Did Mary and Flo Ever Perform As A Duo ?

**milven** · 07-23-2017, 09:55 PM

I kind of know the answer to this, but, in reading an obituary on Bobby Taylor, I read this:

As The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 8 describes, when lead singer Tommy Melton left the Bachelors, Taylor accepted the group's offer to be his replacement. From the mid-'60s, their line-up now firm, they were working at Vancouver supper club the Cave, also known for its late shows as the Elegant Parlour. One night, they opened for Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard of the Supremes, who were so impressed that they called Berry Gordy, who flew from Detroit to see them and avowed to make them stars.

Renamed as Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers, they arrived in Detroit just as the city was engulfed by its infamous race riots. By November, Gordy himself was producing 'Does Your Mama,' which made its R&B chart entry in April 1968. It helped the group to a short period in the limelight before they went their separate ways, partly because of what happened to Taylor next. The following year, he would be finding a different kind of success.

I'm guessing that they opened for the Supremes. Wonder why it said that they opened for Mary and Flo.
Lots of Supremes fans here. Anyone know?

Here is link to full article:

http://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/d...oned-jackson-5

**marv2** · 07-23-2017, 10:14 PM

Mary and Flo discovered Bobby and the Vancouvers. Mary is the one who insisted that Berry come down to the club they were playing in Vancouver [["The Cave" maybe) and give them a listen.

I am pretty sure I know why that story in the article reads the way it does if they got it from Bobby...............

**marv2** · 07-23-2017, 10:22 PM

Weldon McDougal was a member here until he passed several years ago. A great guy and I miss him too.

**captainjames** · 07-23-2017, 10:27 PM

I know Mary and Flo are credited with bringing him to Motown or at least telling Gordy. There is probably little to no chance they went on that stage without Diana under Motown after 1964.

**marv2** · 07-23-2017, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

I know Mary and Flo are credited with bringing him to Motown or at least telling Gordy. There is probably little to no chance they went on that stage without Diana under Motown after 1964.

Diana Ross did not even want to go and hear Bobby Taylor & the Vancouvers. Berry Gordy forced her to go along with him and she sat there frowning at the group and acting very rude.........according to Bobby. There is more to this story, but it would cause a problem for diana ross fans, so I will refrain from telling it. So whoever wants to jump......feel free to do so. I am sure there are one or two of you all ready. 1,2,3 Go for it!

**captainjames** · 07-23-2017, 10:43 PM

In fact I just checked, Mary and Flo never did a show without Diana. No Diana............. no Supremes.

**marv2** · 07-23-2017, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

In fact I just checked, Mary and Flo never did a show without Diana. No Diana............. no Supremes.

That is not why the story in the article is written that way. That was just a question Milven had. I see this all went over your head.

PS, If No Diana, no Supremes then who recorded "Up the Ladder to the Roof", "Stone Love", "Nathan Jones", "Floy Joy" "He's My Man" etc.etc? That's right! The Supremes did!

**marv2** · 07-23-2017, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

In fact I just checked, Mary and Flo never did a show without Diana. No Diana............. no Supremes.

Also, if you checked, Diane has never done a Supremes show without Mary. Oh she tried but it got cancelled............

**PeaceNHarmony** · 07-23-2017, 11:25 PM

Ummm ..... 50 years later .... really? I think someone would have noticed.

**luke** · 07-23-2017, 11:34 PM

And the Motowner who reported Telma Hopkins took Diana's place with Flo and Mary for some shows, and there was no problem. Just reporting. Stay calm lol l!

**jobeterob** · 07-23-2017, 11:34 PM

No one outside of this forum even knows who Mary Wilson is - well except her family, Pedro and tom jones; well Marv of course

**luke** · 07-23-2017, 11:37 PM

I think you need to check the threads and posts per the people who love Mary and Flo and Cindy[[and Diana) Why try to diminish Ms Wilson?

**captainjames** · 07-23-2017, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by luke

And the Motowner who reported Telma Hopkins took Diana's place with Flo and Mary for some shows, and there was no problem. Just reporting. Stay calm lol l!

So Sorry but Telma Hopkins has stated that never happen.
So back to the original statement - Mary and Flo singing without Diana in concert or rec hall or ballpark, garage, basement or sock party after 1964 and under Motown......it did not happen.

**luke** · 07-23-2017, 11:50 PM

No need to be sorry. Where is her statement? Motown executive's is documented in book.

**captainjames** · 07-23-2017, 11:56 PM

We have discussed this before check the threads under Thread: Telma Hopkins And The Surpemes!?
Also, the documented proof you are referring to is undocumented account from a bunch of crap.

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by luke

And the Motowner who reported Telma Hopkins took Diana's place with Flo and Mary for some shows, and there was no problem. Just reporting. Stay calm lol l!

That's right I remember that. I also remember seeing a CD on Amazon that had only Mary and Flo on cover. LOL!

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

No one outside of this forum even knows who Mary Wilson is - well except her family, Pedro and tom jones; well Marv of course

Oh go back to sleep with that old tired talk. Shouldn't you be somewhere worrying about the opiate and heroin crisis going on up there?

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by luke

I think you need to check the threads and posts per the people who love Mary and Flo and Cindy[[and Diana) Why try to diminish Ms Wilson?

He's just being silly. Trying to get your goat. He himself has been talking about Mary Wilson for 14 years non-stop on here. Jobeterob, she don't want you. She says you're not her type! LOL!!!!

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

So Sorry but Telma Hopkins has stated that never happen.
So back to the original statement - Mary and Flo singing without Diana in concert or rec hall or ballpark, garage, basement or sock party after 1964 and under Motown......it did not happen.

Mary has been singing all over the World for over 40 years without Diana Ross!

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by milven

I kind of know the answer to this, but, in reading an obituary on Bobby Taylor, I read this:

As The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 8 describes, when lead singer Tommy Melton left the Bachelors, Taylor accepted the group's offer to be his replacement. From the mid-'60s, their line-up now firm, they were working at Vancouver supper club the Cave, also known for its late shows as the Elegant Parlour. One night, they opened for Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard of the Supremes, who were so impressed that they called Berry Gordy, who flew from Detroit to see them and avowed to make them stars.

Renamed as Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers, they arrived in Detroit just as the city was engulfed by its infamous race riots. By November, Gordy himself was producing 'Does Your Mama,' which made its R&B chart entry in April 1968. It helped the group to a short period in the limelight before they went their separate ways, partly because of what happened to Taylor next. The following year, he would be finding a different kind of success.

I'm guessing that they opened for the Supremes. Wonder why it said that they opened for Mary and Flo.
Lots of Supremes fans here. Anyone know?

Here is link to full article:

http://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/d...oned-jackson-5

Bobby told the story and that is where the person that wrote the article got that part about Mary and Flo and how he and his band opened for them. Bobby was not a fan of Diana Ross before and after she stole his credit for the Jackson Five. Who could blame him?

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Mary and Flo discovered Bobby and the Vancouvers. Mary is the one who insisted that Berry come down to the club they were playing in Vancouver [["The Cave" maybe) and give them a listen.

I am pretty sure I know why that story in the article reads the way it does if they got it from Bobby...............

The story has always gone that Flo and Mary caught Bobby and the Vancouvers act one night and turned Berry Gordy on to them. Florence and Mary have always gotten credit for discovering the group for Motown. Other than the liner notes of Bobby's Motown anthology mentioning that later Diana Ross also caught their act, I've never seen her name mentioned in conjunction with the band's discovery. That, I'm willing to bet money, is the reason Diana's name is not mentioned in the referenced article.

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Diana Ross did not even want to go and hear Bobby Taylor & the Vancouvers. Berry Gordy forced her to go along with him and she sat there frowning at the group and acting very rude.........according to Bobby. There is more to this story, but it would cause a problem for diana ross fans, so I will refrain from telling it. So whoever wants to jump......feel free to do so. I am sure there are one or two of you all ready. 1,2,3 Go for it!

All kinds of crazy happenings were going on with this bunch back in the day. I'm sure the truth is probably stranger than the fiction. [[Isn't it always?) But it's amazing to me that of all the people whose paths I've crossed who have worked with or spent time around old Motowners, somehow you're the one that everyone couldn't resist telling their Diana Ross horror stories to? I mean how is it that you- someone who obviously has a disdain for the woman- somehow lucks up in being the one that gets to hear all these Diana Ross stories? What was it about you that supposedly had all these people coming up to you to give you the inside dirt? Is it possible that you just have that kind of luck? I almost want to believe you when you tell these stories because the alternative is so much more frightening. LOL

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by luke

And the Motowner who reported Telma Hopkins took Diana's place with Flo and Mary for some shows, and there was no problem. Just reporting. Stay calm lol l!

Who would believe such a ridiculous story? Did you hear about the time Johnnie Jackson stepped in for Michael in the J5 and no one batted an eye?

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

No one outside of this forum even knows who Mary Wilson is - well except her family, Pedro and tom jones; well Marv of course

I think Mary's touring schedule, project involvement, and the amount of interviews she is asked to do annually would beg to differ.

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

We have discussed this before check the threads under Thread: Telma Hopkins And The Surpemes!?
Also, the documented proof you are referring to is undocumented account from a bunch of crap.

I can't even believe such a tale wouldn't be immediately dismissed! You mean to tell me people were buying that malarkey? It doesn't even make sense. If Diana could be replaced so easily onstage, there wouldn't have ever been a need to turn the Supremes into DRATS and then send Diana off into solo stardom. Why not use Telma instead?

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 10:40 AM

There is one documented case of Flo and Mary performing as a duo on stage after the Supremes became international singing stars. When Diana had her health crisis onstage in Boston and was whisked away, Florence and Mary continued their performance without her of the song they were in the middle of.

Marv did anyone tell you that no one noticed Diana had even left the stage? LMAO

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

There is one documented case of Flo and Mary performing as a duo on stage after the Supremes became international singing stars. When Diana had her health crisis onstage in Boston and was whisked away, Florence and Mary continued their performance without her of the song they were in the middle of.

Marv did anyone tell you that no one noticed Diana had even left the stage? LMAO

No I was too young when that happened. I was in grade school and we were probably playing on the playground when that happened LOL!

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

All kinds of crazy happenings were going on with this bunch back in the day. I'm sure the truth is probably stranger than the fiction. [[Isn't it always?) But it's amazing to me that of all the people whose paths I've crossed who have worked with or spent time around old Motowners, somehow you're the one that everyone couldn't resist telling their Diana Ross horror stories to? I mean how is it that you- someone who obviously has a disdain for the woman- somehow lucks up in being the one that gets to hear all these Diana Ross stories? What was it about you that supposedly had all these people coming up to you to give you the inside dirt? Is it possible that you just have that kind of luck? I almost want to believe you when you tell these stories because the alternative is so much more frightening. LOL

Bobby didn't tell me that story directly. He told the story via an hour long interview he did from Hong Kong on video that was on Youtube and later posted on this forum several years ago. I am a couple of others searched for it again, but it has been taken down. That story came from Bobby himself. He said that she was a "Scrub".

**luke** · 07-24-2017, 11:48 AM

The Latin Casino wanted Mary and Cindy to do the show when Diana stormed out.

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Bobby didn't tell me that story directly. He told the story via an hour long interview he did from Hong Kong on video that was on Youtube and later posted on this forum several years ago. I am a couple of others searched for it again, but it has been taken down. That story came from Bobby himself. He said that she was a "Scrub".

Duly noted.

**RanRan79** · 07-24-2017, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by luke

The Latin Casino wanted Mary and Cindy to do the show when Diana stormed out.

I believe you're right Luke, but that would have been the worst show ever. The Supremes show was scheduled right down to the minute. Removing the lead singer would have forced Mary and Cindy to improvise their way through the show. Both were certainly professional enough to do it, but how would it have looked? Who would sing the leads? Would they abandon the choreography? If Diana was too upset to do the show seems like the best case scenario was to cancel the first night and attempt to get through it tomorrow.

**captainjames** · 07-24-2017, 06:58 PM

I know the show went on when Jean got sick and Lynda took the lead but never a show without Diana. I seem to remember Diana even saying on TV that there was no stand in for her. I will state it a different way this time....NO Diana ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no show.
If you don't believe this then ask BG himself.

**marv2** · 07-24-2017, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

I know the show went on when Jean got sick and Lynda took the lead but never a show without Diana. I seem to remember Diana even saying on TV that there was no stand in for her. I will state it a different way this time....NO Diana ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no show.
If you don't believe this then ask BG himself.

When Jean Terrell replaced her she was soooo good I forgot about Diane's last 3 years as a Supreme.

**Bluebrock** · 07-25-2017, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

When Jean Terrell replaced her she was soooo good I forgot about Diane's last 3 years as a Supreme.

I very much doubt you are capable of forgetting anything about Diana Ross such is your obsession with her.

**franjoy56** · 07-25-2017, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

So Sorry but Telma Hopkins has stated that never happen.
So back to the original statement - Mary and Flo singing without Diana in concert or rec hall or ballpark, garage, basement or sock party after 1964 and under Motown......it did not happen.

I beg differ i. Listen to t supremes concert at t roostertail found on the symphony expended u will hear mary and flo doing people without diana ross yes i said it Was she cut from t track.hmmmm

**RanRan79** · 07-25-2017, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by franjoy56

I beg differ i. Listen to t supremes concert at t roostertail found on the symphony expended u will hear mary and flo doing people without diana ross yes i said it Was she cut from t track.hmmmm

Uh Franjoy, are you deaf? LOL The three Supremes are singing "People". Diana is very audible in the harmony.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 07-25-2017, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by franjoy56

I beg differ i. Listen to t supremes concert at t roostertail found on the symphony expended u will hear mary and flo doing people without diana ross yes i said it Was she cut from t track.hmmmm

Well that certainly could be so; I haven't heard the track. But I also misinterpreted the question, thinking that it meant an entire concert or other appearance -

**LoveSupreme** · 07-25-2017, 09:45 AM

I had a conversation with a friend the other day and we were wondering if people considered The Supremes a duo after the group's name was changed to Diana Ross and The Supremes because technically it was Diana Ross and Mary & Cindy [[both of them being The Supremes).

Did Diana ever introduce them as a separate entity like" Hi, I'm Diana Ross and these are the Supremes".

**blackguy69** · 07-25-2017, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by LoveSupreme

I had a conversation with a friend the other day and we were wondering if people considered The Supremes a duo after the group's name was changed to Diana Ross and The Supremes because technically it was Diana Ross and Mary & Cindy [[both of them being The Supremes).

Did Diana ever introduce them as a separate entity like" Hi, I'm Diana Ross and these are the Supremes".

As far as I know she always she always said that we're the supremes. The only time I ever heard her use Diana Ross and the supremes was the farewell performance

**franjoy56** · 07-25-2017, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Uh Franjoy, are you deaf? LOL The three Supremes are singing "People". Diana is very audible in the harmony.

i didnt notice her vocals in the harmony but after listening again i do her ever so slightly. Apparently t. Performance was a showcasr f flo and mary since ross was not featured on any solo lines. That would have been a good time for her to go backstage and cool her vocals off since she carried t lead on all t other songs. I stand corrected but glad to hear mary and flo prominrntly featured in a live show

**RanRan79** · 07-25-2017, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by franjoy56

i didnt notice her vocals in the harmony but after listening again i do her ever so slightly. Apparently t. Performance was a showcasr f flo and mary since ross was not featured on any solo lines. That would have been a good time for her to go backstage and cool her vocals off since she carried t lead on all t other songs. I stand corrected but glad to hear mary and flo prominrntly featured in a live show

Diana was still a member of the group. It would not have made sense for her to take a break. The song was mostly a showcase for their harmony. Apparently in 1966 Mary started doing the verse that Diana used to do.

**captainjames** · 07-25-2017, 01:48 PM

I have seen many concerts with the ladies and Diana always said "we" are the Supremes or I am Diana Ross and this is Mary Wilson.....etc...and we're the Supremes.

**144man** · 07-25-2017, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by LoveSupreme

I had a conversation with a friend the other day and we were wondering if people considered The Supremes a duo after the group's name was changed to Diana Ross and The Supremes because technically it was Diana Ross and Mary & Cindy [[both of them being The Supremes).

Did Diana ever introduce them as a separate entity like" Hi, I'm Diana Ross and these are the Supremes".

That discussion only arises because of a deficiency in the English language. Correctly calling the group "Diana Ross and the Other Supremes" just sounds stupid.

**detmotownguy** · 07-25-2017, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Diana was still a member of the group. It would not have made sense for her to take a break. The song was mostly a showcase for their harmony. Apparently in 1966 Mary started doing the verse that Diana used to do.

they could do harmony better than the rest. I wish they did more. I love the Roostertail concert.

**marv2** · 07-25-2017, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

they could do harmony better than the rest. I wish they did more. I love the Roostertail concert.

The were excellent at harmonies as the Primettes and as the young Supremes with Barbara. The producers at Motown and Barbara leaving almost destroy that. Even when the remaining three harmonized....it was Heaven!

**RanRan79** · 07-25-2017, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

they could do harmony better than the rest. I wish they did more. I love the Roostertail concert.

They were certainly among the best. A very underrated skill of theirs. I think many of those Supremes records during the Flo years would have been even better if the producers had used Diana in the background harmony. One of my favorites of their harmonies is the background on Kim Weston's "Feel Alright".

**RanRan79** · 07-25-2017, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

The were excellent at harmonies as the Primettes and as the young Supremes with Barbara. The producers at Motown and Barbara leaving almost destroy that. Even when the remaining three harmonized....it was Heaven!

I disagree slightly. I think the group got better when Barbara left. It's unfortunate that we don't have any known audio of the group with Betty, so there's nothing to compare that to. But IMO with Barbara in the harmony, they sound like your average teeny bopper girl group. Once Barbara was gone the harmonies seemed to get tighter and more sophisticated, and in many ways set them apart from the competition. In my mind the top best things to happen to the Supremes in the early years were:

1) Milton Jenkins no longer managing them
2) They refused to take "no" for an answer from Motown
3) Barbara left

**sansradio** · 07-25-2017, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

They were certainly among the best. A very underrated skill of theirs. I think many of those Supremes records during the Flo years would have been even better if the producers had used Diana in the background harmony. One of my favorites of their harmonies is the background on Kim Weston's "Feel Alright".

I didn't realize The Girls were backing Kim on "Feel Alright." I've been systematically downloading all their background work, but this one escaped me. Thanks for the tip!

**captainjames** · 07-25-2017, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by 144man

That discussion only arises because of a deficiency in the English language. Correctly calling the group "Diana Ross and the Other Supremes" just sounds stupid.

LOL now that's very well said.

**captainjames** · 07-25-2017, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

I disagree slightly. I think the group got better when Barbara left. It's unfortunate that we don't have any known audio of the group with Betty, so there's nothing to compare that to. But IMO with Barbara in the harmony, they sound like your average teeny bopper girl group. Once Barbara was gone the harmonies seemed to get tighter and more sophisticated, and in many ways set them apart from the competition. In my mind the top best things to happen to the Supremes in the early years were:

1) Milton Jenkins no longer managing them
2) They refused to take "no" for an answer from Motown
3) Barbara left

There is just so little to compare it to.