Most Underrated Motown Groups

[TomatoTom123]

This is a discussion I thought would be quite interesting: simply, who are, in your opinion, the most underrated of the Motown groups?

Now, Motown sure had a lot of talent and a lot of groups [[particularly in its heyday) but who were the ones that you thought never got the success they deserved?

[TomatoTom123]

For me, a few came to mind instantly!

In Motown's classic 1960s period:
The Monitors
The Velvelettes

For 1970s Motown:
The Originals
The Undisputed Truth

How 'bout you?

[jsmith]

Monitors
Originals
Elgins

MOST OVERRATED
Supremes

[Motown Eddie]

For me, it's The Spinners. Too bad they only had one major hit during their time at Motown with "It's A Shame" [[and two of the best Hitsville era songs with "I'll Always Love You" & "Truly Yours"). Agree with the other posters about The Velvelettes & The Originals being underrated at Motown.

[McMotown]

I like this thread Tom .
For me it has to be Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers [[and his solo stuff), but I agree with all the above too. Oh and Edwin Starr. I could quite easily go on with more.

[bradsupremes]

Most underrated:
The Spinners
The Velvelettes
Kim Weston

[Bluebrock]

I have to go for the Originals, Tata Vega, Bobby Taylor and the Spinners.

[jobucats]

The Velvelettes and Kim Weston

[arr&bee]

for me, it's the spinners. too bad they only had one major hit during their time at motown with "it's a shame" [[and two of the best hitsville era songs with "i'll always love you" & "truly yours"). Agree with the other posters about the velvelettes & the originals being underrated at motown.

thank you motown eddie,for me it's the spinners who were shown little love so they went to atlantic and were shown a lot.

[TomatoTom123]

Monitors
Originals
Elgins

MOST OVERRATED
Supremes

Ah, yes, I always forget about The Elgins! A fantastic group who recorded the classic and a personal fave of mine "Heaven Must Have Sent You". Thanks jsmith for reminding me!!!

Yea, I understand how you feel about The Supremes. They were an amazing group but can never be considered the be all and end all of Motown.

[TomatoTom123]

For me, it's The Spinners. Too bad they only had one major hit during their time at Motown with "It's A Shame" [[and two of the best Hitsville era songs with "I'll Always Love You" & "Truly Yours"). Agree with the other posters about The Velvelettes & The Originals being underrated at Motown.

Oh, yes, The Spinners as well! They were reduced to but one album and a handful of singles in the '60s. A great shame.

[TomatoTom123]

I like this thread Tom .
For me it has to be Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers [[and his solo stuff), but I agree with all the above too. Oh and Edwin Starr. I could quite easily go on with more.

Hey, thanks, Paul!!! I like a good positive thread!

And, yes, The Vancouvers were also a great group. Oh, yes, Edwin Starr!!!

I should say that the 'most underrated groups' can of course extend to include solo acts, duos, etc!

[TomatoTom123]

Most underrated:
The Spinners
The Velvelettes
Kim Weston

Excellent choices, brad

[TomatoTom123]

I have to go for the Originals, Tata Vega, Bobby Taylor and the Spinners.

Oh, yes, of course, Tata Vega!! What a fabulous singer she is. Thanks for your response Bluebrock

[McMotown]

I think the Isley Brothers didn't get a fair deal.

[marv2]

Switch
Mandre
High Inergy

[Ngroove]

G C Cameron - C'mon, he's supposed to have "Six Voices"!

Johnny Bristol


Disagree with Edwin Starr. If anything, while at the cost of his soul-shoutings like he did "Agent Double-O-Soul" and "SOS [[Stop Her On Sight)", I presume Motown gave him some mass mainstream pop exposure, otherwise I'm sure his name would only be feintly mentioned on the underground Northern Soul scene.


Motown's underutilizations / underpromotions of great names:

Sammy Davis Jr - Maybe it was that noboby was buying MOR, but this was Sammy Davis Jr - probably THE biggest pre-established name Motown ever acquired, we are talking "In League with Frank Sinatra" name. So, nobody picked up Billy Eckstine, Barbara McNair, or Connie Haines? Motown shoulda tried harder with Sammy!

Chuck Jackson
Jerry Butler
Wilson Pickett

[marv2]

G C Cameron - C'mon, he's supposed to have "Six Voices"!

Johnny Bristol

Disagree with Edwin Starr. If anything, while at the cost of his soul-shoutings like he did "Agent Double-O-Soul" and "SOS [[Stop Her On Sight)", I presume Motown gave him some mass mainstream pop exposure, otherwise I'm sure his name would only be feintly mentioned on the underground Northern Soul scene.


Motown's underutilizations or underpromotions of great names:

Sammy Davis Jr - Maybe it was that noboby was buying MOR, but this was Sammy Davis Jr - probably the biggest pre-established name Motown ever acquired, we are talking "In League with Frank Sinatra" name. So, nobody picked up Billy Eckstine, Barbara McNair, or Connie Haines? Motown shoulda tried harder with Sammy!

Chuck Jackson
Jerry Butler
Wilson Pickett

I really thought he meant groups when he said groups, but ok. Then, Carolyn Crawford, Eddie Holland [[as a singer) and Richard Street of the Temptations were underrated in my opinion.

[Ozmo]

The Velvelettes - They didn't even get an album release!

[marv2]

The Velvelettes - They didn't even get an album release!

Oh they definitely should have at least got an album released when considering some of the folks that did have albums issued.

[Bluebrock]

I think the Isley Brothers didn't get a fair deal.

Perhaps they didn't, but they more than made up for it later, and their Motown work is revered, especially here in the UK.

[Bluebrock]

Oh, yes, of course, Tata Vega!! What a fabulous singer she is. Thanks for your response Bluebrock

One of the very best i have ever heard. On stage she is quite possibly the finest female vocalist i have ever seen. Her range is astonishing. A touch of Patti and Melba Moore, but a style all of her own.

[heikki]

I'd like to add the Fantastic Four.

[motownjohnny]

Oh, yes, The Spinners as well! They were reduced to but one album and a handful of singles in the '60s. A great shame.

TomatoTom, I think you'll find The Spinners had two albums issued during their Motown tenure, rather than just the one as you suggest.

On top of those albums , they had 14 singles released - five recorded at "Hitsville", and issued on Tri-Phi; five released on Motown and four on V.I.P. In addition to those, there is also a Harvey single where they are also credited as supporting vocalists on the "B" side.

Now, to me that's a pretty significant output, certainly when compared to many of the other groups mentioned already in this thread. Also, don't forget before the arrival of The Originals in the mid-60's, The Spinners did a lot of background vocal work for other acts in addition to other admin duties around Motown!

To me the "great shame', as you put it, clearly isn't The Spinners lack of output, it's that Motown simply had too many artists and left many of them to fend for themselves and never gave them the push they needed and deserved. The Spinners are sadly in that neglected category.

Fortunately for The Spinners, with their move to Atlantic, all was not lost, as that company did appreciate them and afforded them the support their talent deserved and required.

[heikki]

Hi!

Prior to Motown the Spinners indeed had seven singles released on Tri-Phi and one on Harvey, where their vocals are on.

Best regards
Heikki

[honest man]

Yvonne Fair

[Jaap]

Although I understand the sentiment, I don't think The Supremes are overrated--I don't think any Motown artist/group is overrated, actually. When you look at the general perception of pop music history, I think the Supremes, as well as many other Motown acts, are underrated. The only one that really is getting his due in general view--and rightfully so--is Stevie Wonder, and perhaps Marvin Gaye to a bit lesser extent. Too often Motown is still dismissed as too commercial based on its "factory" way of producing, a criticism that has a history in its being a black-owned business. So yes, let's celebrate and give recognition to those great Motown artists that are less known and visible, but not at the expense of other Motown groups.

[TomatoTom123]

TomatoTom, I think you'll find The Spinners had two albums issued during their Motown tenure, rather than just the one as you suggest.

On top of those albums , they had 14 singles released - five recorded at "Hitsville", and issued on Tri-Phi; five released on Motown and four on V.I.P. In addition to those, there is also a Harvey single where they are also credited as supporting vocalists on the "B" side.

Now, to me that's a pretty significant output, certainly when compared to many of the other groups mentioned already in this thread. Also, don't forget before the arrival of The Originals in the mid-60's, The Spinners did a lot of background vocal work for other acts in addition to other admin duties around Motown!

To me the "great shame', as you put it, clearly isn't The Spinners lack of output, it's that Motown simply had too many artists and left many of them to fend for themselves and never gave them the push they needed and deserved. The Spinners are sadly in that neglected category.

Fortunately for The Spinners, with their move to Atlantic, all was not lost, as that company did appreciate them and afforded them the support their talent deserved and required.

Hey johnny, you are right again! It is just me being lazy with words and research!!! I did mean they only had one album in the 1960s [[The Original Spinners I believe) and 'handful' was really just a guess [[I should have looked it up on 45cat!) but thank you for correcting me.

I kinda thought they did have a lack of output when compared to The Tempts and The Tops, but of course, they were Motown's top acts. I guess two albums and nine singles is pretty good by Motown standards [[just look at the amazing underrated Velvelettes)...! You're right, though, it was likely that Motown didn't push them that they didn't have the success they served! Luckily they did find it at Atlantic.

[TomatoTom123]

Switch
Mandre
High Inergy

Great choices Marv. Mandre was ahead of his time!

[TomatoTom123]

G C Cameron - C'mon, he's supposed to have "Six Voices"!

Johnny Bristol


Disagree with Edwin Starr. If anything, while at the cost of his soul-shoutings like he did "Agent Double-O-Soul" and "SOS [[Stop Her On Sight)", I presume Motown gave him some mass mainstream pop exposure, otherwise I'm sure his name would only be feintly mentioned on the underground Northern Soul scene.


Motown's underutilizations / underpromotions of great names:

Sammy Davis Jr - Maybe it was that noboby was buying MOR, but this was Sammy Davis Jr - probably THE biggest pre-established name Motown ever acquired, we are talking "In League with Frank Sinatra" name. So, nobody picked up Billy Eckstine, Barbara McNair, or Connie Haines? Motown shoulda tried harder with Sammy!

Chuck Jackson
Jerry Butler
Wilson Pickett

YES! G.C. Cameron, oh, my, what a singer! He did have quite a good recording career on Motown in the 1970s but didn't achieve much commercial success.

Johnny Bristol I also agree with! It was a shame he didn't get to do much singing at Motown.

But I love Edwin Starr! Here in the UK he is pretty well known. "Stop Her On Sight", "War", "Contact" and "HAPPY Radio" were all big hits. He was also talented songwriter and producer and I think it would have been interesting if Motown had left him self-produce.

Chuck Jackson should definitely have had more success at Motown. A top class act. Also I agree with Jerry Butler, who had three wonderful solo albums out in the mid 70s which did almost nothing. Wilson Pickett, I believe, signed with Motown in 1987, by which time both Motown and Wilson's career were coming to an end. I believe he had one album released, on which the production is very '80s, but he was still in excellent voice!

[TomatoTom123]

One of the very best i have ever heard. On stage she is quite possibly the finest female vocalist i have ever seen. Her range is astonishing. A touch of Patti and Melba Moore, but a style all of her own.

How wonderful, Bluebrock. She is indeed a fantastic and versatile singer!!

[TomatoTom123]

I'd like to add the Fantastic Four.

Great addition, heikki. Not sure what Motown were doing with such a wonderful group. [[Why did they cancel their sole Motown album?!!) They just embodied 'sweet soul'...!

[TomatoTom123]

Yvonne Fair

Excellent choice, honest man. What a fierce and ferocious singer she was! Not sure what Motown were doing with her between 1971 and 1974! Hopefully a lot of recording

[motownjohnny]

Jaap, interesting comments, but I'm not sure that your last sentence:

"So yes, let's celebrate and give recognition to those great Motown artists that are less known and visible, but not at the expense of other Motown groups", is truly without question.

For me the irony of what you state, is that many of the artists mentioned by others in this thread were less visible and suffered a lack of recognition and exposure mainly as a result of the company's concentration of resources on The Supremes. So the result of that concentration was indeed "at the expense of other Motown groups".

It has to be remembered that while they achieved much success, The Supremes only did so when Motown focused much of their resources on them. Up until that happened, they had been the "no hit" The Supremes, and the two girl groups at Motown, who had been very successful prior to that change of focus - The Marvelettes and Martha and The Vandellas did indeed suffer very badly as a consequence.

[motownjohnny]

In respect of Yvonne Fair, surely the early part of that period was taken up with work on her role in "Lady Sings The Blues" released in October '72.

In addition to that, she had two singles released in 1974 in May and September respectively and in 1975 her album "The Bitch Is Black" was released. So that's what Motown were doing with her between '71 and '74!

[TomatoTom123]

In respect of Yvonne Fair, surely the early part of that period was taken up with work on her role in "Lady Sings The Blues" released in October '72.

In addition to that, she had two singles released in 1974 in May and September respectively and in 1975 her album "The Bitch Is Black" was released. So that's what Motown were doing with her between '71 and '74!

Hey, johnny, you're probably right yet again!! But I was thinking more recording-wise... surely she was in the recording studio at that time? I hope so. Also, I believe she only had a small role in Lady Sings The Blues, as a singer called, um, Yvonne, so that can't have been all she was doing at the time?

[motownjohnny]

Ok Tom - I obviously didn't make it clear so apologies for that!

"Lady Sings The Blues" took a year in the making, so while you correctly say she had a small part in it, that in reality probably took months out of her life during which time she would have had to put her own fledgling recording career at Motown on hold, and anyway I very much doubt if B.G. would have wanted or indeed allowed her to pursue her own singing career during that film production period.

Yvonne was married to Sammy Strain from The O Jays, and was already a mother of two young children, so I suspect she was kept pretty busy on maternal duties!

The "Bitch Is Black" her only Motown album, was released in '75 so many of the tracks on it were recorded during '73 and '74 after she had finished promotion work and film related engagements and when song material and Norman Whitfield, who produced a number of tracks on her were available.

It's true to say her stay at Motown didn't produce a lot of released material, but I suspect there's quite a few tracks recorded during the time the album was being planned that are still to be released. The trouble is Tom that she mainly recorded during the mid 70's, and sadly few companies today currently seem keen to release material from that period.

[Motown Eddie]

Two more artists I'd like to add;

Brenda Holloway: she only had two major hits during her years at Motown with "Every Little Bit Hurts" & "When I'm Gone" and those weren't even in the top ten pop hits [according to Billboard].

Syreeta: I still think she should've had great success with her first two albums, Syreeta & Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta.

[marv2]

Great choices Marv. Mandre was ahead of his time!

Thanks Tom.

[TomatoTom123]

Ok Tom - I obviously didn't make it clear so apologies for that!

"Lady Sings The Blues" took a year in the making, so while you correctly say she had a small part in it, that in reality probably took months out of her life during which time she would have had to put her own fledgling recording career at Motown on hold, and anyway I very much doubt if B.G. would have wanted or indeed allowed her to pursue her own singing career during that film production period.

Yvonne was married to Sammy Strain from The O Jays, and was already a mother of two young children, so I suspect she was kept pretty busy on maternal duties!

The "Bitch Is Black" her only Motown album, was released in '75 so many of the tracks on it were recorded during '73 and '74 after she had finished promotion work and film related engagements and when song material and Norman Whitfield, who produced a number of tracks on her were available.

It's true to say her stay at Motown didn't produce a lot of released material, but I suspect there's quite a few tracks recorded during the time the album was being planned that are still to be released. The trouble is Tom that she mainly recorded during the mid 70's, and sadly few companies today currently seem keen to release material from that period.

Thanks a lot for explaining, johnny. I knew of her role in LSTB and of her marriage and children but didn't really consider how it would affect her recording career!

Yea, I would like to think there are a subustantial number of unreleased tracks, it's just that, as you say, record companies are reluctant to release them. Do you think there are any tracks recorded after the release of The Bitch Is Black; did she leave Motown straight away or after a year or two? I have never known!

[McMotown]

Love the Yvonne Fair album she knocks Glady's for six on 'It Should Have Been Me' . Can I add Bloodstone to the list.

[Ngroove]

But I love Edwin Starr! Here in the UK he is pretty well known. "Stop Her On Sight", "War", "Contact" and "HAPPY Radio" were all big hits. He was also talented songwriter and producer and I think it would have been interesting if Motown had left him self-produce.

I love Edwin Starr too - particularly his "Soul Master" album with his Ric-Tics.

Just saying, Edwin Starr was bigger than should be part of this list. While Ric-Tic had him a decent enough soul singer, probably would still get his name somewhat as a mid-charter R&B and a Northern Soul legend, it was Motown that opened him and his name up to pop music, popular culture, and mainstream public masses.

My favorite song of his is "Headline News", but think of it this way - if Motown did not smoothened his sound, added the Andantes and Funk Brothers treatment with "Twenty Five Miles", then with the Top Ten Pop momentum of "Twenty Five Miles", came "War", Number One Pop, then all his other hits that followed, beginning with follow-up "Stop The War Now", owing "War" as they rode the momentum of that - not even "Agent Double-O-Soul" would be remembered timelessly, even over five decades later, more likely just be available as a remembered only by some 1965 45 rpm, than greatest hits compiled several times, and Edwin himself would probably not perform and tour as much as he did, up to the time of his death, let alone be even mentioned at least as another successful part of the Motown cannon in popular music history books, or even some of his songs showing up on soundtracks - if it wasn't for "Twenty Five Miles" and "War".

[honest man]

Ok Tom - I obviously didn't make it clear so apologies for that!

"Lady Sings The Blues" took a year in the making, so while you correctly say she had a small part in it, that in reality probably took months out of her life during which time she would have had to put her own fledgling recording career at Motown on hold, and anyway I very much doubt if B.G. would have wanted or indeed allowed her to pursue her own singing career during that film production period.

Yvonne was married to Sammy Strain from The O Jays, and was already a mother of two young children, so I suspect she was kept pretty busy on maternal duties!

The "Bitch Is Black" her only Motown album, was released in '75 so many of the tracks on it were recorded during '73 and '74 after she had finished promotion work and film related engagements and when song material and Norman Whitfield, who produced a number of tracks on her were available.

It's true to say her stay at Motown didn't produce a lot of released material, but I suspect there's quite a few tracks recorded during the time the album was being planned that are still to be released. The trouble is Tom that she mainly recorded during the mid 70's, and sadly few companies today currently seem keen to release material from that period.

Hmm seem to remember some of the songs sounded older on the album,do you know which were earlier songs were recorded my fave from album Walk out the door. love it especially soul train appearance with Sammy on YT. It's bad for me .would love an expanded with lost and found ON Yvonne she was a belter,cheers.

[honest man]

Love the Yvonne Fair album she knocks Glady's for six on 'It Should Have Been Me' . Can I add Bloodstone to the list.

Yes Yvonne's version a classic,also like Kim Weston's
early version with DRATS Backing then Gladys in 3 rd place.

[robb_k]

The Velvelettes and Kim Weston

How can Kim Weston be a "group"???? Did she have multiple personalities???

Or did you mean Kim Weston and The Andantes, Kim Weston and The Love Tones, or Kim Weston and The Temptations?

[robb_k]

I would say that The Velvelettes. Spinners and Monitors were equally [[at the top of being) underrated.

The Originals were underrated, but got more fame [[so, they were less underrated). The Elgins and Satintones also didn't get their due.

[tjl]

Okay...I'll vote for Frances Nero, "Keep On Loving Me"...tender words only with a feeling! Velvelettes, Spinners, Originals, Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston and Ron & Bill

[TomatoTom123]

I love Edwin Starr too - particularly his "Soul Master" album with his Ric-Tics.

Just saying, Edwin Starr was bigger than should be part of this list. While Ric-Tic had him a decent enough soul singer, probably would still get his name somewhat as a mid-charter R&B and a Northern Soul legend, it was Motown that opened him and his name up to pop music, popular culture, and mainstream public masses.

My favorite song of his is "Headline News", but think of it this way - if Motown did not smoothened his sound, added the Andantes and Funk Brothers treatment with "Twenty Five Miles", then with the Top Ten Pop momentum of "Twenty Five Miles", came "War", Number One Pop, then all his other hits that followed, beginning with follow-up "Stop The War Now", owing "War" as they rode the momentum of that - not even "Agent Double-O-Soul" would be remembered timelessly, even over five decades later, more likely just be available as a remembered only by some 1965 45 rpm, than greatest hits compiled several times, and Edwin himself would probably not perform and tour as much as he did, up to the time of his death, let alone be even mentioned at least as another successful part of the Motown cannon in popular music history books, or even some of his songs showing up on soundtracks - if it wasn't for "Twenty Five Miles" and "War".

Fair points, Ngroove. I would like to think that Edwin was talented enough to make it for himself and it wasn't all due to Motown that he had success, but you could be right. But he did make some success for himself with "Contact" and "HAPPY Radio" without Motown. Hmm!

[TomatoTom123]

How can Kim Weston be a "group"???? Did she have multiple personalities???

LOL

Hey, Robb, its probably my fault... I should have made the thread about Motown 'acts' in general...!

[TomatoTom123]

Two more artists I'd like to add;

Brenda Holloway: she only had two major hits during her years at Motown with "Every Little Bit Hurts" & "When I'm Gone" and those weren't even in the top ten pop hits [according to Billboard].

Syreeta: I still think she should've had great success with her first two albums, Syreeta & Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta.

Great additions, Eddie.