The Tempts and Supremes have had a lot of members?

[luke]

The Association have had 35!

[lockhartgary]

Take a look at Blood, Sweat and Tears Wikipedia page. I counted 165 members!! I know it's wikipedia but I thought worth noting anyhow.

[floyjoy678]

I really think the Supremes revolving door angle is exaggerated.

[luke]

Omg 165!! I tried keeping track of the Association members on Wikipedia and gave up! Exactly floyjoy

[TomatoTom123]

Lol

I remember Tower Of Power as having had a lot of members...

Just vomited, and according to wiki it's 65... quite a lot but a whole hundred behind Blood, Sweat and Tears!!!

[TomatoTom123]

Just vomited, and according to wiki it's 65... quite a lot but a whole hundred behind Blood, Sweat and Tears!!!

OH MY, LOL, how on earth did autocorrect get "vomited" from "checked"!!??

[TheMotownManiac]

I disagree…… Because more than any group mentioned, or any group besides the Beatles period, The Supremes were faces that were seeing a lot on television as well as of course on 45 and album sleeves…… And since there were only three and since one was 10 times more prominent, each time there was a change, the personnel changed to buy a third - which is a lot. Then consider who was changed: Flo, Who, as we all know, was extremely popular and certainly, the most popular background singer in the industry at her time…… Then you remove the star of the group, whose face is known everywhere and his voice is on every single record that people knew, and that is quite a catastrophic blow to any group. Luckily for the Supremes, Jean was quite talented and they hit the ground running on the coattails of the groups last platinum single which was just dropping off the charts completely when up the ladder was introduced on ed sullivan .

I do not think it is coincidence that high energy charted so well in between two albums that charted poorly, And that there were no faces on the jacket what so ever to remind people that the album was not a bunch of strangers to the general population. It had nothing to do with their talent, they just want to Supremes anymore to most people… The same thing happened to the Tempts- when enough people have their favorite group member leave, more and more of these interest until there is no interest.

It sucks, because of the talent involved, but I believe they should change their name and started over again because then it wouldn't be like you're trying to fob off a bunch of strangers as the group that you grew up loving… Instead, you have, hopefully, a brand new exciting group… That still retains some of the history of the prior group you loved.

=floyjoy678;415066]I really think the Supremes revolving door angle is exaggerated.[/QUOTE]

[Jimi LaLumia]

oh please there's no comparison to those sidemen coming and going in the groups cited vs. America's Sweethearts, Diana, Mary & Flo who everyone knew by name. I couldn't even tell you the name of The Association's lead singer even back then, let alone anyone else in there,and don't anyone here pretend that you knew, cos we'd know you be lyin..lol

[marv2]

I really think the Supremes revolving door angle is exaggerated.

Very exaggerated considering that each lady was very distinct and had their own appeal.

[marv2]

Duran Duran had 12 members, 4 active and 8 replacements.

[marv2]

oh please there's no comparison to those sidemen coming and going in the groups cited vs. America's Sweethearts, Diana, Mary & Flo who everyone knew by name. I couldn't even tell you the name of The Association's lead singer even back then, let alone anyone else in there,and don't anyone here pretend that you knew, cos we'd know you be lyin..lol

I knew all of the Associations. I use to collect their trading cards! LOL!!!

[marv2]

The Miracles had 5 original members and 16 members overall.

[RanRan79]

I disagree…… Because more than any group mentioned, or any group besides the Beatles period, The Supremes were faces that were seeing a lot on television as well as of course on 45 and album sleeves……

I agree. Take Barbara out of the equation since she left before the general public knew she existed. Flo was gone in 67, who, as you point out, was extremely popular. Cindy takes her place and then Diana, the lead singer, is out a little more than two years after Flo. Jean comes in 70 and Cindy is out in 72. Lynda takes Cindy's place and then both she and Jean are out in 73. Scherrie is in and Cindy returns in 74 and then Cindy is out in 76 and Susaye takes her place. Whatever kind of way you slice it, that's a high turnover rate for a world famous, hugely successful, iconic singing group.

I believe they should change their name and started over again because then it wouldn't be like you're trying to fob off a bunch of strangers as the group that you grew up loving… Instead, you have, hopefully, a brand new exciting group… That still retains some of the history of the prior group you loved.

I've been saying that JML should've left after "Bad Weather" tanked. But others have pointed out that Mary would not own a stake in the name Supremes if she had left then. But as profitable as the name may be, one has to wonder what kind of monumental success the group may have had elsewhere. Jean, Mary and Lynda had the goods, a perfect sound and look for the time. They sounded fantastic. All they needed was a label who believed in them.

[detmotownguy]

I agree. Take Barbara out of the equation since she left before the general public knew she existed. Flo was gone in 67, who, as you point out, was extremely popular. Cindy takes her place and then Diana, the lead singer, is out a little more than two years after Flo. Jean comes in 70 and Cindy is out in 72. Lynda takes Cindy's place and then both she and Jean are out in 73. Scherrie is in and Cindy returns in 74 and then Cindy is out in 76 and Susaye takes her place. Whatever kind of way you slice it, that's a high turnover rate for a world famous, hugely successful, iconic singing group.


I've been saying that JML should've left after "Bad Weather" tanked. But others have pointed out that Mary would not own a stake in the name Supremes if she had left then. But as profitable as the name may be, one has to wonder what kind of monumental success the group may have had elsewhere. Jean, Mary and Lynda had the goods, a perfect sound and look for the time. They sounded fantastic. All they needed was a label who believed in them.

Interesting. A thread on the sound of JML might be an interesting. I listened to that Japan CD and it seemed ok. I don't have access to my equipment to isolate the background. L was around for such a short period of time I never gave her much thought.

[luke]

Lol. Hope you're feeling better Tomato!

[Jimi LaLumia]

well in my opinion Mary Wilson should have gone solo when Ross left; I think Mary would have found her footing quickly and avoided all the drama that followed; she didn't want to take the lead spot but she should have if going solo was too much for her shaken confidence at the time..she didn't want to be 'lead' , she pushed for Jean, but once Jean got in, you could see, in performances and interviews, that Mary wanted that lead singer spotlight, that's who the tv hosts talk to, the lead singer, and it was clear on many of these shows that the hosts seemed to have been instructed to speak to all three, whoever the three happened to be at any given time, it all seemed forced..oh well that's my opinion and Mary remains top of her game right up to the most recent show that I saw, but she should have stepped up from day one, just saying..

[RanRan79]

well in my opinion Mary Wilson should have gone solo when Ross left; I think Mary would have found her footing quickly and avoided all the drama that followed; she didn't want to take the lead spot but she should have if going solo was too much for her shaken confidence at the time..she didn't want to be 'lead' , she pushed for Jean, but once Jean got in, you could see, in performances and interviews, that Mary wanted that lead singer spotlight, that's who the tv hosts talk to, the lead singer, and it was clear on many of these shows that the hosts seemed to have been instructed to speak to all three, whoever the three happened to be at any given time, it all seemed forced..oh well that's my opinion and Mary remains top of her game right up to the most recent show that I saw, but she should have stepped up from day one, just saying..

No way that was going to work. Mary had spent the last X amount of years not doing much more than oohing and aahing in the background. And the last two years before Ross left, that oohing and aahing time- in the studio at least- was drastically reduced. I believe Mary craved the spotlight as much as the next girl, but sending her out alone would have been almost certain disaster. Now had Gordy taken my advice during one of my time machine travels and spent as much time grooming Mary and Florence for eventual solo success as he did Diana, 1970 could have been the year of the emerging former Supremes. But since he didn't take my advice, Mary needed at least a couple more years without the drama and lights that was Diana Ross [[and Berry Gordy for that matter) before she could leave the group with any measure of confidence that she had what it took to compete. I think the earliest Mary could've left was 1974. Perhaps it may have been to her advantage to let the Supremes die after Jean and Lynda left and then pursued a solo career while the Supremes name still carried some weight [[even on the heels of a flop album and two flop singles) and she could capitalize on it. But definitely by 1977 it was time for her to fly out on her own. She developed a great voice.

[RanRan79]

Interesting. A thread on the sound of JML might be an interesting. I listened to that Japan CD and it seemed ok. I don't have access to my equipment to isolate the background. L was around for such a short period of time I never gave her much thought.

Starting this one now Detmotownguy, so as not to continue to derail the topic.

[sup_fan]

Randy had made this interest point in multiple books: part of the supremes success was that they were three identifiable and charismatic personalities and performers. Unlike so many other groups they were anything BUT anonymous. Therefore when u have one of them leave it's a major disruption to the overall experience. Even in their reduced roles during the DRATS years Mary and Cindy still added to the overall experience. While I love each lineup and what each girl contributed I do understand that too many changes in too short a time undermined the reputation of the group. U didn't have time to learn the new member before they had left

[blackguy69]

I do agree that Mary needed a few years so I understood why she didn't take the step to lead. Starting with 1969 when she finally got a solo. She used that sing to work her confidence so she was ready when the time came

[Jimi LaLumia]

sorry but I dont get the 'need a few years' thing..a natural front person is ready and craving that chance to jump out front, or they're not a natural front person and would fail; people make it sound like Mary was a 'special needs' patient; I give her more credit, I think she would have learned to 'swim' very quickly, she certainly had a ten year front row glance at how to get it done

[Jimi LaLumia]

by the way, I just listened to The Jackson 5 version of "Touch" and their version sucked too, so blame the poorly constructed song, not the singer[[s).

[blackguy69]

True a natural front person can jump right in but if you have someone in your ear saying you can't sing it does take something out of you.

[Boogiedown]

sorry but I dont get the 'need a few years' thing..a natural front person is ready and craving that chance to jump out front, or they're not a natural front person and would fail; people make it sound like Mary was a 'special needs' patient; I give her more credit, I think she would have learned to 'swim' very quickly, she certainly had a ten year front row glance at how to get it done

I was about to respond with something similar if you hadn't!

Seems Jean Terrell was able to jump right in and do it.
So what was Mary's problem ? I've not heard of "back-up singer syndrome". Is that what's being suggested?

added:

blackguy69
True a natural front person can jump right in but if you have someone in your ear saying you can't sing it does take something out of you.

Interesting. Who was telling Mary she couldn't sing??

[sup_fan]

Mary mentioned on her book that part of the reason she didn't opt to take over when Diana left is because there's a clear difference in singing lead on a song and being a lead singer. It's one thing to be able to sing a song beautifully. It's another to be a mistress of ceremony for an entire show. Diana played that part beautifully and was a natural at it. I think that is what Mary wasn't ready to do. And frankly when she did do it in the 70s IMO it came across as forced. Like the vid of MSS in Montreau.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I was about to respond with something similar if you hadn't!

Seems Jean Terrell was able to jump right in and do it.
So what was Mary's problem ? I've not heard of "back-up singer syndrome". Is that what's being suggested?

added:



Interesting. Who was telling Mary she couldn't sing??

Who cares if someone, even Berry Gordy, tells you that you can't sing? You need a backbone in this business, people have said all kinds of things to me, hasn't stopped me since my punk days right up to my brand new single release; whoever don't like it, no one is forcing them to listen.. I don't buy the 'unkind comments' thing, if that's going to throw your game, you don't belong in the game..people are always go to s**t talk you, get over it..I stand by what I think Miss Wilson should have done.. granted, always easy to say in retrospect

[Circa 1824]

The group ended when Diana left. The final nail in the coffin was Cindy's departure. After that, I lost all interest.

[marv2]

Who cares if someone, even Berry Gordy, tells you that you can't sing? You need a backbone in this business, people have said all kinds of things to me, hasn't stopped me since my punk days right up to my brand new single release; whoever don't like it, no one is forcing them to listen.. I don't buy the 'unkind comments' thing, if that's going to throw your game, you don't belong in the game..people are always go to s**t talk you, get over it..I stand by what I think Miss Wilson should have done.. granted, always easy to say in retrospect

Spoken like a truly experienced, intelligent person. You go Jimi!

[marv2]

sorry but I dont get the 'need a few years' thing..a natural front person is ready and craving that chance to jump out front, or they're not a natural front person and would fail; people make it sound like Mary was a 'special needs' patient; I give her more credit, I think she would have learned to 'swim' very quickly, she certainly had a ten year front row glance at how to get it done

Shit Mary Wilson had the goods as far back as the 60s. But it was Berry's mission to make his girlfriend a star at all costs. That's why he would say things like Flo you're too fat and Mary, you know you can't sing in order to break them down and keep them in line. To stop complaining that they never got to sing the lead. Both would been successful with the right backing and opportunities to be up front. Mary still can bring the house down in 2017.

[marv2]

Mary mentioned on her book that part of the reason she didn't opt to take over when Diana left is because there's a clear difference in singing lead on a song and being a lead singer. It's one thing to be able to sing a song beautifully. It's another to be a mistress of ceremony for an entire show. Diana played that part beautifully and was a natural at it. I think that is what Mary wasn't ready to do. And frankly when she did do it in the 70s IMO it came across as forced. Like the vid of MSS in Montreau.

It doesn't come across forced now.....whew! I was in this audience:

[Circa 1824]

Not an ounce of beauty in her voice. Not an ounce ....

[RanRan79]

Who cares if someone, even Berry Gordy, tells you that you can't sing? You need a backbone in this business, people have said all kinds of things to me, hasn't stopped me since my punk days right up to my brand new single release; whoever don't like it, no one is forcing them to listen.. I don't buy the 'unkind comments' thing, if that's going to throw your game, you don't belong in the game..people are always go to s**t talk you, get over it..I stand by what I think Miss Wilson should have done.. granted, always easy to say in retrospect

Jimi you are not Mary Wilson. I love that no one has ever been able to knock your confidence. You are extremely blessed for that. However, not everyone is built like you and apparently Mary Wilson is one such person. I've seen all kinds of people's confidences about a myriad of things have an effect on them. Mary said she didn't have the confidence to take over, let alone go solo, and she stated the reasons why. I'll take her word for it. And clearly her self confidence was boosted during the extra years in the group or she never would've went solo. I don't even see how this is a debate. She said what she said. Is she lying? Lol

[Bluebrock]

Mary mentioned on her book that part of the reason she didn't opt to take over when Diana left is because there's a clear difference in singing lead on a song and being a lead singer. It's one thing to be able to sing a song beautifully. It's another to be a mistress of ceremony for an entire show. Diana played that part beautifully and was a natural at it. I think that is what Mary wasn't ready to do. And frankly when she did do it in the 70s IMO it came across as forced. Like the vid of MSS in Montreau.

Mary Wilson was a stunningly beautiful lady, but she lacked that special something to become a major star in her own right.Her voice was just too dull, bland and boring to ever sell records in large quantities. She should have been a model or actress who occasionally sings the way that Twiggy did. If Berry thought she was capable of being the lead singer he would have insisted she did it, but both he and Mary knew she was not up to the task. Jean stepped in and did a great job. All credit to Mary for forging some kind of career since then, but if you are born to be a lead singer you have that natural ability to embrace the spotlight right from the start. Diana had it, Jean had it and i believe Flo had it too, but not Mary Wilson.

[luke]

Mary Wilson gets standing ovations. I saw them recently. Not bad for a 73 year old "background" singer. She also got a rave review from NY Times for her Up Close and Personal show. Is someone bribing people to stand up and applaud or write good reviews?

[marybrewster]

Mary mentioned on her book that part of the reason she didn't opt to take over when Diana left is because there's a clear difference in singing lead on a song and being a lead singer. It's one thing to be able to sing a song beautifully. It's another to be a mistress of ceremony for an entire show. Diana played that part beautifully and was a natural at it. I think that is what Mary wasn't ready to do. And frankly when she did do it in the 70s IMO it came across as forced. Like the vid of MSS in Montreau.

sup_fan; I've never once looked at it that way, but wow: I couldn't agree with you more. When I think about all of the interviews the 60's Supremes did [[television, but especially radio), Mary is quite soft-spoken. To grab attention, you need that little bit extra that Diana had. It just took some time; the difference is night and day to the Mary of the 70's.

[sup_fan]

Also want to point out that I'm referring to being lead in a pop group. I think Mary could most definitely have been developed from the start to be lead in another category. Perhaps in a more jazz ensemble.