Jean Terrell and Motown

[marv2]

Billboard is Sales & Airplay. Cash Box & RW sales only.
Let's look at the charts for 1970.

Billboard/Cash Box/Record World[

Up The Ladder 10 9 7
Reach Out 20 10 9

Everybody 21 14 13
Ain't 1 1 1

Stoned Love 7 5 5
Remember Me 16 10 8

Right On 25
Diana Ross 18

New Ways 68
Everything Is 42

If You Add Four Tops Duet:
River Deep 14 15 12

Mag 7 116

As you see, it's hardly a slam dunk for either on singles. Ross sold more LPs.

In 1971, The Supremes had a hit and two flops, while Ross had 3 flops but all charted higher tha The Supremes' flops. Again Ross' LP sales were much stronger.

The point is that neither act was a threat to the other or making the other look bad, so Mary's assertion that The Supremes had to be reeled in to keep them from humiliating Ross is a bit of a stretch. It was nearly 2 years after Surrender flopped before Ross got another pop record out, while The Supremes worked with three new producers and kept releasing new material. Clearly the rivalry was only in someone's head.

Why are you continually talking about Diana Ross in this thread about Jean Terrell and Motown?

[marybrewster]

anyone know why cindy did not stay with flos???

It's too bad Cindy wanted so long to embark on a solo career. By 1987, I'm sure the general public thought "Cindy who?"

[Bluebrock]

Why are you continually talking about Diana Ross in this thread about Jean Terrell and Motown?

It's not just him Marv. I was guilty of bringing Scherrie and Susaye into the thread a couple of years ago. though i do concede that a certain Diana Ross seems to find her way into so many threads.
I think this particular thread has been one of the best for a long time. Many people sharing their views on a subject that is obviously of considerable interest to many people.
Keep up the good work i say!

[Bluebrock]

It's not just him Marv. I was guilty of bringing Scherrie and Susaye into the thread a couple of years ago. though i do concede that a certain Diana Ross seems to find her way into so many threads.
I think this particular thread has been one of the best for a long time. Many people sharing their views on a subject that is obviously of considerable interest to many people.
Keep up the good work i say!

Ooops. I meant to say a couple of days ago!!!

[midnightman]

Actually I like the way this thread is being discussed and that's because we're actually discussing stuff. Let's keep it going like this haha

But yeah the Supremes still had major hit success up until 1972. 1972 was truly the turning point for Motown as a top musical force. Once many of the original acts left and Motown had departed for Los Angeles, it wasn't the same anymore. I wished the Supremes had left Motown like the Spinners and Gladys Knight & The Pips had but unlike them, they were pretty much Berry Gordy's "creation" so to speak and less independent than the Spinners and GK&TPs were.

[marv2]

People have said that the seventies was the age of "self-containment" when it came to recording artists. You had a flood of singer songwriters as well as talented musicians contained all in a single act. There was less and less need for staff writers, producers, etc, etc. I have read claims that groups like the Supremes were costly because they had to have songs written tailor made for them, choreographers, costumer designers, etc etc. That was true for them and most of the groups that came out of the sixties. That condition was also created by the record companies themselves by not allowing their artists to write for themselves etc. They had full control of the artists pre-1970 and then complained that it was too costly! So in come the seventies with bands that wrote and played their own songs ala The Commodores, EWF, etc and the biggest groups from the sixties became "lounge acts"!

[TheMotownManiac]

I believe it too. Motown was trying to get a hit off of the silly One Love In My Lifetime [[a LOST cause IMHO) which came out as I'm Gonna Let My Heart had stopped moving. That kind of request from promotion men was very common. They thought of a song on a playlist as a "slot" for their label. To my ear, I think High energy should have gone out. I still play that album.

Regarding this mythical "huge promotional push" for High Energy. Scherrie said that she was at a radio station that had been called by a Motown rep and told to stop playing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and play Diana Ross instead. That is what Scherrie Payne said. I believe her.

[TheMotownManiac]

The same reason you were talking about High Energy, The Spinners leaving Motown etc. And I'm not talking about Diana Ross. I am talking about the myth Mary started in her book that The Supremes were way bigger than Ross after the break up causing Motown to panic and it simply isn't true at all. Not even close. So I provided the facts. There was no reason for Motown to sabotage The Supremes and by giving them their top producer, arranger, the best material and constant TV exposure, it's impossible to say they were mistreated.

Also, I know some here don't like Jean, but if you saw her live, she was terrific and much better than on TV. Both line ups with Jean put on excellent shows which changed frequently. Once Mary began to get a few solos, the balance was even better. I think had more people seen them live, it would have helped.

Why are you continually talking about Diana Ross in this thread about Jean Terrell and Motown?

[marybrewster]

What is interesting is, all through this, the Supremes were still everywhere, as far as television was concerned; Flip Wilson Show, Glen Campbell, Andy Williams Show, Smokey Robinson Special, the Bob Hope Special, the Kate Smith Special, Soul Train. Even after Jean left, there was Sonny and Cher, Merv, more Soul Train, Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and Dinah!

So while Motown may not have "promoted" them as far as music was concerned, they sure were pushed on the small screen. I wonder if Ed Sullivan had stayed on the air, if they would have continued the tradition of debuting each of their singles. I imagine that show alone increased sales.

[Roberta75]

The same reason you were talking about High Energy, The Spinners leaving Motown etc. And I'm not talking about Diana Ross. I am talking about the myth Mary started in her book that The Supremes were way bigger than Ross after the break up causing Motown to panic and it simply isn't true at all. Not even close. So I provided the facts. There was no reason for Motown to sabotage The Supremes and by giving them their top producer, arranger, the best material and constant TV exposure, it's impossible to say they were mistreated.

The protected one is calling the shots my dear and is the only one to discuss Diane Ross which he does on a daily basis.

Fondly,

Roberta

[marv2]

What is interesting is, all through this, the Supremes were still everywhere, as far as television was concerned; Flip Wilson Show, Glen Campbell, Andy Williams Show, Smokey Robinson Special, the Bob Hope Special, the Kate Smith Special, Soul Train. Even after Jean left, there was Sonny and Cher, Merv, more Soul Train, Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and Dinah!

So while Motown may not have "promoted" them as far as music was concerned, they sure were pushed on the small screen. I wonder if Ed Sullivan had stayed on the air, if they would have continued the tradition of debuting each of their singles. I imagine that show alone increased sales.

MaryBrewster that is true. The Supremes appeared on television throughout most of the 70s.....BUT that was mostly Mary Wilson's and Pedro Ferrer's doing! The Supremes being the most successful American group notwithstanding, Mary Wilson had a lot of solid relationships and connections in the entertainment industry. Many of the shows they appeared on were hosted by personal friends of Mary! LOL! That included the Sammy Davis & Company Show, Nancy Wilson's show, The Pearl Bailey Show, The Scene [[in Detroit) , The Mike Douglas Show and on and on and on.

[marv2]

The protected one is calling the shots my dear and is the only one to discuss Diane Ross which he does on a daily basis.

Fondly,

Roberta

Look, are you going to continue to play the lone wolf troublemaker or are you going to join in the discussion of the subject at hand?

[motony]

From what I remember as a big fan of Motown since the beginning, Motown did kinda freak when the Supremes first release with Jean "Up the Ladder to The Roof" was a much bigger hit on the Pop Charts & the Soul Charts then Diana Ross' first solo record "Reach Out & Touch".

[Bluebrock]

What is interesting is, all through this, the Supremes were still everywhere, as far as television was concerned; Flip Wilson Show, Glen Campbell, Andy Williams Show, Smokey Robinson Special, the Bob Hope Special, the Kate Smith Special, Soul Train. Even after Jean left, there was Sonny and Cher, Merv, more Soul Train, Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and Dinah!

So while Motown may not have "promoted" them as far as music was concerned, they sure were pushed on the small screen. I wonder if Ed Sullivan had stayed on the air, if they would have continued the tradition of debuting each of their singles. I imagine that show alone increased sales.

Looking back i am amazed at just how often the 70'S Supremes appeared on US tv. Not having lived in America at that time i have watched so many performances via youtube these past 10 years or so. They certainly appeared more often than a certain Ms Ross. With such exposure they had every opportunity to sell their music. Even when the hits dried up they were still out there doing what they did best.
I only ever saw Jean live as part of the FLOS , and by that time she was probably more rusty than she would have been in her prime. I only wish i could have seen the JMC or JML line ups at the time.

[marv2]

From what I remember as a big fan of Motown since the beginning, Motown did kinda freak when the Supremes first release with Jean "Up the Ladder to The Roof" was a much bigger hit on the Pop Charts & the Soul Charts then Diana Ross' first solo record "Reach Out & Touch".

I know they freaked. Radio stations around Detroit and Toledo that rarely ever played the Supremes before, were playing "Up Ladder......." just about every hour at the time.

[rod_rick]

Looking back i am amazed at just how often the 70'S Supremes appeared on US tv. Not having lived in America at that time i have watched so many performances via youtube these past 10 years or so. They certainly appeared more often than a certain Ms Ross. With such exposure they had every opportunity to sell their music. Even when the hits dried up they were still out there doing what they did best.
I only ever saw Jean live as part of the FLOS , and by that time she was probably more rusty than she would have been in her prime. I only wish i could have seen the JMC or JML line ups at the time.

With all the TV exposure you would think that would automatically increase record sales, unless the product wasn't available. I know some of you have worked in the industry so tell me would or could a record company seemingly promote a product but not make it readily available? I just think about the scene from DreamGirls when Curtis paid to have Effie's single of "One Night Only" to fail.

I always thought that Mary said the Supremes got off to a better start than Diana Ross. I never got the impression that she was deliberately stating that the Supremes outsold Diana, just that they took off first and Diana had to play catch-up

[marv2]

With all the TV exposure you would think that would automatically increase record sales, unless the product wasn't available. I know some of you have worked in the industry so tell me would or could a record company seemingly promote a product but not make it readily available? I just think about the scene from DreamGirls when Curtis paid to have Effie's single of "One Night Only" to fail.

I always thought that Mary said the Supremes got off to a better start than Diana Ross. I never got the impression that she was deliberately stating that the Supremes outsold Diana, just that they took off first and Diana had to play catch-up

Rod_rick, great questions and great insight on your part! The product was not always available in usual retail outlets. That practice Curtis used in Dreamgirls was not unheard of. Mary and others were right. The Supremes were seeing more success than Diana Ross in the beginning.

[detmotownguy]

Bad Weather was waaaaaay before Mary, Scherrie & Susaye, like years before. Perhaps you meant Produced & Arranged by Jimmy Webb?

I agree that retailers will order what will sell. Funny, when the 70's Anthology came out on cd I went to Virgin Records in Times Square to get a copy. I had to ask the guy if they had it. He said, "I just put some out!" He had to go into the back and pull the rest of the copies they had. He said they never expected it to sell so well so they didn't order a lot of copies.

Can the 70's Anthology even be purchased anymore other than eBay?

[detmotownguy]

The same reason you were talking about High Energy, The Spinners leaving Motown etc. And I'm not talking about Diana Ross. I am talking about the myth Mary started in her book that The Supremes were way bigger than Ross after the break up causing Motown to panic and it simply isn't true at all. Not even close. So I provided the facts. There was no reason for Motown to sabotage The Supremes and by giving them their top producer, arranger, the best material and constant TV exposure, it's impossible to say they were mistreated.

Also, I know some here don't like Jean, but if you saw her live, she was terrific and much better than on TV. Both line ups with Jean put on excellent shows which changed frequently. Once Mary began to get a few solos, the balance was even better. I think had more people seen them live, it would have helped.

I agree, Jean was great live. I saw her at the Ian Levine show in Detroit. When the initial notes of Ladder left her mouth is was 1970 again. Then the wailing in the background started and sadly all down hill from there. We left and 2 blocks away she was still being drowned out. She is in the top tier of vocalists.....sweet and soulful.

[midnightman]

@rod_rick yes that's exactly what Mary was saying. She didn't say nothing about outselling Diana, just that in terms of their careers in 1970, the Supremes' post-Diana era kicked off better than Diana's solo career.

[TheMotownManiac]

It wasn't that much bigger on the sales charts above. Also, on R&B, Ladder hit #5, reach out #7 - not a huge difference. I'm curious as to how Motown "freaked" as I also was there and noticed nothing as far as reaction except a full page ad in Billboard announcing it had gone top ten. I think Motown might have expected it to do as well or better because A) It's a better record. B) They did in on TV several times including a huge launch on Sullivan. Ross did no TV to plug it until after it slipped. C) Ladder was released as Someday was still on the sales charts taking advantage of that momentum. reach Out came out 2 months later.

Where/ how exactly did you witness Motown freaking?

From what I remember as a big fan of Motown since the beginning, Motown did kinda freak when the Supremes first release with Jean "Up the Ladder to The Roof" was a much bigger hit on the Pop Charts & the Soul Charts then Diana Ross' first solo record "Reach Out & Touch".

[captainjames]

Radio stations were still announcing "Up The Ladder" as a Diana Ross and The Supremes" single. Both acts were trying to establish their own identity. The dust was still flying.

[marv2]

Radio stations were still announcing "Up The Ladder" as a Diana Ross and The Supremes" single. Both acts were trying to establish their own identity. The dust was still flying.

No they weren't. You know why they did not do that? Because nearly everyone in North America knew Diana Ross had left the Supremes and their last hit "together" was "Someday We'll Be Together". Even guys that worked in the factories or drove buses knew that. Radio Stations and their staffs being a part of the industry certainly knew about the transition and who Jean Terrell was. Many even introduced the record as being by "The New Supremes"! So if by chance [[and I don't believe that was likely), you heard a DJ in America announce that "Up The Ladder to The Roof" was by Diana Ross & the Supremes, his ass was fired the next day for drinking on the job! So I do not believe anything you just said and I was around during the time!

[daviddh]

the Supremes were off to a good start....and they continued to have hits . here in Baltimore the radio stations were still playing their top ten or so hits...but were also playing the same for Ross, like most of us we were still fans of both. after Lady Ross was on her way but still struggling...here and there but the Supremes were nearly done until IGLMHDTW which was a tremendous return to form. but Motown closed down Detroit and lost a lot of loyal employees.....the supremes had an offer to go on to Dunlap,.[[.i think it was ) as the 4 tops were there already by this point but MW backed out. I think this caused the friction between Jean and Mary. anyway, had Motown kept Detroit locstion open , had frank Wilson continued to produce them, etc had the supremes had good management. I don't think there were any schemes to kill the Supremes. I think really ,sad to say MW did that in the end.just my opnion

[marv2]

the Supremes were off to a good start....and they continued to have hits . here in Baltimore the radio stations were still playing their top ten or so hits...but were also playing the same for Ross, like most of us we were still fans of both. after Lady Ross was on her way but still struggling...here and there but the Supremes were nearly done until IGLMHDTW which was a tremendous return to form. but Motown closed down Detroit and lost a lot of loyal employees.....the supremes had an offer to go on to Dunlap,.[[.i think it was ) as the 4 tops were there already by this point but MW backed out. I think this caused the friction between Jean and Mary. anyway, had Motown kept Detroit locstion open , had frank Wilson continued to produce them, etc had the supremes had good management. I don't think there were any schemes to kill the Supremes. I think really ,sad to say MW did that in the end.just my opnion

daviddh, you got it! It is true that ABC-Dunhill was interested in signing the Supremes ,but Motown it turned out owned the name. Mary Wilson did not want to start over after working so hard to build the name "Supremes" into a success. That is all that I recall that caused the friction.

[thommg]

Can the 70's Anthology even be purchased anymore other than eBay?

Amazon is selling used copies and also the album as a download.

[midnightman]

I had no idea Motown owned the Dunhill imprint!!!

[marv2]

I had no idea Motown owned the Dunhill imprint!!!

Midnightman, I should clarify. Motown owned the name "The Supremes" then later on, Mary Wilson owned 50% interest in the name. Motown did not own ABC-Dunhill.

[rod_rick]

No they weren't. You know why they did not do that? Because nearly everyone in North America knew Diana Ross had left the Supremes and their last hit "together" was "Someday We'll Be Together". Even guys that worked in the factories or drove buses knew that. Radio Stations and their staffs being a part of the industry certainly knew about the transition and who Jean Terrell was. Many even introduced the record as being by "The New Supremes"! So if by chance [[and I don't believe that was likely), you heard a DJ in America announce that "Up The Ladder to The Roof" was by Diana Ross & the Supremes, his ass was fired the next day for drinking on the job! So I do not believe anything you just said and I was around during the time!

Marv
I would have to disagree with you. Here in Los Angeles the mistake of Dj's stating that the early recordings of Up the Ladder and Stoned Love were announced as DR & S I recall hereing that mistake several times. No it was not all the time but it did happen on occasion. I don't think it happen with Nathan Jones and Floy Joy.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I must confess that I heard Stoned Love decades later on NYC's oldies radio CBS FM and the DJ merntioned it as Diana Ross' group and I actually called the station to correct him.. I also got into a thing with the daytime dj on NY's Top 40 giant 77WABC AM; his name is Dan Ingram and he played Stoned Love as an 'oldie' in , I guess 1974 or 75 and said it was the only hit the group had after Ross left.. well, I wrote him a letter which he talked about on the air, as he said, "I got a letter from someone or someTHING called LaLumia [[I used to sign off with just my last name, like Zorro) and he ranted about 'what kind of perrson keeps track of this sort of thing" blah blah after I reminded him that 77WABC had played and charted "Ladder", "Everybody''s" "River Deep" and "Nathan" and how dare he downplay the group's sucesses ..I was driving home on the Long Island Expressway , I had sent the letter a week before and figured he threw it out or never saw it, even though I had done a feature interview for a magazine with WABC's 'Cousin Brucie" in 1970.. well, he didn't just throw it out! lol.. I flipped out and almost veered off the LIE, thanks for reminding me of something I haven't thought about in decades... Nathan was the last Supremes single that WABC ever played..

[marybrewster]

I can see how a DJ might easily mistake the NAME Supremes for Diana Ross and the Supremes; you'd be a fool though to mistake their voices.

With that said, over the years I've heard "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" credited to Diana Ross and the Supremes; have even heard "Baby Love" as credited as DRATS, when TECHNICALLY, it's just "The Supremes".

Which makes me ask: does it irritate anyone else when a SUPREMES record [[with Diana) is introduced [[or labeled) as a DRATS record?

[marybrewster]

Or what are your thoughts on this?

Attachment 10934

[midnightman]

Midnightman, I should clarify. Motown owned the name "The Supremes" then later on, Mary Wilson owned 50% interest in the name. Motown did not own ABC-Dunhill.

Oh OK lol

I was going like "what?!" Maybe because I was sleepy I read it wrong... I have that habit smh

[midnightman]

I can see how a DJ might easily mistake the NAME Supremes for Diana Ross and the Supremes; you'd be a fool though to mistake their voices.

With that said, over the years I've heard "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" credited to Diana Ross and the Supremes; have even heard "Baby Love" as credited as DRATS, when TECHNICALLY, it's just "The Supremes".

Which makes me ask: does it irritate anyone else when a SUPREMES record [[with Diana) is introduced [[or labeled) as a DRATS record?

When I was listening to oldies radio many years ago, I did hear many stations referring to "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" as a "Diana Ross and the Supremes" song... I don't know how many times I heard it, just that it was frequent. I never recalled the oldies stations playing "Stoned Love" until much later and when they did, they'll say "from the Supremes", never DRATS...

[detmotownguy]

I have heard Stoned Love intoduced as the DRATS. Twice!

[johnjeb]

I must confess that I heard Stoned Love decades later on NYC's oldies radio CBS FM and the DJ merntioned it as Diana Ross' group ..

Around the time of the Take Me Higher album release and subsequent tour a local talk jock, mostly a political format with some entertainment features, was interviewing Diana Ross on her upcoming local appearance...he told her his favorite Supremes song was "Stoned Love"...she responded that it wasn't her record and that he didn't "do his homework"...he replied that it was right there on the list of Supremes songs and it didn't state it wasn't recorded by Diana Ross...ironically, she replied that it was recorded by her replacement "Scherrie Terrell" but she stammered and realized she didn't have the name correct but couldn't seem to recall the name "Jean"!!!...so if she can't get her own history correct how can she expect someone on the periphery to grasp every detail...and how can we expect every DJ to know the details of every group or record they are told to play by their programmers... maybe we can allow them the occasional slip of the tongue or foggy memory recall...

I don't mind the slips by DJs these days...so many years have gone by for it to make that much of a difference...if they at least identify it as The Supremes and/or Diana Ross then at least they're in the right ball park...I get more annoyed by The Vandellas and Marvelettes mix-ups...of course, I don't even know the difference between a Crystal and a Chiffon...I hang my head in shame...

[Bluebrock]

the Supremes were off to a good start....and they continued to have hits . here in Baltimore the radio stations were still playing their top ten or so hits...but were also playing the same for Ross, like most of us we were still fans of both. after Lady Ross was on her way but still struggling...here and there but the Supremes were nearly done until IGLMHDTW which was a tremendous return to form. but Motown closed down Detroit and lost a lot of loyal employees.....the supremes had an offer to go on to Dunlap,.[[.i think it was ) as the 4 tops were there already by this point but MW backed out. I think this caused the friction between Jean and Mary. anyway, had Motown kept Detroit locstion open , had frank Wilson continued to produce them, etc had the supremes had good management. I don't think there were any schemes to kill the Supremes. I think really ,sad to say MW did that in the end.just my opnion

Yes David you are correct.

[Bluebrock]

Yes David you are correct.

Motown wanted the Supremes to continue but as Marv mentioned yesterday they became an expensive commodity . They didn't write their own songs so required talented songwriters and producers to give them good quality material as opposed to the likes of Marvin and Stevie who were self sufficient and making huge amounts of money for the label. As far as Diana was concerned they wanted to steer her more towards the movie/ Broadway area as a black Streisand. She herself told me this. Sure they wanted her to sell records but it was just one of several areas where they could make money out of her, but the Supremes did not have this luxury to fall back on, and with the hostility continuing between Mary and Jean [[and later Lynda) some Motown execs felt they were not getting a return on their investment and had no objections to the girls departing Motown . Jean and Lynda wanted to go but Mary knew she couldn't take the name with them so she opted to stay put which was the final straw for Jean who then quit.
It all but destroyed the group because legal wrangles ensured the group could not enter the studio for two years, and the group never fully recovered, so if anyone was responsible for killing the Supremes i would have to agree with you David that Mary was indeed at least parcially responsible for this.
Prepare for the fall out..............

[midnightman]

I wonder if Mary, Diana and Florence had ever read their original contract. I'd imagine that once Berry signed them, there was an option to sell the name "Supremes" since it was in Motown's ownership [[same thing happened with the Marvelettes). Otis Williams and Melvin Franklin had to renegotiate their contract so they could leave the label as The Temptations since initially Motown owned that name as well. I feel had Mary at least read the contract, she would've advised for Motown to let them keep the name especially since they worked hard enough to make sure that name was well known. I don't think Diana has any ownership of the Supremes' name herself and neither does Florence Ballard's estate.

[Jimi LaLumia]

"Scherrie Terrell"..that is a HOOT.. I never heard that one before! Happy New Year, everybody

[Bluebrock]

Around the time of the Take Me Higher album release and subsequent tour a local talk jock, mostly a political format with some entertainment features, was interviewing Diana Ross on her upcoming local appearance...he told her his favorite Supremes song was "Stoned Love"...she responded that it wasn't her record and that he didn't "do his homework"...he replied that it was right there on the list of Supremes songs and it didn't state it wasn't recorded by Diana Ross...ironically, she replied that it was recorded by her replacement "Scherrie Terrell" but she stammered and realized she didn't have the name correct but couldn't seem to recall the name "Jean"!!!...so if she can't get her own history correct how can she expect someone on the periphery to grasp every detail...and how can we expect every DJ to know the details of every group or record they are told to play by their programmers... maybe we can allow them the occasional slip of the tongue or foggy memory recall...

I don't mind the slips by DJs these days...so many years have gone by for it to make that much of a difference...if they at least identify it as The Supremes and/or Diana Ross then at least they're in the right ball park...I get more annoyed by The Vandellas and Marvelettes mix-ups...of course, I don't even know the difference between a Crystal and a Chiffon...I hang my head in shame...

An occasional slip of the tongue or memory lapse is understandable. In the UK as recently as October Mary stated in an interview on the radio that the Supremes enjoyed 11 US Billboard no.1's when everyone here knows it was 12, but no-one made a big thing of it.

[Bluebrock]

I wonder if Mary, Diana and Florence had ever read their original contract. I'd imagine that once Berry signed them, there was an option to sell the name "Supremes" since it was in Motown's ownership [[same thing happened with the Marvelettes). Otis Williams and Melvin Franklin had to renegotiate their contract so they could leave the label as The Temptations since initially Motown owned that name as well. I feel had Mary at least read the contract, she would've advised for Motown to let them keep the name especially since they worked hard enough to make sure that name was well known. I don't think Diana has any ownership of the Supremes' name herself and neither does Florence Ballard's estate.

Diana relinquished any rights to the name when she left the group and Flo's estate never had any ownership. It was soley Mary and Motown which was quite correct in my opinion.

[midnightman]

Thanks. Like I said, I wish Mary had fought for control of the name...

[thommg]

I have heard Stoned Love introduced as the DRATS. Twice!

Hah! This happened at the last Supremes convention held at the Motown Cafe in New York City. The DJ there announced it as Diana Ross & The Supremes!

[Bluebrock]

Thanks. Like I said, I wish Mary had fought for control of the name...

I think she did try but was fighting a losing battle. I think Motown should have done the decent thing and signed over the name to her, but she had ruffled some feathers with the execs and they thought it easier to offer her a solo contract, release a stinker of an album, give it no promotion and then quietly drop her. Job done on their part.

[Jimi LaLumia]

as long as Ross was signed to Motown, Gordy wasn't letting go of that name,as it was linked to her even though she had been out for a decade, and he wasn't going to allow control of it elsewhere.. when she split for RCA in 1980, well, that's another story..

[marv2]

I must confess that I heard Stoned Love decades later on NYC's oldies radio CBS FM and the DJ merntioned it as Diana Ross' group and I actually called the station to correct him.. I also got into a thing with the daytime dj on NY's Top 40 giant 77WABC AM; his name is Dan Ingram and he played Stoned Love as an 'oldie' in , I guess 1974 or 75 and said it was the only hit the group had after Ross left.. well, I wrote him a letter which he talked about on the air, as he said, "I got a letter from someone or someTHING called LaLumia [[I used to sign off with just my last name, like Zorro) and he ranted about 'what kind of perrson keeps track of this sort of thing" blah blah after I reminded him that 77WABC had played and charted "Ladder", "Everybody''s" "River Deep" and "Nathan" and how dare he downplay the group's sucesses ..I was driving home on the Long Island Expressway , I had sent the letter a week before and figured he threw it out or never saw it, even though I had done a feature interview for a magazine with WABC's 'Cousin Brucie" in 1970.. well, he didn't just throw it out! lol.. I flipped out and almost veered off the LIE, thanks for reminding me of something I haven't thought about in decades... Nathan was the last Supremes single that WABC ever played..

Jimi, how many hours of your life would say has been spent on the the LIE? About 9,000 for me LOL!

[marv2]

I can see how a DJ might easily mistake the NAME Supremes for Diana Ross and the Supremes; you'd be a fool though to mistake their voices.

With that said, over the years I've heard "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" credited to Diana Ross and the Supremes; have even heard "Baby Love" as credited as DRATS, when TECHNICALLY, it's just "The Supremes".

Which makes me ask: does it irritate anyone else when a SUPREMES record [[with Diana) is introduced [[or labeled) as a DRATS record?

It is quite irritating especially knowing their story and the heartbreak Florence Ballard went through over the name change.

[marv2]

Or what are your thoughts on this?

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MaryB the attachment did not show up.

[marv2]

Around the time of the Take Me Higher album release and subsequent tour a local talk jock, mostly a political format with some entertainment features, was interviewing Diana Ross on her upcoming local appearance...he told her his favorite Supremes song was "Stoned Love"...she responded that it wasn't her record and that he didn't "do his homework"...he replied that it was right there on the list of Supremes songs and it didn't state it wasn't recorded by Diana Ross...ironically, she replied that it was recorded by her replacement "Scherrie Terrell" but she stammered and realized she didn't have the name correct but couldn't seem to recall the name "Jean"!!!...so if she can't get her own history correct how can she expect someone on the periphery to grasp every detail...and how can we expect every DJ to know the details of every group or record they are told to play by their programmers... maybe we can allow them the occasional slip of the tongue or foggy memory recall...

I don't mind the slips by DJs these days...so many years have gone by for it to make that much of a difference...if they at least identify it as The Supremes and/or Diana Ross then at least they're in the right ball park...I get more annoyed by The Vandellas and Marvelettes mix-ups...of course, I don't even know the difference between a Crystal and a Chiffon...I hang my head in shame...

You made a very distinct, key point when you said so many years went by. Ok,but what I was referring to earlier was at the time [[February 1970) of "Up the Ladder to the Roof" being released, just about everyone in North America knew or had heard that the Supremes had split up! They were the biggest American group at the time and we had far less media outlets than we do today so we all got pretty much the same news back then. We got earlier in Detroit in regards to anything Motown. Decades later when you have DJ's that may not have even been born mistakes can be made and there is no big deal. If a DJ today referred to Adele as "Odell" or something else, people would call him on it as an example.