Cindy Birdsong - Till the Boat Sails Away [[1976)

**marv2** · 03-17-2018, 06:35 PM

Here Cindy Birdsong takes a shot at "Till the Boat Sails Away" originally recorded by the Supremes with Mary Wilson singing lead. Scherrie Payne is doing the background on this recording:

**Circa 1824** · 03-17-2018, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Here Cindy Birdsong takes a shot at "Till the Boat Sails Away" originally recorded by the Supremes with Mary Wilson singing lead. Scherrie Payne is doing the background on this recording:

Love ya Cindy, but u r not a singer. You are a lady and pretty face.

**Bluebrock** · 03-18-2018, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Circa 1824

Love ya Cindy, but u r not a singer. You are a lady and pretty face.

It's a bit of a dull song to start with, but Cindy is no great shakes as a lead singer. Mary's voice was better suited to it, but i could happily have managed without it on the otherwise strong "high energy" album.

**captainjames** · 03-17-2018, 08:48 PM

Love Cindy
Hate this song

**midnightman** · 03-17-2018, 10:17 PM

Like I said in the "He's My Man" thread, no one knew what to do with most of the Supremes with songs in the later years and Cindy is a PERFECT example. Much love to Cindy but no.

**George Solomon** · 03-17-2018, 10:36 PM

This was recorded at J. Randy Taraborrelli's house on a Karaoke machine in the mid eighties just for fun one night when Scherrie and Cindy were over...

**Boogiedown** · 03-18-2018, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by George Solomon

This was recorded at J. Randy Taraborrelli's house on a Karaoke machine in the mid eighties just for fun one night when Scherrie and Cindy were over...

tape must've warped.

**marv2** · 03-18-2018, 12:30 AM

I don't think it is bad at all even for an impromptu recording.

**Circa 1824** · 03-18-2018, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

I don't think it is bad at all even for an impromptu recording.

From the same ears that likes Wilson’s “singing.”

**daviddh** · 03-18-2018, 05:09 PM

just a thought Cindy didn't have training to be lead, she was used to singing ohh baby ohh baby etc but perhaps some training vocally she may have found her own voice as MW did.

**midnightman** · 03-20-2018, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by daviddh

just a thought Cindy didn't have training to be lead, she was used to singing ohh baby ohh baby etc but perhaps some training vocally she may have found her own voice as MW did.

I mean she started her career singing in the background of this equally legendary lady:

Not only Patti but also Nona Hendryx's and Sarah Dash's vocals were so loud you could hardly hear Cindy!

And then after Diana, she had to deal with Jean Terrell and Scherrie Payne's own impeccable vocals...

Why is anyone shocked?

Four powerful singers [[and in the cases of Diana and Patti, greater personalities), come on now.

**marv2** · 03-20-2018, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I mean she started her career singing in the background of this equally legendary lady:

Not only Patti but also Nona Hendryx's and Sarah Dash's vocals were so loud you could hardly hear Cindy!

And then after Diana, she had to deal with Jean Terrell and Scherrie Payne's own impeccable vocals...

Why is anyone shocked?

Four powerful singers [[and in the cases of Diana and Patti, greater personalities), come on now.

There's nothing to argue about. If Cindy were not a good singer, how in the heck was she a member of two of the greatest girl groups in history? Berry Gordy would not have let her into his top group and kept her at Motown for approx. 10 years!

**rod_rick** · 03-21-2018, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

There's nothing to argue about. If Cindy were not a good singer, how in the heck was she a member of two of the greatest girl groups in history? Berry Gordy would not have let her into his top group and kept her at Motown for approx. 10 years!

Let me add this to your post Marv if I may. Cindy was SELECTED to join the Bluebelles and the Supremes if she were not a good singer she would not have been chosen. Cindy's recording of her single Dancing Room and Ready For You along with the PTL clip is a better representation of Cindy's voice.

**marv2** · 03-21-2018, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by rod_rick

Let me add this to your post Marv if I may. Cindy was SELECTED to join the Bluebelles and the Supremes if she were not a good singer she would not have been chosen. Cindy's recording of her single Dancing Room and Ready For You along with the PTL clip is a better representation of Cindy's voice.

Thank you Rod_rick. You stated the facts better than I could.

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by rod_rick

Let me add this to your post Marv if I may. Cindy was SELECTED to join the Bluebelles and the Supremes if she were not a good singer she would not have been chosen. Cindy's recording of her single Dancing Room and Ready For You along with the PTL clip is a better representation of Cindy's voice.

No one said she was randomly picked lol

Patti and Cindy were HOMEGIRLS... why wouldn't she pick her to start the Bluebelles? But it was clear even from early on who the nucleus of the Bluebelles are and to this day, many are still amazed that Cindy Birdsong, known as an ex-Supreme, also sang with Patti LaBelle. Few still know that. Cindy could sing but she didn't have the lead singer voice. Simple as that. No one here doubted she could sing lol

**sup_fan** · 03-18-2018, 05:58 PM

Also background singing isn’t just something anyone can do. Sometimes people r a bit dismissive of it but it isn’t simply singing ooh ahhh. One of the most important components is blend. Providing a substantial and beautiful foundation for the lead melody. Plus there harmonies. It often involves more complex intervals and jumps than the lead

In one book someone described m and f as providing a lush velvet backdrop for diamond Diana to sparkle upon. That’s actually a tough role to accomplish

**marv2** · 03-18-2018, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

Also background singing isn’t just something anyone can do. Sometimes people r a bit dismissive of it but it isn’t simply singing ooh ahhh. One of the most important components is blend. Providing a substantial and beautiful foundation for the lead melody. Plus there harmonies. It often involves more complex intervals and jumps than the lead

In one book someone described m and f as providing a lush velvet backdrop for diamond Diana to sparkle upon. That’s actually a tough role to accomplish

You are right. It is not easy creating intricate harmonies and at the same time performing all that choreography the Supremes were known for over the years.

Another thing. This is just one song and one recording.
I think we all know that Cindy Birdsong could sing, this may not show her off at her best, but there are many singers that made some recordings that were less than stellar.

**Bluebrock** · 03-20-2018, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

Also background singing isn’t just something anyone can do. Sometimes people r a bit dismissive of it but it isn’t simply singing ooh ahhh. One of the most important components is blend. Providing a substantial and beautiful foundation for the lead melody. Plus there harmonies. It often involves more complex intervals and jumps than the lead

In one book someone described m and f as providing a lush velvet backdrop for diamond Diana to sparkle upon. That’s actually a tough role to accomplish

I do agree that it takes a certain talent to sing background vocals. Cindy and Mary did the job supremely, pardon the play on words, but did not have that certain star quality to be lead singer.

**kenneth** · 03-18-2018, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Here Cindy Birdsong takes a shot at "Till the Boat Sails Away" originally recorded by the Supremes with Mary Wilson singing lead. Scherrie Payne is doing the background on this recording:

I actually like it. It's odd, because in the background I can rarely pick Cindy out yet hearing her sing lead, her voice is very unique. I think a lot more would find it pleasing if it wasn't a distorted wobbly cassette transfer. But I think her voice has a nice quality.

By the way, that pose with the girls in the red dresses is the one where I simply can hardly recognize Cindy. It's from the back cover of "Supremes '75." They seem to have air brushed away her beautiful and unique quality of her eyes. She kind of has "Bette Davis eyes," [[usually), IMHO.

**drlorne** · 03-19-2018, 10:25 AM

Twenty Feet from Stardom was a documentary that portrayed many "background" singers.
I agree with the above comments that they provided important aspects to the music. Cindy was a Supreme for a long time and if she didn't have the voice, she 1) wouldn't have been hired from and 2) wouldn't have kept the job, there were lots of other talented singers around.
Not everyone has to be the lead.
Lorne

**lakeside** · 03-19-2018, 10:39 AM

The song is a clunker regardless who sings it. Background singers sing background for a reason...and many do a fine job, as Cindy did. Some are able to come forward and sing lead, some not so well. You have groups like The Pointer Sisters who all sang lead.

**luke** · 03-19-2018, 10:55 PM

For using a karaoke machine in someone’s house Cindy did a great job. Her harmonies with Mary on Stoned Love etc were stellar. I don’t get all the criticism. Berry said she was a great singer when she auditioned. She has a lovely pure voice that also has power e.g. Time to break Down, Up the Ladder etc etc

**marv2** · 03-19-2018, 11:05 PM

Here she displays some of her vocal power:

**luke** · 03-20-2018, 08:46 AM

Thanks Marv. That certainly was a Cindy Birdsong we never got to hear.

**marv2** · 03-20-2018, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Thanks Marv. That certainly was a Cindy Birdsong we never got to hear.

You're welcome Luke. Had she gotten the opportunities earlier, she could have developed into a show stopper. But alas she had morals and did not want to play the casting couch game some others did to get ahead.............

**Roberta75** · 03-20-2018, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

You're welcome Luke. Had she gotten the opportunities earlier, she could have developed into a show stopper. But alas she had morals and did not want to play the casting couch game some others did to get ahead.............

Oh my im shocked. what a real nasty business the music business is.

**gman** · 03-20-2018, 09:01 PM

Cindy's voice blended well with Mary's, Scherrie's and Jean's...her voice is a "team player" and she has a very smooth sound. She was more suited to adding flourishes than being a lead singer....her wonderful and recognizable stage presence, and her comfortable in the background style was a major asset and attraction to the Supremes. She remains [[Flo included) my favorite Supreme in the soprano slot.

**RanRan79** · 03-21-2018, 05:08 PM

Who said Cindy couldn't sing? Of course she could sing. Patti Labelle talks about Cindy's audition for the Bluebelles in her book. And there was no way Gordy was putting anyone in Flo Ballard's place who couldn't hold her own. IMO Cindy's natural singing talent shouldn't even be up for debate. What is debatable is whether or not Cindy was a lead singer, and IMO she was not. Some voices are blessed to bring a beauty to backup, while others are blessed to be able to carry a song. Cindy couldn't carry a song- at least not in her group days- and I think it's evident that even her producers and groupmates thought the same since every woman she has sung with has had a lead while in the group [[whether in the studio or live) except for her. [[And I'm not talking about a verse here or there, as I know Cindy was given at least that.) Sarah Dash described Cindy's singing as "monotone". That right there tells me all I need to know about how the others may have felt about Cindy taking over a whole song.

**longtimefan** · 03-21-2018, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Who said Cindy couldn't sing? Of course she could sing. Patti Labelle talks about Cindy's audition for the Bluebelles in her book. And there was no way Gordy was putting anyone in Flo Ballard's place who couldn't hold her own. IMO Cindy's natural singing talent shouldn't even be up for debate. What is debatable is whether or not Cindy was a lead singer, and IMO she was not. Some voices are blessed to bring a beauty to backup, while others are blessed to be able to carry a song. Cindy couldn't carry a song- at least not in her group days- and I think it's evident that even her producers and groupmates thought the same since every woman she has sung with has had a lead while in the group [[whether in the studio or live) except for her. [[And I'm not talking about a verse here or there, as I know Cindy was given at least that.) Sarah Dash described Cindy's singing as "monotone". That right there tells me all I need to know about how the others may have felt about Cindy taking over a whole song.

Your response is right on insofar as “of course she [[Cindy) could sing.”

I am curious about the attribution of Sarah’s remark about Cindy. Sarah is a very spiritual and loving person. When was she quoted? It just doesn’t “sound like” her. Perhaps the context would be helpful. Thanks!

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Who said Cindy couldn't sing? Of course she could sing. Patti Labelle talks about Cindy's audition for the Bluebelles in her book. And there was no way Gordy was putting anyone in Flo Ballard's place who couldn't hold her own. IMO Cindy's natural singing talent shouldn't even be up for debate. What is debatable is whether or not Cindy was a lead singer, and IMO she was not. Some voices are blessed to bring a beauty to backup, while others are blessed to be able to carry a song. Cindy couldn't carry a song- at least not in her group days- and I think it's evident that even her producers and groupmates thought the same since every woman she has sung with has had a lead while in the group [[whether in the studio or live) except for her. [[And I'm not talking about a verse here or there, as I know Cindy was given at least that.) Sarah Dash described Cindy's singing as "monotone". That right there tells me all I need to know about how the others may have felt about Cindy taking over a whole song.

Cindy had a good voice. A very decent good one. But not enough where it was like "she can be THAT girl". I like Cindy's voice but it wasn't powerful as Patti's or identifiable as Diana's. And she accepted her place in the background.

Why is "she wasn't vocally as great as Patti" now considered a controversial thing in these parts? Supremes stuff makes us all lunatics, I guess lol

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Why is "she wasn't vocally as great as Patti" now considered a controversial thing in these parts? Supremes stuff makes us all lunatics, I guess lol

Greatness is in the ear of the beholder. But why is everything an argument around here? If someone thinks Cindy could've been one of the great divas of song, they are entitled to that opinion. It can't be debunked. Maybe she could've. I don't think she could, and it appears that some others don't either, but it's all just opinions based on what every individual hears when they listen to Cindy sing. I dig opposing view points, particularly where art, such as music, is concerned because there really is no right or wrong, just every man or woman's perspective. But you used the word "lunatic" and I think its appropriate label for some around here.

**luke** · 03-21-2018, 07:34 PM

I have never seen that quote documented. And Sarah and Nona and Patti were not happy with Cindy for a long time back in the day. Cindy was not going to get a lead when Diana had star billing and then she began to get some solos when Mary became de facto leader as times were changing in all groups and Cindy sure could do leads..if they let her.

**longtimefan** · 03-21-2018, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I have never seen that quote documented. And Sarah and Nona and Patti were not happy with Cindy for a long time back in the day. Cindy was not going to get a lead when Diana had star billing and then she began to get some solos when Mary became de facto leader as times were changing in all groups and Cindy sure could do leads..if they let her.

Good posting, Luke. I remain curious about Sarah’s “quote.” Maybe it was when she was very young. That just doesn’t sound like Sarah’s spirit. No big deal...just curious.

**reese** · 03-21-2018, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

Good posting, Luke. I remain curious about Sarah’s “quote.” Maybe it was when she was very young. That just doesn’t sound like Sarah’s spirit. No big deal...just curious.

Sarah said this during a Patti documentary. There are three that I know of: one on A&E, another on BET Journeys in Black, and yet another on Lifetime Portrait. I'm not sure which one.

**longtimefan** · 03-21-2018, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by reese

Sarah said this during a Patti documentary. There are three that I know of: one on A&E, another on BET Journeys in Black, and yet another on Lifetime Portrait. I'm not sure which one.

Thank you, reece!

**reese** · 03-21-2018, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

Thank you, reece!

No problem.

I pulled out my dvds and found Sarah's quote. It is in the BET JOURNEYS IN BLACK profile on Patti. She was talking about the beginnings of the group, and she said:

"Patti's voice was very clear and bell-like. Nona had sort of a husky alto. Cindy had the, not to discredit her sound in any way, but she had sort of the monotone voice. And I had a high voice."

"We were unique at the time, as four women in the industry. Because we could take songs like YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE and sing them. You had to have voices to sing like that."

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by luke

I have never seen that quote documented. And Sarah and Nona and Patti were not happy with Cindy for a long time back in the day. Cindy was not going to get a lead when Diana had star billing and then she began to get some solos when Mary became de facto leader as times were changing in all groups and Cindy sure could do leads..if they let her.

But Mary got a lead when Diana had star billing, and that's my point. Gordy thought highly enough of Mary's lead singing to give her not only a featured spot in the live shows during the DRATS period, but also recording her in the studio and performing the song live on television during primetime. If Gordy had a similar view of Cindy's voice, she might have gotten one too, but she didn't. And even when Jean came in and the group was supposed to be a "group" again, Cindy still didn't get a lead to herself. So whether it was the Diana Ross show or the Jean Terrell show, nobody thought to give Cindy a song to herself. Personally I think that says a lot about the opinions regarding Cindy's lead ability.

**sup_fan** · 03-22-2018, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

But Mary got a lead when Diana had star billing, and that's my point. Gordy thought highly enough of Mary's lead singing to give her not only a featured spot in the live shows during the DRATS period, but also recording her in the studio and performing the song live on television during primetime. If Gordy had a similar view of Cindy's voice, she might have gotten one too, but she didn't. And even when Jean came in and the group was supposed to be a "group" again, Cindy still didn't get a lead to herself. So whether it was the Diana Ross show or the Jean Terrell show, nobody thought to give Cindy a song to herself. Personally I think that says a lot about the opinions regarding Cindy's lead ability.

yes and no

when Cindy joined in mid 67, I believe everyone was thinking it was sort of trial period. I'm not sure if her royalties kicked in after a probation period or not. and they were trying to keep things low key. But mid 68, they were turning 100% of focus to Diana, as we know. I feel the little bit of solo work mary got was just sort of bones thrown her way. it's really just 1 spotlight on occasion, except the farewell set.

I do agree with your thoughts in the case of Mrs Robinson in TCB and that's how it was originally taped. but then for the broadcast D and C sang the line together!! odd!! it was about hardly 10 words

when Jean came on, it did shift and quite a bit. both M and C get the trade off lines in Ladder, in the live version of Everybody, both M and C have a lead line. In the Brother Love medley from Tom Jones, M and C have lines. In the recording of Bridge over Troubled Water all three share lead. In Something on Tom Campbell, Cindy actually had the echo call outs, not mary. Another shared lead on Flip Wilson and in live shows with Love the One You're With. And if you listen to the bootlegs of concerts, she had more speaking parts.

now it is still definitely the 3rd position in the group during the Jean years. but a much larger third position than DRATS

**marv2** · 03-22-2018, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

yes and no

when Cindy joined in mid 67, I believe everyone was thinking it was sort of trial period. I'm not sure if her royalties kicked in after a probation period or not. and they were trying to keep things low key. But mid 68, they were turning 100% of focus to Diana, as we know. I feel the little bit of solo work mary got was just sort of bones thrown her way. it's really just 1 spotlight on occasion, except the farewell set.

I do agree with your thoughts in the case of Mrs Robinson in TCB and that's how it was originally taped. but then for the broadcast D and C sang the line together!! odd!! it was about hardly 10 words

when Jean came on, it did shift and quite a bit. both M and C get the trade off lines in Ladder, in the live version of Everybody, both M and C have a lead line. In the Brother Love medley from Tom Jones, M and C have lines. In the recording of Bridge over Troubled Water all three share lead. In Something on Tom Campbell, Cindy actually had the echo call outs, not mary. Another shared lead on Flip Wilson and in live shows with Love the One You're With. And if you listen to the bootlegs of concerts, she had more speaking parts.

now it is still definitely the 3rd position in the group during the Jean years. but a much larger third position than DRATS

Cindy does a great job on the Supremes version of "Love Train" in concerts.

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Cindy does a great job on the Supremes version of "Love Train" in concerts.

My favorite "lead" Cindy moment is when she's belting her part on "Let the Sunshine In" at the Farewell show. She showed she had some lungs.

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

yes and no

when Cindy joined in mid 67, I believe everyone was thinking it was sort of trial period. I'm not sure if her royalties kicked in after a probation period or not. and they were trying to keep things low key. But mid 68, they were turning 100% of focus to Diana, as we know. I feel the little bit of solo work mary got was just sort of bones thrown her way. it's really just 1 spotlight on occasion, except the farewell set.

I do agree with your thoughts in the case of Mrs Robinson in TCB and that's how it was originally taped. but then for the broadcast D and C sang the line together!! odd!! it was about hardly 10 words

when Jean came on, it did shift and quite a bit. both M and C get the trade off lines in Ladder, in the live version of Everybody, both M and C have a lead line. In the Brother Love medley from Tom Jones, M and C have lines. In the recording of Bridge over Troubled Water all three share lead. In Something on Tom Campbell, Cindy actually had the echo call outs, not mary. Another shared lead on Flip Wilson and in live shows with Love the One You're With. And if you listen to the bootlegs of concerts, she had more speaking parts.

now it is still definitely the 3rd position in the group during the Jean years. but a much larger third position than DRATS

I have to go here Sup: yes and no.

When Cindy joined the Supremes in July 1967, no one thought it was a trial period. Cindy's "trial basis" was in April 1967 and I've maintained that had it not been for Cindy being under contract to Atlantic and the Bluebelles, Flo would have never been brought back. Luckily for Florence- and Supremes fans- Cindy could not legally become a Supreme until Gordy took care of the legal break from her other record label and group. This allowed Florence back in until she was out again. By the time of the official firing in July, Cindy was good to go and she stepped into Flo's shoes for what I'm sure Gordy and company thought would be the duration of Diana's time with the group. Florence was never coming back and everyone [[in the Supremes camp) knew it.

[[I sometimes wonder though, what would Gordy have done with Cindy if Florence had come back from the brief "firing" in April and cleaned up her act, not giving Gordy a reason to fire her again? Perhaps Cindy would've become a Marvelette when Gladys left? [[I don't know when Gladys left exactly.) Or maybe she would've eventually ended up replacing Roz in the Vandellas? Just something to ponder.)

As for Mary, of course she got thrown a bone, but she never would've gotten that if she wasn't viewed as someone who could carry the lead of a song. These were Gordy's precious Supremes. He didn't do anything unless he thought it was beneficial to the group, bone or no bone.

During the 70s, Cindy got a bit more lead work, but never a whole song. And IMO Cindy was a great background singer and she was a good enough lead singer to do a few lead lines or even given a verse here or there. But I keep going back to this: it seems like no one thought she was capable of carrying a whole song to herself, and so she didn't. Clearly by the time she performed "My Tribute [[To God Be the Glory)", she seemed to have found the type of song [[and arrangement) that showed off the beauty of her voice so well. But could she have tackled any of the Supremes stuff as well as the Supreme [[any Supreme) who sang lead on any particular song? I don't think so and again my suspicion is that the producers and Bluebelles/Supremes didn't either.

**midnightman** · 03-22-2018, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

yes and no

when Cindy joined in mid 67, I believe everyone was thinking it was sort of trial period. I'm not sure if her royalties kicked in after a probation period or not. and they were trying to keep things low key. But mid 68, they were turning 100% of focus to Diana, as we know. I feel the little bit of solo work mary got was just sort of bones thrown her way. it's really just 1 spotlight on occasion, except the farewell set.

I do agree with your thoughts in the case of Mrs Robinson in TCB and that's how it was originally taped. but then for the broadcast D and C sang the line together!! odd!! it was about hardly 10 words

when Jean came on, it did shift and quite a bit. both M and C get the trade off lines in Ladder, in the live version of Everybody, both M and C have a lead line. In the Brother Love medley from Tom Jones, M and C have lines. In the recording of Bridge over Troubled Water all three share lead. In Something on Tom Campbell, Cindy actually had the echo call outs, not mary. Another shared lead on Flip Wilson and in live shows with Love the One You're With. And if you listen to the bootlegs of concerts, she had more speaking parts.

now it is still definitely the 3rd position in the group during the Jean years. but a much larger third position than DRATS

That was not a trial period. Motown was being sneaky about it... Diana and Mary didn't know Flo was gonna leave and Patti, Nona and Sarah were under the impression Cindy was still gonna be a member.

So both sets were equally shocked. No it wasn't a trial period. FLO thought when she returned that May [[after Cindy did some performance dates), that it was a trial period and only after her birthday party [[and before the performance that fateful July) did she realize she was gonna be permanently replaced and that's why she did what she did.

If it was a trial period, Flo wouldn't have done what she did. I guarantee it! I had to defend my girl Flo for a minute lol

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

That was not a trial period. Motown was being sneaky about it... Diana and Mary didn't know Flo was gonna leave and Patti, Nona and Sarah were under the impression Cindy was still gonna be a member.

So both sets were equally shocked. No it wasn't a trial period. FLO thought when she returned that May [[after Cindy did some performance dates), that it was a trial period and only after her birthday party [[and before the performance that fateful July) did she realize she was gonna be permanently replaced and that's why she did what she did.

If it was a trial period, Flo wouldn't have done what she did. I guarantee it! I had to defend my girl Flo for a minute lol

Diana and Mary agreed on Flo leaving. They knew Gordy wanted her out and they approved that message. Flo said at a certain point she was aware that Cindy Birdsong was hanging around the camp, studying her. Flo was no dummy, she knew what Gordy was working toward. I think that's what caused her to lash out. My hypothesis is that Gordy would have never gotten rid of Flo if she had cleaned up her act and kept it up. As much of a dick as he was, getting rid of Florence was a last resort because she was a popular member of the group. Cindy was an insurance policy. It's unfortunate for Flo that she allowed Gordy a reason to use it.

But there was no shock on Diana and Mary's part. They were as guilty as Gordy was in kicking Florence out.

**luke** · 03-21-2018, 09:35 PM

I have seen one or more of those documentaries and she didn’t say it in what I saw. Doesn’t sound like a real appropriate thing to say.

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 09:37 PM

I don't know if any of y'all have posted the song but "Can I Speak to You Before You Go to Hollywood" was partly about Cindy:

From what Patti has said, it took her 15 years or so before she and Cindy talked again. Cindy mentioned on Patti's Intimate Portrait that Cindy and Patti eventually made up at a Patti performance around '84.

**reese** · 03-21-2018, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I don't know if any of y'all have posted the song but "Can I Speak to You Before You Go to Hollywood" was partly about Cindy:

From what Patti has said, it took her 15 years or so before she and Cindy talked again. Cindy mentioned on Patti's Intimate Portrait that Cindy and Patti eventually made up at a Patti performance around '84.

I remember talking about this song to some fans at one of the Labelle reunion concerts. I thought it was obviously about Cindy, but they insisted it was about Elton John.

**RanRan79** · 03-21-2018, 11:59 PM

Thank you Reece for locating the information. I would never have recalled the exact documentary, remembering only that it was something done around the late 90s/early 2000s. If you hadn't, I would have been called all kinds of liars by folks around here. So I thank you for saving me from that fate.

**TheMotownManiac** · 03-22-2018, 03:03 AM

I think Cindy sounds fine and like she is having a good time with good friends at a party. This wasn’t intended for Top 40.

**gman** · 03-22-2018, 11:07 AM

Cindy's voice blends well live...the performances of the National Anthem are good examples of this....as far as leads go, her part in ALL I WANT was great....she rode the word packed lyrics well....and I like her part in Sha La Bandit too, That was a great 3 part lead. Her voice might not stand out as an individual voice when combined [[like Flo's) , but it did give a nice gentle top to the backgrounds. And her performance of the Gospel song featured earlier in this thread is wonderful. Her lead voice developed enough by that time to warrant notice.

**sup_fan** · 03-22-2018, 01:04 PM

Cindy was an excellent 2nd soprano. Typically that's the middle voice and rarely does it carry the melody. I think the JMC lineup and even the MCS lineup worked better, vocally and harmonically, than the DMC lineup. both D and C have ranges better suited for the middle than the top. S and J have higher voices and can carry those pitches better.

Cindy brought a sexiness. I think she really did sort of provide a Marilyn Monroe element. she was voluptuous, had those bedroom eyes, a bit of breathy-ness to her tone. combine this with M's firecracker personality and then Diana's razzmatazz and it's a strong combo.

Jean always strikes me as a bit of either on or off. not vocally cuz she was ALWAYS on there. but personality. sometimes she has this cute, slightly shy persona but still came across as the lead singer. other times she seems really awkward, nervous and a bit withdrawn. when she was on and combined with Mary firecracker and sexy Cindy, it's very powerful

I adore Cindy's lead lines in Bridge Over Troubled Water. it's beautifully soft, warm and sincere. In something like Auto Sunshine where she does a few of the ad libs like Hey and Baby, her tone and sexiness comes through. even in something so simple.