No Vandellas solos at all?

[marv2]

Is that the only way, Marv?

No, but that was the way Diana Ross did it. She said she became Berry Gordy's secretary, but she couldn't type. She said that she had to "make him remember that they were there.....". She said........ LOL!

[thanxal]

No, but that was the way Diana Ross did it. She said she became Berry Gordy's secretary, but she couldn't type. She said that she had to "make him remember that they were there.....". She said........ LOL!

Lol! Stay obsessed Marv. It makes you you.

[thanxal]

LOVE it! Wait till I spill the beans; we'll all go broke!

Now that, I'll wait to read!!!!

[marv2]

Lol! Stay obsessed Marv. It make you you.

and you stay blessed. Happy New Year.

[thanxal]

and you stay blessed. Happy New Year.

You too Marv. I wish you a wonderful 2018.

[luke]

Speaking of 2018, how about a resolution to not go after each other personally? Good for you Marv...what did Michelle O say..you go high...

[thanxal]

Speaking of 2018, how about a resolution to not go after each other personally? Good for you Marv...what did Michelle O say..you go high...

Who was going after someone? I thought we were having a pleasant conversation.

[blackguy69]

Who was going after someone? I thought we were having a pleasant conversation.

l think he means in general.

[thanxal]

l think he means in general.

ok. Thanks.

[RanRan79]

I never believed Martha's claims that she employed all of the Vandellas. It defies logic in my mind that Annette, Roz and Betty weren't signed to Motown. If that were the case, why did Annette, Roz and Betty sue Motown for royalties instead of Martha, if she were in fact their employer, not Motown? By the time Annette left the group, Martha and the Vandellas were one of the top acts at the label. I find it hard to believe that she left without Motown being involved in her exit and in her replacement, Betty. Knowing how serious Gordy was about his money makers at the time, as well as his obvious belief that the female groups he signed to his label were incapable of making executive decisions [[unlike the way he allowed his male groups to make decisions for themselves), he would have sanctioned every move, including dismissing the Vandellas altogether if he thought Martha could make it on her own. I'm sure that Martha wanting to be rid of Betty also was a company decision, as the group was still a hit making entity at the time. By the time Roz exited, its not a stretch for me to think that Lois and Sandy may very well have been employed by Martha rather than Motown.

[RanRan79]

You buy records based on the ability to hear and buy them. Sleeping with the boss can get them recorded, released and promoted........

Marv you have a point. A relationship with the boss- be it sexual or family or friend- can certainly aid in advancement in one way or another. But as already been pointed out, it doesn't work to everyone's advantage. Also in the case of Diana Ross, the myth that she slept with Gordy in order for the Supremes to reach the big time, just doesn't make sense. For one, by the time Diana and Gordy admit that they began a sexual relationship, and also in line with the timeline of people like Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard who recalled when it began, the Supremes were already the hottest American musical entity of the 60s. Weren't they five number one hits in already? I would have to go back and research but I think they began seeing each other somewhere around the first Copa appearance, no? It was definitely 1965 though. By that point Diana Ross, with the Supremes, had been recorded, released and promoted since 1961. Diana may have had a magical coochie, but I doubt it was powerful enough for Gordy to turn at least five songs into number one records just from the mere thought that he might get a piece of that action. The Supremes had numerous hit records because only an idiot would have failed to realize the goldmine that was the Supremes.

[sup_fan]

to get back on topic - i am a bit surprised that the Vandellas didn't, on occasion, have a trade off line or something in a song. Similar to how the Marvelettes did the chorus of Too Many Fish In the Sea. I too have read though that Martha really did view the girls as 1) basic, competent vocal backup and 2) companionship while on the road

Was Motown and Berry thinking MRATV where done when Martha had her breakdown in 68 or 69? with that, her other personal problems and then the baby, was wondering if motown figured she was out of the picture. but then she came back. seems like Nat Res and Black Magic were really more just sentimental efforts of motown reluctantly releasing things.

[blackguy69]

I never believed Martha's claims that she employed all of the Vandellas. It defies logic in my mind that Annette, Roz and Betty weren't signed to Motown. If that were the case, why did Annette, Roz and Betty sue Motown for royalties instead of Martha, if she were in fact their employer, not Motown? By the time Annette left the group, Martha and the Vandellas were one of the top acts at the label. I find it hard to believe that she left without Motown being involved in her exit and in her replacement, Betty. Knowing how serious Gordy was about his money makers at the time, as well as his obvious belief that the female groups he signed to his label were incapable of making executive decisions [[unlike the way he allowed his male groups to make decisions for themselves), he would have sanctioned every move, including dismissing the Vandellas altogether if he thought Martha could make it on her own. I'm sure that Martha wanting to be rid of Betty also was a company decision, as the group was still a hit making entity at the time. By the time Roz exited, its not a stretch for me to think that Lois and Sandy may very well have been employed by Martha rather than Motown.

I’m more inclined to believe only Lois was employed by Martha since Sandra was already at Motown by the time she came on board. Plus I though Motown had to have a contract if they were to ever record. If Lois and Sandra never recorded then I would assume Martha just employed them. But who knows

[RanRan79]

I'm assuming that it's Annette that sings the "oh, oh, oh" parts by herself on "Tears On My Pillow". And while she wasn't acting as a Vandella during the session, Roz's studio Marvelette appearance on "Silly Boy", she can be heard doing one of the "lover's lane" lines.

[mwmr]

I'm assuming that it's Annette that sings the "oh, oh, oh" parts by herself on "Tears On My Pillow". And while she wasn't acting as a Vandella during the session, Roz's studio Marvelette appearance on "Silly Boy", she can be heard doing one of the "lover's lane" lines.

I think it was simply the line up of that particular group
a lead singer and 2 back up singers
every group has a different line up/make up
there’sno law saying all members of a group have to have a solo

[RanRan79]

I think it was simply the line up of that particular group
a lead singer and 2 back up singers
every group has a different line up/make up
there’sno law saying all members of a group have to have a solo

No such law exists. However, at Motown most of the top groups shared lead [[Supremes, Tempts, Tops, Miracles, Marvelettes...even the Velvelettes), if only on occasion, and that makes the issue of no Vandellas leads a good topic of conversation.

[Boogiedown]

It was always Martha & The Vandellas, but it wasn't always Diana Ross and the Supremes. And I don't think most of the fans crucify Diana for not giving anyone else lead time. Most of just enjoyed the times when a lead went to Flo or Mary.

I like this point . Unlike Martha and The Vs' , at first it was a group of girls equally called The Supremes. That's a different dynamic.
Also even after Diana went "solo" she always had back up singers supporting her in concert [[and on recordings) then and ever since . They just weren't any longer called "The Supremes". Any one pay any particular attention to these gals names over the years?

[temptationsfan500]

That's what I love about The Temptations. No man was larger or more important than the group.

[Jimi LaLumia]

someone should have told David Ruffin that info; I recall that he wanted the group re named David Ruffin & The Temptations

[RanRan79]

I wonder what would have happened if the guys had decided they didn't want Otis in the group any more?

[blackguy69]

someone should have told David Ruffin that info; I recall that he wanted the group re named David Ruffin & The Temptations

And you saw how that played out.

[marv2]

I wonder what would have happened if the guys had decided they didn't want Otis in the group any more?

They would have got their ass beat. Otis hits the hardest. LOL!

[Jimi LaLumia]

the difference is that if Gordy wanted Ruffin's name out there, on records and marquees, it would have been..Ruffin, wanting it because of what had recently happened with Ross,was just not in a position to make that happen.. it was Gordy's company..

[marv2]

the difference is that if Gordy wanted Ruffin's name out there, on records and marquees, it would have been..Ruffin, wanting it because of what had recently happened with Ross,was just not in a position to make that happen.. it was Gordy's company..

He did not change the Marvelettes or the Jackson Five's names either.

[bradsupremes]

Didn’t Gordy want to put Levi Stubbs’s name out front of the Four Tops and Stubbs refused?

[marv2]

Didn’t Gordy want to put Levi Stubbs’s name out front of the Four Tops and Stubbs refused?

No, what he wanted to do was to pull Levi out of the group to portray the role of Louis McKay in the film "The Lady Sings the Blues". That would have meant the Four Tops would have to give up nearly a year of engagements. Levi declined the part and Billy Dee Williams was selected.

[Fullfillingnessfirstfinale]

Well I am thankful for that threat, to read all the different opinions. In my opinion it´s very clear: Martha and The Vandellas, is a group to have Martha Reeves in the spotlight, The Vandellas were only the backround singers and a part of them are The Andantes, they mixed and changed. For me the Marvelettes and The Supremes were group acts, and later Diana Ross was promoted by Gordy as a solo artist. Personally in my opinion Martha Reeves and The Vandellas have there most lies in the vocals, that is only a Martha Reeves projekt !

[midnightman]

Yes,I believe it was only once and in the very early days. At one point there were four Vandellas.Gloria Jean Williamson,who left before they could hit the big time sang lead on a 45."You'll Never Cherish a Love So True[[till you lose it)" b/w "There He Is [[at my door). It was released under the name The Vells. This is the only time I know of that Martha Reeves didn't sing lead on their records.

Well Gloria was the original lead singer when they were The Vells before she left and Martha took her place and then it became Martha & The Vandellas... there are two recordings of There He Is, one with Gloria and one that Martha re-recorded a couple years later.

When the group started in 1957, it was Gloria, Roz and Annette. Martha didn't join them until 1960 and before then she was trying to become a soloist. When the group started doing background vocals for Marvin, Gloria was with 'em. Once they signed with Motown's Gordy imprint, Gloria left and it became Martha, Roz and Annette until 1964 when Betty Kelly replaced Annette.

[midnightman]

Drummers never play the guitar. Violinists never play the saxophone. Backup gals should never sing lead. The world loves the lead star or they would not be the “lead star.” Almost no one gave two hoots about the revolving gals who stood six feet behind the star.

The group only "revolved" because there was chaos behind the scenes, Circa. The "classic" Vandellas lineups were Annette and Roz [[and Betty after Annette left). Least to us Motown fans, they are. But to casual listeners, they only name Martha because her name was in front. But we're not gonna sit here and diminish the other Vandellas' roles. We're not doing that today in 2018.

[midnightman]

I wonder what would have happened if the guys had decided they didn't want Otis in the group any more?

Otis was the de-facto leader so even if they wanted to, they couldn't. And THEY KNEW THAT. Eddie knew and Paul knew. David was the only one who TRIED it and Berry had to tell them "no bruh, it's Otis and Melvin's group."

[midnightman]

Didn’t Gordy want to put Levi Stubbs’s name out front of the Four Tops and Stubbs refused?

He did and Levi didn't want it. And he also wanted Levi to be a soloist, he refused too. He was like "I've been in this group for 12, 13 years, these are my homeboys, nah man."

Of ALL the Motown groups, the Four Tops remained loyal to each other.

[midnightman]

I never believed Martha's claims that she employed all of the Vandellas. It defies logic in my mind that Annette, Roz and Betty weren't signed to Motown. If that were the case, why did Annette, Roz and Betty sue Motown for royalties instead of Martha, if she were in fact their employer, not Motown? By the time Annette left the group, Martha and the Vandellas were one of the top acts at the label. I find it hard to believe that she left without Motown being involved in her exit and in her replacement, Betty. Knowing how serious Gordy was about his money makers at the time, as well as his obvious belief that the female groups he signed to his label were incapable of making executive decisions [[unlike the way he allowed his male groups to make decisions for themselves), he would have sanctioned every move, including dismissing the Vandellas altogether if he thought Martha could make it on her own. I'm sure that Martha wanting to be rid of Betty also was a company decision, as the group was still a hit making entity at the time. By the time Roz exited, its not a stretch for me to think that Lois and Sandy may very well have been employed by Martha rather than Motown.

When did Martha have her breakdown? 1968, right?

I think the group known as Martha and the Vandellas was OVER by then [[and this was after the group added Martha's last name to the full moniker). While they continued to perform when Martha came back from her breakdown, they were just a group in name only. MOST of MR&TV's post-breakdown recordings featured just Martha and probably the Andantes or Syreeta Wright or Ashford & Simpson or whoever until 1972 when the contract finally ran out.

In fact, some of the releases were OLDER recordings that Martha sung by herself [[I Gotta Let You Go being one of them; No One There, the LAST release from MR&TV's sounded way older too).

But the GROUP was over by 1968. IMHO. Like the Marvelettes were technically over that same year and by that point, only Wanda was singing on the tracks [[post-1968 after Anne Bogan).

Ask why the Marvelettes didn't have any of its singers' name in front of the group, because each one of them could sing lead on a track [[though mainly it was Gladys and Wanda). Plus Wanda was too beset by drug abuse and alcoholism to focus on her career [[much like Martha was after 1966).

[RanRan79]

Otis was the de-facto leader so even if they wanted to, they couldn't. And THEY KNEW THAT. Eddie knew and Paul knew. David was the only one who TRIED it and Berry had to tell them "no bruh, it's Otis and Melvin's group."

I get that, but lets be real: had Eddie and Paul and David gotten together and said they wanted Otis gone, other than taking it to the street, what recourse did Otis have? Sure he was the de-facto leader, but what did that really mean exactly? The Tempts were comprised of two factions, Eddie and Paul vs Otis and Melvin. Where the name Temptations are concerned, all of them were together for the start of this thing, except for David who came later. How is it that Otis held more weight than Eddie and Paul? Did Berry really care that much about what Otis [[or Melvin) thought? I don't think so. I think Otis would've found himself out on his ass. I think the only reasons David didn't get what he wanted [[his name out front) is for two reasons:

1) Gordy and company viewed Eddie as a lead singer who would not/ could not be relegated to background singer position.

2) David had a self destructive personality. Had David had a "succeed at all costs" mindset like Diana Ross, and if Eddie wasn't respected for his lead singing capabilities, I think Gordy would have been more than happy to turn the Tempts into the David Ruffin show.

[RanRan79]

Ask why the Marvelettes didn't have any of its singers' name in front of the group, because each one of them could sing lead on a track [[though mainly it was Gladys and Wanda). Plus Wanda was too beset by drug abuse and alcoholism to focus on her career [[much like Martha was after 1966).

The Marvelettes didn't go that way because the two lead singer situation was prior to 1967. By the time Gordy started changing everybody's names, Gladys was gone. As you point out, Wanda had drug and alcohol problems, but also by the time of 1967-68, the Marvelettes had slipped so far down the Motown totem pole that some folks probably forgot they were there at all, thus Motown really didn't give a shit about singling anyone out. Names ending in "ettes" seems so dated at that point, that I have to wonder if a shot of life could've been given to the group by renaming it something else at this point? New name, new start, especially for Wanda?

[TheMotownManiac]

I agree brad with a lot of what you said but Diana certainly wanted Flo out and the meeting was pretty much a formality.

Mary and Berry wanted Flo out as well. Flo found that out the hard way at the meeting. As any employer would say, there’s just so much you can take from an employee. Their non-comfority not only causes harm to the group, but undermines the authority of the entire organization. No one hated Flo. No one WANTED her gone. They wanted the behavior to go, and the only way was to lose the behavior. Mary told me Flo was hostile to Berry and things were hot and cold with Diana. If it’s true that Flo was taking prescription diet pills, they can definitely change and exaggerate moods. It may have contributed to Flo’s inability to cope in an acceptable manner. After the meeting, Flo wasn’t speaking to Diana or Mary or Berry and that certainly wasn’t going to go on too long.

Not or being privy to the whole inside story, it’s easy to say what ‘should have been done.’ Personally, I’d have given Flo a few months off, used Marlene Barrow or rented Cindy to see if maybe Flo could get it together. Removing a popular group member, I’m sure, was not Taken lightly. But Gordy seems to me like quite a little Hitler, drunk with power, and once his ego was challenged, there could be only one result. Plus, Diana looks to me like she was just hanging by a thread emotionally as well. The tension had to be relieved as the group might stand losing Flo, but not Diana.

[RanRan79]

Mary and Berry wanted Flo out as well. Flo found that out the hard way at the meeting. As any employer would say, there’s just so much you can take from an employee. Their non-comfority not only causes harm to the group, but undermines the authority of the entire organization. No one hated Flo. No one WANTED her gone. They wanted the behavior to go, and the only way was to lose the behavior. Mary told me Flo was hostile to Berry and things were hot and cold with Diana. If it’s true that Flo was taking prescription diet pills, they can definitely change and exaggerate moods. It may have contributed to Flo’s inability to cope in an acceptable manner. After the meeting, Flo wasn’t speaking to Diana or Mary or Berry and that certainly wasn’t going to go on too long.

Not or being privy to the whole inside story, it’s easy to say what ‘should have been done.’ Personally, I’d have given Flo a few months off, used Marlene Barrow or rented Cindy to see if maybe Flo could get it together. Removing a popular group member, I’m sure, was not Taken lightly. But Gordy seems to me like quite a little Hitler, drunk with power, and once his ego was challenged, there could be only one result. Plus, Diana looks to me like she was just hanging by a thread emotionally as well. The tension had to be relieved as the group might stand losing Flo, but not Diana.

I agree with just about all of that. As I said in another thread some months ago, if any one of us in Soulful Detroit were to ever walk into our jobs participating in Flo's shenanigans, we'd be out on our asses. And most of us would agree that it would be unacceptable behavior. Why does Flo get a pass? I'm the biggest Flo fan there is [[as far as I'm concerned) and in every way that matters I give her the full credit she deserves. But she aint Jesus. She aint perfect. She was a flawed human being, as were everyone else in this cast of characters. Florence made her own bed and then had to lie in it. The most unfortunate thing is that she died so young and after a years long period of bad decisions and bad luck, so we never get to see her emerge from the consequences of her youthful antics like most of the rest of us got the chance to do.

But calling Flo on her shit doesn't mean that Gordy, Ross and Wilson's shoes were clean either. It's just that Gordy held all the power, Ross had some power, and Flo and Mary had none. Mary kept her job because she towed the line and sided with the powerful against the weak.

[midnightman]

The Marvelettes didn't go that way because the two lead singer situation was prior to 1967. By the time Gordy started changing everybody's names, Gladys was gone. As you point out, Wanda had drug and alcohol problems, but also by the time of 1967-68, the Marvelettes had slipped so far down the Motown totem pole that some folks probably forgot they were there at all, thus Motown really didn't give a shit about singling anyone out. Names ending in "ettes" seems so dated at that point, that I have to wonder if a shot of life could've been given to the group by renaming it something else at this point? New name, new start, especially for Wanda?

Yeah, Motown 1967 onwards was different from the Motown BEFORE 1967.

[midnightman]

I get that, but lets be real: had Eddie and Paul and David gotten together and said they wanted Otis gone, other than taking it to the street, what recourse did Otis have? Sure he was the de-facto leader, but what did that really mean exactly? The Tempts were comprised of two factions, Eddie and Paul vs Otis and Melvin. Where the name Temptations are concerned, all of them were together for the start of this thing, except for David who came later. How is it that Otis held more weight than Eddie and Paul? Did Berry really care that much about what Otis [[or Melvin) thought? I don't think so. I think Otis would've found himself out on his ass. I think the only reasons David didn't get what he wanted [[his name out front) is for two reasons:

1) Gordy and company viewed Eddie as a lead singer who would not/ could not be relegated to background singer position.

2) David had a self destructive personality. Had David had a "succeed at all costs" mindset like Diana Ross, and if Eddie wasn't respected for his lead singing capabilities, I think Gordy would have been more than happy to turn the Tempts into the David Ruffin show.

Well at that time, I'm sure Eddie could've argued that if he wanted Otis to go, he could've. But Eddie was quite loyal to the group until it got too much for him. So it's a what-if situation with that. If that makes sense.

[midnightman]

Jesus, it's like any other Motown story involving another Motown legend, the Supremes got to be interjected into it!!!

God forbid if I make a Marvin Gaye topic, discussing his years of being bipolar, and suddenly what happened backstage at a Supremes concert in nineteen sixty-John Brown-six is brought up lol

[RanRan79]

Jesus, it's like any other Motown story involving another Motown legend, the Supremes got to be interjected into it!!!

God forbid if I make a Marvin Gaye topic, discussing his years of being bipolar, and suddenly what happened backstage at a Supremes concert in nineteen sixty-John Brown-six is brought up lol

For my part, I was just following the posts and responding to what has already been written. I'll leave the topic of the Supremes out of any future posts in this thread and keep the focus on the Vandellas. But I also have to agree with you; someone always brings them up and half the time I'm left wondering what was the point? In some cases I think it's someone hoping to derail the conversation. Ya know, that weird psychotic thing that goes on around here sometimes.

[midnightman]

^ Right. The conversation was about MARTHA AND THE VANDELLAS.

I mean, I wonder is it hard for some folks to keep the Supremes' name out of their mouths and try to be like "#TeamDiana" or "#TeamMary". That's some f*ck sh*t lol

[captainjames]

There are no Vandella solos.... Martha was the s^&*[[ period !!!!
also didn't Tony Turner say he slept with Berry Gordy ?....nobody recorded him.
peace

[luke]

Is this Vandella Lois? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUM3mk2zY_c

[midnightman]

No such law exists. However, at Motown most of the top groups shared lead [[Supremes, Tempts, Tops, Miracles, Marvelettes...even the Velvelettes), if only on occasion, and that makes the issue of no Vandellas leads a good topic of conversation.

That's quite unique though. Like every other group in Motown AT LEAST, the other member[[s) had a lead or shared lead, either on a single or on an album track.

Yet in NEITHER of the NINE [[I think?) studio albums [[not counting the "Live" album that had Betty Kelly, I think, doing Respect), Annette, Roz, Betty, Lois and/or Sandra never had a lead vocal and in "I Can't Dance [[To That Music You're Playing)", they brought in Syreeta Wright to sing the chorus!

Also, DIDN'T Martha sue Motown first for royalties before the other Vandellas [[Annette, Betty and Roz; save for Lois who worked with Martha mainly) did? I could've sworn she had sued them after the Motown 25 special [[where she was only given a minute long performance alongside Mary Wells?).

[midnightman]

There are no Vandella solos.... Martha was the s^&*[[ period !!!!
also didn't Tony Turner say he slept with Berry Gordy ?....nobody recorded him.
peace

Tony's a messy queen. I wouldn't trust a word he says or writes. He also implicated both Marvin and Eddie K were gay lol But enough about that boy lmao

[TheMotownManiac]

There are some who feel that Solos were somehow owed, deserved, fair or given out like special treats. This is a business and Solos were only invested in if those involved expected a profit from it. There are many fine bg voices that would never make a dime as Solos - like Cindy for example. I believe The Vandellas that I’ve heard fit in that category. Mary, as a pop singer does as well. You gotta have a lot to make a career, but a voice people enjoy is one of them. Sandra’s voice? No, thanks. Mary and Flo had nice voices for a solo spot, but most of the bg voices I hear, don’t.

And I don’t think it matters with the inception of the group was, any group going to Motown was going to do what Motown told them where they were going to be there. Simple as that. They were free to leave if they wanted out.

I think Otis was the final say in the group because technically I believe Paul and Eddie joined his group. I may be wrong about that, but I don’t think so.

[midnightman]

^ Since we're going OT lol, yeah Eddie and Paul JOINED Otis and Melvin's group [[though credit to the naming of the Temptations belong to Otis and Paul).

[RanRan79]

That's quite unique though. Like every other group in Motown AT LEAST, the other member[[s) had a lead or shared lead, either on a single or on an album track.

Yet in NEITHER of the NINE [[I think?) studio albums [[not counting the "Live" album that had Betty Kelly, I think, doing Respect), Annette, Roz, Betty, Lois and/or Sandra never had a lead vocal and in "I Can't Dance [[To That Music You're Playing)", they brought in Syreeta Wright to sing the chorus!

Also, DIDN'T Martha sue Motown first for royalties before the other Vandellas [[Annette, Betty and Roz; save for Lois who worked with Martha mainly) did? I could've sworn she had sued them after the Motown 25 special [[where she was only given a minute long performance alongside Mary Wells?).

Yes I believe Martha sued Motown first. Being unfamiliar with the details, I can only speculate that Martha sued on her own behalf, the Vandellas be damned. Lol Which I guess is why they had to sue on their own a few years later. [[I so badly want to insert a reference to another Motown girl group here, but Midnight I don't want you to get mad at me and kick me out the thread.)

[midnightman]

Yes I believe Martha sued Motown first. Being unfamiliar with the details, I can only speculate that Martha sued on her own behalf, the Vandellas be damned. Lol Which I guess is why they had to sue on their own a few years later. [[I so badly want to insert a reference to another Motown girl group here, but Midnight I don't want you to get mad at me and kick me out the thread.)

Hahaha you cool but yeah we have to stay on topic though lol

It always attracts the usual suspects.

[RanRan79]

There are some who feel that Solos were somehow owed, deserved, fair or given out like special treats.

Actually that's exactly how many leads were handled in the business. Some were owed, some were deserved, some were distributed fairly, and I'm going to assume that in the case of group members whose voices left something to be desired to my ears, leads were apparently handed out as special treats.

It seems like most of the Motown groups were comprised of people who were more than capable of sharing lead vocals, including that group Midnight doesn't want me to mention. [[HA!) And to a lot of people if you can sing lead, you should sing lead, and it seems like Motown had a similar opinion, even when there was a designated sole lead singer.

When it comes to who should and shouldn't sing lead, it really is very much an opinion based issue. Maniac may think none of the Vandellas fit the criteria for good soloists, but someone standing next to him may have the opposite opinion. IMO there have been people throughout the history of recorded music who vocally suck but somehow were able to carve out a career. That's why discussing group lead singers is a worthy topic.

I think in the Vandellas case, none of them recording a studio lead probably had nothing to do with anyone at Motown not feeling any of them were capable of handling such a task, but had everything to do with the way the act was structured: Martha Reeves and her background singers the Vandellas. Martha may join the girls to sing backup in the studio for another act, but Martha wasn't going to sing background to one of her own background singers.