuit. THAT'S what screwed them up. You don't threaten someone pursuing legal papers against you by suing them FIRST! Marvin III, Nona and Frankie played their cards right when Thicke did that bullsh*t.

Sam Smith, Ed Sheeran and Bruno Mars won't dare do that because they know better. Robin thought he was more important than he was.

Fun fact though: Got to Give It Up was released as a single on March 15, 1977. Robin was born JUST FIVE DAYS BEFORE.

**midnightman** · 03-23-2018, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Didn’t i read the Gayes are going to get 90% of future royalties?

You mean when they first won the suit? No they always said they would get 50% of future royalties [[I think anyway)... thing is Robin has already paid the Gaye family with songs that directly sampled Marvin so why would Blurred Lines be any different?

Least Happy sounded like someone Pharrell could come up with but he straight jacked Marvin with Blurred Lines lol

The "new black" know he was wrong... lol

**Guy** · 03-23-2018, 12:30 PM

They should have just acknowledged Gaye's obvious contribution and settled right away. Thicke's career is probably over now. Pharrell has been exposed as a beatmaker who cannot read or write music. Gaye's family has had to endure all this legal drama unnecessarily. No one wins.

**luke** · 03-23-2018, 12:58 PM

And now the lawyers dont think they should have to pay legal costs for Gaye family even though they wanted them if they had won!

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

You know, ALL of this could've been avoided had Robin Thicke not filed the preemptive lawsuit. THAT'S what screwed them up. You don't threaten someone pursuing legal papers against you by suing them FIRST! Marvin III, Nona and Frankie played their cards right when Thicke did that bullsh*t.

Sam Smith, Ed Sheeran and Bruno Mars won't dare do that because they know better. Robin thought he was more important than he was.

Fun fact though: Got to Give It Up was released as a single on March 15, 1977. Robin was born JUST FIVE DAYS BEFORE.

At the time Robin Thicke pulled that stuff with the preemptive lawsuit, the Gaye Family had not done anything legal. It was after. It does not take too much wondering as to why someone would do that to you unless they know they are truly guilty of something.

I also knew that about Thicke's birthday and the release date of Got to Give it Up. Many also know that Robin Thicke was a big fan of Marvin Gaye's music before all of this went down.

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

You mean when they first won the suit? No they always said they would get 50% of future royalties [[I think anyway)... thing is Robin has already paid the Gaye family with songs that directly sampled Marvin so why would Blurred Lines be any different?

Least Happy sounded like someone Pharrell could come up with but he straight jacked Marvin with Blurred Lines lol

The "new black" know he was wrong... lol

This case just confirms for me that this latest generation of "music artists" are nowhere as talented, creative or inventive as the artists I grew up listening too. Many cannot play a single instrument or read a note of music. They are all about the money and the music has suffered because of that attitude.

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Guy

They should have just acknowledged Gaye's obvious contribution and settled right away. Thicke's career is probably over now. Pharrell has been exposed as a beatmaker who cannot read or write music. Gaye's family has had to endure all this legal drama unnecessarily. No one wins.

Exactly! Now I am wondering how did Pharrell come up with the song "Happy"?

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by luke

And now the lawyers dont think they should have to pay legal costs for Gaye family even though they wanted them if they had won!

Their legal expenses should be covered as a part of the settlement.

**jobucats** · 03-23-2018, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

This case just confirms for me that this latest generation of "music artists" are nowhere as talented, creative or inventive as the artists I grew up listening too. Many cannot play a single instrument or read a note of music. They are all about the money and the music has suffered because of that attitude.

You are so right, Marv. I am a musician [[degreed) and also am blessed with a pretty good ear as to being able to play many things just intuitively from listening to it. A pretty popular software program [[lots of pros use it) that I use has so many "samples" and loops available that practically anyone can edit them together to make a catchy song. A kid from church begged me to listen to one of his creations. It was just pasted together clips that he found, and it was actually very catchy. He no more knew anything about music than the man in the moon. As I compose music, I am always thinking in the back of my head, "Now, have I heard this somewhere else? Is it really mine?" This can be a writer/composer's nightmare. In the case of "Blurred Lines," it was NO DOUBT that it was a rip off of Marvin's song. I don't care if there was a ever so slight rhythmic pattern that was different. I don't care if there might a been a slight variation in a chord progression that was different. It was a blatant rip off.

**arr&bee** · 03-23-2018, 02:37 PM

Good for marvin's family.

**luke** · 03-23-2018, 02:51 PM

They should be but lawyers are protesting it now!

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by jobucats

You are so right, Marv. I am a musician [[degreed) and also am blessed with a pretty good ear as to being able to play many things just intuitively from listening to it. A pretty popular software program [[lots of pros use it) that I use has so many "samples" and loops available that practically anyone can edit them together to make a catchy song. A kid from church begged me to listen to one of his creations. It was just pasted together clips that he found, and it was actually very catchy. He no more knew anything about music than the man in the moon. As I compose music, I am always thinking in the back of my head, "Now, have I heard this somewhere else? Is it really mine?" This can be a writer/composer's nightmare. In the case of "Blurred Lines," it was NO DOUBT that it was a rip off of Marvin's song. I don't care if there was a ever so slight rhythmic pattern that was different. I don't care if there might a been a slight variation in a chord progression that was different. It was a blatant rip off.

Thanks Jobucats, you may or may not be a millionaire music artist, but I have more respect for you because you are a true, a real musician! [[special shout out to the Funk Brothers!). I just cannot stand this manufactured computer generated "music". Pharrell and Robin knew what they were doing. Robin even was preparing for if they got "caught". They got caught! I hope others out there will learn from this case.

**midnightman** · 03-23-2018, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by luke

And now the lawyers dont think they should have to pay legal costs for Gaye family even though they wanted them if they had won!

The judge is gonna tell them either pay 'em or be jailed... just messy. All Marvin III, Nona and Frankie wanted was for their father's music to be compensated. The lawyers keep dragging it on. I don't understand how anyone can be team Thicke/Pharrell at this point.

**bradsupremes** · 03-23-2018, 06:33 PM

I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think “Blurred Lines” sounds ANYTHING like “Got To Give It Up.” I’m talking about the song, not the production. Yes, the production of “Blurred Lines” is a direct copy of “Got To Give It Up,” but this isn’t about the production. This is about the song - the melody. You made an arrangement for “Blurred Lines” in a slower tempo, jazz style or hard metal, would any of you think it was “Got To Give It Up?”

If you were to hum both songs, do they sound anything alike?

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think “Blurred Lines” sounds ANYTHING like “Got To Give It Up.” I’m talking about the song, not the production. Yes, the production of “Blurred Lines” is a direct copy of “Got To Give It Up,” but this isn’t about the production. This is about the song - the melody. You made an arrangement for “Blurred Lines” in a slower tempo, jazz style or hard metal, would any of you think it was “Got To Give It Up?”

If you were to hum both songs, do they sound anything alike?

They sound very much alike Brad. We danced and partied to Marvin Gaye's "I Got to Give it Up" a LOT for nearly year while I was still in high school. The moment I heard "Blurred Lines" I thought it sounded like Marvin's song. I also had assumed they had gotten permission to sample it.

**luke** · 03-23-2018, 07:31 PM

Exactly. The proof is in the hearing. I’f they did this and this but they did what they did and it sounds the same

**bradsupremes** · 03-23-2018, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

They sound very much alike Brad. We danced and partied to Marvin Gaye's "I Got to Give it Up" a LOT for nearly year while I was still in high school. The moment I heard "Blurred Lines" I thought it sounded like Marvin's song. I also had assumed they had gotten permission to sample it.

Of course the productions sound alike because they copied the "Got To Give It Up" production. I think what so many of you are confusing is the production and arrangements as the song. The grooves and beats are similar, but that's not the song. You can't copyright beats and grooves. I'm talking about the actual melody and structure. Take out the instruments, the beats, etc. Just leave the voice singing MELODY - the song. The melodies and structure are totally different thus it's not the same song.

Watch this:

**PeaceNHarmony** · 03-23-2018, 07:49 PM

They did not deserve to win. BL is not a similar song to GTGIU. The intro is similar and that's it. The Gaye family are living on lawsuits instead of making contributions to society. No innocent Black person will be spared a blue bullet, no student will be saved from being slaughtered in their classroom, no minimum-wage overnight working woman will be saved from sexual assault ... This enriches the Gaye family and does nothing else than that.

**marv2** · 03-23-2018, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

They did not deserve to win. BL is not a similar song to GTGIU. The intro is similar and that's it. The Gaye family are living on lawsuits instead of making contributions to society. No innocent Black person will be spared a blue bullet, no student will be saved from being slaughtered in their classroom, no minimum-wage overnight working woman will be saved from sexual assault ... This enriches the Gaye family and does nothing else than that.

So what?! Donald Trump did not deserve to win! His family is leaving off of the millions they've inherited and are not doing anything to enrich the lives of anyone but themselves! I am happy for the Gaye Family for standing up and against thievery of their father's work! I only wished they could have received more money than what they are being awarded! They are not responsible for the ills of this old World.

**bradsupremes** · 03-23-2018, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

So what?! Donald Trump did not deserve to win! His family is leaving off of the millions they've inherited and are not doing anything to enrich the lives of anyone but themselves! I am happy for the Gaye Family for standing up and against thievery of their father's work! I only wished they could have received more money than what they are being awarded! They are not responsible for the ills of the old World.

Nothing was stolen but a beat and groove which cannot be copyrighted. You are clearly not hearing anything past the cowbell and groove. You are not listening to the actual melody, chords, and structure which are the song.

**luke** · 03-23-2018, 10:26 PM

I doubt that everyone who sided with the Gayes were ignorant of music composition. They did win.

**bradsupremes** · 03-23-2018, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I doubt that everyone who sided with the Gayes were ignorant of music composition. They did win.

The people on the jury were not a panel of musical experts nor have knowledge in musical composition.

Listen to this. Take away the cowbells, bass, instruments. Listen to the melody. Does it sound anything like "Got To Give It Up?"

**marybrewster** · 03-24-2018, 02:09 AM

I'm with Peace and Brad on this: I hear nothing similar between BL and GTGIU.

Of course I'm no expert, but I was quick to hear "Please Mr. Postman" as described in another thread.

**midnightman** · 03-24-2018, 02:33 AM

IIRC, the industry itself blocked prosecutors and the defense from using actual sound clips from Got to Give It Up and Blurred Lines to make a final analysis.

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

I'm with Peace and Brad on this: I hear nothing similar between BL and GTGIU.

Of course I'm no expert, but I was quick to hear "Please Mr. Postman" as described in another thread.

The first thing I and most people said who were around with Marvin's "Got to Give It Up" popular and on the radio when we heard "Blurred Lines" it sounds like "Got to Give It Up"! It was the first thing that came to mind. Once again, Congratulations to the Marvin Gaye's family!

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 11:05 AM

Oh another thing. "I Got to Give It Up" came out 41 years ago and just about everyone over 45-50 still remembers that record. With "Blurred Lines", it will be the lawsuit that some may remember, but not the song itself.

**RanRan79** · 03-24-2018, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

The people on the jury were not a panel of musical experts nor have knowledge in musical composition.

Listen to this. Take away the cowbells, bass, instruments. Listen to the melody. Does it sound anything like "Got To Give It Up?"

Nope, which is why this ruling is dumb as hell. And in the world of sampling, if they wanted to do "Got to Give It Up", why not just sample the actual song itself? This is going to open the door for every single song- past or present, still under copyright- to wage suit against any other song that came after it that even remotely sounds like it. Rip off is what Ray Parker Jr did to Huey Lewis. "Ghostbusters" is what it sounds like when you steal from "I Want a New Drug". That is not at all what happened with "Blurred Lines". Maybe the folks behind "Monster Mash" should sue HDH for ripping off the exact cling of the chains in the beginning of "Monster Mash" for the chain clinks in "Nowhere to Run". I think they'd have a case.

**RanRan79** · 03-24-2018, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Oh another thing. "I Got to Give It Up" came out 41 years ago and just about everyone over 45-50 still remembers that record. With "Blurred Lines", it will be the lawsuit that some may remember, but not the song itself.

Nobody will ever be able to take away from the legacy of "Got to Give It Up", a party staple and a huge hit during it's time of release. As for "Blurred Lines", it was the best selling single of 2013 with more than 7 million copies sold in an era when most people don't bother purchasing single songs anymore. It was number one in over 25 countries. "Blurred Lines" will be remembered for a lot more than this lawsuit. Just like nobody remembers "Ghostbusters" and thinks about that lawsuit either. Lets not get carried away.

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Nope, which is why this ruling is dumb as hell. And in the world of sampling, if they wanted to do "Got to Give It Up", why not just sample the actual song itself? This is going to open the door for every single song- past or present, still under copyright- to wage suit against any other song that came after it that even remotely sounds like it. Rip off is what Ray Parker Jr did to Huey Lewis. "Ghostbusters" is what it sounds like when you steal from "I Want a New Drug". That is not at all what happened with "Blurred Lines". Maybe the folks behind "Monster Mash" should sue HDH for ripping off the exact cling of the chains in the beginning of "Monster Mash" for the chain clinks in "Nowhere to Run". I think they'd have a case.

Fine. Let the Monster Mash folks just try it. I'll have Dee Dee and them sue the Monster Mash people for ripping off "Mash Potato Time"!

**RanRan79** · 03-24-2018, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Fine. Let the Monster Mash folks just try it. I'll have Dee Dee and them sue the Monster Mash people for ripping off "Mash Potato Time"!

Doubt there would be a case since "Monster Mash" was a parody and would probably fall under parody law, protecting it from litigation.

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Doubt there would be a case since "Monster Mash" was a parody and would probably fall under parody law, protecting it from litigation.

I don't care. I will make her want to do it if they tried to sue HDH for anything.

They don't mention the term "Mashed Potatos", but they did borrow heavily from "Mashed Potato Time's" rhythm track.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 03-24-2018, 03:07 PM

Remember Low Rawls' 'Groovy People'? I keep hearing 'Greedy People' ! Does anyone know if any members of the Gaye family have a job?

**jobeterob** · 03-24-2018, 03:25 PM

Looks like this is years from a resolution

They talk of an appeal to the Court of Appeals and this kind of substantive disagreement set out in the judgments means this could end up in the United States Supreme Court in a few years.

I question what the value of any future royalties really is unless this song is used in advertising; does anyone pay for anything anymore?

**PeaceNHarmony** · 03-24-2018, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Looks like this is years from a resolution

They talk of an appeal to the Court of Appeals and this kind of substantive disagreement set out in the judgments means this could end up in the United States Supreme Court in a few years.

I question what the value of any future royalties really is unless this song is used in advertising; does anyone pay for anything anymore?

Interesting question. I THINK the original BL had a high # of physical sales; streaming $ can add up when streams are in the tens-of-millions, as BL achieved [[far in advance, btw, of GTGIU ...). Pharrell & Thicke should have [[I think) shut the Gaye family down with 1% publishing and been done with it. Maybe they tried.

**jobeterob** · 03-24-2018, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Interesting question. I THINK the original BL had a high # of physical sales; streaming $ can add up when streams are in the tens-of-millions, as BL achieved [[far in advance, btw, of GTGIU ...). Pharrell & Thicke should have [[I think) shut the Gaye family down with 1% publishing and been done with it. Maybe they tried.

The legal fees will be astronomical even just to this point

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Remember Low Rawls' 'Groovy People'? I keep hearing 'Greedy People' ! Does anyone know if any members of the Gaye family have a job?

I don't know. I do know Marvin Gaye III is on kidney dialysis.

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Interesting question. I THINK the original BL had a high # of physical sales; streaming $ can add up when streams are in the tens-of-millions, as BL achieved [[far in advance, btw, of GTGIU ...). Pharrell & Thicke should have [[I think) shut the Gaye family down with 1% publishing and been done with it. Maybe they tried.

It looks like they've been shut down. Is Robin Thicke even recording anymore? I don't really care, I'm just asking.

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Interesting question. I THINK the original BL had a high # of physical sales; streaming $ can add up when streams are in the tens-of-millions, as BL achieved [[far in advance, btw, of GTGIU ...). Pharrell & Thicke should have [[I think) shut the Gaye family down with 1% publishing and been done with it. Maybe they tried.

Well Robin Thicke tried. He filed some sort of preemptive legal action against the Gaye family just in case they ever got the idea of suing him!

I wonder what Mr. Gordy thinks of all of this. This is a part of his family involved in all of this after all.

**midnightman** · 03-24-2018, 06:53 PM

I still argue the preemptive lawsuit led to all of this. Had some portion of royalties of the song went to Marvin's family, this could've went away... both sides are shady imho

We'll see what happens.

**marv2** · 03-24-2018, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I still argue the preemptive lawsuit led to all of this. Had some portion of royalties of the song went to Marvin's family, this could've went away... both sides are shady imho

We'll see what happens.

I don't see where the Gaye Family was shady at all. They were very upfront about their unhappiness and their intent to take legal action.

**bradsupremes** · 03-24-2018, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

The first thing I and most people said who were around with Marvin's "Got to Give It Up" popular and on the radio when we heard "Blurred Lines" it sounds like "Got to Give It Up"! It was the first thing that came to mind. Once again, Congratulations to the Marvin Gaye's family!

Marv, did you listen to the piano version of “Blurred Lines” that I posted? Did you hear anything remotely similar in the melody that resembles the melody of “Got To Give It Up?”

**TomatoTom123** · 03-24-2018, 09:02 PM

Well now, I find this quite interesting!

I remember when "Blurred Lines" first came out and it was a massive hit... now I do love the song even though it's a bit dodgy [[understatement)... but it does kinda sound like "Got To Give It Up", to me anyway. My brother and father pointed it out to me and I agreed, but none of us have any musical talent/knowledge, so we were purely going on what they sounded like, not if they are actually musically similar.

When my dad played it to a friend of his who is a music teacher, he said they sounded absolutely nothing alike! The melodies [[or whatever, heehee) were totally different or something like that.

I don't know if them sounding alike is enough for a legal case, but then again they do really sound alike, so wtf do I know?

**TomatoTom123** · 03-24-2018, 09:08 PM

By the way, Robin Thicke has done some good music besides "Blurred Lines", check out "Magic" and "Lost Without You"...

And, marv, I believe he is still recording. A little fact for ya... he and his wife separated in 2014 and the album he released that year, Paula, was dedicated to her... echoes of Here, My Dear...