Jean Terrell and Motown

[marv2]

Around the time of the Take Me Higher album release and subsequent tour a local talk jock, mostly a political format with some entertainment features, was interviewing Diana Ross on her upcoming local appearance...he told her his favorite Supremes song was "Stoned Love"...she responded that it wasn't her record and that he didn't "do his homework"...he replied that it was right there on the list of Supremes songs and it didn't state it wasn't recorded by Diana Ross...ironically, she replied that it was recorded by her replacement "Scherrie Terrell" but she stammered and realized she didn't have the name correct but couldn't seem to recall the name "Jean"!!!...so if she can't get her own history correct how can she expect someone on the periphery to grasp every detail...and how can we expect every DJ to know the details of every group or record they are told to play by their programmers... maybe we can allow them the occasional slip of the tongue or foggy memory recall...

I don't mind the slips by DJs these days...so many years have gone by for it to make that much of a difference...if they at least identify it as The Supremes and/or Diana Ross then at least they're in the right ball park...I get more annoyed by The Vandellas and Marvelettes mix-ups...of course, I don't even know the difference between a Crystal and a Chiffon...I hang my head in shame...

She's done that before. Pretend that she could not remember Jean Terrell's name. It was on a British talk show in 1996 when asked about what went wrong for the Supremes and Diane replied that she did not know. She said, while grinning, that they had "Terrell" and everything so she just doesn't know what happened to them! It was all fake.

[marv2]

Motown wanted the Supremes to continue but as Marv mentioned yesterday they became an expensive commodity . They didn't write their own songs so required talented songwriters and producers to give them good quality material as opposed to the likes of Marvin and Stevie who were self sufficient and making huge amounts of money for the label. As far as Diana was concerned they wanted to steer her more towards the movie/ Broadway area as a black Streisand. She herself told me this. Sure they wanted her to sell records but it was just one of several areas where they could make money out of her, but the Supremes did not have this luxury to fall back on, and with the hostility continuing between Mary and Jean [[and later Lynda) some Motown execs felt they were not getting a return on their investment and had no objections to the girls departing Motown . Jean and Lynda wanted to go but Mary knew she couldn't take the name with them so she opted to stay put which was the final straw for Jean who then quit.
It all but destroyed the group because legal wrangles ensured the group could not enter the studio for two years, and the group never fully recovered, so if anyone was responsible for killing the Supremes i would have to agree with you David that Mary was indeed at least parcially responsible for this.
Prepare for the fall out..............

You have one big important part of this wrong. During this time Lynda Lawrence was cutting up and making waves to the point that it became noticeable to people at Motown outside of the Supremes. When word got out that the group may be looking to leave Motown, Motown Execs were livid! I mean they were mad as Hell. I remember all of this. This why they came up with the "Mary y'all can leave, but the name stays HERE!" line of defense. They went further and said that Jean and the others owed them money for general services associated with their careers as Supremes. They had Cindy Birdsong sign away her royalties and negate her "expenses" owed to Motown for a lump sum of $100,000! Mary could not have possibly been responsible for killing off the Supremes. She was reactionary. The Supremes were her life's blood at that time.

[marv2]

Hah! This happened at the last Supremes convention held at the Motown Cafe in New York City. The DJ there announced it as Diana Ross & The Supremes!

I was there. I don't remember that much other that Betty Kelly telling me all kind of stuff LOL! I miss the Motown Cafe and their sampler plate! LOL!!!

[marv2]

as long as Ross was signed to Motown, Gordy wasn't letting go of that name,as it was linked to her even though she had been out for a decade, and he wasn't going to allow control of it elsewhere.. when she split for RCA in 1980, well, that's another story..

He was sad for a moment. He was extremely angry too for a good long time after she did that.

[Jimi LaLumia]

and Marv, I have leaned to circumnavigate the LIE! enuf to drive you insane! Happy New Year, Happy 2016 to you..

[midnightman]

Diana knew what was going on, she just chose to act like she had no idea what was going on. That is a classic Ross trait right there.

[REDHOT]

To this day Scherrie Payne,don't get royalties,because they[[motown)say she still owe them money,from The Supremes days smh

[marv2]

and Marv, I have leaned to circumnavigate the LIE! enuf to drive you insane! Happy New Year, Happy 2016 to you..

Take the back roads right? Happy New Year buddy! I wished I were in Montauk! LOL

[marv2]

Diana knew what was going on, she just chose to act like she had no idea what was going on. That is a classic Ross trait right there.

Of course she knew what was going on. There are some things I could tell that would disappoint a number of people. But.......Happy New Year Y'all LOL!

[marv2]

To this day Scherrie Payne,don't get royalties,because they[[motown)say she still owe them money,from The Supremes days smh

They tried that with Jean Terrell until she sued them in 1994.

[luke]

One of the Motown books said I think it was cholly Atkins who spoke to Mary about Lynda and said Mary needed to do something about her behavior which Marv referred to above.

[thommg]

I was there. I don't remember that much other that Betty Kelly telling me all kind of stuff LOL! I miss the Motown Cafe and their sampler plate! LOL!!!

I was also there, Marv. And the funny thing was, it wasn't even the original recording, it was a new remix of the FLOS version.

And Betty Kelly getting onstage there with the "Vandellas" and showing them how the choreography was supposed to be done was a highlight of the day!

[BayouMotownMan]

It's amazing to me how this subject keeps coming up and so many "experts" knowing what happened and how much money a Supreme received.

I interviewed Jean several times, particularly in 1978 when she gave me a two hour interview. She spoke candidly but guardedly about Motown.

I think it safe to say nobody could have inherited Diana Ross's position with the most famous female group of all time without having great difficulties. As Jean said, The Supremes image was, and still is, DIANA'S image. When the average Joe thinks of the Supremes they think of her [[like it or not) with two other girls. As was the case with the Miracles, both groups had hit records without their famous lead singers but never did either group recapture the level of popularity they previously had.

Jean went into the Supremes somewhat reluctantly. She was totally happy singing with Ernie and working sporadically enough to be able to have a personal life. She was not equipped for the throngs of fans pulling on her and demanding her time after a show. She felt her job was to sing as well as she could and then be allowed to go home. Rightly or wrongly, it was the way she felt.

Going into 71 and 72, Motown was having a hard time with all the classic groups from the 60s, as the self-contained artists were emerging [[Marvin, Smokey, Stevie). There just came a time when the Supremes needed far too much investment from Motown for the returns that were given. Jean also said music was changing and Motown was constantly keeping them in the 3 minute uptempo teen love songs. When the group approached serious music, like Jimmy Webb and Stevie, not only did Motown dislike the material, but the public didn't as well.

Jean Terrell was wise enough, or difficult enough whichever you may chose, to know that The Supremes were winding down. More than anything she met the man she wanted to marry and have a family with and no longer would she tour for 50 weeks a yr. She loved to sing, yes, but she had the business behind it all.

When she left the FLOs in 1992, the reasons were similar. She saw that whatever successes they would have would be limited. This was a full two years before Mary made issue of the name. Jean just didn't want to travel anymore.

[BayouMotownMan]

Jean did not go through with the suit

[BayouMotownMan]

It was no act, Diana Ross was not involved in the 70s Supremes. She had a busy career and three kids and only sporadically spoke to Mary. She attended a fundraiser the Supremes hosted in 1975 as they launched the He's My Man album. She went to bat for Mary with Berry Gordy in 1978 by requesting a Supremes without Mary be shot down and it was.

[Bluebrock]

It's amazing to me how this subject keeps coming up and so many "experts" knowing what happened and how much money a Supreme received.

I interviewed Jean several times, particularly in 1978 when she gave me a two hour interview. She spoke candidly but guardedly about Motown.

I think it safe to say nobody could have inherited Diana Ross's position with the most famous female group of all time without having great difficulties. As Jean said, The Supremes image was, and still is, DIANA'S image. When the average Joe thinks of the Supremes they think of her [[like it or not) with two other girls. As was the case with the Miracles, both groups had hit records without their famous lead singers but never did either group recapture the level of popularity they previously had.

Jean went into the Supremes somewhat reluctantly. She was totally happy singing with Ernie and working sporadically enough to be able to have a personal life. She was not equipped for the throngs of fans pulling on her and demanding her time after a show. She felt her job was to sing as well as she could and then be allowed to go home. Rightly or wrongly, it was the way she felt.

Going into 71 and 72, Motown was having a hard time with all the classic groups from the 60s, as the self-contained artists were emerging [[Marvin, Smokey, Stevie). There just came a time when the Supremes needed far too much investment from Motown for the returns that were given. Jean also said music was changing and Motown was constantly keeping them in the 3 minute uptempo teen love songs. When the group approached serious music, like Jimmy Webb and Stevie, not only did Motown dislike the material, but the public didn't as well.

Jean Terrell was wise enough, or difficult enough whichever you may chose, to know that The Supremes were winding down. More than anything she met the man she wanted to marry and have a family with and no longer would she tour for 50 weeks a yr. She loved to sing, yes, but she had the business behind it all.

When she left the FLOs in 1992, the reasons were similar. She saw that whatever successes they would have would be limited. This was a full two years before Mary made issue of the name. Jean just didn't want to travel anymore.

Excellent summary. Jean knew only too well that the Supremes most successful days were behind them. People always portray her as difficult whilst other people also involved at the time are regarded as perfect and hard done by. Those in the know are aware of this was not the case at all. Brilliant post BayouMotownman.

[marv2]

I was also there, Marv. And the funny thing was, it wasn't even the original recording, it was a new remix of the FLOS version.

And Betty Kelly getting onstage there with the "Vandellas" and showing them how the choreography was supposed to be done was a highlight of the day!

thommg, I remember Betty doing that with the girls from Motown Cafe. Mary's videotaped greetings to everyone; I remember talking with Lynda and Scherrie Payne and Lynda's mom who was from a part of Philly I use to live in. Frances Nero was there also now that I think about it.

[marv2]

Jean did not go through with the suit

That's because they settled and I know they settled with her.

[marv2]

It was no act, Diana Ross was not involved in the 70s Supremes. She had a busy career and three kids and only sporadically spoke to Mary. She attended a fundraiser the Supremes hosted in 1975 as they launched the He's My Man album. She went to bat for Mary with Berry Gordy in 1978 by requesting a Supremes without Mary be shot down and it was.

It was an act whenever she pretended not to remember Jean Terrell's name same as it was during RTL when she would get up on TV and lie and say shit like "Jean Terrell asked her if it would be ok if she came out on stage during the tour and maybe sing while I [[Diana) changed........" There is no way in the hell you are going to get me to believe that she even talked to Jean Terrell about any of that. Jean was highly insulted when she, Susaye Greene and Cindy Birdsong were asked to audition for the tour. I believe Scherrie and Lynda also had to audition!

[Roberta75]

It's amazing to me how this subject keeps coming up and so many "experts" knowing what happened and how much money a Supreme received.

I interviewed Jean several times, particularly in 1978 when she gave me a two hour interview. She spoke candidly but guardedly about Motown.

I think it safe to say nobody could have inherited Diana Ross's position with the most famous female group of all time without having great difficulties. As Jean said, The Supremes image was, and still is, DIANA'S image. When the average Joe thinks of the Supremes they think of her [[like it or not) with two other girls. As was the case with the Miracles, both groups had hit records without their famous lead singers but never did either group recapture the level of popularity they previously had.

Jean went into the Supremes somewhat reluctantly. She was totally happy singing with Ernie and working sporadically enough to be able to have a personal life. She was not equipped for the throngs of fans pulling on her and demanding her time after a show. She felt her job was to sing as well as she could and then be allowed to go home. Rightly or wrongly, it was the way she felt.

Going into 71 and 72, Motown was having a hard time with all the classic groups from the 60s, as the self-contained artists were emerging [[Marvin, Smokey, Stevie). There just came a time when the Supremes needed far too much investment from Motown for the returns that were given. Jean also said music was changing and Motown was constantly keeping them in the 3 minute uptempo teen love songs. When the group approached serious music, like Jimmy Webb and Stevie, not only did Motown dislike the material, but the public didn't as well.

Jean Terrell was wise enough, or difficult enough whichever you may chose, to know that The Supremes were winding down. More than anything she met the man she wanted to marry and have a family with and no longer would she tour for 50 weeks a yr. She loved to sing, yes, but she had the business behind it all.

When she left the FLOs in 1992, the reasons were similar. She saw that whatever successes they would have would be limited. This was a full two years before Mary made issue of the name. Jean just didn't want to travel anymore.

Thank you for being the voice of reason and for providing facts and accurate information instead of real biased hearsay and untruth.

happy New a Year.

Fondlty

Roberta

[midnightman]

To this day Scherrie Payne,don't get royalties,because they[[motown)say she still owe them money,from The Supremes days smh

WOW! I shouldn't be surprised by that but sadly I am... I know the industry does lots of folks dirty but the way the Supremes got treated should be criminal.

[midnightman]

It was an act whenever she pretended not to remember Jean Terrell's name same as it was during RTL when she would get up on TV and lie and say shit like "Jean Terrell asked her if it would be ok if she came out on stage during the tour and maybe sing while I [[Diana) changed........" There is no way in the hell you are going to get me to believe that she even talked to Jean Terrell about any of that. Jean was highly insulted when she, Susaye Greene and Cindy Birdsong were asked to audition for the tour. I believe Scherrie and Lynda also had to audition!

They were told to audition??? WHAT?! I never heard that before. Come on Diana...smh

And that "sing while I change" mess... ugh... I'm starting to really get why Mary backed off and possibly told the others to not even try it... it should've been a GROUP effort if Diana wanted all of them there!

[midnightman]

That's because they settled and I know they settled with her.

Did they say how much they settled or was it undisclosed?

[marv2]

Did they say how much they settled or was it undisclosed?

It was undisclosed as with most monetary legal settlements.

[marv2]

They were told to audition??? WHAT?! I never heard that before. Come on Diana...smh

And that "sing while I change" mess... ugh... I'm starting to really get why Mary backed off and possibly told the others to not even try it... it should've been a GROUP effort if Diana wanted all of them there!

Yeah, they were told to come to a specified location in order to audition to be Supremes! Can you believe that shit? They were asked to audition to be who they already had been! Ask Susaye, she can verify this. Diana Ross said those things and other idiotic things like we the public were complete fools. I wished I could upload all of the local NYC reports and comments they took from people on the street that day of the big Grand Central Station press conference. I was a bit surprised that it was such a huge story, so huge that KISS -FM shut down normal programming for 2 hours to have an open mic for folks to call in and discuss that mess RTL! LOL

[luke]

I remember that on the radio. Believe me people did not think Miss Ross was the Supremes and they sure knew Mary and Cindys names. Don't listen to the so called experts who want to ignore these facts. Jean was so smart to not join Diana on stage. She had too much self respect. And I believe Susaye said she was never called back after "auditioning" ..and with her voice! I guess scherrie and Lynn were waiting in the wings! How insulting. Diana should have had to audition. Oh yes! Ditto Marv per all the articles by ny press. Tons of outraged articles.. And Jean and the vandellas who joined their suits Together and Motown settled with them.

[daviddh]

I think I remember Susaye being told that she was NOT a back up singer but Lynda dna Scherrie were????

[marv2]

I think I remember Susaye being told that she was NOT a back up singer but Lynda dna Scherrie were????

How much sense does that make to you? When Susaye recorded for Motown, she sang background. She had the talent to sing background and lead.

[marv2]

I remember that on the radio. Believe me people did not think Miss Ross was the Supremes and they sure knew Mary and Cindys names. Don't listen to the so called experts who want to ignore these facts. Jean was so smart to not join Diana on stage. She had too much self respect. And I believe Susaye said she was never called back after "auditioning" ..and with her voice! I guess scherrie and Lynn were waiting in the wings! How insulting. Diana should have had to audition. Oh yes! Ditto Marv per all the articles by ny press. Tons of outraged articles.. And Jean and the vandellas who joined their suits Together and Motown settled with them.

The kicker is today, Diana Ross has the weakest voice of all of them. I wished things had worked out now especially for Cindy Birdsong's sake, but I guess that was not a thought to greedy people.

[REDHOT]

As i said many times,Jean Terrell is a moody person,some times shes up,and some times shes down,no one has time,for her moods,it's call Show Business,and the show must go on,so when she join Former Ladies Of The Supremes,i knew it wouldn't last.Jean is not a Show Biz girl,that why she left the business,and didn't look back,it had nothing to do with Motown Mary or any of the other Supremes,trust me,Jean would have left The Supremes even if they had lots of hit records.it's a fantasy if you think Motown or Mary or any of the other Supremes made Jean unhappy,remember Berry Gordy changed his mind about Jean,being a Supreme,and Mary put her foot down,and told him,Jean stays,and Jean turned on Mary,with Lynda Laurence,Jean Terrell going solo,was a no no,Jean had the voice,to be a big star,but you got to have the drive,to go with it,her album Had To Fall In Love,i loved it,because i'm a fan,but Jean wouldn't promote it,again moody,plus she never finish the album,the producer was not happy with Jean,so he had to finish with what he had,these are fact's, Jean Terrell had a great body of work,with The Supremes,no matter what.

[luke]

Diana Riss is probably the most mercurial person in show business but they had to put up with her moods Maybe they were burnt out!

[Bluebrock]

As i said many times,Jean Terrell is a moody person,some times shes up,and some times shes down,no one has time,for her moods,it's call Show Business,and the show must go on,so when she join Former Ladies Of The Supremes,i knew it wouldn't last.Jean is not a Show Biz girl,that why she left the business,and didn't look back,it had nothing to do with Motown Mary or any of the other Supremes,trust me,Jean would have left The Supremes even if they had lots of hit records.it's a fantasy if you think Motown or Mary or any of the other Supremes made Jean unhappy,remember Berry Gordy changed his mind about Jean,being a Supreme,and Mary put her foot down,and told him,Jean stays,and Jean turned on Mary,with Lynda Laurence,Jean Terrell going solo,was a no no,Jean had the voice,to be a big star,but you got to have the drive,to go with it,her album Had To Fall In Love,i loved it,because i'm a fan,but Jean wouldn't promote it,again moody,plus she never finish the album,the producer was not happy with Jean,so he had to finish with what he had,these are fact's, Jean Terrell had a great body of work,with The Supremes,no matter what.

It is true to say that Jean was not a "natural" star. She did not crave the limelight and in fact probably detested it. Yes she could be difficult and moody but all the problems were not caused soley by Jean. From information provided by a well placed source it is true to say Jean would have left the Supremes whatever happened, but she would have stayed for a 2/3 years longer. Alas it was not meant to be, but as you say she left us with a great body of work.

[REDHOT]

Detest,is a good word for it,but 2 0r 3 years,would have been a life time for Jean,plus Jean and Lynda turn into Jehovah Witness's ,and that made it even worst,she wanted out of The Supremes,out from Motown,and for the most part,out of show business,nothing could stop Jean,you see Supreme singer's like Mary Diana Scherrie Lynda and Susaye, loves Show business,they have the drive,that's why they are still singing today,they have the drive,to still be in the game,The Supremes music is Forever.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I love the Jean records, but if she didn't like 'show biz'.she shouldn't hasve joined THE SUPREMES..unless she lived in a cave somewhere, everyone knew what THE SUPREMES meant.. If she thought Berry Gordy was going to conform to her standards and ideas, well someone should have told her she was nuts.. In my opinion, Jean is FANTASTIC on record, but on stage, not so much, not for what the group's audience had come to expect..

[Bluebrock]

I love the Jean records, but if she didn't like 'show biz'.she shouldn't hasve joined THE SUPREMES..unless she lived in a cave somewhere, everyone knew what THE SUPREMES meant.. If she thought Berry Gordy was going to conform to her standards and ideas, well someone should have told her she was nuts.. In my opinion, Jean is FANTASTIC on record, but on stage, not so much, not for what the group's audience had come to expect..

I don't think Jean grasped just how intense it would be to replace Diana. Being on the road for almost every week of the year didn't suit her either. In hindsight perhaps it was a mistake to join the Supremes but we the listener would be far poorer had she not done so. Life can be full of regrets. At least she gave it a go,

[daviddh]

bottom line Jean led Supremes gave us some good singles and a few good albums.even some of the lp cuts such as SHINE ON ME were really good

[johnjeb]

I love the Jean records, but if she didn't like 'show biz'.she shouldn't hasve joined THE SUPREMES..unless she lived in a cave somewhere, everyone knew what THE SUPREMES meant.. If she thought Berry Gordy was going to conform to her standards and ideas, well someone should have told her she was nuts.. In my opinion, Jean is FANTASTIC on record, but on stage, not so much, not for what the group's audience had come to expect..

I totally agree.

[marv2]

I love the Jean records, but if she didn't like 'show biz'.she shouldn't hasve joined THE SUPREMES..unless she lived in a cave somewhere, everyone knew what THE SUPREMES meant.. If she thought Berry Gordy was going to conform to her standards and ideas, well someone should have told her she was nuts.. In my opinion, Jean is FANTASTIC on record, but on stage, not so much, not for what the group's audience had come to expect..

According to Jean in her video bio, she dreamed of being a Supreme and dressing like them, playing the top places. I think once reality set in, it all changed for her.

You know the old saying? "If you want to enjoy the show, then don't go backstage to see what they have to do to get ready...." LOL!!!

[marv2]

Detest,is a good word for it,but 2 0r 3 years,would have been a life time for Jean,plus Jean and Lynda turn into Jehovah Witness's ,and that made it even worst,she wanted out of The Supremes,out from Motown,and for the most part,out of show business,nothing could stop Jean,you see Supreme singer's like Mary Diana Scherrie Lynda and Susaye, loves Show business,they have the drive,that's why they are still singing today,they have the drive,to still be in the game,The Supremes music is Forever.

The worst thing as far as the Jean Terrell situation that could have happened is Lynda Laurence! She was a "co-signer" and most of all an opportunist! The more unhappy Jean became, the more chance that Lynda might get to sing lead [[in her mind!). Mary didn't see that right away, but Motown sure did! Some assumed that the thought of the Supremes leaving the company did not arise until Ms. Laurence came along............

[sup_fan]

i think there was a whole culmination of events that lead to the gradual demise of the Supremes in the 70s.

the most important though come down to 1) the group HAD to continue at least a little while after D went solo so that it wouldn't make it look like she forced them into retirement while she continues on and 2) NO ONE at motown was going to outshine diana. Berry was totally devoted to her and only her. there could only be 1 queen at motown. he quickly saw how she'd developed and grew within the early years of the Sups and post WDOLG. because of that, he invested in the group with the idea that he was ultimately investing in her.

Berry also had business sense and knew there was a lot of money yet to made under the Sup name. they sold a lot of records, commanded top performance fees and made a great return for 70 and 71.

things started to slip a bit though in 71 and definitely into 72. again, a variety of factors:
1. the move to LA
2. berry's focus on movies
3. Cindy's departure and another lineup change
4. the Sups image starting to become outdated - they were singing Cabaret, TCB, It's Alright With Me. still very much a Vegas act and becoming less and less relevant to the college age music buyers.
5. internal dissent - of course if the above issues weren't happening, perhaps the girls would have been fighting less.
6. poor selling albums and modestly charting singles - multiple issues here. yes i think motown made a mistake with the packaging of NWBLS and the label copy of Stoned Love. Touch should never have been a single. in the 60s, Berry was heavily involved with the group's releases and usually only the best was issued. plus company efforts were redirected to push each release. in the 70s, that wasn't happening as much. also i think the 4 Top duets created overkill. too many records, too many things going on, not enough focus. i love the recordings but 1 lp should have sufficed and frankly it should have been timed better. maybe the following year or something

[Bluebrock]

i think there was a whole culmination of events that lead to the gradual demise of the Supremes in the 70s.

the most important though come down to 1) the group HAD to continue at least a little while after D went solo so that it wouldn't make it look like she forced them into retirement while she continues on and 2) NO ONE at motown was going to outshine diana. Berry was totally devoted to her and only her. there could only be 1 queen at motown. he quickly saw how she'd developed and grew within the early years of the Sups and post WDOLG. because of that, he invested in the group with the idea that he was ultimately investing in her.

Berry also had business sense and knew there was a lot of money yet to made under the Sup name. they sold a lot of records, commanded top performance fees and made a great return for 70 and 71.

things started to slip a bit though in 71 and definitely into 72. again, a variety of factors:
1. the move to LA
2. berry's focus on movies
3. Cindy's departure and another lineup change
4. the Sups image starting to become outdated - they were singing Cabaret, TCB, It's Alright With Me. still very much a Vegas act and becoming less and less relevant to the college age music buyers.
5. internal dissent - of course if the above issues weren't happening, perhaps the girls would have been fighting less.
6. poor selling albums and modestly charting singles - multiple issues here. yes i think motown made a mistake with the packaging of NWBLS and the label copy of Stoned Love. Touch should never have been a single. in the 60s, Berry was heavily involved with the group's releases and usually only the best was issued. plus company efforts were redirected to push each release. in the 70s, that wasn't happening as much. also i think the 4 Top duets created overkill. too many records, too many things going on, not enough focus. i love the recordings but 1 lp should have sufficed and frankly it should have been timed better. maybe the following year or something

I agree on several things here. there is NO WAY that "touch" was ever a major hit single. Totally wrong choice as the follow up to "nathan jones"Up until this period the group were doing well. This was the start of the decline.
I also agree there were too many Four Tops collabs. I adore both groups but the albums were less than memorable and certainly ill timed.
I know it's immaterial now but i still get so angry about how things turned out.
Such a waste.

[BayouMotownMan]

The worst thing as far as the Jean Terrell situation that could have happened is Lynda Laurence! She was a "co-signer" and most of all an opportunist! The more unhappy Jean became, the more chance that Lynda might get to sing lead [[in her mind!). Mary didn't see that right away, but Motown sure did! Some assumed that the thought of the Supremes leaving the company did not arise until Ms. Laurence came along............

Totally inaccurate. Lynda was in the group on a probationary basis and therefore had no voice in group matters. Jean and Lynda became aligned because of their Jehovah Witness conversions. Jean became more and more unhappy with Motown's lack of attention to the group and Mary's seemingly inability to rail against Motown. Jean left three months before Lynda did. Lynda's being "difficult" came after Jean was gone when she met Pedro Ferrer, whom Mary said God told her Pedro was going to lead the Supremes back to the top. He smiled at Lynda but spoke very little English. She went home and told her husband she wanted out of the group too. This made Mary's situation a double-trouble and Mary has never really forgiven Lynda for bailing at a time when Mary needed her badly. Lynda, like Jean, could see the Supremes were finished.

[BayouMotownMan]

And I might add the thought of leaving Motown was introduced to MARY by the Four Tops. They met with Dunhill and liked what they heard. At the last minute Mary reneged, infuriating Jean who then said she wanted out. Lynda Laurence had no role in this.

[Roberta75]

Totally inaccurate. Lynda was in the group on a probationary basis and therefore had no voice in group matters. Jean and Lynda became aligned because of their Jehovah Witness conversions. Jean became more and more unhappy with Motown's lack of attention to the group and Mary's seemingly inability to rail against Motown. Jean left three months before Lynda did. Lynda's being "difficult" came after Jean was gone when she met Pedro Ferrer, whom Mary said God told her Pedro was going to lead the Supremes back to the top. He smiled at Lynda but spoke very little English. She went home and told her husband she wanted out of the group too. This made Mary's situation a double-trouble and Mary has never really forgiven Lynda for bailing at a time when Mary needed her badly. Lynda, like Jean, could see the Supremes were finished.

Thank goodness you are here to provide accurate and unbiased information.

Happy New Year to you.

Fondly.

Roberta

[Bluebrock]

Totally inaccurate. Lynda was in the group on a probationary basis and therefore had no voice in group matters. Jean and Lynda became aligned because of their Jehovah Witness conversions. Jean became more and more unhappy with Motown's lack of attention to the group and Mary's seemingly inability to rail against Motown. Jean left three months before Lynda did. Lynda's being "difficult" came after Jean was gone when she met Pedro Ferrer, whom Mary said God told her Pedro was going to lead the Supremes back to the top. He smiled at Lynda but spoke very little English. She went home and told her husband she wanted out of the group too. This made Mary's situation a double-trouble and Mary has never really forgiven Lynda for bailing at a time when Mary needed her badly. Lynda, like Jean, could see the Supremes were finished.

This is pretty much what i heard too, but i did not wish to start WW3. The truth can sometimes hurt and people need to realise that none of our idols are perfect and we all need to take off our rose coloured glasses and simply accept that there were faults on more than one side.
I will always love each and every member of the Supremes but i am also honest enough to admit they have all said and done things we may not agree with and want to admit to.
Well said BayouMotownMan for saying what i didn't have the guts to say.

[franjoy56]

I agree on several things here. there is NO WAY that "touch" was ever a major hit single. Totally wrong choice as the follow up to "nathan jones"Up until this period the group were doing well. This was the start of the decline.
I also agree there were too many Four Tops collabs. I adore both groups but the albums were less than memorable and certainly ill timed.
I know it's immaterial now but i still get so angry about how things turned out.
Such a waste.

I know thing should have been beter with the 70s supremes, but I would hardly call the 70's Supremes placing 5 top 20 records on the American and UK chars through 72 wih Jean as lead singer hardly a waste. Their performances on tv were just as exciting more movement with the choreography i.e the tom jones show 1970, ed Sullivan 1970, flip Wilson show 1971, while the late 60's supremes stood wih less movement behind their star singer.

[marv2]

I know thing should have been beter with the 70s supremes, but I would hardly call the 70's Supremes placing 5 top 20 records on the American and UK chars through 72 wih Jean as lead singer hardly a waste. Their performances on tv were just as exciting more movement with the choreography i.e the tom jones show 1970, ed Sullivan 1970, flip Wilson show 1971, while the late 60's supremes stood wih less movement behind their star singer.

True the Supremes in the 70s were more exciting to watch. They appear to work harder on stage. I enjoyed Jean on stage as well.

[luke]

I loved Touch. I think it could have been a hit. One week it jumped over 20 points on Billboard. Mary should've sung lead on the whole song. Her voice lush and beautiful on it and sung with much feeling.

[franjoy56]

I loved Touch. I think it could have been a hit. One week it jumped over 20 points on Billboard. Mary should've sung lead on the whole song. Her voice lush and beautiful on it and sung with much feeling.

that is true Mary could have carried that whole song as her solo debut but would have Motown promoted it better.

[REDHOT]

When Jean left The Supremes,it was said,that Lynda was gonna co-lead with Mary,and Cindy was coming back to the group,but things couldn't be worked out,so Lynda left also,and Scherrie Payne join The Supremes,and the ladies kept on moving,yes Jean and Lynda left,but The Supremes were not finish,Mary was right,by staying with Motown,because had they left Motown,Jean was still gonna leave The Supremes anyway,Mary was loyal to The Supremes and Motown,but Jean was not loyal to anyone,Lynda's probation was almost up,again things,couldn't be worked out,i'm happy things worked out the way they did,i love all The Supremes p.s Susaye Greene was Amazing.