Andantes use in vandellas songs

[blackguy69]

Since we usually are always talking about the supremes, maybe we need to switch it up. Was we know the andantes were even more heavily used in vandellas recordings which makes you wonder who was singing what. I do know Roshland had said that she recorded almost every hit while she was in the group and we know Annette was gone well before dancing in the streets was recorded.

[RanRan79]

I think this is another case of it's fairly easy to spot which group is singing what. But as was pointed out in another thread, apparently the Andantes are supposed to be on "I'm Ready For Love" and I just don't hear that.

[reese]

Rosalind's voice was very distinctive when she was in the group, and I think it is sometimes easier to tell whether or not additional vocalists were used. On the recordings done after she left, I honestly have no idea.

[blackguy69]

I'm pretty sure the andantes were added to I'm ready for love along with betty and roz

[floyjoy678]

Most of the songs beginning with "Dancing In the Streets" have additional vocalists singing with Rosalind and Betty. Martha complained in her autobiography that Rosalind's harmony was not as tight with Betty's as it was with Annette. After "Honey Chile" it seems purely Andantes to me. There are certain songs such as "My Baby Loves Me", "Love Makes Me Do Foolish Things" and [[according to Martha) "I'm Ready For Love" where the Andantes replace the Vandellas completely.

[bradsupremes]

I think there is a big misconception that the Andantes were added to tracks with Roz, Betty, and Lois. Those tracks are just the Andantes. It applies to the Marvelettes. There's no Roz and Betty on "I'm Ready For Love" just as Gladys and Kat are not on "Don't Mess With Bill" and just about every post-65 hit.

I find it interesting that on post-1967 recordings, Mary & Cindy appear on more Supremes recordings than Roz, Betty, Lois, Sandra and Gladys, Kat, Ann appear on Vandellas & Marvelettes recordings combined.

[thanxal]

I find it interesting that on post-1967 recordings, Mary & Cindy appear on more Supremes recordings than Roz, Betty, Lois, Sandra and Gladys, Kat, Ann appear on Vandellas & Marvelettes recordings combined.

And yet, no one has massive coronaries when this is brought up. Why does the same in a discussion of the Supremes cause WWIII? Its just history. Can't change it.

I do find it interesting that there are no Vandellas on "I'm Ready for Love" and others. Do we have session logs like we found out about when the Supremes Extended Editions were released? There must be, no?

Edit: I do wish we had a definitive "who sang what" publication from the session logs. I doubt it would be worth Andy's time [[or the resulting firestorm in our little teacup here, but it WOULD be interesting).

[jobeterob]

And yet, no one has massive coronaries when this is brought up. Why does the same in a discussion of the Supremes cause WWIII? Its just history. Can't change it.

I do find it interesting that there are no Vandellas on "I'm Ready for Love" and others. Do we have session logs like we found out about when the Supremes Extended Editions were released? There must be, no?

Edit: I do wish we had a definitive "who sang what" publication from the session logs. I doubt it would be worth Andy's time [[or the resulting firestorm in our little teacup here, but it WOULD be interesting).

For Motown History purposes, the definitive "who sang what" would be excellent. As Andy said many years ago though - you might wish you had never asked the question.

Isn't part of the problem in this that the group members recorded the songs TOO; as did the Andantes; and no one except the Producer really knew the mix of the members on the actual recording?? It is pretty clear to me that the single version of Stop In the Name of Love is NOT Mary & Florence - as one of the booklets pointed out. But they are certainly on other versions of the song.

The reason the Supremes generate controversy is because they and Ross were the stars; only Diana REALLY went to the movies; only Diana got nominated for an acting Oscar; only Diana did Central Park. Diana and the Supremes got all the #1 records. They attracted the lightning. As Billy Dee once said "diana enjoyed her stardom to the Nth degree".

Sad to hear there were no Marvelettes in the background of Don't Mess With Bill.

[floyjoy678]

I usually just go by what the artists themselves say. Martha did say to me via email many years ago that it is she and the Andantes on "I'm Ready For Love". In this same email she also said that it is only herself and other session singers doing the backgrounds on most of the Black Magic album. I would say that Sandra Tilley was more of a face for the group being that she only ended up participating in a handful of recording sessions.

Jobeterob, Louvain Demps has said twice that Florence is on Stop In the Name of Love.

[thanxal]

I usually just go by what the artists themselves say. Martha did say to me via email many years ago that it is she and the Andantes on "I'm Ready For Love". In this same email she also said that it is only herself and other session singers doing the backgrounds on most of the Black Magic album. I would say that Sandra Tilley was more of a face for the group being that she only ended up participating in a handful of recording sessions.

Jobeterob, Louvain Demps has said twice that Florence is on Stop In the Name of Love.

I take your email as definitive. But they can't email or remember everything. Session logs should be definitive. And yes, I recall that Louvain said that Flo was on SITNOL, I think on Jon Perrone's show if memory serves.

[blackguy69]

should've known we can't have a vandellas discussion without mentioning the supremes, but moving on, can anyone name any songs that Lois or Sandra sang in other than their version of something

[reese]

should've known we can't have a vandellas discussion without mentioning the supremes, but moving on, can anyone name any songs that Lois or Sandra sang in other than their version of something

Martha has mentioned that HONEY CHILE was Lois' first recording session.

[bradsupremes]

should've known we can't have a vandellas discussion without mentioning the supremes, but moving on, can anyone name any songs that Lois or Sandra sang in other than their version of something

I have no clue what other songs Lois and Sandra recorded. I don't even know what they sound like. For all we know, those could be session singers on "Something." Other than "Honey Chile" and "Show Me The Way," what other songs did Roz and Lois record? Honestly, I don't know. I think that's the problem in identifying them in post-67 recordings. The lack of recordings featuring just the two ladies is hard to know what other songs they did.

[blackguy69]

Martha did say Sandra did record Something. Plus I do know Sandra did record a lead vocal with the velvelettes [[we got a honey love)

[PeaceNHarmony]

And yet, no one has massive coronaries when this is brought up. Why does the same in a discussion of the Supremes cause WWIII? Its just history. Can't change it.

I do find it interesting that there are no Vandellas on "I'm Ready for Love" and others. Do we have session logs like we found out about when the Supremes Extended Editions were released? There must be, no?

Edit: I do wish we had a definitive "who sang what" publication from the session logs. I doubt it would be worth Andy's time [[or the resulting firestorm in our little teacup here, but it WOULD be interesting).

I, too, would love a definitive history of who sang what. What we do know, without a doubt, is that Diana sang lead on every single Supremes recording that sold, and Martha sang lead on every single Vandellas recording that sold. Why Ross attracts a virtual alt-right is anyone's guess. It's clear from the first Sullivan performance onward was the star. Who billed and cooed, shimmied and swayed, in the background didn't really matter to 99% of the record buying public for either group, like it or not. There is a psychological syndrome [[I forget the name!) wherein people with chips on their shoulders identify with also-rans [[think Tonya Harding fans ...) Like it or not Martha's hit-making career ended as Diana's ascended. That, too, probably adds to the mix. But reality is the key - I LOVE Esther Phillips, but for me to make believe she was a bigger star than Diana ... well, what-evs. Those who post 25+ on a music blog daily most likely have other issues they should be dealing with.

[RanRan79]

I guess I'm going to have to listen to my favorite Martha and the Vandellas song with new ears if everyone is hearing the Andantes except me! And if Martha is confirming that the Vandellas aren't on it, well I have to go with that.

[RanRan79]

I, too, would love a definitive history of who sang what. What we do know, without a doubt, is that Diana sang lead on every single Supremes recording that sold, and Martha sang lead on every single Vandellas recording that sold. Why Ross attracts a virtual alt-right is anyone's guess. It's clear from the first Sullivan performance onward was the star. Who billed and cooed, shimmied and swayed, in the background didn't really matter to 99% of the record buying public for either group, like it or not. There is a psychological syndrome [[I forget the name!) wherein people with chips on their shoulders identify with also-rans [[think Tonya Harding fans ...) Like it or not Martha's hit-making career ended as Diana's ascended. That, too, probably adds to the mix. But reality is the key - I LOVE Esther Phillips, but for me to make believe she was a bigger star than Diana ... well, what-evs. Those who post 25+ on a music blog daily most likely have other issues they should be dealing with.

Chip or not, it's posts like these suggesting that Diana Ross was the Supremes that are one of the reasons the wars break out in the first place. There's a lot of evidence to the contrary, but just like the real "alt-right", facts don't seem to matter. Now back to the Vandellas...

[RanRan79]

Does anyone know if there are any live recordings of Lois and Sandy as Vandellas with Martha in the vaults?

[blackguy69]

There is an appearance on the Mike Douglas show around Christmas 1968 that they did live vocals. Problem is the quality is not good

[blackguy69]

https://youtu.be/LBovc8MFYjE

[blackguy69]

I, too, would love a definitive history of who sang what. What we do know, without a doubt, is that Diana sang lead on every single Supremes recording that sold, and Martha sang lead on every single Vandellas recording that sold. Why Ross attracts a virtual alt-right is anyone's guess. It's clear from the first Sullivan performance onward was the star. Who billed and cooed, shimmied and swayed, in the background didn't really matter to 99% of the record buying public for either group, like it or not. There is a psychological syndrome [[I forget the name!) wherein people with chips on their shoulders identify with also-rans [[think Tonya Harding fans ...) Like it or not Martha's hit-making career ended as Diana's ascended. That, too, probably adds to the mix. But reality is the key - I LOVE Esther Phillips, but for me to make believe she was a bigger star than Diana ... well, what-evs. Those who post 25+ on a music blog daily most likely have other issues they should be dealing with.

Real quick I know what Ran means. Martha was always the lead. That was how it was set up. The supremes was not set up that way.

[thanxal]

Well, this thread leads me to the question ...Are any Vandellas on any of the album tracks after Dance Party? [[Edit: Other than Live!).

[blackguy69]

Well, this thread leads me to the question ...Are any Vandellas on any of the album tracks after Dance Party? [[Edit: Other than Live!).

I'm pretty sure that the answer is yes

[bradsupremes]

Does anyone know if there are any live recordings of Lois and Sandy as Vandellas with Martha in the vaults?

I wish Universal would do a Motown Live series on iTunes. There has to be tons of live shows in the vaults. Motown recorded lots of those Motown Mondays shows at the Roostertail. I know there is a Velvelettes live show from 1966 unreleased. I personally would love to see a 2-CD collection of the Vandellas Live album [[both mono & stereo albums) remastered and the Copa '68 show. It's very possible they recorded more shows.

[bradsupremes]

Well, this thread leads me to the question ...Are any Vandellas on any of the album tracks after Dance Party? [[Edit: Other than Live!).

Vandellas appear on every album. It's when you get to Sugar & Spice that it starts to get murky. That album might be all Andantes [[but don't quote me on that). Even the Ridin' High album is mostly Andantes.

If Motown had no problem using the Andantes on Supremes recordings, their top act on the label, why would it be any different for any other group? That's why we need to get rid of this notion that "the Vandellas or Marvelettes are there, but the Andantes were added." It's just Andantes.

[blackguy69]

Vandellas appear on every album. It's when you get to Sugar & Spice that it starts to get murky. That album might be all Andantes [[but don't quote me on that). Even the Ridin' High album is mostly Andantes.

If Motown had no problem using the Andantes on Supremes recordings, their top act on the label, why would it be any different for any other group? That's why we need to get rid of this notion that "the Vandellas or Marvelettes are there, but the Andantes were added." It's just Andantes.

But since we're not 100 percent sure, can't say that either. I've heard what Martha has said but Roz and Lois has said different to an extent.

[bradsupremes]

Watchout [[1966)
Vandellas
- One Way Out
- Jimmy Mack
- He Doesn't Love Her Anymore
- What Am I Going To Do Without Your Love
- No More Tearstained Make Up
- I'll Follow You [[Definitely additional voices added)

Andantes
- I'm Ready For Love
- Go Ahead And Laugh
- Let This Day Be
- Happiness Is Guaranteed

Vandellas & Andantes
- Tell Me I'll Never Be Alone

Toss-up [[Can't tell if its the Vandellas or Andantes)
- Keep It Up


Ridin' High [[1968)
Vandellas
- Honey Chile
- Love Bug Leave My Heart Alone
- Show Me The Way

Andantes
- [[There's) Always Something There To Remind Me
- Leave It In The Hands Of Love
- I'm In Love [[And I Know It)
- [[We've Got) Honey Love
- I Say A Little Prayer
- To Sir With Love
- Forget Me Not
- Without You

Other vocalists
- I Promise To Wait My Love [[Martha said it was Billie Jean Brown singing on this)

Sugar & Spice [[1969)
Pretty sure this is just Martha & the Andantes. The exception may be "I Hope You Have Better Luck Than I Did" which could possibly Martha with the Marvelettes on background vocals as HDH used the same track.

I won't even get into the last two albums since I don't know what Lois & Sandra sound like.

[daviddesper]

As I became more enlightened about the Andantes having been used so heavily, I tried to guess which recordings might have really been the actual group. One Vandellas song that I was convinced really WAS the Vandellas was "Shoe Leather Expressway." I would have bet money that was Lois doing the "uh uh uh" after Martha sings "Pick up and Lay em down" but now that fantasy is shattered.

[MOTOWNLYNDA]

It is The Vandellas on KEEP IT UP. It is probably Roz and Annette like on the 1963 version and just remixed for WATCHOUT! Roz told me years ago that it is her and Betty on SHOW ME THE WAY. Speaking of SHOW ME THE WAY, Martha Reeves and The Vandellas performed it this year at her Birthday Celebration Concert

[reese]

Sugar & Spice [[1969)
Pretty sure this is just Martha & the Andantes. The exception may be "I Hope You Have Better Luck Than I Did" which could possibly Martha with the Marvelettes on background vocals as HDH used the same track.

On SUGAR AND SPICE, I believe the background vocals on the Ashford and Simpson productions of IT AIN'T LIKE THAT and I'M A WINNER are by A&S, with maybe some others. Nick is quite audible on I'M A WINNER.

[marv2]

The Vandellas were excellent backing vocalists on Marvin Gaye's early recordings.

[RanRan79]

I guess I'm going to have to listen to my favorite Martha and the Vandellas song with new ears if everyone is hearing the Andantes except me! And if Martha is confirming that the Vandellas aren't on it, well I have to go with that.

Okay, I've been listening to "I'm Ready For Love" over the last couple weeks and I finally have to hold my hands up and accept that it is indeed the Andantes on this song. I can hear some of their familiar sound, but it still doesn't sound like their usual selves. Perhaps there's one less Andante on the song? And those "oohs" during the chorus has always sounded like Rosalind to me, which is probably why I never noticed the Andantes sound in other places on the song. So while I am in agreement that the Andantes are on this song, I'm not convinced Rosalind isn't doing those high "oohs" just yet. Is it me or do you all think the voice sounds like Rosalind?

[captainjames]

It is kind of difficult to distinguish for me with the exception of Roz. I could not get a good ear of what Sandra, Annette, Betty or Lois sounded like. Black Majic still remains one of my favorite LP's and I know it doesn't have one Vandella on it. I agree with whoever said A & S songs have A & S in the background. I can definitely hear Valerie and Nick and I think Ray Simpson.

Also, Andy is right about being careful what you ask because you may not like the answer to these questions. Now Roz and Betty were great singers so maybe its true Motown just used who was there at the time.