Lionel Richie wants to replace Mariah Carey with Diana Ross after poor tickets sales.

**David J** · 02-26-2017, 02:23 PM

From another board.

The streets are talking the real reason LIONEL put the brakes on the tour was to disrupt a MAJOR financial LOSS if it had continued at this point. MARIAH isn't bringing in the sales he though her high profile name would. Her popularity has waned in the last decade and those lipsyncing rumors didn't help ticket sales. He is considering replacing her with DIANA ROSS. I think this is genius because DIANA consistently brings in a crowd and she is more his style than MARIAH. However, I don't see DIANA being anyone's opening act unless it's as a double act and doing a killer version on Endless Love, But he and MARIAH I'm sorry that is just a weird combination. It could work though. I thought MARY J. and MAXWELL were unequally yoked but their tour was a major success.

I don't blame him, I love Mariah and all but her management is ruining her legacy. Diana is a good replacement because she has an amazing legacy and still draws in big crowds.

**captainjames** · 02-26-2017, 02:35 PM

Perhaps he would be better off if he had the Commodores open and then joined them at the end of the show.

**reese** · 02-26-2017, 04:33 PM

I just read that the tour has been postponed due to Lionel's knee injury. I bought a ticket and I have not received official word yet. I must say, some of the ticket prices were ridiculous. I think that could be a factor as well. To that end, I also received an email last week offering a VIP upgrade, which I didn't even bother looking at.

**luke** · 02-26-2017, 07:31 PM

I think the Commodores being on the bill a great idea. And part of problem could be Lionel isnt as big a draw as thought. I think he and Diana would be great though I can't picture her even co-headlining .

**marv2** · 02-26-2017, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I think the Commodores being on the bill a great idea. And part of problem could be Lionel isnt as big a draw as thought. I think he and Diana would be great though I can't picture her even co-headlining .

The Commodores and Lionel Richie will never be sharing a bill or a stage again.

**Bluebrock** · 02-27-2017, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by luke

I think the Commodores being on the bill a great idea. And part of problem could be Lionel isnt as big a draw as thought. I think he and Diana would be great though I can't picture her even co-headlining .

Neither can i Luke. Having said that Diana and Lionel did meet up recently for lunch to discuss another potential project so never say never............

**marv2** · 02-27-2017, 11:14 AM

Lionel Richie has the same problem that people like Diana Ross have and that is the music buying public under 35 years old do not know him or his music.

**Bluebrock** · 02-27-2017, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Lionel Richie has the same problem that people like Diana Ross have and that is the music buying public under 35 years old do not know him or his music.

True enough, but you could say that for just about every other artist of their era, and the tour was not aimed at the under 35's anyway so that is not really the problem here.

**arr&bee** · 02-27-2017, 02:35 PM

Haaaaaaaaaaaa...never been a richie fan,maybe[alvin an the chipmonks]could open for him!

**marv2** · 02-27-2017, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

Haaaaaaaaaaaa...never been a richie fan,maybe[alvin an the chipmonks]could open for him!

He could get his twin "Mr. Ed", but I think he's passed on now. LOL!!!!

**jobeterob** · 02-27-2017, 07:23 PM

She's happy where she is, doing what she does.

Her tour grossed $10 Million last year.

Sounds like chatter and wishful thinking.

**Bluebrock** · 02-28-2017, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

He could get his twin "Mr. Ed", but I think he's passed on now. LOL!!!!

Not a terribly respectful comment Marv. Lionel is one of the nicest people in the business, and whether or not you are a fan his contribution to Motown and music in general cannot be denied.

**marv2** · 02-28-2017, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

Not a terribly respectful comment Marv. Lionel is one of the nicest people in the business, and whether or not you are a fan his contribution to Motown and music in general cannot be denied.

Ask the remaining members of the Commodores how nice he is! If you can't take a joke as they say...............

**Bluebrock** · 02-28-2017, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Ask the remaining members of the Commodores how nice he is! If you can't take a joke as they say...............

How much of a joke would you find it if we began talking about Mary Wilson's incontinence or her rather colourful love life? Let us stop this here and now. If you can't take a joke as they say............

**Roberta75** · 02-28-2017, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

Not a terribly respectful comment Marv. Lionel is one of the nicest people in the business, and whether or not you are a fan his contribution to Motown and music in general cannot be denied.

And Mr Ritchie is a great showman. Ive seen his 2 times and hes amazing on stage.

Fondly,

Roberta

**thanxal** · 02-28-2017, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

He could get his twin "Mr. Ed", but I think he's passed on now. LOL!!!!

What a rude and disgusting comment.

**marv2** · 02-28-2017, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by thanxal

What a rude and disgusting comment.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Guy** · 02-28-2017, 03:56 PM

I don't think Ross would be an adequate substitute considering venue size and ticket prices. The whole undertaking was strangely ambitious, I bought tickets for the Hollywood Bowl last year half-expecting it to be cancelled.

**vgalindo** · 02-28-2017, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Guy

I don't think Ross would be an adequate substitute considering venue size and ticket prices. The whole undertaking was strangely ambitious, I bought tickets for the Hollywood Bowl last year half-expecting it to be cancelled.

Why would you think it would be cancelled. She sales out that place quite frequently. When I saw her in 2013 the staff was saying this was their biggest sell out in years.

**jobeterob** · 02-28-2017, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Ask the remaining members of the Commodores how nice he is! If you can't take a joke as they say...............

Those that are left behind, or left in the dirt if we want to talk like you talk, always whine a little bit - like Mary.

And then they realize what side of the bread is buttered with gold and then they want another reunion; and oh, how good they will be; they will listen this time; and follow Berry's orders and Suzanne's orders bla bla bla

**Guy** · 02-28-2017, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by vgalindo

Why would you think it would be cancelled. She sales out that place quite frequently. When I saw her in 2013 the staff was saying this was their biggest sell out in years.

I meant Lionel + Mariah. They are playing venues of 15K to 20K capacity across the country. Ticket prices are $350 in some markets and beyond that for VIP packages. They are doing two nights at the Bowl [[18,000 cap. x 2) and boxes start at $250 per seat. I don't think either artist has the drawing power to make this work. That's why I expected tickets sales to be underwhelming resulting in an eventual cancellation even as I purchased my tickets last year.

About Ross, yes she did play the Bowl but at SIGNIFICANTLY lower ticket prices and as part of the LA Phil subscription series. She 'sold out' the venue without technically filling every seat. I've been to subscription shows at The Bowl that were better-attended than Ross, including Grace Jones. This is not a dig, I've been here long enough for everyone to know I love Ross. But based on the smaller, out-of-the-way venues she has played for the last several years we know she could not step into Mariah's slot and save this failed tour.

**vgalindo** · 03-01-2017, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Guy

I meant Lionel + Mariah. They are playing venues of 15K to 20K capacity across the country. Ticket prices are $350 in some markets and beyond that for VIP packages. They are doing two nights at the Bowl [[18,000 cap. x 2) and boxes start at $250 per seat. I don't think either artist has the drawing power to make this work. That's why I expected tickets sales to be underwhelming resulting in an eventual cancellation even as I purchased my tickets last year.

About Ross, yes she did play the Bowl but at SIGNIFICANTLY lower ticket prices and as part of the LA Phil subscription series. She 'sold out' the venue without technically filling every seat. I've been to subscription shows at The Bowl that were better-attended than Ross, including Grace Jones. This is not a dig, I've been here long enough for everyone to know I love Ross. But based on the smaller, out-of-the-way venues she has played for the last several years we know she could not step into Mariah's slot and save this failed tour.

Oh thought you were talking about Diana at the Bowl. However the show I attended was sold out and I didn't see one empty seat. It was filled to capacity.

**jobeterob** · 03-01-2017, 09:24 PM

Overall though, this whole thing is poor planning and a seems pretty naive - and I'm referring to Lionel's tour and his prices. He peaked in the 80's. That's a long time ago. The ladies of today are Adele and Beyonce'. Mariah was a 90's lady and Diana was a 70's lady. As big a stars as Lionel and Diana and Mariah were, they will not command those prices today and if he is thinking he is filling huge venues, then the shock he got is somewhat deserved. Diana Ross will not step forward to save him and if she did, it would not be successful without a whole rewrite of where they are performing.

**vgalindo** · 03-01-2017, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Overall though, this whole thing is poor planning and a seems pretty naive - and I'm referring to Lionel's tour and his prices. He peaked in the 80's. That's a long time ago. The ladies of today are Adele and Beyonce'. Mariah was a 90's lady and Diana was a 70's lady. As big a stars as Lionel and Diana and Mariah were, they will not command those prices today and if he is thinking he is filling huge venues, then the shock he got is somewhat deserved. Diana Ross will not step forward to save him and if she did, it would not be successful without a whole rewrite of where they are performing.

Very true Rob. However Diana was at her peak for concerts in the 80s. She played small to large venues in the 70s but in the 80s her tours were mostly the big arenas and a few stadiums.

**marv2** · 03-01-2017, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by vgalindo

Very true Rob. However Diana was at her peak for concerts in the 80s. She played small to large venues in the 70s but in the 80s her tours were mostly the big arenas and a few stadiums.

Yeah, but the 80s were over 30 years ago. That doesn't count today when it comes to selling concert tickets. She can't bring in that many additional people and her audience is contracting, not expanding.

**luke** · 03-02-2017, 12:43 AM

Didn't Lionel have a renaissance and a # 1 album not too long ago?

**Roberta75** · 03-02-2017, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Yeah, but the 80s were over 30 years ago. That doesn't count today when it comes to selling concert tickets. She can't bring in that many additional people and her audience is contracting, not expanding.

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

**marv2** · 03-02-2017, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Didn't Lionel have a renaissance and a # 1 album not too long ago?

I think he did briefly in 1996, 21 years ago. Other than that he had a remake album of duets that really didn't do anything.

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2017, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

Lol ! And her tour grossed $10 million last year in about 25 dates whereas Mary grossed $100000

**Bluebrock** · 03-02-2017, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are proud of that remark then i truly pity you.

**Bluebrock** · 03-02-2017, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

I think he did briefly in 1996, 21 years ago. Other than that he had a remake album of duets that really didn't do anything.

You think incorrectly. He released an album called TUSKEGEE which reached no.1 on the Billboard chart in 2012. Check your facts before posting.

**jobeterob** · 03-02-2017, 10:54 AM

True

That's likely why he thought he could do this kind of tour

But the prices are too high and venues too large

**Guy** · 03-08-2017, 12:37 AM

The Hollywood Bowl shows are no longer for sale on Ticketmaster. However, TM shows Mariah performing in Las Vegas the night of one of the Bowl shows. So far ticketholders haven't been alerted of a cancellation so it seems likely they are still working to repeal and replace Mariah. If they can't come up with someone superstar-level, many folks -- myself included -- will be screaming for a refund.

**Bluebrock** · 03-08-2017, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Guy

The Hollywood Bowl shows are no longer for sale on Ticketmaster. However, TM shows Mariah performing in Las Vegas the night of one of the Bowl shows. So far ticketholders haven't been alerted of a cancellation so it seems likely they are still working to repeal and replace Mariah. If they can't come up with someone superstar-level, many folks -- myself included -- will be screaming for a refund.

I honestly think you would be doing yourself a favour if you got yourself a refund Guy. I love Mariah from way back but the truth is she cannot cut it anymore. She always lack charisma and stage presence when performing live but always sounded great on record. Now she has lost the ability to sing decently on record , and despite all the tricks of the trade no producer or mixer on this earth can change that. It is a great pity because i regarded her as the new Whitney in the early 90's. Working with her presented some difficult challenges but i remained a fan until an incident around 14 years ago that confirmed to me what i had been fearing - Mariah was losing her vocal ability, and this is because she did not look after her voice despite pleas from her inner circle. Now her "live" shows are virtually 100% lip synched and that is not good.
As regards Lionel he too has lost a considerable amount of his vocal ability but not through neglect. Some artists voices deteriorate faster than others. With Lionel it is purely down to age and little else, but to his great credit he remains a showman and can still put on a good show if you are willing to accept it will not be the Lionel from the 70's and 80's.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 03-08-2017, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

You think incorrectly. He released an album called TUSKEGEE which reached no.1 on the Billboard chart in 2012. Check your facts before posting.

'Tuskegee' was indeed a major renaissance for Lionel. A co-headline tour of Diana and Lionel could actually be a draw, taking into account all the other ideas already mentioned. I'm not truly a Lionel 'fan', but when he opened for Tina Turner on the '24/7' tour I thought he did a great show; the audience treated him like a headliner by the time his set was done.

**reese** · 03-08-2017, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

'Tuskegee' was indeed a major renaissance for Lionel. A co-headline tour of Diana and Lionel could actually be a draw, taking into account all the other ideas already mentioned. I'm not truly a Lionel 'fan', but when he opened for Tina Turner on the '24/7' tour I thought he did a great show; the audience treated him like a headliner by the time his set was done.

I saw Lionel on that tour as well and really enjoyed his show.

It was also an interesting tour because Lionel was opening for Tina. 16 years previously, it was Tina who was opening for Lionel when her comeback began.

**jobeterob** · 03-08-2017, 02:21 PM

The issue is can these true icons, and Mariah, Lionel and Diana are all cultural icons, attract massive crowds at astronomical prices.

You'll remember that at some large sports event recently, some of the 20ish year old players were mesmerized by Diana, but they also didn't really know any of her songs.

The same applies to Lionel and Mariah and it may show my age, but it seems to me that a lot of their songs were clones of previous number one songs and many of them are forgettable. More of Diana's songs and her Supremes songs are legendary than Mariahs and Lionels - Stop in the Name Of Love? I'm Coming Out? Ain't No Mountain High Enough? You Can't Hurry Love? You Keep Me Hangin On? Someday We'll be Together? Endless Love?

I think that kind of tour is to lavish and too pricey.

**marv2** · 03-08-2017, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

The issue is can these true icons, and Mariah, Lionel and Diana are all cultural icons, attract massive crowds at astronomical prices.

You'll remember that at some large sports event recently, some of the 20ish year old players were mesmerized by Diana, but they also didn't really know any of her songs.

The same applies to Lionel and Mariah and it may show my age, but it seems to me that a lot of their songs were clones of previous number one songs and many of them are forgettable. More of Diana's songs and her Supremes songs are legendary than Mariahs and Lionels - Stop in the Name Of Love? I'm Coming Out? Ain't No Mountain High Enough? You Can't Hurry Love? You Keep Me Hangin On? Someday We'll be Together? Endless Love?

I think that kind of tour is to lavish and too pricey.

Diane's last chance for a large arena tour was with RTL and we all know how that went. No more!

**Guy** · 03-08-2017, 03:27 PM

Agree with most of the comments here. The Lionel + Mariah tour was overly-ambitious in venue size and ticket prices. Certain classic rock and pop acts -- Streisand, The Stones, The Eagles, maybe Fleetwood Mac -- could command those prices but I dont think there are any heritage R&B/Soul artists in that group.

I think everyone involved vastly overestimated Mariah's appeal as a live performer. I dont think Lionel could find a touring partner that would justify that ticket price -- not even Ross or Janet.

**Luciano** · 03-08-2017, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

The issue is can these true icons, and Mariah, Lionel and Diana are all cultural icons, attract massive crowds at astronomical prices.

You'll remember that at some large sports event recently, some of the 20ish year old players were mesmerized by Diana, but they also didn't really know any of her songs.

The same applies to Lionel and Mariah and it may show my age, but it seems to me that a lot of their songs were clones of previous number one songs and many of them are forgettable. More of Diana's songs and her Supremes songs are legendary than Mariahs and Lionels - Stop in the Name Of Love? I'm Coming Out? Ain't No Mountain High Enough? You Can't Hurry Love? You Keep Me Hangin On? Someday We'll be Together? Endless Love?

I think that kind of tour is to lavish and too pricey.

This is one of those questions that puzzels/ interests me. How does a Diana Ross that has so many hit records not be able to fill a stadium/arena but a Tina Turner with less hits can?

**JohnnyB** · 03-08-2017, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Luciano

This is one of those questions that puzzels/ interests me. How does a Diana Ross that has so many hit records not be able to fill a stadium/arena but a Tina Turner with less hits can?

Good question, and although I do not know the answer, I wonder if it has to do with the type of show both ladies present on stage. Tina's is more energetic with a harder edge while Diana's is laid back and smooth. Plus I think Tina's comeback in 1984 opened her up to the MTV audience which is very different from Diana's audience. Just an opinion...

**reese** · 03-08-2017, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Good question, and although I do not know the answer, I wonder if it has to do with the type of show both ladies present on stage. Tina's is more energetic with a harder edge while Diana's is laid back and smooth. Plus I think Tina's comeback in 1984 opened her up to the MTV audience which is very different from Diana's audience. Just an opinion...

I would also venture to add that Tina's life story is well known to current audiences and has made her an inspiration to many. It is well-known that she had to overcome a lot of adversity before she had the major success of the 80s and 90s. The film of her life, WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT, is constantly on tv. The last time Tina toured in America, 2008-2009 I believe, it had been almost 20 years since her last hit, but she still drew arena-sized crowds.

**marv2** · 03-08-2017, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Guy

Agree with most of the comments here. The Lionel + Mariah tour was overly-ambitious in venue size and ticket prices. Certain classic rock and pop acts -- Streisand, The Stones, The Eagles, maybe Fleetwood Mac -- could command those prices but I dont think there are any heritage R&B/Soul artists in that group.

I think everyone involved vastly overestimated Mariah's appeal as a live performer. I dont think Lionel could find a touring partner that would justify that ticket price -- not even Ross or Janet.

If we still had Luther Vandross, he would be able to without a doubt.

**marv2** · 03-08-2017, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Luciano

This is one of those questions that puzzels/ interests me. How does a Diana Ross that has so many hit records not be able to fill a stadium/arena but a Tina Turner with less hits can?

It's been said that Tina Turner is the "Queen of Rock" and Rock Concerts are more suitable to large arenas and stadiums. Now,back in the day, the 70s and early 80s R&B bands like Parliament/Funkadeliac, Commodores, EWF, etc were able to fill large arenas everywhere. There are not any bands of their caliber out there today. None!

**Guy** · 03-09-2017, 12:23 AM

Tina Turner's shows are spectacle and a great showcase for her talents. I dare say Ross' show has not been a Tina/Cher/Bette-level spectacle in decades. Also, Oprah's influence helped elevate the Tina Turner show experience to a cultural event.

If Lionel could coax Tina Turner out of retirement and into the "very special guest" gig the tour would sellout overnight. At 77, she could just stand and sing, like Shirley Bassey, and still thrill audiences.

**Jaap** · 03-09-2017, 02:32 AM

Tina Turner would be fitting. Just before her 1984 comeback, she was the opening act of Lionel Richie's Can't Slow Down tour--and I think years later, in the 1990s, it was the other way around, but I'm not sure about that.

**detmotownguy** · 03-09-2017, 02:38 AM

Now you are talking Marv! Didn't Tina perform a concert with about 80,000?

**marv2** · 03-09-2017, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

Now you are talking Marv! Didn't Tina perform a concert with about 80,000?

Yes and I think it was in Brazil. I also remember she had a crowd of around 120,000 paying concert goers somewhere.

**jack020** · 03-09-2017, 06:16 AM

Tina stopped touring in 2000 and lives in Zurich/Switzerland with her german husband.
She announced in 2016 that she has been working on "Tina", a new musical based on her story, in collaboration with Phyllida Lloyd and [[Dutch)Stage Entertainment.
The announcement was on a musical awards show [[ a la the Tony Awards) in Holland in which she was a guest.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 03-09-2017, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Luciano

This is one of those questions that puzzels/ interests me. How does a Diana Ross that has so many hit records not be able to fill a stadium/arena but a Tina Turner with less hits can?

In addition to the other interesting comments, here's the opinion of a fan of both ladies who has seen at least 1 show of pretty much every tour since 1970. Firstly I'd say Tina is simply an anomaly regarding the crowds she was able to draw through the final tour; there's Bette and Cher, and Stevie Nicks is doing quite well on her current arena tour, but most vintage performers don't fill arenas. I think the major difference in Diana and Tina is that Diana's decades-long and record-breaking run of huge hits was nearing its end at the same time that Tina was being introduced to the public as a solo act, and therefore in an odd way became an 80's [['newer') act. I'd also say that Tina drew a larger female audience due to the perception of her being a 'survivor/icon' due to her history. Both ladies are extraordinary talents and both are worthy of their acclaim.