Can Someone Please Reissue the Jimmy Webb album?

[thanxal]

I happened to be picking pieces of vinyl out of my collection for Friday night listening and got to the Jimmy Webb album. I know that all the tracks were released on This is the Story boxed set, but could someone at Universal please pay attention to just how good this album is? My favorite track is 5:30 Plane [[which at my local airport would leave at 6:45, but not the point). I flipped the record and looked. Guess what? Every.single.track. Every one is just out of this world. I put all of these songs in my various playlists, but as an album, this has got to be perhaps the best Supremes beginning-to-end concept album. I have ALWAYS loved Jean Terrell and this just confirms that.

I would start a thread about the Supremes most underrated LP but then it would devolve into a stupid fight. I'm sure there must be alternate takes and still-missing tracks. As far as I know The Supremes Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb has never seen the light of day since its original LP release in 1972. This is a true gem.

[luke]

Totally agree. Love it!! I could be wrong but I think it got released in the 80s when Motown released some Suprmes and other Motown stuff on CDs. I think I have it somewhere. I'm sure someone here knows for sure but I'd love an expanded edition

[Thornton]

Totally agree. Love it!! I could be wrong but I think it got released in the 80s when Motown released some Suprmes and other Motown stuff on CDs. I think I have it somewhere. I'm sure someone here knows for sure but I'd love an expanded edition

I could be wrong too, but it was my understanding that "Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb" was the only Jean-era album that wasn't released on CD. I think that's why so many Jimmy Webb tracks were put on "Greatest Hits & Rare Classics".

While the album has been dismissed over the years, it remains my favorite album that Jean Terrell recorded with the group. While I do wish it was only Mary and Lynda doing backup, and while Jean does sound a little shrill on "Beyond Myself", I think the overall album is a masterpiece, and took The Supremes in an exciting new direction. I also love "5:30 Plane", but "All I Want" remains a favorite, as well as being the first Jimmy Webb track I heard when I bought the 70's Anthology in 2002. I think "Tossin' & Turnin'" would have made a strong single since it seemed to fit so well into their live act.

So glad to see other folks to enjoy the album as much as I do.

[jobucats]

Hey, thanxal, I agree with you on two points you made: It is indeed a great album AND to start a thread on this would lead to a "you're stupid if you don't have my opinion" fight.

When you speak of a re-release, are you speaking of a vinyl album and/or an expanded version? I ask because iTunes has it available as a stand alone download. Oh, no, I've opened up a can of worms there from those who will nastily negate my statement! But then again, maybe the iTunes availablilty of "The Supremes Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb" is not what you meant in your request.

Anyway, I love the whole album including "I Guess I'll Miss the Man."

[bradsupremes]

If want to hear a phenomenal Jimmy Webb, listen to the 5th Dimension's "Magic Garden" and "Earthbound" albums. Or Thelma Houston's "Sunshower" album. And how could I leave off the two albums he did with Richard Harris - "A Tramp Shining" and "The Yard Went On Forever." All of those albums are incredibly written, arranged, and produced by Jimmy Webb. All of them are the top of my favorite albums of all time. They're masterpieces. I'm sorry, but the Supremes / Jimmy Webb album is not in that same league. It could have been so much more, but it has many problems...

1.) Song selection - Jimmy has one of the best song catalogs ever and with the exception of "I Keep It Hid" and "When Can Brown Begin," the rest of his songs on this album are not his best. And the songs he didn't write aren't all that spectacular either. Plus the inclusion of "I Guess I'll Miss The Man?" A song neither written, produced or arranged by Webb. It charted so poorly I'm surprised Motown would stick it on the album.

2.) Arrangements - The rock style was totally unfit for the group. It doesn't mix. Webb needed to gear the ladies in a different way, but still maintain a soulful element. The best example would be what he later did on the 5th Dimension's "Earthbound" album. And I'm a sucker for his gorgeous orchestral arrangements too. Those are sadly missing from this album.

3.) Vocals - Sorry, but Jean sounds shrill on this album. The keys were cut too high for her. And the addition of the Blossoms made it sound, as someone said on here one time, like the Mormom Tabernacle Choir. The harmonies of the three ladies is much more effective. It wasn't the 60's anymore. Jean, Mary, and Lynda proved they could sing anything and soar. It's not like there were bad vocals to cover. The Blossoms weren't needed.

I'm sorry, but the pairing of my favorite group with my favorite songwriter should have been something out of this world. In the end, it didn't and it's so disappointing.

[luke]

Well we all have our preferences and I agree Thiornton...A masterpiece . Jeans soars and Mary magnificent on I Keep It Hid. Of course Blossoms not needed but nor were the Andantes. 530 Plane just fantastic and could have been a hit. Beautiful arrangements and so creative and different for a female group. My favorite Suprmes album ever.

[franjoy56]

Well we all have our preferences and I agree Thiornton...A masterpiece . Jeans soars and Mary magnificent on I Keep It Hid. Of course Blossoms not needed but nor were the Andantes. 530 Plane just fantastic and could have been a hit. Beautiful arrangements and so creative and different for a female group. My favorite Suprmes album ever.

i love the album too especially the ballads the blossoms should have been eliminated in fsvor of mary lynda and cindy shes on one track the album cover should have had a photo of jml

[jobeterob]

I thought 530 plane could have been a hot if it were the lead single

When can brown begin was also excellent

Generally it was the side 2 material that was somewhat shrill in spots

[Bluebrock]

What an interesting thread thankxal. I have always thought the Jimmy Webb album to be the weakest Supremes album ever. Your post has made me dig out the album again which i intend to listen to again later today.I always thought the timing of the album was so wrong. The girls were crying out for a hit single at that moment in time and never in a million years were we to find a hit on that album. I would have despaired had i been given that album to promote. I have always been a big admirer of Jimmy Webb and have derived much pleasure from his work with a number of artists , particularly the 5th Dimension and of course his wonderful collaboration with Thelma Houston - now that album was a masterpiece. Jean is one of my all time favourite female vocalists but she was nowhere near her best on this album. As bradsupremes correctly says Jean struggled with these songs which were in the wrong key for her, and the songs themselves were far from being what i would call "classic" Jimmy Webb tunes. It all sounded like an unholy mess to me at the time. I was so disappointed with it and i suspected it marked the end of the Supremes, which of course i was proven wrong about. And don't get me started on that cover!What was that all about? Surely a photo of the ladies was the least Motown could do for the girls. It was as if Motown knew they had a stinker of an album on their hands. As expected the album sank without trace, and quite rightly so in my opinion, but i loved reading the above posts from other members who got so much pleasure out of this album. That is what i love about this forum. Members discussing their loves and hates in a respectful, dignified manner. I am very pleased that some of you folks found such listening pleasure in this album. Good for you!
As for me i am off to listen to the album again having not heard it for a couple of years.
As regards it's availability on cd i am pretty certain it has only ever been legally available on the Jean Terrell box set , though i did come across a bootleg in the 90's.
Enjoy your weekend folks.

[mysterysinger]

Wonder if it's an album that could see release via Elemental. It would be great given their deluxe treatment and open out gatefold CD cover.

[thanxal]

Thanks everyone for the respectful discussion.
When I posted that I was thinking more along the lines of an album that hung together from first to last track. I agree that it's not the best exposition of Jimmy Webb's work, but that wasn't my point. The only other Supremes album that is as listenable as an album IMHO is maybe The Supremes. Most of their 60s work is hits will filler [[even my fav - A Go Go). I'm also not listening to it in its historical context, since that's long past. Still with all its flaws Produced and Arranged is a great listen. IMHO.

[lakedistrictlad1]

I've always enjoyed this album. And I love playing it to friends who have preconceived ideas of the Supremes, just to see their jaws drop!

[luke]

So true. When this album came out my housemates at the time loved it and one played it all the time and he was not a big Motown or supremes fan at all. He usually put head phones on and went to "heaven."

[sup_fan]

I believe u can get the album digitally on iTunes.

[daviddh]

the tracks or some were released on cd in the 90s , I think , but with hits added, I think it may have been called Stoned love and it was a budget cd and listed as Diana ross and the supremes and with Diana Mary Flo on the cover,lol . I think it also had Love Train and Nathan Jones. I have it somewhere. I was insulted the used the 60s photo and not a 70s.
regarding the original lp, hated the cover art. the lp was ok. I don't remember 530 plane but will have anther listen shortly, thank you for mentioning it. I thought Silent Voices and Keep It Hid were good

[daviddh]

When Can Brown Begin was also a stand out. I also didn't care for the additional backing vocals. if I pay to hear the Supremes and the record states it the Supremes , then that's what we should be hearing. not the Blossoms, no disrespect intended. but why??

[daviddh]

the Motown legneds cd was released in 1995 and contained 11 tracks inc
together we can make such sweet music
love train
time and love
Nathan jones
stoned love
530 plane
silent voices
paradise
cheap lovin
all I want
when can brown begins
available to ebay and amazon

[luke]

I agree but why don't people feel same about the Andantes??

[Bluebrock]

I agree but why don't people feel same about the Andantes??

Heaven only knows Luke.

[sup_fan]

i think many people do. People have been arguing for years about who's doing background on what tracks. And in many cases, the Andantes were added but not to completely overpower M and F. it's very interesting to listen to Country Western & Pop and compare the two versions. there are a handful of DMF only tracks on a 1963 unreleased cd that was released a year or two ago. So while the A's occasionally did a full background on a song, usually they just were added in to either boost the vocals or add additional background likes [[like in parts of Going Down For Third Time). Rarely were they used to completely overwhelm the backing vocals on an entire lp

Plus i think the Jimmy Webb project is sort of a sensitive topic. it's when things were really at a breaking point for the group, some fell the musical direction was ill-advised at the time, all of the problems around promotion of the group and in-fighting, etc. I know we've all played the game of What If - if only things had been different, or if motown had done X or Y.

[daviddh]

I feel the same way with the Blossoms and the Andantees

[sup_fan]

in general, it seems as though most fans really loved the Frank Wilson work with the Sups. some like the Floy Joy set better than others. most have concerns over the Jimmy Webb set. and the verdict also appears mixed with regards to Bad Weather

So where do you think the Sups should have gone, musically, in late 71 and through 72? black music in general was not dominating the BillBoard charts at this time. disco wasn't yet really in the mainstream yet.

[Guy]

Linda Ronstadt recorded the DEFINITIVE version of "I Keep It Hid" in the 80s on her "Cry Like A Rainstorm" CD. Now, I cannot listen to any earlier versions of that song.

[Guy]

BTW, I have the 'This Is The Story' 70s Supremes box set and the Jimmy Webb session is, in my opinion, not their finest hour. I like "Paradise" but the rest of it is unremarkable.

[Thornton]

I agree but why don't people feel same about the Andantes??

Knowing the Andantes sang background on "Love Child" and so many of my other favorite "Supremes" songs totally changed the way I listen to/enjoy them. I give The Blossoms a slight pass because Mary and Lynda's voices are mixed somewhere in the backup vocals.

Someone made a good point about the song selections. I would have loved to hear a JML cover of "MacArthur Park" and "The Girl's Song." It also made no sense to have "I Guess I'll Miss the Man" on this album. Whenever I listen to it I start with "5:30 Plane".

Having said all this, there are changes, both big and small, that I would make to most of The Supremes' 70's albums, but I try to enjoy them as they are.

[luke]

Well said. And I accept more of the choral effect on Webb because he seemed to want that huge vocal sound due to the nature of the songs. I read that Cindy was also on at least a couple of them. I've never heard that before! ??

[sup_fan]

aside from the discrepancy with the title, i don't really have a problem with I Guess being on this album. if the rest of the album didn't have the Harlem Gospel Choir accompanying in the background, the tone and sound of I Guess would have been very similar to the rest of the lp.

frankly i think Time and Love is far more out of place on New Way than I Guess is on Jimmy Webb

[thommg]

frankly i think Time and Love is far more out of place on New Way than I Guess is on Jimmy Webb

I would agree with that statement. Time & Love [[admittedly not a favorite of mine) sounds too pop for New Ways. Regarding the Jimmy Webb LP, I liked it very much on release with the exception of Cheap Lovin'. Not a favorite of mine either. The choir background vocals were very different and I didn't care for them. I think they hurt Silent Voices quite a bit. They are just too loud and large. The Andantes were used to replace Mary & Flo & Cindy. The Blossoms were added to create a larger chorus.

[Bokiluis]

The entire album is an artistic triumph. I understand why it is Jean Terrell's favorite album because she is simply dazzling. It is the one Supremes 70s album that I look forward to hearing a song whenever it comes up in the shuffle mode of on my iPod. There are other times when I have to hear Side One, for those of us from the analog era of the music industry.
It is first a tour de force for Jean. Despite its nominal commercial success, I would have not been surprised if she chose a couple of the songs to play as she was label shopping. [["Floy Joy", the album is my favorite radio targeted release).
This album required special marketing. It is analogous to Barbara Streisand's "The Broadway Album" or "sings Rodgers & Hart". Reviews and instore play in non-traditional outlets like restaurants, boutiques, etc. Unfortunately, reviews would have to be handled carefully since comments about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir which would be a diss to the other ladies in the group.
Though many fans and possibly some members of the group had begun to complain that Motown no longer seemed interested in promoting and marketing, I don't think that loss of interest was there during the "Jean Years". Once Frank Wilson delivered hits, they even gave them a rare opportunity to work with Smokey, on the excellent "Floy Joy" album. "written and by Jim Webb" was a vote to highlight their ability to do more than chase radio AirPlay. They were positioned as "artiste". Was Motown's Marketing and Promotion department ready or able to handle such a project? I think if it were Diana, the results would have been a little different.

[Bokiluis]

I would start a thread about the Supremes most underrated LP but then it would devolve into a stupid fight. I'm sure there must be alternate takes and still-missing tracks. As far as I know The Supremes Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb has never seen the light of day since its original LP release in 1972. This is a true gem.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was released as a single CD in the mid-90s, around the time the excellent remastered version of "Live at London's Talk of the Town" in 1994.

[Bokiluis]

Well said. And I accept more of the choral effect on Webb because he seemed to want that huge vocal sound due to the nature of the songs. I read that Cindy was also on at least a couple of them. I've never heard that before! ??

i fear even mentioning the words, "The Return to Love Tour". However, most who attended that very fulfilling event known as "The Return to Love Tour"[[my opinion and my opinion only) may have noticed that there were 3 additional background singers supporting Scherrie and Lynda. They were positioned to the back on a level slightly below the main stage. I guess to fully capture the theatrical feel....producers wanted as full a sound as possible, I guess. When I first noticed it was a bit jarring. But just like I really couldn't hear The Andantes on my mono record player, you had to have great hearing to distinguish the difference.

[johnny_raven]

The Jimmy Webb LP had not been released in it's entirety until the This Is The Story box set came out.

[Glenpwood]

@Bokiluis - There was no official release of Webb in the nineties. You are probably thinking of Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop which was issued in 1994 around the same time as "Talk Of The Town." George Solomon wrote on the forum years ago that he tried to get clearances to release the Webb and later 70's Supremes albums in the early nineties but the higher ups said no to everything past Floy Joy except a maybe to "High Energy" - which we got along with Webb on the boxset. This is why the Stoned Love cheapie comp and the Greatest Hits & Rare Classics were so heavy on the post FJ material. There was no guarantee any of it would ever come out. As we know it took over a decade to get it from that point...

[thanxal]

@Bokiluis - There was no official release of Webb in the nineties. You are probably thinking of Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop which was issued in 1994 around the same time as "Talk Of The Town." George Solomon wrote on the forum years ago that he tried to get clearances to release the Webb and later 70's Supremes albums in the early nineties but the higher ups said no to everything past Floy Joy except a maybe to "High Energy" - which we got along with Webb on the boxset. This is why the Stoned Love cheapie comp and the Greatest Hits & Rare Classics were so heavy on the post FJ material. There was no guarantee any of it would ever come out. As we know it took over a decade to get it from that point...

That was my understanding too. When Bokiluis wrote that my first thought was "what?!? how could I have missed even one Supremes release". LOL. Some I know about and choose not to buy, but to miss something as big as Produced and Arranged by would surely result in being ejected from The First Church of the Supremes!

[johnjeb]

As I have mentioned before on this Forum every time this album is discussed, Jimmy Webb stated, in a Goldmine Magazine interview about 20 years ago, that he wished he had done The Supremes album differently. Unfortunately he either did not elaborate or it was not included in the article. I have tried to find this interview online but have not been successful. I'm not even sure I saved it with my memorabilia.

Jimmy Webb also mentioned, in that article, that the first time he saw his name on a record was My Christmas Tree on The Supremes' Merry Christmas album.

The Jimmy Webb album is my least favorite Jean-led album [[not including the duets with the Four Tops). I have four songs on my iPod: All I Want, I Keep It Hid, Paradise and I Guess I'll Miss the Man. I'm thankful they rarely pop-up when my iPod is on shuffle.

[captainjames]

I got enough with "This Is The Story". This album/CD does not need to be revisit again in my opinion. lets just leave it the way it lays in history. This is the only album by the Suprmes that I only played once on my turntable and then it went back in the cover. I did not like the cover of the album, I did not like them drinking out of paper cups on the back. I just did not like it.

[luke]

Apparently you didn't like it Cj. Lol. Isn't Mary wearing a little hat on back cover? I bet u didn't like that either! [[Not the most flattering!but they were trying to be Unsupremey and casual! I think)

[Bluebrock]

I got enough with "This Is The Story". This album/CD does not need to be revisit again in my opinion. lets just leave it the way it lays in history. This is the only album by the Suprmes that I only played once on my turntable and then it went back in the cover. I did not like the cover of the album, I did not like them drinking out of paper cups on the back. I just did not like it.

I totally agree captainjames. Whilst i totally respect other peoples views i maintain this to be by far the worst Supremes album ever. I have listened to it twice all the way through recently, and if anything i find it to be less pleasureable on each hearing. It is all a matter of personal taste of course but i would prefer to forget that it was ever released. I dxo not know know if any out takes exist but if they do i hope they see the light of day at some point so that fans of the album can hear them but as for me? Thanks but no thanks.

[lakedistrictlad1]

I quite like the album. But it's not a Supremes album. Nor a Motown album.

I play it to friends to watch their mouths drop open in disbelief that it is the Supremes.

[theboyfromxtown]

I quite like the album. But it's not a Supremes album. Nor a Motown album.

I play it to friends to watch their mouths drop open in disbelief that it is the Supremes.

lololol That's exactly how most of us felt when we first heard it. Could caught a few flies that day.

[theboyfromxtown]

I totally agree captainjames. Whilst i totally respect other peoples views i maintain this to be by far the worst Supremes album ever. I have listened to it twice all the way through recently, and if anything i find it to be less pleasureable on each hearing. It is all a matter of personal taste of course but i would prefer to forget that it was ever released. I dxo not know know if any out takes exist but if they do i hope they see the light of day at some point so that fans of the album can hear them but as for me? Thanks but no thanks.

Try it in another 10 years.......I managed to "warm" to it when I passed 60!

[Bluebrock]

Try it in another 10 years.......I managed to "warm" to it when I passed 60!

I may well do that!! I refuse to give up on it!

[mpn1jco]

I may well do that!! I refuse to give up on it!

In the late seventies and early 80s the Jimmy Webb album and all of the Scherrie Payne Supremes albums were staples of the 99 cent bin in department stores, drug stores etc all over the City.I gave into my curiousity and I finally purchased these albums in 1981 on leave from boarding school. I think the Jimmy Webb album was an attempt to bring the Supremes into the soft rock/ adult contemporary sound that was popular at the time. I did not like the album but I loved 5:30 plane. I liked All I Want and Beyond Myself. I remember my older brother came into the basement and dismissed the album by saying Jean Terrell was off key and he couldn't listen to her for more than one song. Being a musician himself, he said this album had to be their Motown swansong because it indicated the label had no interest in them whatsoever for the mere reason any reasonable executive would not approved the album for commercial release because Jean Terrell was singing off key on the album, the ultimate cardinal sin for a vocal group. To some extent, being oblivious to their post Diana Supremes he was right on target about Motown. As far as the Scherrie Payne years, he dismissed them as grade C material and Charlie Angels style disco. He looked at the back of Mary, Scherrie, and Susaye and said they couldn't be tackier.

We were the ultimate Supremes fans growing up. We played their albums over and over. It was so strange to catch up with the post Supremes Diana in one afternoon, this group that was part of the fabric of our childhood. I think his opinion may give some insight into the lack of success for the latter line ups of the Supremes. I liked the Scherrie Payne albums and I ended up playing 5:30 plane and It's All Been Said Before every time I came home.

I noticed they performed All I Want live with Mary singing lead.


By the late eighties and early 90s it was Diana Ross' RCA Albums in the bargain bins, but they were then $2.99 bins.

[Bluebrock]

I quite like the album. But it's not a Supremes album. Nor a Motown album.

I play it to friends to watch their mouths drop open in disbelief that it is the Supremes.

I also suffer a similar reaction whenever i play it, and my mouth drops in disbelief with what i am hearing!

[honest man]

BORING- I threw it in the crapbag years ago with the Mary Wilson Dreamgirl trash rag,cheers.

[Bokiluis]

@Bokiluis - There was no official release of Webb in the nineties. You are probably thinking of Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop which was issued in 1994 around the same time as "Talk Of The Town." George Solomon wrote on the forum years ago that he tried to get clearances to release the Webb and later 70's Supremes albums in the early nineties but the higher ups said no to everything past Floy Joy except a maybe to "High Energy" - which we got along with Webb on the boxset. This is why the Stoned Love cheapie comp and the Greatest Hits & Rare Classics were so heavy on the post FJ material. There was no guarantee any of it would ever come out. As we know it took over a decade to get it from that point...

Sorry for the late response. I by no means am an expert on This Supremes '70s. However, I had a Tower Records account where I was able to buy virtually whatever I wanted. I confess to picking up so much that it wasn't difficult to lose track of what I already owned. As we all know, the Motown catalog titles had been reissued a number of times. I thought for certain that included "The Jimmy Webb" album. I've already expressed my appreciation of it. But I do confess to having stashed away The Supremes 70s catalog after a certain slightly offensive, slightly comical book was written by one of the members.
Though it is somewhat dangerous to admit on this forum, it isn't too difficult to understand that I remain a proud member of the Diana Ross Platinum Fan Club. [[Please refrain from any unnecessary shots. I am only expressing my opinion). However, I have faithfully supported the Supremes 70s releases, owning everyone of them.
Still, I defer to the people who have a clearer memory than I have. I continued to listen to "New Ways But Love Stays" and "Floy Joy" along with "the Jimmy Webb album". To that end, I stand corrected on that fact. It still remains one of my favorite albums though I empathize with those that feel both Mary and Lynda's [[or was it Cindy?'s vocals get lost in the gorgeous orchestration and production leading many to humorously refer to it as The Supreme Mormon Tabernacle Choir). Which I found even stranger since I liked the back cover studio shots where they look like serious artists at work on something special and unique.

[jobeterob]

When Can Brown Begin and 530 Plane were so good I thought but when the album peaked at about 156 and disappeared in a month and you had to special order it to get it in much of Canada - you knew the Suoremes were toast

In retrospect, they should have tried much harder to keep Jean and update the sound

But then there was Pedro maiming them

[Bluebrock]

When Can Brown Begin and 530 Plane were so good I thought but when the album peaked at about 156 and disappeared in a month and you had to special order it to get it in much of Canada - you knew the Suoremes were toast

In retrospect, they should have tried much harder to keep Jean and update the sound

But then there was Pedro maiming them

That would have been impossible. The relationship between Mary/Pedro and Jean had reached breaking point. Jean wanted out and it was easy enough to understand why. She was a difficult woman and she had just lost interest. Things had hit rock bottom in more than one way with this album. I just wish Stevie had produced a full album on them. It just might have kept this line up going for a couple more albums.

[Ollie9]

It's been really interesting reading fans different perspectives on this album.
I think there are some very beautiful songs on the album with touching lyrics. For me the problem is in Jeans voice. I find it so sharp and grating that i struggle to listen to more then two songs at a time. Perhaps if Mary had been given more leads on the album it might have softened and rounded it out a little more. This kind of material is certainly suited to her voice.
The front cover is the worst ever and must have hurt sales.

[jaybs]

Different people, different opinions, Jean's voice & vocal could never grate me, Mary? never see it is anything special, but have nothing against her, would still love to have the album on CD.