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    Jean Terrell and Motown

    I just watched Jean and Smokey sing Someday...and it made me wonder considering Jean's amazing talent if they made any attempt to keep her from leaving. Was she too "headstrong" for Motown? I assume her contract was up in 1973.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I just watched Jean and Smokey sing Someday...and it made me wonder considering Jean's amazing talent if they made any attempt to keep her from leaving. Was she too "headstrong" for Motown? I assume her contract was up in 1973.
    I don't think they made any real attempt and they were crazy to let her go! Jean was one of the best female vocalists to ever record for Motown. Stories over the years have tried to paint her as headstrong, uncooperative etc,etc. but the truth is Motown frustrated her as they did so many others.

    Jean and Smokey singing Someday backed by Mary and Cindy is music made in Heaven!

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    I have heard the stories about Jean being difficult. She certainly gave Mary some sleepless nights but a reliable source told me that Jean was greatly frustrated at always living in Diana's shadow and certain promises made to her were not fulfilled. I don't wish to go into it too deeply but I will say that few tears were shed when Jean quit the group. It is a great pity because Jean was immensely talented and she may have fared better as a solo artist.Her work with the Supremes remains magnificent and I have nothing but total respect for this ladies talent.

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    "Jean and Smokey singing Someday backed by Mary and Cindy is music made in Heaven!"

    Where can this be heard? Thanks.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mowest View Post
    "Jean and Smokey singing Someday backed by Mary and Cindy is music made in Heaven!"

    Where can this be heard? Thanks.

    This is the best video available online:


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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    This is the best video available online:

    Thanks, marv2, for posting this. Don't know how I missed it the first time around! Great performances by all.

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    Makes me wish Mary and Cindy had been on the original recording! Mary wearing the only green.. Did Diana wear it before ? Was this purposely to single Mary out? Or size issue? Where was other Miracle??
    Last edited by luke; 12-23-2015 at 01:59 PM.

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    A lot of people have spoken about missing it when it was broadcast .

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    A lot of people have spoken about missing it when it was broadcast .
    I was lucky to see it when it aired in December 1970. Motown gave us a lot for Christmas that year! I always wondered why they never released a soundtrack album for this great show.

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    I think Jean had 2 more years on her contract with Motown. not sure exactly but when Scherrie joined she couldn't record with them because of a contract issue, not positive but I think she was still under contract with another label and they had to wait it out. as a result no supremes album 1973 or 74. a hits album with Jean called Gold was planned but cancelled after Bad Weather failed. note that BG wanted to manage the supremes twice but MW told him NO but then complained Motown wasn't doing anything for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I think Jean had 2 more years on her contract with Motown. not sure exactly but when Scherrie joined she couldn't record with them because of a contract issue, not positive but I think she was still under contract with another label and they had to wait it out. as a result no supremes album 1973 or 74. a hits album with Jean called Gold was planned but cancelled after Bad Weather failed. note that BG wanted to manage the supremes twice but MW told him NO but then complained Motown wasn't doing anything for them.
    Motown did plenty for them IMO. the 70s Supremes was all over TV as YouTube has now proved. Anyways its 45 years later and all water under the bridge now.

    Roberta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Motown did plenty for them IMO. the 70s Supremes was all over TV as YouTube has now proved. Anyways its 45 years later and all water under the bridge now.

    Roberta
    In YOUR opinion! According to the ladies themselves.......they did not!

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    Never heard about Gordy wanting to manage the Suoremes then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Never heard about Gordy wanting to manage the Suoremes then.
    He mentioned it once after he saw movement on "Let My Heart Do the Walking". What was Mary going to do? Fire her husband? Get outta dodge! LOL!!!

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    according to all accounts, when the boss did not have his wish granted [[Syretta was his wish for whatever reason) he said that he 'washed his hands of the group', nothing sneaky or under handed, he made the statement and he apparently lived up to it.. so the Gordy touch and/or occasional 'intervention' was taken off the table.. they still bought ads in the trades, booked them onto plenty of tv shows [[they were on Soul Train a lot, and the Ed Sullivan Show going off the air certainly hurt them as well as early 70's solo Ross , Sullivan had been the merchandise show room through the 60's..)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    according to all accounts, when the boss did not have his wish granted [[Syretta was his wish for whatever reason) he said that he 'washed his hands of the group', nothing sneaky or under handed, he made the statement and he apparently lived up to it.. so the Gordy touch and/or occasional 'intervention' was taken off the table.. they still bought ads in the trades, booked them onto plenty of tv shows [[they were on Soul Train a lot, and the Ed Sullivan Show going off the air certainly hurt them as well as early 70's solo Ross , Sullivan had been the merchandise show room through the 60's..)
    With all that, they still were the most successful female group of the 70s!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    With all that, they still were the most successful female group of the 70s!
    They certainly were Marv. At least in the States but the competition wasn't as strong in the 70's for female groups as it was in the 80's and 90's. The Three Degrees stole the Supremes thunder in the UK but for whatever reason didn't last in the USA. Best regards.

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    i still think they did well in the 70s. I think the loss of Frank Wilson as producer hurt them, who decided this??? Jean did a great job with them and Lynda was a good addition. Motown closing Detroit location was also a blow not only to the Supremes but to everyone. the only thing BG cared about was making movies. one by one they all left year after year until only the big three were left, then DR left.

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    I thought the 70s Supremes did quite well in UK. Didn't Soned Love go to 3 and Nathan Jones top 10?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I thought the 70s Supremes did quite well in UK. Didn't Soned Love go to 3 and Nathan Jones top 10?
    Yes they did do well in the UK for a while, Stoned Love went top 3. Nathan Jones top 5. Up the ladder no.6, whilst Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine both went top 10, but the Three Degrees did even better than that, but its all immaterial now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes they did do well in the UK for a while, Stoned Love went top 3. Nathan Jones top 5. Up the ladder no.6, whilst Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine both went top 10, but the Three Degrees did even better than that, but its all immaterial now.
    Exactly what songs by the Three Degrees charted higher in the U.K. than those mentioned by the Supremes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Exactly what songs by the Three Degrees charted higher in the U.K. than those mentioned by the Supremes?
    The Three Degrees had 10 top 40 UK hits as well as several other minor hits. The biggest being "when will i see you again" which was a UK no.1. The 2nd biggest being "woman in love" [[not the Streisand song) which reached no.3 tying with the 70's Supremes biggest UK hit "stoned love" which also hit no.3. Merry Christmas!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    The Three Degrees had 10 top 40 UK hits as well as several other minor hits. The biggest being "when will i see you again" which was a UK no.1. The 2nd biggest being "woman in love" [[not the Streisand song) which reached no.3 tying with the 70's Supremes biggest UK hit "stoned love" which also hit no.3. Merry Christmas!!
    They came no where close to the Supremes accomplishments here in the U.S. I believe they had only 1 number one record here and most have never heard of the group.

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    apparently "Let My Heart Do The Walking" did nothing over there on the main singles chart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    apparently "Let My Heart Do The Walking" did nothing over there on the main singles chart
    No it didn't but i think the main reason was because Mary had fallen out with the BBC the year before whilst promoting "he's my man". As a result the BBC did not put the follow up single "early morning love" on the radio 1 playlist. They had heavily played "he's my man". Indeed Tony Blackburn had it as his record of the week, but after the disagreement the BBC stopped supporting the Supremes and all subsequent singles were not playlisted and they were not invited back on to "top of the pops" or other variety shows to promote their singles.

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    Me and Marv disagree on this,and we're still cool,Jean Terrell was a pain in the you know what,she didn't get alone with anyone,sure she was a great talent,with a great voice,but a very moody person,no one was gonna put up with Jean's different moods,not Berry Gordy,the promoters,and not Mary Wilson and the other Supremes,Jean could have been great,after she left The Supremes,but she didn't want it,she was done with Show Business,wanted nothing to do with it,i'v said this many times,what a great body of work,Jean had with The Supremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REDHOT View Post
    Me and Marv disagree on this,and we're still cool,Jean Terrell was a pain in the you know what,she didn't get alone with anyone,sure she was a great talent,with a great voice,but a very moody person,no one was gonna put up with Jean's different moods,not Berry Gordy,the promoters,and not Mary Wilson and the other Supremes,Jean could have been great,after she left The Supremes,but she didn't want it,she was done with Show Business,wanted nothing to do with it,i'v said this many times,what a great body of work,Jean had with The Supremes.
    Jean was indeed difficult, but she was not on her own. It was not all entirely her fault but i do not wish to start WW3 by dredging up stories that are over 40 years old. She could, and should have behaved in a more professional manner , but she was let down badly by certain people and as such basically lost the will to continue. Sad but true.

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    Thanks Marv for Miracle info

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Thanks Marv for Miracle info
    You're welcome Luke. Merry Christmas!

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    Thx. Same to you Marv!

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    Three Degrees had more charted singles in the UK than the 70's Supremes, but in terms of BIG hits, Top 20 hits, both groups had 7 each, so in that regard, Top 20 chart placings, it's a tie..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    Three Degrees had more charted singles in the UK than the 70's Supremes, but in terms of BIG hits, Top 20 hits, both groups had 7 each, so in that regard, Top 20 chart placings, it's a tie..
    Fair point, but i think The Three Degrees enjoyed 1 x no.1 and 1 x no.2 as well as more smaller hits so technically i believe i am correct in my original summing up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    Three Degrees had more charted singles in the UK than the 70's Supremes, but in terms of BIG hits, Top 20 hits, both groups had 7 each, so in that regard, Top 20 chart placings, it's a tie..
    Jimi - just double checked. The Supremes had 6 top 20 UK hits whilst The Three Degrees had 7, but i was incorrect when i said claimed they reached no,2 with Woman in love. It only reached no.3, but "when will i see you again" was of course a UK no.1.

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    i suppose Jean and Flo had something in common. they both felt let down by Motown . one day the truth will come out but for now I will just enjoy the music they made. just wish we had more supremes 70s stuff with Jean. maybe the 70's Lost and Found will tidy up whats left. I know they did some more work with Frank Wilson in early 73[[Love Train) and a few other tracks. a left over from Floy Joy is in the vaults as well plus all the other out takes.keep our fingers crossed for this

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    i suppose Jean and Flo had something in common. they both felt let down by Motown . one day the truth will come out but for now I will just enjoy the music they made. just wish we had more supremes 70s stuff with Jean. maybe the 70's Lost and Found will tidy up whats left. I know they did some more work with Frank Wilson in early 73[[Love Train) and a few other tracks. a left over from Floy Joy is in the vaults as well plus all the other out takes.keep our fingers crossed for this
    I have heard there is enough material to make a 2cd lost and found. It's very frustrating knowing there is so much unheard material gathering dust in the vaults, Universal don't seem to think there is a market for these songs. How wrong they are on so many counts.

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    ok.. but from a technical point, the Supremes name, minus Jean, had a 7th UK Top 10 in the 1970's, when the original "Baby Love" was re issued as a single,to promote a "Greatest Hits" album, and the re issued single peaked at #12 in August of 1974..Merry Christmas!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    ok.. but from a technical point, the Supremes name, minus Jean, had a 7th UK Top 10 in the 1970's, when the original "Baby Love" was re issued as a single,to promote a "Greatest Hits" album, and the re issued single peaked at #12 in August of 1974..Merry Christmas!!
    Good point Jimi but the 1976 reissue of "baby love" was billed as Diana Ross and the Supremes!! Merry Christmas to you too my friend!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    ok.. but from a technical point, the Supremes name, minus Jean, had a 7th UK Top 10 in the 1970's, when the original "Baby Love" was re issued as a single,to promote a "Greatest Hits" album, and the re issued single peaked at #12 in August of 1974..Merry Christmas!!
    What was always perplexing, save for "Right On" peaking at #25 [[or was it #20), The Supremes '70s had difficulty selling albums. For me personally, at least 5 of their albums were quite good. Despite many fans calling " written and produced by Jim Webb", Jean Terrell and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, it remains a personal favorite. So as far as quality material, I think Motown gave them great songs. Sometimes you have consider that the public just wasn't interested.
    Save for The Supremes [[original)/Diana Ross & The Supremes, the other Motown female groups just couldn't sell albums...despite the quality. And, of course, you make a lot more money from album sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokiluis View Post
    What was always perplexing, save for "Right On" peaking at #25 [[or was it #20), The Supremes '70s had difficulty selling albums. For me personally, at least 5 of their albums were quite good. Despite many fans calling " written and produced by Jim Webb", Jean Terrell and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, it remains a personal favorite. So as far as quality material, I think Motown gave them great songs. Sometimes you have consider that the public just wasn't interested.
    Save for The Supremes [[original)/Diana Ross & The Supremes, the other Motown female groups just couldn't sell albums...despite the quality. And, of course, you make a lot more money from album sales.
    Nah that's bullshit, stop it! It had nothing to do with the public not being interested and everything to do with the availability of product! I remember after each debut of a Supremes new record in the 60s, you could find it in all the stores the next day or that same week. The Supremes performed "Bad Weather" for example on television several times and it could not be found in stores in Ohio and Michigan that next day, that next week or the next month! I finally found it in 1975 , 2 whole years after it's release. Motown was no longer supporting the Supremes at that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Nah that's bullshit, stop it! It had nothing to do with the public not being interested and everything to do with the availability of product! I remember after each debut of a Supremes new record in the 60s, you could find it in all the stores the next day or that same week. The Supremes performed "Bad Weather" for example on television several times and it could not be found in stores in Ohio and Michigan that next day, that next week or the next month! I finally found it in 1975 , 2 whole years after it's release. Motown was no longer supporting the Supremes at that time.
    I believe you, but I think you are blaming Motown for not making Bad Weather available. It was available and in distribution throughout the country with indie distributors. Alpha Distributors in NYC had it and it was up to the store buyers to have enough product in their store. Some of these store buyers are conservative and if an artists last record did not sell and had to be returned, then the buyer bought very few of the next release.

    Locally, in my area, Bad Weather was sold to dee-jays as a disco record and they bought two at a time to extend them.

    As far as getting the song played on radio, I honestly have to say that I don't remember hearing it that much. But the Supremes fan club headed by Carl [[who later transformed it into Mary's fan club) had many of the fans calling in requests for the song.

    I can honestly say that I never had any trouble getting any of the Supremes albums or singles.

    I also cant understand why a for profit company such as Motown, would spend a huge amount of money getting a song written, produced and recorded and then not try to get that expense recouped by promoting the record in every possible way. It just not sound very wise to deliberately try to bury the record.

    If Berry truly hated the group or no longer had a use for them, he could have just released the group and use the money he saved recorded and producing them to promote a group or artist that he liked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    I believe you, but I think you are blaming Motown for not making Bad Weather available. It was available and in distribution throughout the country with indie distributors. Alpha Distributors in NYC had it and it was up to the store buyers to have enough product in their store. Some of these store buyers are conservative and if an artists last record did not sell and had to be returned, then the buyer bought very few of the next release.

    Locally, in my area, Bad Weather was sold to dee-jays as a disco record and they bought two at a time to extend them.

    As far as getting the song played on radio, I honestly have to say that I don't remember hearing it that much. But the Supremes fan club headed by Carl [[who later transformed it into Mary's fan club) had many of the fans calling in requests for the song.

    I can honestly say that I never had any trouble getting any of the Supremes albums or singles.

    I also cant understand why a for profit company such as Motown, would spend a huge amount of money getting a song written, produced and recorded and then not try to get that expense recouped by promoting the record in every possible way. It just not sound very wise to deliberately try to bury the record.

    If Berry truly hated the group or no longer had a use for them, he could have just released the group and use the money he saved recorded and producing them to promote a group or artist that he liked.
    It was not played on the radio and for clarification, Carl was not the fan club president at that time in 1973. It was Robert [[can't remember his last name at the moment) and it was ran out of New York.

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    Records are in stores if the individual buyer buys them. Bad Weather came months after several failures in a row and it took months until Bad Weather even charted - for one week. Stores don't want to order singles they would get stuck with, so they would wait until they had demand. There was always demand for Supremes singles from WDOLG until the Bad Weather era. Our local store only ordered The Billboard Top 50 unless it was a hot group like DR&TS, The Beatles, J5, Carpenters. After getting stuck with copies of Automatically Sunshine, YWSSL, IGIMTM, so they would wait until Bad Weather became a hit and then order it. That's fairly standard for record stores. They were allowed to return a small percentage on singles that later became 3/$1.00 cut-outs at KMart or Newberry's.
    It was the same for Sorry Doesn't Always Make it Right. We had to drive to St Louis to buy it and the only store that had it was in the hood.
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Nah that's bullshit, stop it! It had nothing to do with the public not being interested and everything to do with the availability of product! I remember after each debut of a Supremes new record in the 60s, you could find it in all the stores the next day or that same week. The Supremes performed "Bad Weather" for example on television several times and it could not be found in stores in Ohio and Michigan that next day, that next week or the next month! I finally found it in 1975 , 2 whole years after it's release. Motown was no longer supporting the Supremes at that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokiluis View Post
    What was always perplexing, save for "Right On" peaking at #25 [[or was it #20), The Supremes '70s had difficulty selling albums. For me personally, at least 5 of their albums were quite good. Despite many fans calling " written and produced by Jim Webb", Jean Terrell and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, it remains a personal favorite. So as far as quality material, I think Motown gave them great songs. Sometimes you have consider that the public just wasn't interested.
    Save for The Supremes [[original)/Diana Ross & The Supremes, the other Motown female groups just couldn't sell albums...despite the quality. And, of course, you make a lot more money from album sales.
    I agree the quality was there for the first 3 Jean led albums. If Motown had wanted to kill the Supremes at that point they wouldn't have given them such strong material. The quality of songs did plummet thereafter in my opinion. I know some of you disagree with me on that and of course that is your right, but after "touch" it was all downhill in my opinion. Jean was not happy with the material she was given to sing at this point and with her being at loggerheads with Mary she decided to cut her losses and quit. It is true to say the group were still visible on US TV.
    Marv claims he was unable to purchase "bad weather". I am not in a position to disagree with on that because i wasn't there, but if true it all points to Motown failing to meet supply with demand.
    They did make a huge promotion push with "high energy" a few years later but that was only partially successful . It would appear too little too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I agree the quality was there for the first 3 Jean led albums. If Motown had wanted to kill the Supremes at that point they wouldn't have given them such strong material. The quality of songs did plummet thereafter in my opinion. I know some of you disagree with me on that and of course that is your right, but after "touch" it was all downhill in my opinion. Jean was not happy with the material she was given to sing at this point and with her being at loggerheads with Mary she decided to cut her losses and quit. It is true to say the group were still visible on US TV.
    Marv claims he was unable to purchase "bad weather". I am not in a position to disagree with on that because i wasn't there, but if true it all points to Motown failing to meet supply with demand.
    They did make a huge promotion push with "high energy" a few years later but that was only partially successful . It would appear too little too late.
    You don't have to agree or disagree because what I said and the inability to find the single "Bad Weather" is a fact! There was someone in NYC at the time that said they found it in a hardware store. That NEVER was the case with Supremes releases in the 60s. The material they recorded in the 70s was superb and in many cases better than what they were doing in the 60s.
    !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I agree the quality was there for the first 3 Jean led albums. If Motown had wanted to kill the Supremes at that point they wouldn't have given them such strong material. The quality of songs did plummet thereafter in my opinion. I know some of you disagree with me on that and of course that is your right, but after "touch" it was all downhill in my opinion. Jean was not happy with the material she was given to sing at this point and with her being at loggerheads with Mary she decided to cut her losses and quit. It is true to say the group were still visible on US TV.
    Marv claims he was unable to purchase "bad weather". I am not in a position to disagree with on that because i wasn't there, but if true it all points to Motown failing to meet supply with demand.
    They did make a huge promotion push with "high energy" a few years later but that was only partially successful . It would appear too little too late.

    Regarding this mythical "huge promotional push" for High Energy. Scherrie said that she was at a radio station that had been called by a Motown rep and told to stop playing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and play Diana Ross instead. That is what Scherrie Payne said. I believe her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Regarding this mythical "huge promotional push" for High Energy. Scherrie said that she was at a radio station that had been called by a Motown rep and told to stop playing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and play Diana Ross instead. That is what Scherrie Payne said. I believe her.
    I'm not looking to fall out with you but it is a fact that Motown UK gave High Energy" lots of advertising space in the music publications. It would be very strange to spend such vasts amounts of money and then deliberately try to kill the product. Where is the financial sense in that?
    My colleague at Motown UK visited the US office several times a year and he told me that Motown spent bucketloads of money on promoting High Inergy in the US. This is of course going slightly off topic. This is a Jean Terrell thread, but i was told that Motown execs were thoroughly fed up with Jean and Mary's constant fueding which possibly explains why Motown may have given up on them? Once Jean had gone he said they were happy to get behind the group again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Regarding this mythical "huge promotional push" for High Energy. Scherrie said that she was at a radio station that had been called by a Motown rep and told to stop playing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and play Diana Ross instead. That is what Scherrie Payne said. I believe her.
    I thought there was a recent vid clip here where Scherrie came right out and said the Sups were not being promoted. It might have been in the last 6 months. I cannot believe she would lie about that. And when there were fans telling the Sups that they cannot find the product, one has to wonder.

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    I believe it too. Motown was trying to get a hit off of the silly One Love In My Lifetime [[a LOST cause IMHO) which came out as I'm Gonna Let My Heart had stopped moving. That kind of request from promotion men was very common. They thought of a song on a playlist as a "slot" for their label. To my ear, I think High energy should have gone out. I still play that album.

    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Regarding this mythical "huge promotional push" for High Energy. Scherrie said that she was at a radio station that had been called by a Motown rep and told to stop playing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and play Diana Ross instead. That is what Scherrie Payne said. I believe her.

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    If you want to get an idea of the games Motown were playing with it's artists in the 70s, take some time and listen to this interview with Bubba Knight. He was there and he knows! It is a long one so, when have time to listen and learn, please do so and stop making these comments that the public were just not interested anymore.......


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