This Is JEAN TERRELL !!!

**captainjames** · 09-12-2010, 10:00 PM

I am a little confused right now after hearing Jean Terrell saying she was replaced without her knowledge and Mary Wilson saying she quit. Does anyone know what actually happen here ? was Jean Fired or did she Quit ??

topdiva1 · 09-13-2010, 08:40 AM

I believe Jean was threatening to quit big time - all the time - and with the bad blood boiling constantly between Mary and Jean plus the high handed ways off Pedro - Jean was replaced without her knowledge - and against good sense, at the time.

**marybrewster** · 09-13-2010, 09:04 AM

When/where did Jean say this? This is news to me.

**luke** · 09-13-2010, 09:13 AM

My understanding was Jean and Lynda wanted to leave Motown. Mary didnt. Jean called her and said she was leaving.

**Glenpwood** · 09-13-2010, 10:58 AM

I've understood the same thing Luke and that seems to be the same thing put forth by Marys book and the T.I.T.S box so I'm sure if Jean was canned Lynda would've come forward to back her up. Also, I believe Motown would've never stood for Mary firing the lead singer with whom they'd had success with up until the last year.

**luke** · 09-13-2010, 11:36 AM

Yes-and despite conflict, Mary has been clear saying she did not want Jean to leave. Perhaps in hindsight Jean wishes same thing.

**marybrewster** · 09-13-2010, 02:25 PM

I wonder why it took Jean 5 years to get a record released, after she left the Supremes.

**sup_fan** · 09-13-2010, 03:02 PM

motown was ready to retire the group at this point. they felt that there was some money to be made from the name "Supremes" after Diana left and they did. for 70 and most of 71, things were going pretty well on the charts and in public appearances. but by late 71 into 72 things were slipping. by 73, things were done. at least that's how Motown felt.

Jean had different viewpoints on what the group should/could be. DMC were certainly more in sync with the approach of the group. not saying M and C liked some of the choices made regarding Diana. but in terms of image and all, they were pretty much in line with one another - the whole glamor girl thing

Jean was NOT that type of a singer. she was always much more traditional R&b. less sequins, less pop. she also came into the group as an adult and an independent, confident, strong-willed one at that. essentially she was dropped into a group that was significantly based on image and glamor. the girls followed the company line, said what they should, didn't cause controversy, etc.

that's a significant part about why Berry wanted her out of the group. he could tell she wasn't necessarily a team player and wouldn't simply do everything and anything he asked without question

so by 72, as the hits dried up this magnified the personal differences between M and J. Cindy was now gone too so they had the added strain of incorporating yet another new girl into the group. Lynda was also a strong willed and opinionated person. so the personal discord continued and got worse. and the hits kept slipping away. So the girls started saying "let's jump from motown and go elsewhere"

it gets a bit fuzzy here. J and L have mentioned that they were all in agreement to leave and go elsewhere but that Mary backed out at last minute. Mary says they talked about it but she was apprehensive because of the name issue. things continued to decline - they had some bad reviews in early 73, they were grasping to find a show, lack of new material - so jean made the decision to leave.

lynda was pregnant at this time but the group direction was up in the air. pedro had now entered the picture and lynda went to Mary's house to meet with the two of them. she immediately recognized pedro as being nothing much more than a gigolo and decided she wanted nothing to do with that mess. plus things were in such disarray. motown was backing out, recording sessions were drying up, the steam was running out. Mary then went ahead and brough cindy back and got scherrie, in effect dismissing Lynda. although it doesn't seem she put up much of a fight at this point

motown was furious with Mary regarding this. they had hoped the group would disband and they'd be done with it. but the girls continued to tour and make appearances. basically out of their sheer determination and persistence they kept the group alive during this point. Berry sort of figured "what the hell - i owe it to mary. let's see if there's any audience left" so they started recording again and experimenting. but that's getting into another chapter, outside of this thread...

**luke** · 09-13-2010, 05:55 PM

Mary and Pedro were together in 1973??? Ive wondered about Jean's album too. When did she sign with A and M?

**dickiemint** · 09-13-2010, 06:04 PM

Yes by 73 The Supremes had their best times in the past, but there was still money to be made from the group, touring and the oldies circuit, the Supremes name alone then and to this day still earns money for Motown, the hits are still heard on the radio and tv in the UK, it is a brand and that is why music lovers still watch FLOs, souds of Supremes and other such shows, the hits are timeless and when performed by any of the surviving ladies they have that bit of authentisity, it would have been interesting to see if The Supremes could have gone on to say Atlantic or another label and had hits, where the Temps and Tops tried, failed and returned to Motown [[ although the Tops did have some hits on cassablanca).

**rod_rick** · 09-13-2010, 06:10 PM

Wasn't Cassablanca the 2nd label after Motown? Tops had hits Keeper of the Castle, & Catfish I think it was on ABC or Dunhill right after departing from Motown the first time. The real ha ha is that the only Supremes that didn't leave the group was Scherrie Payne & Susaye Greene. All the others were either fired, left or quit.

**Glenpwood** · 09-13-2010, 06:18 PM

Jean's album came out at a point when A&M was struggling to define itself amongst the onslaught of disco. They were also struggling due to it's roster of Superstars not delivering their projected album sales [[see Carpenters, Captain & Tennille) or artists who's previous albums had been huge but didn't maintain on their follow ups [[Peter Frampton, Rita Coolidge). They did try to go hip in this period by signing The Police and [[briefly) the Sex Pistols at the expense of not pushing some of the previously mentioned acts so Jean's album would've been a low priority even if she had agreed to promote it the way A&M requested. By the way what did they ask that was so objectionable to her religious beliefs?

topdiva1 · 09-13-2010, 06:38 PM

Sup_fan

Thanks for a well written and great post - you brought it all home.

**luke** · 09-13-2010, 07:58 PM

I think some of what was written in other posts may be possibilities not necessarily actuality. I guess Jean should write a book! I thought her album was a letdown though she could probably sing the yellow pages and Id listen!

**daviddh** · 09-13-2010, 08:36 PM

around 1973, motown closed down it's detroit location and moved everything to LA. many artists didnt want to go and left including the Four Tops who went on to DUNHILL. the TOPS tried to convince Mary to take the Supremes there as well but Mary backed out at the last minute over ownership of the name Supremes. at this time motown was going to issue a hits album called GOLD featuring hits up to this point[73] but it was cancelled along with a Diana hits [gold ]collection.

**sup_fan** · 09-13-2010, 09:29 PM

i will state that i was not there so i'm not saying my posts are gospel. I have tried to read and learn as much as i can about the group from books, websites, talking with fans/people that were there. hopefully by piecing things together from every source, it's a relatively accurate and balanced view of things. of course the only ones that know what was going on in the Supremes are the Supremes. and each of the 3 girls would have had different view points on it.

**robbert** · 09-13-2010, 09:55 PM

"...after hearing Jean Terrell saying she was replaced without her knowledge and Mary Wilson saying she quit."

These are the two main questions.
Did Jean say so [[replaced without her knowledge) and if so, where and when did she say this? Name source, please! Post full quotes!

Did Mary say Jean quit? Where and when did she say this? Name source, please! Post full quotes!

We should take our historical responsibilties by stating FACTS as opposed to hearsay, rumours and speculations.

Amen.

**luke** · 09-13-2010, 10:03 PM

"Jean called me and said she was leaving." Supreme Faith by Mary Wilson

**sup_fan** · 09-13-2010, 11:59 PM

I hadn't ever really heard about jean being "surprised" about leaving the group. she was clearly unhappy with the situation. in her dvd, she also states this and alludes to mary wanting to leave with her and lynda. but then backs out

**jillfoster** · 09-14-2010, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Glenpwood

By the way what did they ask that was so objectionable to her religious beliefs?

Who knows... Jehova's witnesses object to the damn sky being blue.

**marybrewster** · 09-14-2010, 12:40 AM

An interview with Cindy Birdsong, from Goldmine Magazine:

GM: When did you return to The Supremes?

CB: In late 1973, when my son David was a toddler. Jean and Lynda had left the group and Mary said, "Come back! I need you right now!" We auditioned about 40 ladies to replace Jean at Mary's home in Vegas, but nobody was right. Then Lamont Dozier of Holland-Dozier-Holland told us there was a girl that he dated who was beautiful and had a great voice. "Her name is Scherrie Payne and she used to be with [the group] Glass House." My husband and I picked Scherrie up at the airport and our first reaction was "She's so little!" But she was a blessing to The Supremes because her voice was so phenomenal.

topdiva1 · 09-14-2010, 02:55 AM

Cindy Birdsong is just a sweetheart, to this very day.

**luke** · 09-14-2010, 11:26 AM

I believe in that article Cindy also referred to Lynda as a sub for her.

jonc · 09-14-2010, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I believe in that article Cindy also referred to Lynda as a sub for her.

You just can't help yourself from bashing Lynda Laurence every chance you get. Whether you like it or not Lynda Laurence was a fully bona fide Motown signed Supreme.

**simplysupreme** · 09-14-2010, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by jonc

You just can't help yourself from bashing Lynda Laurence every chance you get. Whether you like it or not Lynda Laurence was a fully bona fide Motown signed Supreme.

Amen! It's SO tired. Never mind the fact that Mary Wilson wrote in Supreme Faith that when Cindy left, she had no intention of returning.

**marybrewster** · 09-14-2010, 01:18 PM

Sub or not, Miss Lynda certainly was a Supreme. It would seem to me though that if Lynda did have a Motown contract, that she wasn't just a sub? Does anyone know, by this time, were the Supremes signing individual contracts, or was it a "group" thing?

**luke** · 09-14-2010, 02:05 PM

Stop trying to start conflict and drama. Just reporting on info as this thread is talking about Jean and Lynda leaving. Just ignore it if you like.

topdiva1 · 09-14-2010, 10:52 PM

What is Jean Terrell doing these days.

**jobeterob** · 09-15-2010, 02:21 AM

Midnite Johnny did a lengthy interview with Jean in the last couple of years; I think I posted a link to it on SD. It is possibly archived somewhere online.

However, I know that it caused dissension and disagreement because people didn't like everything Jean said; I know that she was surprised at some of the information that some people want to quote as "fact"; my recollection is she had no idea, didn't care, was totally surprised at some of what is "critical information" to some fans.

It's kind of like these lines about Lynda's possible position in the Supremes; in fact, that might be something Jean was asked about; her response to some of those things was akin to being told something and having no idea anyone even cared about it.

So, it wasn't liked by everyone.

I thought it was great to hear, just like his interviews with Susaye and Scherrie.

I think if anything, Jean wonders how she could have sang on those hits, be so cherished by some fans but attacked by others, and be left rubbing a couple of nickels together after all was said and done.

topdiva1 · 09-15-2010, 10:38 AM

Thank you for this insight - I did listen to that article - the fans as I well known can come against you if you shatter the illusion that they perceive or need to be fact - for fans to come against Jean Terrell, as they have with every star, is no surprise - however I for one and many others will come to her defense - Jean seems a no nonsense type of person - who in fact did not care about all the tiny little things that some fans rage one about - when in truth they know nothing about - for the most part never even seen this performers live - or met them -

It takes all kinds.

**captainjames** · 09-17-2010, 08:36 AM

So, I am still not sure if Jean resigned, or if she was replaced without her knowledge or if her contract just ran out. Since it was around 1974 I am going to go with the contract ran out and there was no renewal. Yeah that sounds good for now.

topdiva1 · 09-17-2010, 12:10 PM

I think that Mary and Pedro really wanted to dump Jean and Lynda - so they did. Jean and Lynda had become a thorn in Mary's side - they both thought that Mary could not sing as well as they could, and perhaps, being the only original left in the group, had been there too long herself. Pedro who had much control over Mary and not wanting his payday to end - did what players do and got rid of the dead weight "LADIES", and put Cindy and Scherrie in - who he thought he could easily control. WRONG!!!!

But I'm just guessing.

**bradsupremes** · 09-17-2010, 12:44 PM

If Jean was extremely unhappy by 1973 with Motown and the group, I cannot see how she would have stuck around. Why would you stick around if you were that unhappy? It's pretty clear that Jean left the group. I doubt Mary replaced her without Jean's knowledge. Jean made it pretty clear she was done with the group and left. I can't see Jean wanting to stick around and stay.

topdiva1 · 09-17-2010, 12:52 PM

Jean was under contract and could not have just walked out. Or could she have???

**sup_fan** · 09-17-2010, 12:56 PM

from what i understand, jean asked to be released from her contract with the supremes. motown was like "great - we can retire the group and move on." i don't believe she was replaced w/o her knowledge. she was done with mary, done with motown and ready to leave.

**reese** · 09-17-2010, 12:58 PM

In her second book, Mary wrote that Jean informed her that she was about to ask Berry for her contract back. I assumed that meant she was asking to be released.

**captainjames** · 09-17-2010, 02:03 PM

That seems to make a bit more sense but I would love to hear more from what Jean has to say. I believe I read that Mary and Pedro met with Lynda after Jean left to make sure she knew what the deal was or to ask her to Lead the Supremes because at this time Mary and Pedro didn't have another girl in mind. I think I know now what happen with DMF so the mystery seems to be for me with JML. I guess it would have been too much to ask for Florence to come back at this time and have her share the lead with Mary.

topdiva1 · 09-17-2010, 07:08 PM

In looking at the history of The Supremes - the return of Flo Ballard could habe given them the excitement that they needed - however Diana would have seen this as a slap in the face. Maybe or maybe not.

**captainjames** · 09-17-2010, 08:33 PM

I am not sure how Diana felt about who was in the Supremes at the time or if she really cared. I do know that she was glad that she was out of the group. Having Florence come back would have been a welcome treat for the fans and if not Flo at least Mary taking the lead mic. When Jean left [[be it quit or fired) I felt sorta betrayed and shocked.....

..............What ??? she is Leaving ?
.............No she is gone !!!
Why ?
Don't know I think she wants to raise a family !!!

The Supremes seem to vanish after this for a while and the fans sort of drifted too. Jean was gone and Lynda was gone.

smark21 · 09-17-2010, 09:57 PM

Having Flo return to the Supremes in 1973 after Jean and Lynda left would have been a fiasco given the state of her life at that point.

topdiva1 · 09-18-2010, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by smark21

Having Flo return to the Supremes in 1973 after Jean and Lynda left would have been a fiasco given the state of her life at that point.

But - could it not have helped her turn around her life again - and what do you really know about the real state of her life - please share those facts with us all.

**arrr&bee** · 09-18-2010, 03:33 PM

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa,stop it i'm on the floor..haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

**sup_fan** · 09-18-2010, 03:40 PM

there are multiple sources that state that after her 70 or 71 suit against berry, diana, the sups and motown was thrown out of court by the judge she really slipped into a bad state of mind. they even state that she didn't leave her house for an extended period of time. mentally, vocally and physically she was in no position to rejoin the group. assuming motown would EVER have allowed it. they wanted the group retired and only half heartedly allowed mary to continue with scherrie and cindy. had mary brought flo back to motown, berry would have reacted just like he did when Mary brought flo to his house for that party. they both would have been escorted out!

**captainjames** · 09-18-2010, 05:24 PM

Sup Fan
Mr. Gordy kind of escored them out with Jean as he moved away to LA and he was shocked when Mary brought in Scherrie and Susaye so I don't think it would have been any more or any less love with Flo.

**captainjames** · 09-18-2010, 05:34 PM

I loved all the ladies and have met each one except Barbara and they have talent unmeasurable to anyone. Each Supreme that came aboard seem to have something extra and added to the legend, however no one worked that stage like Diana.

Berry wanted control and he lost it when Mary denied him his change. Mary should have requested a meeting with Jean, Cindy and Berry before saying NO. I am not sure Jean even knew that Berry changed his mind about her until later on down the line.

I was able to confirm that Jean wanted to move away from Motown at one time and Mary was going to go along with it but changed her mind at the last minute.

**midnightman** · 09-18-2010, 07:05 PM

Jean left on her own.

topdiva1 · 09-19-2010, 01:51 PM

The decision to go with Jean from day one - and keep her, most likely had nothing to do with Mary Wilson. The fact that Gordy reportedly wanted to replace her has never been spoken of by Gordy. So who knows if it is actually true - just because Mary Wilson said so - it ain't necessarily so.

**captainjames** · 09-19-2010, 05:34 PM

I think Cindy Birdsong has been quoted as even saying that Syreeta Wright was brought up as a replacement for Diana but, Mary and her had issues with Syreeta at the time. Mary may have added to the conversation with her and Berry but there seem to some truth to it.

topdiva1 · 09-19-2010, 05:48 PM

I do recall that Gordy wanted Syreeta - was there also a mention of Tammi Terrell replacing Diana as well. Mary had very little if any power at making decisions like this and Cindy even less - However, Sup_fan is most likely right about the Flo thing - Gordy more than likely would have slammed the door on Mary, Cindy, and the attitude of Flo - who was likely as bitter as ever by that time.

**sup_fan** · 09-19-2010, 07:02 PM

cindy has also brought up the story about Berry wanting to drop Jean but Cin and Mar fighting for her. Berry doesn't it bring it up but, frankly, doesn't bring up much at all in reference to the 70s Sups. in "To Be Loved" there are about 2 sentences talking about their hits Up the Ladder and Stoned Love. and that's it.