Nothing But Heartaches!

MissLish · 01-18-2011, 01:47 AM

Thanks to Ian Phillips books I am revisiting all of the Supremes albums in consecutive order. Right now, I am listening to Nothing But Heartaches from More Hits. Although, this one ended their number one streak, I have always enjoyed it. Miss Ross's lead is pure perfection, but the sound that is thrilling my ears today are Mary's and Flo's BGs. Sheer perfection!! Please tell me this is not the Andantes!! I got Mother Dear going now. The Supreme's call and response on these tunes are impeccable! By the time they recorded More Hits, their sound was patented and trademarked. Classic! Go girls!!

**theboyfromxtown** · 01-18-2011, 04:04 AM

Miss Lish

If "Nothing but Heartaches" got to number 11, how can it be that it ended their number one streak.

Miss Ketty insists it got to number one twice.

**randy_russi** · 01-18-2011, 07:57 AM

Nothing But Heartaches did not top the Billboard charts, but the five previous records certainly did. As far as I can hear
it IS Florence and Mary on backup vocals. Mother Dear was almost issued as a single from this lp as they performed it
twice on TV--Red Skelton Show and Dean Martin.

**Koach** · 01-18-2011, 09:08 AM

I think Nothing But Heartaches is very underrated.

**stephanie** · 01-18-2011, 11:10 AM

This one is my mothers favorite Supremes song. I dont think Nothing but Heartaches was not a number one single it just broke the streak I think the public had enough of the Supremes and liked the song but it just didnt hit hard. Plus the sound was a bit different its much better than some of their other ones. Its not simplistic like Baby Love or Come see About Me but its great! Probably one of their best pumped up on a loud speaker.

**luke** · 01-18-2011, 11:58 AM

The public couldnt get enough of the Supremes-hence their number ones that followed. NBH simply-IMO-wasnt of the same caliber. It seemed rushed and didnt convey the sadness of the lyrics. It's sung like the Happening! The public is more aware than given credit for!

**captainjames** · 01-18-2011, 12:19 PM

Amazing isn't it but I always thought "Run Run Run" should have been their first number one single. It was hard beating, the vocals were in your face and the background was ever so strong. I still love it to this day. NBH was good to me and in my opinion was a good song and went to Number 6 on the R & B charts but only 11 on Billboard.

**jobeterob** · 01-18-2011, 12:19 PM

After a certain level of popularity for a period of time, the public grows tired of it - it happened with Diana in the 1980's and it certainly happened with Whitney Houston and Madonna; it only happens to the biggest stars. It happened to the Supremes in the late 60's and it happened briefly around Nothing But Heartaches. Nothing But Heartaches is a much better song than Baby Love and has stood the test of time much better. But Baby Love is one of the songs that opened Motown up to America and the world and like Where Did Our Love Go, it defined a sound. Nothing But Heartaches is more complex and also one of the songs where Diana and Flo pretty much duet in a fashion; similar to Come See About Me and Manhattan and You Keep Me Hanging On.

If old Jimmy Ruffin weren't interfering, The Supremes would take over the entire Top 10 of the Motown Forum on SD ~ and continue driving all the other guys away sadly.

**randy_russi** · 01-18-2011, 02:49 PM

Well, they came back strong with I Hear A Symphony hitting #1. You Can't Hurry Love, You Keep Me Hangin' On and The
Happening all hit #1 too. Nothing But Heartaches was perhaps too familiar sounding and not enough of a change or it
didn't have the sing-a-long hook that the #1 hits had. Just a consideration

**stephanie** · 01-18-2011, 03:04 PM

Nothing but Heartaches reminds me of one of those Spector failures it was really good but the public bought it but not the massive hit it should have been. Jobete you explained the stopping of runs of number one hits better than I could. In response to Luke I didnt mean the public was tired of the Supremes although that is what I said. Captain we are in the minority I always though Run, Run should have been a much bigger hit not number one but top ten maybe it was a bit too ragtime for some.

**rovereab** · 01-18-2011, 03:10 PM

Whilst I normally prefer the mono 45 mixes I think NBH sounds a bit thin and perhaps a more dynamic mix might have helped its success.

**nomis** · 01-18-2011, 03:53 PM

Its a great single Diana rips into the lyrics with passion..I was underwhelmed with the Performance on Hullabaloo not the best Supremes TV performance..they also flew to London and performed it on 'Top Of The Pops" but sadly the stupid BBC wiped the master video tape of that episode and it no loger exists

**randy_russi** · 01-18-2011, 04:35 PM

Run,Run,Run could've been a big hit I also agree had it received the airplay needed to get a hit. I loved the B side too,
I'm Giving You Your Freedom.

**sophisticated_soul** · 01-18-2011, 05:09 PM

My little 14 year old heart was crushed when "Nothing But Heartaches" failed to be the girls 6th No. 1 in a row. lol. I wanted my girls to go on forever! From then to now I've loved the song. I think it is one of their best and it has aged very well. I loved their performance of the song on Hulabaloo. I think timing and overkill kept it from being a bigger hit. Nothing last forever. . .swept away, swept away.

**theboyfromxtown** · 01-18-2011, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by nomis

Its a great single Diana rips into the lyrics with passion..I was underwhelmed with the Performance on Hullabaloo not the best Supremes TV performance..they also flew to London and performed it on 'Top Of The Pops" but sadly the stupid BBC wiped the master video tape of that episode and it no loger exists

REALLY.....wow so that must be where I saw it. I swore I saw them do it...but I couldn't remember where. You wil l notice tomorrow that I am following you all over this place tonight!

**theboyfromxtown** · 01-18-2011, 06:02 PM

Oh no....no NO. I have never got into this one. And yet I love Spector

The UK even missed out on a 45 for this one.

**theboyfromxtown** · 01-18-2011, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

After a certain level of popularity for a period of time, the public grows tired of it - it happened with Diana in the 1980's and it certainly happened with Whitney Houston and Madonna; it only happens to the biggest stars. It happened to the Supremes in the late 60's and it happened briefly around Nothing But Heartaches. Nothing But Heartaches is a much better song than Baby Love and has stood the test of time much better. But Baby Love is one of the songs that opened Motown up to America and the world and like Where Did Our Love Go, it defined a sound. Nothing But Heartaches is more complex and also one of the songs where Diana and Flo pretty much duet in a fashion; similar to Come See About Me and Manhattan and You Keep Me Hanging On.

If old Jimmy Ruffin weren't interfering, The Supremes would take over the entire Top 10 of the Motown Forum on SD ~ and continue driving all the other guys away sadly.

No such luck Rob...especially if I am around!

**144man** · 01-18-2011, 07:17 PM

I started a thread on "Nothing But Heartaches" on the old forum. It must be in the archives somewhere.

**robbert** · 01-18-2011, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by randy_russi

Well, they came back strong with I Hear A Symphony hitting #1. You Can't Hurry Love, You Keep Me Hangin' On and The
Happening all hit #1 too. Nothing But Heartaches was perhaps too familiar sounding and not enough of a change or it
didn't have the sing-a-long hook that the #1 hits had. Just a consideration

Randy, don't forget Love Is Here And Now You're Gone. If I remember well, it went to #1 on Billboard or Cashbox Pop, not both.

**nabob** · 01-18-2011, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by randy_russi

Run,Run,Run could've been a big hit I also agree had it received the airplay needed to get a hit. I loved the B side too,
I'm Giving You Your Freedom.

Randy:

The song is only vaguely remembered from it's short airplay in 1964 New York. It grew on me after buying the WDOLG album. You and I may be the only two on the forum who really like Run, Run, Run. Every time I hear it images of David Rose's The Stripper surge. The song has been badly bashed in the past on the forum. I'm Giving You Your Freedom is one of the best pre-fame recordings by the girls.

**captainjames** · 01-18-2011, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by nabob

Randy:

The song is only vaguely remembered from it's short airplay in 1964 New York. It grew on me after buying the WDOLG album. You and I may be the only two on the forum who really like Run, Run, Run. Every time I hear it images of David Rose's The Stripper surge. The song has been badly bashed in the past on the forum. I'm Giving You Your Freedom is one of the best pre-fame recordings by the girls.

Not so,,,,,,"Run Run Run" was loved by this red bloodied American boy. That song was da bomb. The girls were in rare form and definitely trying hard to get a hit with this one.

**luke** · 01-18-2011, 09:40 PM

My older brother bought both Let Me Go the Right Way and Lovelight but passed on Run, Run Run. I dont bash it I just think it has a weak hook. Trying too hard to be Spectoresque IMO.

smark21 · 01-18-2011, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul

My little 14 year old heart was crushed when "Nothing But Heartaches" failed to be the girls 6th No. 1 in a row. lol. I wanted my girls to go on forever! From then to now I've loved the song. I think it is one of their best and it has aged very well. I loved their performance of the song on Hulabaloo. I think timing and overkill kept it from being a bigger hit. Nothing last forever. . .swept away, swept away.

Do you think the lyrical content of NBH might have contributed to it not hitting the top ten? It was the 6th straight song by the girls about a bad relationship. )True, Back in My Arms Again had a happy ending in the chorus but the verses the relationship had been destroyed by Diana's gossipy, trifling friends Mary and Flo). I Hear A Symphony was a needed change as it was a happy love song and musically it moved the group to the next level.

**nomis** · 01-18-2011, 10:59 PM

John - you could have seen "Nothing" on Top Of The Pops or Ready Steady Go - the girls performed it on both shows- Ready Steady Go video master has also been wiped...damn it !

**nomis** · 01-18-2011, 11:37 PM

There is still in existence photos of the girls backstage at The Top Of The Pops studio and one rehearsal photo on the Ready Steady Go set which i believe is from this apperance

topdiva1 · 01-19-2011, 12:52 AM

Still - NBH was a great song in the wonderful line up of Supreme hits.

**robbert** · 01-19-2011, 09:24 AM

Nuff said?

**theboyfromxtown** · 01-19-2011, 09:30 AM

Robbert

If The Supremes were in the UK at the time, would Holland miss out on their tour? I doubt your Pete would allow it!

**randy_russi** · 01-19-2011, 11:12 AM

I did forget to mention Love Is Here & Now You're Gone as a #1. But in regard to Nothing But Heartaches, a record reaching
#11 on the national chart is a big, hit record. So the song certainly wasn't a failure by any means.

**copley** · 01-19-2011, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by nomis

Its a great single Diana rips into the lyrics with passion..I was underwhelmed with the Performance on Hullabaloo not the best Supremes TV performance..they also flew to London and performed it on 'Top Of The Pops" but sadly the stupid BBC wiped the master video tape of that episode and it no loger exists

I'm surprised to learn that they sung 'Nothing But Heartaches' on TOTP! From 'Stop In The Name Of Love' to 'You Can't Hurry Love' everything bombed so they weren't exactally hot!

Back In My Arms Again - #40
Nothing But Heartaches - didn't chart
I Hear A Symphony - #39
My World Is Empty Without You - didn't chart
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - didn't chart

**jobeterob** · 01-19-2011, 06:31 PM

Some of the very best Supremes songs there........the 3 that didn't chart!

Times changed and a few years later they would chart with far weaker singles.

**bradsupremes** · 01-19-2011, 07:03 PM

I have to wonder if it was the material for the reason why they charted lower on the charts. Looking at such songs like "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign You Are," which both barely charted the top 30, it's understandable why they charted so low as they were horrible selections for singles, especially that dreadful "Composer." However, if you look at "Forever Came Today," which to me was the best single ever released on the group, it didn't do so well. The music and lyrics [[similar to the Four Tops' "I'm In A Different World") was so mature and very deep than previous singles. It was a top-notch track, however it only made it to #28 on the billboard. Was "Forever Came Today" too mature and ahead of its time to be a big hit? Musically, it's far more complex than previous singles. Holland-Dozier-Holland have stated that it was one of the greatest songs they ever wrote.

**nomis** · 01-19-2011, 07:16 PM

..I think Forever is too sophisticated for the pop audience at the time..

MissLish · 01-19-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

I have to wonder if it was the material for the reason why they charted lower on the charts. Looking at such songs like "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign You Are," which both barely charted the top 30, it's understandable why they charted so low as they were horrible selections for singles, especially that dreadful "Composer." However, if you look at "Forever Came Today," which to me was the best single ever released on the group, it didn't do so well. The music and lyrics [[similar to the Four Tops' "I'm In A Different World") was so mature and very deep than previous singles. It was a top-notch track, however it only made it to #28 on the billboard. Was "Forever Came Today" too mature and ahead of its time to be a big hit? Musically, it's far more complex than previous singles. Holland-Dozier-Holland have stated that it was one of the greatest songs they ever wrote.

The public was rebelling against the ousting of Flo.

**nomis** · 01-19-2011, 07:41 PM

Miss lish I always thought that was one of the reasons by Forever folks had realized Flo was gone..

**jobeterob** · 01-19-2011, 07:42 PM

Forever Came Today was complex but it just wasn't a memorable song with a good hook; it sure wasn't as catchy as Where Did Our Love Go, Stop in the Name of Love or You Can't Hurry Love.

Over the years, the complaints I've heard about Forever are that it stopped and started, went and started etc. Also, what the heck does "Forever Came Today" mean? It's a fairly vague concept; you meet someone and they are forever? Did the Lord walk into your life? Did you die and meet your maker?

That being said, many people have suggested Forever Came Today was the most underrated Diana Ross and the Supremes single ever.

To me, a song like You Keep Me Hanging on was complex and it had Diana as agile as she ever was, blowing through that song whereas on Forever, another complex song, you have it going one speed for a few words, then picking up, the slowing down, then pausing etc.

I will also add that if the fans had known at the time that there were no Mary, Cindy, or Florence on those songs, there would have been hell to pay. But it was a totally different era where news moved a lot slower and we were all a lot less informed.

MissLish · 01-19-2011, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by nomis

Miss lish I always thought that was one of the reasons by Forever folks had realized Flo was gone..

I was being facetious; I think the reason you stated is right on the mark. Initially, I didn't like the song either. One of those that had to grown on me, but this is some of the best work ever from HDH.

**nomis** · 01-19-2011, 07:49 PM

lol I was being facetious also...Forever was so different sounding fron their usual singles..it was a bold choice

**marv2** · 01-19-2011, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by copley

I'm surprised to learn that they sung 'Nothing But Heartaches' on TOTP! From 'Stop In The Name Of Love' to 'You Can't Hurry Love' everything bombed so they weren't exactally hot!

Back In My Arms Again - #40
Nothing But Heartaches - didn't chart
I Hear A Symphony - #39
My World Is Empty Without You - didn't chart
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - didn't chart

It's simple. The songs listed here that did not chart in the U.K., were harder edged R&B songs. They were more Soulful and Blues sounding. They were great recordings that did very well here in America on the R&B/Soul charts. They sounded nothing like "Baby Love"

**bradsupremes** · 01-20-2011, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Forever Came Today was complex but it just wasn't a memorable song with a good hook; it sure wasn't as catchy as Where Did Our Love Go, Stop in the Name of Love or You Can't Hurry Love.

Over the years, the complaints I've heard about Forever are that it stopped and started, went and started etc. Also, what the heck does "Forever Came Today" mean? It's a fairly vague concept; you meet someone and they are forever? Did the Lord walk into your life? Did you die and meet your maker?

That being said, many people have suggested Forever Came Today was the most underrated Diana Ross and the Supremes single ever.

To me, a song like You Keep Me Hanging on was complex and it had Diana as agile as she ever was, blowing through that song whereas on Forever, another complex song, you have it going one speed for a few words, then picking up, the slowing down, then pausing etc.

I will also add that if the fans had known at the time that there were no Mary, Cindy, or Florence on those songs, there would have been hell to pay. But it was a totally different era where news moved a lot slower and we were all a lot less informed.

I think the whole "Forever" meant the waiting. That entire period of waiting for someone to walk into your life and change things around and then suddenly, all that waiting came today when that person walked into your life. You're right about the song not having a hook to it though.

If you also notice with the song, it was very untraditional in terms of a song structure. Most songs are A,B,A,B,C,B. "Forever Came Today" was A,B,C,A,B with the song's bridge in the middle of the song which was unorthodox. I actually like the bridge in the middle of the song. Very much like "I'm In A Different World," both songs were about this monumental moment in one's life where love changed their entire view of life and the world around them. That being said, the way both songs were musically structured gave them this darker/mature undertone underneath. It gives the songs far more of a seriousness. Where such songs as "I Hear A Symphony" have this light, happy feeling about them, "Forever Came Today" contained something deeper that gave it a serious tone to it.

I'm not sure if the song's performance on the charts had anything to do with the departure of Florence. "In And Out Of Love" was released in October 1967 months after Florence left and it was a top 10 hit for the group. "Forever Came Today" was released in February 1968.

**marv2** · 01-20-2011, 12:52 AM

The way those records charted had nothing whatsoever to do with Florence Ballard's departure from the group, because we were all led to [[actually lied to) believe that she left amicably on her own..........

**marv2** · 01-20-2011, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by MissLish

The public was rebelling against the ousting of Flo.

No, that was not true. Didn't you hear the audio interview of Diana Ross lying about how and why Florence left the group? That is all we the public knew at that time.....

**nomis** · 01-20-2011, 01:15 AM

yes marv and its not like Mary interrupted her said "excuse me Diane thats not the reason Flo left.."..Mary went along with it as well so dont just call out Diana on this subject- Berry and Mary were equally involved in it...

**midnight johnny** · 01-20-2011, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by nomis

yes marv and its not like mary interrupted her said "excuse me diane thats not the reason flo left.."..mary went along with it as well so dont just call out diana on this subject- berry and mary were equally involved in it...

.....exactly!

**marv2** · 01-20-2011, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by nomis

yes marv and its not like Mary interrupted her said "excuse me Diane thats not the reason Flo left.."..Mary went along with it as well so dont just call out Diana on this subject- Berry and Mary were equally involved in it...

She couldn't. She and Cindy Birdsong were forbidden to even speak in interviews by that point. If you believe that Mary Wilson had the power and intention to fire Florence Ballard from the Supremes, then you are delusional. Sorry, those are the facts.

**jobeterob** · 01-20-2011, 03:30 AM

There has only very rarely been criticism of Diana by Mary.

Generally, if there has criticism, it has come from obsessed or deranged fans.

About 5 years ago, Mary asked that it be stopped but in certain quarters, her words weren't heard let alone heeded.

MissLish · 01-20-2011, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by nomis

yes marv and its not like Mary interrupted her said "excuse me Diane thats not the reason Flo left.."..Mary went along with it as well so dont just call out Diana on this subject- Berry and Mary were equally involved in it...

xo @ nomis

MissLish · 01-20-2011, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

There has only very rarely been criticism of Diana by Mary.

Generally, if there has criticism, it has come from obsessed or deranged fans.

About 5 years ago, Mary asked that it be stopped but in certain quarters, her words weren't heard let alone heeded.

And will never be heard in those obsessed and deranged quarters; for those fans, it's not about the supremes really, it's about some unresolved BS that took place or didn't take place in their lives. Should we blame poor parenting, mental illness, or both?

**theboyfromxtown** · 01-20-2011, 07:15 AM

I saw this thread and it said Nothing But Heartaches. Silly me.......I thought it was about the song.

Sorry to disturb. I will leave immediately.

**robbert** · 01-21-2011, 02:57 PM

Well John, let's teach 'm.
The 45 mono mix of NBH was IMO superior to the stereo version on the More Hits album. Starting with the sound of the intro, the momo mix had a heavier, thumpin' sound, more like Back In My Arms Again. Especially the intro differs so much in sound from the stereo version, that I couldn't believe my ears in 1965, when the album came out.