The Gladys-less Marvelettes

[RanRan79]

In another thread Big Al brings up an interesting point: after Gladys left, who took over her leads like "Please Mr. Postman" in their shows, Wanda or Ann? I've never even seen footage or heard audio of any Marvelettes performance after the Teen Town Supremes episode in 1966. Did they do any TV after that? Did anyone catch any of their Ann years shows?

[TomatoTom123]

Mmm, interesting question, RanRan. I haven't seen footage of The Marvelettes performing after 1966 either. I would like to think that they still were on TV and stuff though... they had decent-sized hits in "The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game" and "When You're Young And In Love" in 1967, and "My Baby Must Be A Magician" and "Here I Am, Baby" in 1968. I'd love to see some!

[RanRan79]

So would I Tom. But I guess no one has seen them post 1966. How sad.

[reese]

Someone mentioned the girls performing MY BABY MUST BE A MAGICIAN on a local show [[perhaps SWINGIN' TIME) and doing a sort of "I Dream of Jeannie" head move when they sang the "magic touch" line.

[144man]

So would I Tom. But I guess no one has seen them post 1966. How sad.

In the 90s, billed as the Marvelettes, Gladys did perform in concert in the UK with two other girls whose names I can't remember. When I saw them at Wimbledon, the support group was the Shangri-las, none of whom were original members.

[RanRan79]

Someone mentioned the girls performing MY BABY MUST BE A MAGICIAN on a local show [[perhaps SWINGIN' TIME) and doing a sort of "I Dream of Jeannie" head move when they sang the "magic touch" line.

I bet that was something to see!

[TomatoTom123]

So would I Tom. But I guess no one has seen them post 1966. How sad.

Yea, a shame, RanRan. It would be great to see performances of their later hits.

[TomatoTom123]

Someone mentioned the girls performing MY BABY MUST BE A MAGICIAN on a local show [[perhaps SWINGIN' TIME) and doing a sort of "I Dream of Jeannie" head move when they sang the "magic touch" line.

Oh, wow, that does sound good.

I believe there is quite a lot of footage of The Velvelettes performing their songs on shows like Swingin' Time... I always thought that was a bit odd as their hits weren't as big as The Marvelettes'... still great to see of course

[marybrewster]

In the 90s, billed as the Marvelettes, Gladys did perform in concert in the UK with two other girls whose names I can't remember. When I saw them at Wimbledon, the support group was the Shangri-las, none of whom were original members.

I believe Gladys' 80s/90's Marvelettes were sisters Jackie and Regina Holleman.

[lakeside]

In 1989 original members Wanda Rogers and Gladys Horton, plus Echo Johnson and Jean McLain, recorded for Motor City, issuing the disco-sounding ‘Holding On With Both Hands’ and Now. Johnson and McLain were replaced by Jackie and Regina Holleman for subsequent releases.

[lockhartgary]

Years ago I read the book, "Original Marvelettes: Motown's Mystery Girl Group", by Marc Taylor but I don't remember reading about leads in concerts after Gladys left.

[RanRan79]

Years ago I read the book, "Original Marvelettes: Motown's Mystery Girl Group", by Marc Taylor but I don't remember reading about leads in concerts after Gladys left.

I read that book too but for the life of me I can't remember much of anything about it, particularly what it had to say about the group after Gladys left. Maybe it's time to do a re-read.

[John G. Stumpf]

I read the book too but a lot of it didn't stick with me. I have to give it a read again.

[BigAl]

No mention is made of who took leads after Gladys left. All that is covered is how Ann was hired. Choosing the replacement for Gladys was left entirely to Wanda and Kat. Harvey Fuqua had worked with Ann years before and that's how she got the audition. According to Kat, she was the ONLY audition because once she and Wanda heard her they wanted her. By that time none of the higher-ups in the company gave a rat's ass about The Marvelettes. Kat said that she felt that, in the company's eyes, the group had served its purpose and run its course, and it didn't matter if they continued or not [[like The Supremes after Diane left), so it was up to Wanda and her to try to keep things going.

[RanRan79]

No mention is made of who took leads after Gladys left. All that is covered is how Ann was hired. Choosing the replacement for Gladys was left entirely to Wanda and Kat. Harvey Fuqua had worked with Ann years before and that's how she got the audition. According to Kat, she was the ONLY audition because once she and Wanda heard her they wanted her. By that time none of the higher-ups in the company gave a rat's ass about The Marvelettes. Kat said that she felt that, in the company's eyes, the group had served its purpose and run its course, and it didn't matter if they continued or not [[like The Supremes after Diane left), so it was up to Wanda and her to try to keep things going.

Thanks BigAl. I wish we could get more information on this period. The label was still releasing singles and albums on them so I guess someone cared about the Marvelettes. But where were they promoting the singles? If they weren't on television they at least had to have been booking shows. But if so, where?

[John G. Stumpf]

No mention is made of who took leads after Gladys left. All that is covered is how Ann was hired. Choosing the replacement for Gladys was left entirely to Wanda and Kat. Harvey Fuqua had worked with Ann years before and that's how she got the audition. According to Kat, she was the ONLY audition because once she and Wanda heard her they wanted her. By that time none of the higher-ups in the company gave a rat's ass about The Marvelettes. Kat said that she felt that, in the company's eyes, the group had served its purpose and run its course, and it didn't matter if they continued or not [[like The Supremes after Diane left), so it was up to Wanda and her to try to keep things going.

The 1969 album the Return of the Marvelettes was actually Wanda Young's anticipated solo album.

[motony]

I think most of their LIVE shows after Gladys left were at colleges and Armed Forces bases. I don't know anyone that saw them LIVE with Ann. I'm sure they did the annual Motortown Christmas Show at the Fox until they broke up.You really can't blame Motown if Wandas personal problems were causing the turmoil. Sad, because she was a great talent.

[kenneth]

When the second box set came out "Forever More," Harry Weinger was on Midnight Johnny's show for an interview. I know I asked at the time if there was any additional recordings left in the vaults of the Marvelettes, including any live performances from the latter years when Wanda was the sole lead singer. Harry or someone else who was present from Hip-O indicated they believed they had released everything via the 2 box sets and they found no live recordings, unfortunately, aside from the early Motortown Revue days, much of it [[or all of it) having already been released.

I imagine that Wanda sang all the leads in concert. Her voice and Gladys' could be quite similar at times, although Gladys had a lower under register and Wanda of course had her falsetto she could employ at various times. But on many records they are hard to tell apart because their middle range and tone, I believe, were very similar to each other.

[robpc77]

In another thread Big Al brings up an interesting point: after Gladys left, who took over her leads like "Please Mr. Postman" in their shows, Wanda or Ann? I've never even seen footage or heard audio of any Marvelettes performance after the Teen Town Supremes episode in 1966. Did they do any TV after that? Did anyone catch any of their Ann years shows?

Greetings everyone. Although this is my first post, I have been a follower of the forum for many years as far back as the days of the old forum. My apologies for the delay in responding, but I had to wait for my forum membership approval to be finalized.

The post-Gladys Marvelettes did indeed appear on Swingin' Time in 1969 to promote their new release "That's How Heartaches Are Made." Katherine, Wanda and Ann looked stunning - Wanda's hair was pulled back with a fall down her back. Ann wore her hair in an afro. They wore beautiful floor length costumes that I have never seen photographed. I'm sure I was viewing a black and white TV, so I don't know the color of their uniforms. They opened the show with "Too Many Fish in the Sea" with Ann lip-syncing to Gladys' lead vocal. Later in the broadcast they introduced "That's How Heartaches Are Made". They closed the show performing "Don't Mess With Bill."

Swingin' Time was video taped and CKLW routinely recorded over previous episodes. So that's probably why no footage of this episode survived. They only preserved special episodes such as the salute to the Supremes and the Teen Town episode that featured interviews with Berry Gordy, Barney Ales and also featured the Marvelettes performing "Postman" and "Too Many Fish."

I should also mention that after Ann join the group, the ladies decided to pitch the props and tone down their choreography in order to conform with their new 'sophisticated' image. There were no tambourines used when they performed TMFITS on Swingin Time in '69. They also discarded those placards used when performing "Danger Heartbreak Dead Ahead" in their live act.

I saw the group perform live a few months earlier at a show that they headlined at the University of Detroit. Once I collect my thoughts I will post my recollections of that event.

[RanRan79]

Thank you Robpc for your added recollections! I sure wish footage of that Swingin Time episode would surface if it still exists. Your memory of Ann lip-leading "Too Many Fish" suggests to me that she may have done Gladys' leads during her time in the group. Please come back with your memories of their concert you attended.

[kenneth]

Wow, very interesting observation that Ann was lip syncing to "Postman." Well, maybe she did sing the lead on some of the Gladys-led vocals. That would certainly have been a nice benefit for Ann, being able to take the lead more often at least on stage.

As Bob Hope used to say, "thanks for the memories!"

[robpc77]

Wow, very interesting observation that Ann was lip syncing to "Postman." Well, maybe she did sing the lead on some of the Gladys-led vocals. That would certainly have been a nice benefit for Ann, being able to take the lead more often at least on stage.

As Bob Hope used to say, "thanks for the memories!"

Hey Kenneth, Ann was lip-syncing to "Too Many Fish," not "Postman." They didn't perform "Postman" on the '69 appearance.

[robpc77]

I think most of their LIVE shows after Gladys left were at colleges and Armed Forces bases. I don't know anyone that saw them LIVE with Ann. I'm sure they did the annual Motortown Christmas Show at the Fox until they broke up.You really can't blame Motown if Wandas personal problems were causing the turmoil. Sad, because she was a great talent.

The 1967 Motortown Revue at the Fox which ran from December 23, 1967 thru January 1, 1968 was the last annual revue that featured the Marvelettes. Stevie headlined the first five days, Smokey and the Miracles headlined the last five days. Since I wanted to see the Miracles, I attended one of the matinee shows that featured the Miracles.

It is almost always erroneously reported that Gladys left the Marvelettes in 1967. When in fact she left the group shortly after this engagement in early 1968. Trust me, I was there. It was Wanda, Gladys and Katherine on that stage. And yes, Gladys was expecting her first child, although I did not know it at the time.

Ann never performed as a Marvelette at the annual Motortown Revue.

[marv2]

Greetings everyone. Although this is my first post, I have been a follower of the forum for many years as far back as the days of the old forum. My apologies for the delay in responding, but I had to wait for my forum membership approval to be finalized.

The post-Gladys Marvelettes did indeed appear on Swingin' Time in 1969 to promote their new release "That's How Heartaches Are Made". Katherine, Wanda and Ann looked stunning - Wanda's hair was pulled back with a fall down her back. Ann wore her hair in an afro. They wore beautiful floor length costumes that I have never seen photographed. I'm sure I was viewing a black and white TV, so I don't know the color of their uniforms. They opened the show with "Too Many Fish in the Sea" with Ann lip-syncing to Gladys' lead vocal. Later in the broadcast they introduced "That's How Heartaches Are Made". They closed the show performing "Don't Mess With Bill".

Swingin' Time was video taped and CKLW routinely recorded over previous episodes. So that's probably why no footage of this episode survived. They only preserved special episodes such as the salute to the Supremes and the Teen Town episode that featured interviews with Berry Gordy, Barney Ales and also featured the Marvelettes performing "Postman" and "Too Many Fish".

I should also mention that after Ann join the group, the ladies decided to pitch the props and tone down their choreography in order to conform with their new 'sophisticated' image. There were no tambourines used when they performed TMFITS on Swingin Time. They also discarded with those placards when they performed "Danger Heartbreak Dead Ahead" in their live act.

I saw the group perform live a few months earlier at a show that they headlined at the University of Detroit. Once I collect my thoughts I will post my recollections of that event.

Thanks Robpc. I use to watch Swingin Time too. I actually use to watch CKLW Channel 9 a lot back in those days.

[luke]

Welcome robpc. Good info. I wonder how that leaving in '67 got started??!

[kenneth]

Hey Kenneth, Ann was lip-syncing to "Too Many Fish," not "Postman." They didn't perform "Postman" on the '69 appearance.

Oh right. My bad. Can't believe these performances got overwritten or wiped out.

[MOTOWNLYNDA]

The 1967 Motortown Revue at the Fox which ran from December 23, 1967 thru January 1, 1968 was the last annual revue that featured the Marvelettes. Stevie headlined the first five days, Smokey and the Miracles headlined the last five days. Since I wanted to see the Miracles, I attended one of the matinee shows that featured the Miracles.

It is almost always erroneously reported that Gladys left the Marvelettes in 1967. When in fact she left the group shortly after this engagement in early 1968. Trust me, I was there. It was Wanda, Gladys and Katherine on that stage. And yes, Gladys was expecting her first child, although I did not know it at the time.

Ann never performed at the annual Motortown Revue.

Yes Rob I remember he last Motortown Revue The Marvelettes performed in 67/68 and It definitely was Wanda, Gladys and Kat.
the show I attended they wore the black gowns from the Sophisticated Soul LP. The three of them also appeared on Swinging Time during that time wearing the same gowns. When Wanda Kat and Ann sang That's How Heartaches are made I believe
the gowns were Orange or Yellow.

[brother_love]

Does anyone know anything about the young lady who joined Gladys and Wanda in the group in the early 70s? I remember her name was Theresa Lockhart and recall them all wearing long white fur coats in a photo they took. Wanda had a very long ponytail and a purple fur head piece. I'm not sure if they ever even did a show.

[robpc77]

Does anyone know anything about the young lady who joined Gladys and Wanda in the group in the early 70s? I remember her name was Theresa Lockhart and recall them all wearing long white fur coats in a photo they took. Wanda had a very long ponytail and a purple fur head piece. I'm not sure if they ever even did a show.

Gladys appeared on a daytime talk show hosted by actor George Hamilton and his ex-wife called "George & Alana" which ran for only one season [[95-96). I had forgotten the name of the show and I had to look it up on Wikipedia. They were doing a week featuring a Motown act each day.

Gladys and two other ladies sang "Postman" live. I recall it was a new arrangement and they definitely weren't singing over the original Motown track. But I don't recall there being a live band. Oddly, they sang in front of a huge backdrop with a picture of Wanda, Kat and Ann dressed in those green mini dresses. I am convinced that Ian Levine had nothing to do with this performance. They sounded absolutely great and they looked rather chic. The choreography was simple, elegant, you would have thought Cholly Adkins had prepared them. After the performance they briefly talked to Gladys. They even showed her son Sammi who was sitting audience and Gladys mentioned how proud she was for taking care of him through his disability.

Of course, I had quickly popped a tape in the VCR, but I rarely watched it. Later on, I thought that maybe the show's producers had something to do with providing Gladys with the background singers and the costumes. They looked and sounded that good. I don't even recall Gladys introducing the other ladies.

Sometime after I was looking for the tape. I searched everywhere - scanning different tapes. But I must have thrown it out by mistake. I was hoping by some miracle that it would appear on YouTube.

Oh, and I never found out what other Motown acts appeared on the show that week.

[MOTOWNLYNDA]

Does anyone know anything about the young lady who joined Gladys and Wanda in the group in the early 70s? I remember her name was Theresa Lockhart and recall them all wearing long white fur coats in a photo they took. Wanda had a very long ponytail and a purple fur head piece. I'm not sure if they ever even did a show.

The only show the three of them did together was a record show. They lip synced Too Many Fish In The Sea and Don't Mess With Bill.

[reese]

Gladys appeared on a daytime talk show hosted by actor George Hamilton and his ex-wife called "George & Alana" which ran for only one season [[95-96). I had forgotten the name of the show and I had to look it up on Wikipedia. They were doing a week featuring a Motown act each day...

... Oh, and I never found out what other Motown acts appeared on the show that week.

Gosh, I'm sorry that I missed Gladys and her group. I didn't know it was a Motown week. But I did see Martha Reeves and the Vandellas [[Lois and Delphine) on that show, possibly the same week. They sang DANCING IN THE STREET and JIMMY MACK live to track.

DANCING IN THE STREET was done to a recent track that Martha uses at times, but JIMMY MACK was done to the original 1967 track. I was surprised as Martha doesn't usually sing it in that key anymore, but she pulled it off.

[RanRan79]

The only show the three of them did together was a record show. They lip synced Too Many Fish In The Sea and Don't Mess With Bill.

Hold up. So Gladys rejoined Wanda in the 70s for one performance?

[brother_love]

Gladys appeared on a daytime talk show hosted by actor George Hamilton and his ex-wife called "George & Alana" which ran for only one season [[95-96). I had forgotten the name of the show and I had to look it up on Wikipedia. They were doing a week featuring a Motown act each day.

Gladys and two other ladies sang "Postman" live. I recall it was a new arrangement and they definitely weren't singing over the original Motown track. But I don't recall there being a live band. Oddly, they sang in front of a huge backdrop with a picture of Wanda, Kat and Ann dressed in those green mini dresses. I am convinced that Ian Levine had nothing to do with this performance. They sounded absolutely great and they looked rather chic. The choreography was simple, elegant, you would have thought Cholly Adkins had prepared them. After the performance they briefly talked to Gladys. They even showed her son Sammi who was sitting audience and Gladys mentioned how proud she was for taking care of him through his disability.

Of course, I had quickly popped a tape in the VCR, but I rarely watched it. Later on, I thought that maybe the show's producers had something to do with providing Gladys with the background singers and the costumes. They looked and sounded that good. I don't even recall Gladys introducing the other ladies.

Sometime after I was looking for the tape. I searched everywhere - scanning different tapes. But I must have thrown it out by mistake. I was hoping by some miracle that it would appear on YouTube.

Oh, and I never found out what other Motown acts appeared on the show that week.

I have that tape somewhere and a few others. I'm not clear on how to covert to mp4 to upload to YouTube.

[brother_love]

The only show the three of them did together was a record show. They lip synced Too Many Fish In The Sea and Don't Mess With Bill.

Thanks Lynda...

[marv2]

Hold up. So Gladys rejoined Wanda in the 70s for one performance?

They tried re-grouping in 1981. I saw a pic of it in either one of Peter Benjaminson's or Sharon Davis' books.

[kenneth]

They tried re-grouping in 1981. I saw a pic of it in either one of Peter Benjaminson's or Sharon Davis' books.

I remember that photo as well. Wanda was saying how hard it was to get a record deal because companies would tell her "we already have a girl singer." The caption of the photo was kind of sarcastic, saying something like "Dreams die hard," and pointing out that the white furs were fake, as I recall. I'm not sure she was trying to market her group as a reformed Marvelettes though...that I don't seem to remember.

[RanRan79]

They tried re-grouping in 1981. I saw a pic of it in either one of Peter Benjaminson's or Sharon Davis' books.

That's an interesting bit of information.

[reese]

I remember that photo as well. Wanda was saying how hard it was to get a record deal because companies would tell her "we already have a girl singer." The caption of the photo was kind of sarcastic, saying something like "Dreams die hard," and pointing out that the white furs were fake, as I recall. I'm not sure she was trying to market her group as a reformed Marvelettes though...that I don't seem to remember.

In his book on Motown, J. Randy Taborrelli ended his chapter on the Marvelettes by mentioning this grouping. He wrote that not long after his interview with Wanda, he received a letter from her announcing a return of the group and containing Polaroids of herself, Rogers, and Lockhart posed in someone's living room, wearing fake furs and outlandish hairstyles. Unfortunately, he didn't include any of the photos.

[kenneth]

In his book on Motown, J. Randy Taborrelli ended his chapter on the Marvelettes by mentioning this grouping. He wrote that not long after his interview with Wanda, he received a letter from her announcing a return of the group and containing Polaroids of herself, Rogers, and Lockhart posed in someone's living room, wearing fake furs and outlandish hairstyles. Unfortunately, he didn't include any of the photos.

That must be where I read it.

Who was the 3rd girl in the group, Reese? Your lineup refers to Wanda twice.

[reese]

That must be where I read it.

Who was the 3rd girl in the group, Reese? Your lineup refers to Wanda twice.

Woops. Rogers, Horton, and Theresa Lockhart.

[franjoy56]

Gladys appeared on a daytime talk show hosted by actor George Hamilton and his ex-wife called "George & Alana" which ran for only one season [[95-96). I had forgotten the name of the show and I had to look it up on Wikipedia. They were doing a week featuring a Motown act each day.

Gladys and two other ladies sang "Postman" live. I recall it was a new arrangement and they definitely weren't singing over the original Motown track. But I don't recall there being a live band. Oddly, they sang in front of a huge backdrop with a picture of Wanda, Kat and Ann dressed in those green mini dresses. I am convinced that Ian Levine had nothing to do with this performance. They sounded absolutely great and they looked rather chic. The choreography was simple, elegant, you would have thought Cholly Adkins had prepared them. After the performance they briefly talked to Gladys. They even showed her son Sammi who was sitting audience and Gladys mentioned how proud she was for taking care of him through his disability.

Of course, I had quickly popped a tape in the VCR, but I rarely watched it. Later on, I thought that maybe the show's producers had something to do with providing Gladys with the background singers and the costumes. They looked and sounded that good. I don't even recall Gladys introducing the other ladies.

Sometime after I was looking for the tape. I searched everywhere - scanning different tapes. But I must have thrown it out by mistake. I was hoping by some miracle that it would appear on YouTube.

Oh, and I never found out what other Motown acts appeared on the show that week.

Martha reeves and the vandellas lois and delphene

[marv2]

I remember that photo as well. Wanda was saying how hard it was to get a record deal because companies would tell her "we already have a girl singer." The caption of the photo was kind of sarcastic, saying something like "Dreams die hard," and pointing out that the white furs were fake, as I recall. I'm not sure she was trying to market her group as a reformed Marvelettes though...that I don't seem to remember.

Exactly! I remember thinking, go ahead Marvelettes. Never give up! LOL! They should have been invited to "Motown 25" though.

[marv2]

Martha reeves and the vandellas lois and delphene

Martha, Lois and Delphine also appeared on the "Montell Williams" show during the week he taped his show from Detroit.

[robpc77]

The only show the three of them did together was a record show. They lip synced Too Many Fish In The Sea and Don't Mess With Bill.

Lynda, they lip-synched "Too Many Fish," "That's How Heartaches" and "Don't Mess With Bill." By posting that they "introduced" THHAM I just wanted to convey to you all that it was their brand new release at that time.

Sorry for my not being more precise in my first post.