The Supremes - "Model of the Year", 1973

[marybrewster]

Question regarding this performance:

Can anyone take a guess why Jean, Mary, and Lynda performed "Touch" for this special? The song didn't fare well when it was released [[with Cindy's vocals) two years earlier in 1971 [[charting at #71); there had been several subsequent releases: "Floy Joy" [[1971: #16), "Automatically Sunshine" [[1972: #37), "Your Wonderful Sweet, Sweet Love" [[1972, #59) that fared better, and while perhaps they didn't chart better, "I Guess I'll Miss the Man" and "Bad Weather" were at least two of their newer releases.

[marv2]

I don't have a clue, but I remember they sounded nice.

[BayouMotownMan]

I don't have a clue, but I remember they sounded nice.

At the time of this special Mary knew fully well that Jean was leaving and suspected Lynda would be too.

Jean Terrell demanded to do her solo "He Ain't Heavy" for this show. Since there was no new product coming out on the group Mary attempted to renew interest in Touch and Bad Weather. She shot down Jean's demand in a rare act of rebellion [[Mary had been trying to convince Jean to stay) and told both Jean and Lynda in no uncertain terms that these were the two songs they'd do for this show. Jean knew this was her last performance so she did it.

[marybrewster]

At the time of this special Mary knew fully well that Jean was leaving and suspected Lynda would be too.

Jean Terrell demanded to do her solo "He Ain't Heavy" for this show. Since there was no new product coming out on the group Mary attempted to renew interest in Touch and Bad Weather. She shot down Jean's demand in a rare act of rebellion [[Mary had been trying to convince Jean to stay) and told both Jean and Lynda in no uncertain terms that these were the two songs they'd do for this show. Jean knew this was her last performance so she did it.

Thank you Bayou!

[marybrewster]

Has the "Bad Weather" clip from this performance ever surfaced?

[bradsupremes]

For years it's been said this was filmed at the Ed Sullivan Theatre in New York, but this was filmed at CBS Television City in Los Angeles.

[marv2]

For years it's been said this was filmed at the Ed Sullivan Theatre in New York, but this was filmed at CBS Television City in Los Angeles.

Yes, I had heard that about the Ed Sullivan Theater. thanks Brad.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=BayouMotownMan;392922]At the time of this special Mary knew fully well that Jean was leaving and suspected Lynda would be too.

Jean Terrell demanded to do her solo "He Ain't Heavy" for this show. Since there was no new product coming out on the group Mary attempted to renew interest in Touch and Bad Weather. She shot down Jean's demand in a rare act of rebellion [[Mary had been trying to convince Jean to stay) and told both Jean and Lynda in no uncertain terms that these were the two songs they'd do for this show. Jean knew this was her last performance so she did it.[

And therefore all but signalled the end of the Supremes as we knew them.

[PeaceNHarmony]

[And therefore all but signalled the end of the Supremes as we knew them.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree. Surely Mary tried but just did not learn anything about management and marketing even after nearly 15 successful years. I think Jean and Lynda saw the reality of the situation and had therefore decided to leave the 'contract Supremes' and move on. Whether Mary was really trying to 'keep the spirit' of the Supremes or merely cling to a paycheck we'll never know. I may tend toward the latter since she is always advertised as '... of the Supremes' but in fact does not tour simply as The Supremes with any of the many other ladies who tour under the group name. Just my opinion.

[Circa 1824]

Cocaine ain't free.

[daviddh]

oops Circa 1824.lol
was this their last performance together?
sad to see the group end on this note but it seems to be the beginning of the end.
poor management and poor decisions,'but talented ladies.
at least Mary picked some talent to be in the group

[marv2]

[QUOTE=Bluebrock;392991]

At the time of this special Mary knew fully well that Jean was leaving and suspected Lynda would be too.

Jean Terrell demanded to do her solo "He Ain't Heavy" for this show. Since there was no new product coming out on the group Mary attempted to renew interest in Touch and Bad Weather. She shot down Jean's demand in a rare act of rebellion [[Mary had been trying to convince Jean to stay) and told both Jean and Lynda in no uncertain terms that these were the two songs they'd do for this show. Jean knew this was her last performance so she did it.[

And therefore all but signalled the end of the Supremes as we knew them.

Yeah just long enough for Mary Wilson to recruit that beautiful, luscious powerhouse singer Scherrie Payne,as well as bring back the great Cindy Birdsong and together they sang:

[marv2]

Let me educate you Bluerock. When Florence Ballard was fired from the Supremes some said that it was the "end of the Supremes" as we knew them. When Diana Ross departed, for some that was the end of the Supremes. Some thought that the group was not the same when Cindy Birdsong left the first time. When Jean Terrell and Lynda Lawrence left, the Supremes were down to one Mary Wilson until she hired Scherrie Payne and brought back Cindy Birdsong. When Cindy left the second, they were never the same again either until Susaye Greene joined and they blew the roof off the sucka! Hi Susaye! LOL!

[jim aka jtigre99]

Mary wrote about this in Supreme Faith. Nothing new, by this time Jean & Mary were not speaking with each other. Jean & Lynda had been wanting to leave Motown and tried to convince Mary to do so. At the show, Mary said she had asked what songs they wanted to sing since they had no new single to promote and received blank stares as a response. Jean probably thought she would use her solo as a spotlight because she would be leaving. Funny, she did not record until 5 years later though. Mary probably was sensing that she needed to keep some consistency and that she would be the only one there figured to use Touch to spotlight her own vocals, even if the song was not a hit single. It also offered Lynda a chance to sing lead on a few lines. In ways, it was similar to when Mary, Cindy & Scherrie sang on Sonny & Cher they had no new single to promote so they sang All I Want from their last album with Jean, this time with all three also singing lead lines. It may have looked like Mary was flexing her position in the group but she chose something where all three sang lead and the sharing of the lead lines gave the group a real group feeling.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Mary wrote about this in Supreme Faith. Nothing new, by this time Jean & Mary were not speaking with each other. Jean & Lynda had been wanting to leave Motown and tried to convince Mary to do so. At the show, Mary said she had asked what songs they wanted to sing since they had no new single to promote and received blank stares as a response. Jean probably thought she would use her solo as a spotlight because she would be leaving. Funny, she did not record until 5 years later though. Mary probably was sensing that she needed to keep some consistency and that she would be the only one there figured to use Touch to spotlight her own vocals, even if the song was not a hit single. It also offered Lynda a chance to sing lead on a few lines. In ways, it was similar to when Mary, Cindy & Scherrie sang on Sonny & Cher they had no new single to promote so they sang All I Want from their last album with Jean, this time with all three also singing lead lines. It may have looked like Mary was flexing her position in the group but she chose something where all three sang lead and the sharing of the lead lines gave the group a real group feeling.

I hadn't realized Mary had alienated Jean; she sure had a hard time dealing with lead singers.

[luke]

Jean and Lynda had alienated Mary. And subsequently Jean alienated the Flos. Good for Mary for saving the group. They were the most successful female group of the 7Os, thanks to Mary Wilson who has kept their legacy alive regardless of who came and went

[daviddh]

[QUOTE=Bluebrock;392991]

At the time of this special Mary knew fully well that Jean was leaving and suspected Lynda would be too.

Jean Terrell demanded to do her solo "He Ain't Heavy" for this show. Since there was no new product coming out on the group Mary attempted to renew interest in Touch and Bad Weather. She shot down Jean's demand in a rare act of rebellion [[Mary had been trying to convince Jean to stay) and told both Jean and Lynda in no uncertain terms that these were the two songs they'd do for this show. Jean knew this was her last performance so she did it.[

And therefore all but signalled the end of the Supremes as we knew them.

Bluebrock, wasn't jean under contract for 5 years??? did she violate her contract or was this incorrect info. wonder if Motown had to pay her out of her contract . not sure how that would play out.

[daviddh]

I do think the JML was a good line up.

[marv2]

Jean and Lynda had alienated Mary. And subsequently Jean alienated the Flos. Good for Mary for saving the group. They were the most successful female group of the 7Os, thanks to Mary Wilson who has kept their legacy alive regardless of who came and went

Exactly! The Supremes had the most successful track record of any female group in the 70s and when Mary left the group disbanded.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I do think the JML was a good line up.

They are three talented ladies, that's for sure.

[marv2]

[QUOTE=daviddh;393080]

Bluebrock, wasn't jean under contract for 5 years??? did she violate her contract or was this incorrect info. wonder if Motown had to pay her out of her contract . not sure how that would play out.

Florence Ballard was still under contract when Mr. Gordy fired her. Cindy Birdsong was under contract through 1977 even though she was out of the group for all but a few weeks at the beginning of 1976 and beyond.

[luke]

I wonder who paid Cindy when She went with Mary to finish though already contracted performances in South America after Mary left the group?

[jim aka jtigre99]

I think she was still contracted through Mary's Supremes, inc. so there was probably a set percentage from that contract on what she would receive for performing. Mary said in Supreme Faith that she also contacted Lynda, who asked for far too much money.

[luke]

Oh yea. Thanks

[marv2]

I wonder who paid Cindy when She went with Mary to finish though already contracted performances in South America after Mary left the group?

I am pretty sure she was paid by Mary through "Mary Wilson Supremes, Inc." or some variation of that name.

[marv2]

I think she was still contracted through Mary's Supremes, inc. so there was probably a set percentage from that contract on what she would receive for performing. Mary said in Supreme Faith that she also contacted Lynda, who asked for far too much money.

Yes Jim that's right.

[PeaceNHarmony]

It seems that the group would have done better if Mary had listened to Berry's [[she says) statement 'I wash my hands ...' ) and had started with a new group/label/management somewhere else. Gotta admire her for making a silk purse from a sow's ear for decades, though, and taking any job offered. Many more talented non-lead members of other groups seemingly didn't have Wilson's claws! Good for her.

[marv2]

It seems that the group would have done better if Mary had listened to Berry's [[she says) statement 'I wash my hands ...' ) and had started with a new group/label/management somewhere else. Gotta admire her for making a silk purse from a sow's ear for decades, though, and taking any job offered. Many more talented non-lead members of other groups seemingly didn't have Wilson's claws! Good for her.

Mary is the bomb! However, I would not describe The Supremes, the greatest female group in history as a "sow ear". They were always the best out there in my opinion.

[Bluebrock]

Let me educate you Bluerock. When Florence Ballard was fired from the Supremes some said that it was the "end of the Supremes" as we knew them. When Diana Ross departed, for some that was the end of the Supremes. Some thought that the group was not the same when Cindy Birdsong left the first time. When Jean Terrell and Lynda Lawrence left, the Supremes were down to one Mary Wilson until she hired Scherrie Payne and brought back Cindy Birdsong. When Cindy left the second, they were never the same again either until Susaye Greene joined and they blew the roof off the sucka! Hi Susaye! LOL!

However much you try to gloss over the facts by the time Jean and Lynda left the group the general public had all but fallen out of love with the Supremes. They had just one more moderate hit despite making some great records, and their concerts no longer attracted regular large audiences. Didn't they get booed off stage at Madison? Their act was tired despite the immense talents of Scherrie and Susaye. Those two ladies worked their butts off but the chemistry was all wrong and the public would not accept it. They were finished.

[PeaceNHarmony]

However much you try to gloss over the facts by the time Jean and Lynda left the group the general public had all but fallen out of love with the Supremes. They had just one more moderate hit despite making some great records, and their concerts no longer attracted regular large audiences. Didn't they get booed off stage at Madison? Their act was tired despite the immense talents of Scherrie and Susaye. Those two ladies worked their butts off but the chemistry was all wrong and the public would not accept it. They were finished.

Do you think the last iteration of the group could have had success under another name? As we know the public at large had moved on to other dynamic - and let's face it, younger - groups [[First Choice, The Ritchie Family, Silver Convention etc) and were disinterested in 'The Supremes' who seemed to be 3 different people every time they appeared on TV. 'High Energy' was a terrific LP and I wonder if it could have risen higher on the charts credited to a 'new' group name.

[marv2]

That would have been rather dumb move. The Supremes were World wide famous whereas those other groups you mentioned were still fighting to become that famous. Why would Mary Wilson and Motown want to throw away a household brand name that they all worked hard to build? The Supremes had more Top 40 Hits than any other female group in the 70s.

I think it is just YOUR perception that there was something wrong with them, the Supremes in the 70s. I am asking this only because it will help me understand why you don't remember how great the Supremes were in the 70s and how Motown dropped the ball promoting them. So, how old are you?

[daviddh]

just my opinion, Motown didn't just stop promoting them.
berry offered to manage the group twice and Mary turned him down twice. in her book she wrote something to the effect, I Wont Loose Control again" then he washed his hands of the group.
so to her it was about her being in control apparently. she ran the group into the ground. poor management.
now on the other hand, Motown closed down the Detroit location. as a result, many artists,.. producers left behind. see Standing In The Shadows Of Motown . great documentary! and facts.
the last few years they were booed off stage at Madison Square Garden. a show scherrie and susaye didn't want to do but Mary did and insisted on.
the medleys of hits so fast we thought we were at the Kentucky Derby which was a shame since the ladies talented could rock versions of Someday Well Be Together. the over top broadway non sense just were not the supremes. it was slick vegas shumaltz. the show should have been wrapped around the ladies talents.
the last album had some great vocals....You Are The Heart Of Me...
Sweet Dream Machine.etc
there were good moments and and some bad. we are were hoping the ladies would come back. we wanted them to. I'm Gonna Let My Heart.....was a tremendous return to form.
I don't think it fair to blame Motown exactly even though that si what happened. for me its 50 percent Motown and 50 percent Mary Wilson.

[marv2]

just my opinion, Motown didn't just stop promoting them.
berry offered to manage the group twice and Mary turned him down twice. in her book she wrote something to the effect, I Wont Loose Control again" then he washed his hands of the group.
so to her it was about her being in control apparently. she ran the group into the ground. poor management.
now on the other hand, Motown closed down the Detroit location. as a result, many artists,.. producers left behind. see Standing In The Shadows Of Motown . great documentary! and facts.
the last few years they were booed off stage at Madison Square Garden. a show scherrie and susaye didn't want to do but Mary did and insisted on.
the medleys of hits so fast we thought we were at the Kentucky Derby which was a shame since the ladies talented could rock versions of Someday Well Be Together. the over top broadway non sense just were not the supremes. it was slick vegas shumaltz. the show should have been wrapped around the ladies talents.
the last album had some great vocals....You Are The Heart Of Me...
Sweet Dream Machine.etc
there were good moments and and some bad. we are were hoping the ladies would come back. we wanted them to. I'm Gonna Let My Heart.....was a tremendous return to form.
I don't think it fair to blame Motown exactly even though that si what happened. for me its 50 percent Motown and 50 percent Mary Wilson.

I was around then and Motown DID stop promoting the Supremes. It became more and more difficult to find their records in the stores. Oh I wouldn't even count trade ads place in industry publications like Billboard or Cash Box because those were not generally read by the general public.

Berry offered to manage the group.......HA! LOL!
Berry Gordy also tried to offer Florence Ballard a "solo deal" LOL!!!! What better or easier way to kill off a group than with the first hand approach. When he said "I was my hands of the whole goddamned group" ..........he meant it!

[marv2]

just my opinion, Motown didn't just stop promoting them.
berry offered to manage the group twice and Mary turned him down twice. in her book she wrote something to the effect, I Wont Loose Control again" then he washed his hands of the group.
so to her it was about her being in control apparently. she ran the group into the ground. poor management.
now on the other hand, Motown closed down the Detroit location. as a result, many artists,.. producers left behind. see Standing In The Shadows Of Motown . great documentary! and facts.
the last few years they were booed off stage at Madison Square Garden. a show scherrie and susaye didn't want to do but Mary did and insisted on.
the medleys of hits so fast we thought we were at the Kentucky Derby which was a shame since the ladies talented could rock versions of Someday Well Be Together. the over top broadway non sense just were not the supremes. it was slick vegas shumaltz. the show should have been wrapped around the ladies talents.
the last album had some great vocals....You Are The Heart Of Me...
Sweet Dream Machine.etc
there were good moments and and some bad. we are were hoping the ladies would come back. we wanted them to. I'm Gonna Let My Heart.....was a tremendous return to form.
I don't think it fair to blame Motown exactly even though that si what happened. for me its 50 percent Motown and 50 percent Mary Wilson.

Your comment about the Richard Nader's Oldies Show at MSG in March 1977 is wrong! None of them were sure if they wanted to do that show or not so they asked us, the fans at the time. They ended doing it for the money and exposure. It did not work which further made Mr. Ferrer determined to have Mary go solo! The group was not split over whether or not they should have done that particular show.

[PeaceNHarmony]

just my opinion, Motown didn't just stop promoting them.
berry offered to manage the group twice and Mary turned him down twice. in her book she wrote something to the effect, I Wont Loose Control again" then he washed his hands of the group.
so to her it was about her being in control apparently. she ran the group into the ground. poor management.
now on the other hand, Motown closed down the Detroit location. as a result, many artists,.. producers left behind. see Standing In The Shadows Of Motown . great documentary! and facts.
the last few years they were booed off stage at Madison Square Garden. a show scherrie and susaye didn't want to do but Mary did and insisted on.
the medleys of hits so fast we thought we were at the Kentucky Derby which was a shame since the ladies talented could rock versions of Someday Well Be Together. the over top broadway non sense just were not the supremes. it was slick vegas shumaltz. the show should have been wrapped around the ladies talents.
the last album had some great vocals....You Are The Heart Of Me...
Sweet Dream Machine.etc
there were good moments and and some bad. we are were hoping the ladies would come back. we wanted them to. I'm Gonna Let My Heart.....was a tremendous return to form.
I don't think it fair to blame Motown exactly even though that si what happened. for me its 50 percent Motown and 50 percent Mary Wilson.

50/50 seems a fair assessment. I never bought the 'no label support'; it's the last refuge of anyone who had a bomb. Not to mention that the group seemed to be on TV all the time.

[luke]

As a number of authors have said how would it look if Berrys pearl was overshadowed by her former group...just a thought!

[marv2]

As a number of authors have said how would it look if Berrys pearl was overshadowed by her former group...just a thought!

For a while they did over shadow her. I believe that's when Motown began to slowly pull their support from the Supremes. Some people were just not old enough or even born when all things were going on so they don't know and don't understand what happened. It is up to us Luke, us "oid timers" to teach the young un's LOL!!!!

[luke]

lol exactly. I think that's part of reason why New Ways album didn't succeed. They were off to too fast a start!

[marv2]

lol exactly. I think that's part of reason why New Ways album didn't succeed. They were off to too fast a start!

The Supremes were burning it up back then after a sluggish late 60s period.

[Bluebrock]

I hadn't realized Mary had alienated Jean; she sure had a hard time dealing with lead singers.

She also had a hard time dealing with other members. There is one name that sticks out like a sore thumb when it comes to the in house feuding in every Supremes line up.

[Bluebrock]

Do you think the last iteration of the group could have had success under another name? As we know the public at large had moved on to other dynamic - and let's face it, younger - groups [[First Choice, The Ritchie Family, Silver Convention etc) and were disinterested in 'The Supremes' who seemed to be 3 different people every time they appeared on TV. 'High Energy' was a terrific LP and I wonder if it could have risen higher on the charts credited to a 'new' group name.

It is quite possible. The ladies still had much to offer but the public were no longer interested.

[Bluebrock]

The Supremes were burning it up back then after a sluggish late 60s period.

They were indeed, but too much product in too short a time, and some poor choices as singles did not help their cause.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=daviddh;393225]just my opinion, Motown didn't just stop promoting them.
berry offered to manage the group twice and Mary turned him down twice. in her book she wrote something to the effect, I Wont Loose Control again" then he washed his hands of the group.
so to her it was about her being in control apparently. she ran the group into the ground. poor management.
now on the other hand, Motown closed down the Detroit location. as a result, many artists,.. producers left behind. see Standing In The Shadows Of Motown . great documentary! and facts.
the last few years they were booed off stage at Madison Square Garden. a show scherrie and susaye didn't want to do but Mary did and insisted on.
the medleys of hits so fast we thought we were at the Kentucky Derby which was a shame since the ladies talented could rock versions of Someday Well Be Together. the over top broadway non sense just were not the supremes. it was slick vegas shumaltz. the show should have been wrapped around the ladies talents.
the last album had some great vocals....You Are The Heart Of Me...
Sweet Dream Machine.etc
there were good moments and and some bad. we are were hoping the ladies would come back. we wanted them to. I'm Gonna Let My Heart.....was a tremendous return to form.
I don't think it fair to blame Motown exactly even though that si what happened. for me its 50 percent Motown and 50 percent Mary Wilson.[/QUOTE
Some good points there. Mary seemed to think she was more important than she really was. Had she been as valuable as she seemed to think she was Berry would have promoted her to lead singer when Diana left, but we all knew she was not good enough to take on that responsibility at that time. As sales began to slide Berry probably thought she and the group were more trouble than they were worth. I think your 50/50 assessment is spot on.

[PeaceNHarmony]

She also had a hard time dealing with other members. There is one name that sticks out like a sore thumb when it comes to the in house feuding in every Supremes line up.

Interesting; I didn't follow the revolving-door members after Jean left [[though I did like some of the records). This could answer my question about why Mary does not tour with-and-as 'The Supremes', ie: the other ladies simply get along better without her.

[Bluebrock]

Interesting; I didn't follow the revolving-door members after Jean left [[though I did like some of the records). This could answer my question about why Mary does not tour with-and-as 'The Supremes', ie: the other ladies simply get along better without her.

Yes they do. Whatever certain people on here claim Mary is not well regarded or respected by several former Supremes.

[detmotownguy]

Yes they do. Whatever certain people on here claim Mary is not well regarded or respected by several former Supremes.

Well we know that Scherrie and Cindy get along. I heard Susaye compliment Mary during an recent interview. So that would leave Diane Lynda and Jean.

[marv2]

Well we know that Scherrie and Cindy get along. I heard Susaye compliment Mary during an recent interview. So that would leave Diane Lynda and Jean.

There are no problems with Jean either.

[luke]

Susaye asked fans to encourage Mary to do at least a brief reunion with the 70s Suoremes a couple of years ago. Scherrie and Mary are in touch with each other and Jean and all of the ladies except Lynda came to Mary's talk last year per Rock and Roll hall of fame i think it was ,in LA

[Roberta75]

Well we know that Scherrie and Cindy get along. I heard Susaye compliment Mary during an recent interview. So that would leave Diane Lynda and Jean.

Mary always says she loves Diane she always refer to Diane as her sister.

[detmotownguy]

Susaye asked fans to encourage Mary to do at least a brief reunion with the 70s Suoremes a couple of years ago. Scherrie and Mary are in touch with each other and Jean and all of the ladies except Lynda came to Mary's talk last year per Rock and Roll hall of fame i think it was ,in LA

So how do we get several Supremes who don't respect or hold Mary in high regard?