Why alternate takes for stereo mixes?

[lockhartgary]

Hi all,
I was just wondering what the reason was for Motown using alternate takes for some of their stereo mixes? Some of the ones that stand out are: Do You Love Me?, Playboy, and Please Mr. Postman.

[mysterysinger]

Presumably they were recorded on mono equipment originally and had to be re-recorded to create a stereo version for LP use [[e.g. the 16 Big Hits series). That's why there are no available stereo versions of certain tracks because they were always in mono. For example, no true stereo version exists of "Every Little Bit Hurts" by Brenda. In that case I believe the bulk of the backing track was recorded by/for Ed Cobb and a demo vocal added [[Frank Wilson's Mrs?), The demo vocal was replaced by Brenda Holloway's for the Tamla single but there was never a true stereo version made.

[Motown Eddie]

Hi all,
I was just wondering what the reason was for Motown using alternate takes for some of their stereo mixes? Some of the ones that stand out are: Do You Love Me?, Playboy, and Please Mr. Postman.

Good question. Only the engineers who did the stereo mixes for Motown in the '60s can answer that. While stereo was on the rise during the era, mono was the dominate sound format during that time. And it wasn't unique to Motown to have songs that used alternate takes [[or edits) for their mono & stereo releases; such classic '60s hits as Sam & Dave's "Soul Man", The Rascals' "Groovin" & The Beatles' "Help" have big differences between their mono vs. stereo editions.

[theboyfromxtown]

All of the explanations are in the archives. In particular, search for Bob Olhsson

[keith_hughes]

Tape usage was rigidly controlled, at least during the time when Motown were working with 3-track tape. Sometimes what happened was this: an artist cut a vocal lead, the song was mixed to mono, then the artist was sent back to re-cut the lead. Instead of copying the original multi-track tape and overdubbing onto the copy, the engineer overdubbed the new vocal on top of the original. Then it was decided that the new version was not as good as the original, so they released the mono mix they already had. If they wanted to remix the track for stereo release later, they had to use the second vocal take as the original take was gone. Examples of this case include the Contours' "Do You Love Me".

In the case of the Temptations' "Say You", the Monitors' vocals replaced the Tempts'. So we'll never hear a true stereo version of the Tempts' version.

"Every Little Bit Hurts" was mixed, in mono, on the West Coast. The multi-track tape seemingly never reached Detroit, and by the time Motown wanted to mix it to stereo, the company and writer/producer Ed Cobb were in dispute ... the multi-track has never turned up ...

[mysterysinger]

Good info as usual Keith. So if I understand correctly, the mono mix stands alone on a separate tape, whereas the original 3 track now exists with the revised vocal and has been used to mix stereo versions [[and still could be - or has everything been transferred elsewhere now?) which again went on to a separate tape back then.

That would all make some sense to me. But stereo "Jimmy Mack" sounds like a different recording so presumably there were occasions when that was necessary too?

In the case of Brenda's ELBH, the sleeve notes by Mick Patrick on the ACE "Early Years" CD [[well worth buying if anyone doesn't yet have it) quote from Ed Cobb - "I wrote "Every Little Bit Hurts", cut the tracks and had a girl named Barbara Wilson singing on it"......."I put the entire record together. Hal came in with me and put on Brenda Holloway's voice but I had produced the whole record. We mixed it down and sent it to Gordy. When I finally got a copy of the record it listed Hal Davis and Marc Gordon as the producers but nothing was altered on the rhythm tracks. It was the exact same demo that I had brought to Motown in the first place".

Anorak that I am I find all this fascinating. Following the logic in the previous post, the Barbara Wilson demo was a mono mix down, Brenda's vocal replaced Barbara's on the original tape [[presumably also a 3 track?). This was then mixed down onto a separate mono tape, but the original 3 track still existed and it would have been possible to mix to stereo were it not for the fact that it is missing. Yet in that case - the original tape must have belonged to Ed Cobb rather than Motown unless they purchased it from him. He may have kept hold of it. Could there be a possibility that it may yet turn up one day perhaps?

[keith_hughes]

Since you're an admitted anorak, MS, I'll add that I think the multi of ELBH was probably four-track rather than three, and that may have been another reason why it wasn't mixed in Detroit, as Hitsville didn't have facilities to mix four-track tape until the beginning of 1965.

Have now forgotten the long story of "Jimmy Mack", I knew it all at one time ... George Solomon finally sorted it out, I seem to recall. I think we may have used the wrong version on The Complete Motown Singles.